mockingj-ae

[mockingj-ae]

There are two reasons why some pansexuals have such a hard time letting go of their label:

1. Emotional reasons Most pansexuals chose their label because it seemed like the right choice based on the information available to them at the time. Obviously that information was skewed and they’re consequently perpetuating biphobia but they’re not doing it on purpose - they’re genuinely trying to do the right thing. Learning that they’ve aligned themselves with an incredibly homophobic, biphobic and transphobic label can be tough to process emotionally and it’s much easier to convince themselves that pansexuality is harmless than it is to process the guilt and deal with admitting they were wrong.

2. Dunning–Kruger effect Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias which describes the phenomenon of people who have very little knowledge or low skills in a field overestimating their abilities. To put it simply, the less you know about something, the more confident you are about it because you don’t even realise how much you don’t know, whereas an expert would be a lot more humble because they are aware of just how much in their field they still don’t understand. 

This means that you could read dozens of books on bisexuality, you could be a bisexual activist with decades of experience, you could be an older bisexual from pre-pansexual times, you could be an expert academic, you could be presenting someone with research and historical sources of how bisexuality has always meant attraction regardless of gender, you could be a lot more knowledgeable about both bisexuality and pansexuality than them but if all they know about the topic came from 101 internet content and they read on social media that “bi means gender is a factor in your attraction and pan means it’s not��� then they will simply not listen to you. Ironically, their ignorance makes them feel like they’re the expert even thought they clearly know less then you.

HOW DO WE GET AROUND THIS? Maybe we can’t, not on an individual level. If someone is plugging their ears and deciding to remain ignorant, they’re not worth your time. But here’s a few things I have found helpful:

1. Create more accurate resources about bisexuality Having little information might falsely make people feel like experts but if the little information they come across first is accurate and not biphobic, then we have less of a problem on our hands. Spread information about bisexuality, about bi history and activism, read and spread bisexual books and research, flood the channels where clueless questioning people looking for information are hanging out. You don’t even have to mention or criticise pansexuality, just make sure good bisexual resources are abundant and accessible.

2. Celebrate bisexuality The main reason people are flocking to pansexuality in the first place is because of how hard it is to be bisexual. There is so much biphobia out there it takes a lot to counter it and help people accept that being bisexual is normal and wonderful. The more loud and proud bisexuals there are, the more we celebrate the rich bisexual history, the inherently political, radical and inclusive nature of bisexuality, the more bisexual activism we do and bisexual groups we create, the more bisexual heroes and achievements we celebrate, the easier it will be for bisexuals to feel like they don’t have to hide their sexual orientation. And it doesn’t have to take much: in my experience often just coming out is a huge step and will make bisexuals around you feel like they can come out too and find community and solidarity with you. 

3. Take it offline I don’t debate pansexuals online because I have better things to do and I don’t think it’s ever effective (except maybe for educating other people reading what you have to say). However, every pansexual I’ve talked to offline has dropped after talking to me and the conversation has always remained civil. I know that’s not the case for everyone but in my experience, it’s easer to have a reasonable discussion offline and people never turn as nasty as they do on anonymous online accounts (it’s also easier to admit you’ve been wrong when you don’t have an audience of your followers watch you lose a debate).

In addition, I think strong offline bisexual communities are the best cure for internalised biphobia. There is nothing as healing a being in a room full of bisexuals and I have seen people adopt the label just from being around other bisexuals and realising how amazing, smart, political and fun we are. 

[mockingj-ae]

i wish pan apologists used arguments like. ever

they just keep repeating “pansexuality is not bad, pansexuality is not biphobic, pansexuality is not transphobic, pansexuality is valid” over and over again and you keep throwing facts and sources and arguments at them and they just say the same fucking thing again with zero actual arguments

i have never heard a single argument for pansexuality that wasn’t some variation of “everyone is valid! just let people do whatever they want!”

[mockingj-ae]

Ace Discourse Masterpost

Here is a master list of arguments in the ace discourse over the years against the notion that cishet ace/aro people are members of the LGBT community, because they are cis and straight. Furthermore why calling asexuality an oppression (while not denying the existence of prejudice against asexual people and the need for their own community) leads to very homophobic and transphobic understanding of what it means to be LGBT. I have been involved in “the discourse” for over five years, making arguments of my own and promoting others on this blog. But now it is time for me to move on and leave this masterpost as the culmination of this blog’s purpose.

Some of these posts are mine but for the most part this is the product of a lot of other people’s work: their words, their thoughts, their experiences and their research all compiled into one place to help people understand the ace discourse and to track its record of ahistory and blatant homophobia and transphobia. I have made sure to use links on my blog so they don’t get lost in any name changes or deletion, but I do not take any credit for their posts and content. So thank you to everyone who contributed to the discourse, and ultimately this post. I hope this will be great resource for discoursers young and old and help people form their own arguments and to help young LGBT people from falling into the trap of denying their sexuality because of the homophobic and transphobic rhetoric of the Ace Community. 

So without further ado, The Ace Discourse Masterpost:

Why Asexuality is Not Oppressed

A comparison of asexuality to racism and why it does not meet the definition of systemic oppression

A Debunking of the study often cited as proof of Asexual Oppression and Acephobia 

Another response to the oft cited study.

And denying oppression is not proof it exists

Oppression is systematic, not individual

Asexuality does not need to be oppressed to still be valid

Gatekeeping 

The LGBT community was created to combat transphobia and homophobia

Gatekeeping doesn’t mean what you think it does

“The LGBT Community is meant to be inclusive!!”

Safe Spaces are meant to be exclusive

And thus excluding cishet aces protects LGBT people

On Oppression Olympics

If not LGBT, where do asexual people belong?

On the assumption that some LGBT people live happy homophobia free lives and should be called “not queer enough” too.

The emergence of REG, “ Reactionary Exclusionist Gatekeepers”

REG is just another version of using “it’s the same as ___” to gain legitimacy

The Queer Identity

The history of “queer” as a slur and why its not an umbrella term

Insisting “queer” is an umbrella term for abnormal/deviant people is classic homophobia

Queer is also often used to intentionally erase an individuals distinct identity and relation to oppression

Queer can never fully be reclaimed

On queer theory and the true history of the term

A is for Asexual

How AVEN started the A for Asexual, fully aware that it was also being used for allies.  (Arguing the origin of A as Ally is pointless now, this post explains it all from the horse’s mouth)

Why trying to use MOGAI instead does not work.

Ableism and The DSM

A thorough argument on why hypoactive sexual desire disorder (HSDD) in the DSM is not proof of oppression against asexuals, and is in fact a homophobic and ableist claim. 

More on HSDD and the absurdity of claiming it targets asexual people

More on the history of the slur homosexuality and how it was used to medically torture gay people.

Autistic people are often assumed to be asexual (And are not meant to be ace representation)

A Complete Guide to How the Ace Community has lied about the Pathologization of Asexuality and Fearmongered Young Aces into thinking Anti-Ace Conversion Therapy is a Thing

Split Attraction Model (Asexuality is not Straight!)

Why the split attraction model is bad and people hate it.

It makes gross assumptions about non-asexual people who do not use the model, and conflates sexual attraction with sexual orientation

Sectioning personal thoughts on sex and using mogai labels are ultimately useless

The -sexual prefix has always meant gender not sex

Attraction cannot be so evenly split into Romantic or Sexual

“You must be cisgender, heteroromantic, and heterosexual to be Straight!”

Also “Homoromantic” is a terrible word

The History of the word Straight

Allosexual & Allosexual Privilege

Why Allosexual is a terrible term

The word makes sweeping assumptions about someone’s private sexual feelings for vast number of people. (tl;dr version)

The person who coined the term now opposes it’s use.

There is no such thing as sexual privilege. 

SGA people have a relationship to sex based on our oppression that straight asexual people cannot understand or experience

The failure of liberal analysis of power structures 

Refuting the idea that LGBT people don’t face homophobia or transphobia even in more liberal places.

A cringe-worthy comic that assumes “allosexual” people easily know their sexual orientation because sex 

Can you all just stop with this shit, really?

Monosexism, allosexuality’s evil cousin, has many of the same issues.

TL;DR Another brief argument against Allosexual

Corrective Rape

The term “corrective rape” has been appropriated from a very specific homophobic hate crime in South Africa to mean any kind of rape that punishes the victim.

The UN updated it’s terminology guidelines to refer to it as homophobic rape to “note the deep-seated homophobia that motivates the hate crime”

Often used as a gotcha argument than concern for rape victims.

Supporting Rape Culture and Pedophilia

Discourse about ace people having sex is often thinly veiled rape culture

Claiming rape is worse for asexual people again, and again, and again, and again, and again

Is the discourse becoming too “inclusive” of pedophiles?

The troubling trend of protecting pedophiles and calling out victims

On Sex In General 

How capitalism affects our perceptions of sexual culture

Asexuality is about sex in a way being Gay/Bi is not (And how it relates to explaining sex and sexuality to children)

Aces need to talk about sex too!

Erasure and Visibility

Visibility directly contributes to the violence LGBT people face

Visibility is not always positive and is often stereotyped and not good for LGBT people

Accepted versus Respected

“At least you have representation!”

A History of Ahistory

Arguments that the Spinster Movement was about asexuality cherry picks history 

Another post about the Spinster Movement

Assuming Boston Marriages were about asexuality

Asexuality is based on western/eurocentric ideas of sexuality

New terminology lacks historical context of “homosexual” 

And is often appropriating language from LGBT people

Even recent history gets rewritten 

The Ace Community really needs to just stop.

Pushing LGBT People Back into the Closet

Homophobia wants gay people to be asexual

Ace discourse has promoted sexually regressive and classic homophobic ideas about sex that has prevented LGB people from fully admitting to themselves their same-gender attraction. (Proof)

Ace discourse against same-gender PDA in LGBT safe spaces is classic homophobia

As well as dangerous to our sexual safety!

PDA is not applied to straight and gay people equally 

AIDS/HIV and Serophobia in the Ace Community

“We’re Here, We’re Queer” - was created in response to the AIDS Crisis   (Source)

Joking about the crisis to complain about gatekeeping

Resenting AIDS activism so much as to imply no young gay man today could possibly be affected by the AIDS crisis

Assuming no one alive during the crisis is speaking now about seraphobia (The AIDS Crisis is Not Over!)

Imagining sexually transmitted plagues that won’t affect asexuals

“Ok but that was like 40 years ago and homosexuality is now widely accepted”

Homophobia in the Ace Community 

Will comment on topics of violent homophobia with “at least they know you exist” so they can kill us

Ace tumblr or conservative republican?

Claiming people who hate aces are “Sexually Deviant”

Masterpost of some really terrible homophobic shit

“Gay people are obsessed with sex!” Edition of Ace Homophobia

This entire tag of fucked up shit ace people have said

Please feel free to reblog and add any arguments I may have missed. 

Click here for a more rebloggable version with a readmore cut.

[mockingj-ae]

When pansexuals ignore decades of bisexual activists telling people that bisexuality is attraction regardless of gender and trans-inclusive, we're told to just let people use whatever labels make them comfortable, even if those labels perpetuate stereotypes against us.

When biphobic lesbians ignore the fact that lesbianism used to include female bisexuality and that bisexual women have been a part of lesbian culture and subcultures (like butch–femme) since they were created, we're told that we're the ones stealing another community's culture, even if that community is one that we were once a part of.

When straight, gay, and lesbian people ignore studies showing that bisexual people have higher rates of suicide, depression, and binge drinking, we're told that at least we have straight passing privilege, even if bisexual people aren't always in duaric relationships and we still experience biphobia while in them.

Why does it feel like everyone is against us? I mean, I know that isn't true. There are many lesbian, gay, and straight people that do care about and fight with us. And yet, the bisexual community continually expresses that we are unwelcomed and unsafe in our own communities. Our issues are treated as nothing more than internet discourse that doesn't affect real life, but it is so much deeper than that.

[mockingj-ae]

basically what i n a lotta other bi ppl have desperately been trying 2 make ppl understand is that bisexuals r real, actual ppl. u cannot build ur idea of what bisexuality is like off ur imagination based on like, what privilege boxes u think we do or dont tick n just decide that this imaginary bisexual life uve created on ur own is the reality.

this is why yall r obsessed w bisexuals having “straight passing privilege” n shit like that, why u wont acknowledge biphobia is a real problem n not discourse, why u constantly act like bisexuals oppress u n ur punching up somehow by shitting on us… bc yall have NEVER ever looked @ bisexuals as real n wondered what our community ACTUALLY is like.

over n over again ppl paint bisexuals as primarily cis, white, middle class oppressors, even though the numbers show that bisexuals r more likely 2 b trans, more likely 2 b ppl of color n more likely 2 live in poverty. despite this, bi-specific spaces n resources r gravely lacking, n bisexual needs receive a fragment of the funding that the lesbian, gay, n transgender communities receive. in lgbt organisations, 7% of board members identify as bisexual, as opposed to 59% being gay or lesbian. this is despite bisexuals being the largest part of the lgbt community.

throughout all this bisexuals constantly talk abt feeling unwelcome in lgbt spaces, feeling we have 2 hide part of our identity, that we cant b out as bi in lgbt spaces, that were only welcome so long as we dont contribute n dont disagree..

bisexuals r constantly walking on thin ice in our own community bc of the biphobic image others in the lgbt community have built of us, an image that is provably contrary 2 reality. this needs 2 b a big deal. this cannot b discourse or “opinions”. this is real life n yall NEED 2 shake up.

ik only bisexuals r going 2 rb this post, bc its always only bisexuals talking abt biphobia. but i wish the ppl who r going 2 see this post frm a bi person they follow n not reblog it would @ least think abt it.

[mockingj-ae]

Like one bisexual person might look at an androgynous looking person and say “I want to know what gender that is before I decide whether or not I’m interested” and another bisexual person might say “I don’t care either way, I’m still interested”. And people who believe in pansexuality would insist those are two different sexualities, rather than just two different approaches to being bi.

I don't see how pansexuals don't realize it's just a flavour of MOGAI now

[mockingj-ae]

i wish i was as cool as her..

[mockingj-ae]

had to unfollow someone because they were pansexual… yikes.

so anyway here’s your daily reminder that pansexuality is biphobic because it misdefines bisexuality, it’s the same thing as bisexuality, it was created as a way to not use the bisexual label & paints itself as something more progressive though it’s literally the same thing, it’s transphobic and biphobic, it’s the same thing as bisexuality, it’s the same thing as bisexuality, it was created as a way to not use the bisexual label, it misdefines bisexuality in a transphobic way, it’s definition & terms are again, just bisexuality, it misdefines bisexuality and what gender is as a concept, its roots are incredibly biphobic, it misdefines bisexuality and the experience of being nonbinary… oh and it’s a rebranded version of bisexuality! pan people, i am begging you to read the bisexual manifesto and to analyze why you identify as pansexual and not bisexual. please.

[mockingj-ae]

You know, the issue with lumping everyone who isn’t cishet under the LGBTetc alphabet stew (or worse still, the q-word) and lumping everyone who isn’t white under POC means that you’re no longer classifying people by what they *are* but by what they *aren’t*. How is it a good thing for race to be two categories “white” and “everything else”, the same categories a white suprematist would use?

Really good way to put it.

[mockingj-ae]

fuckery posted in a trans group on Facebook that I’m a part of lmfao me and like 10 other transsexuals laid into this person who posted this shit. The “transgender umbrella” was created in the 60s-70s and transsexuals were forced into it along with everyone who deviated in any way from the norm of expression... because transsexuals were viewed as cross dressers, because medical transition was not as advanced as it is in 2021. This entire post was so offensive and the bitch that posted it isn’t even transsexual and kept trying to delete our criticisms.

[mockingj-ae]

[mockingj-ae]

(long post)

as a bisexual, i’m so exhausted by this bi/pan discourse, whether discussing it online or with people i know irl, and i hate feeling like i’m screaming into a void so i’d rather just put it into one text post and stop talking about it myself and redirect that energy elsewhere.

first off i have people in my life dear to me who identify as pan, including my own sister who is my best friend, and i don’t automatically hate anyone just for identifying as pan (especially if you’re trans). what i hate is that no amount of logical reasoning, historical evidence, and straight up critical thinking skills is enough to tell people why the label itself has done so much harm to bisexuality. it’s not about how pan people as a whole are the supposed bad guys and bi oppressors or whatever, it’s literally just about the label itself and how it has not only exacerbated already existing negative bi stereotypes but created new ones.

it feels like nobody cares enough to discuss these issues and think about this critically except for bisexuals, and that’s because this is an issue affecting us. the only other support i’ve seen are from gay men and lesbians (particularly trans and nonbinary). everytime someone makes a well-written, well-researched post about the pan community’s biphobia and transphobia, it feels like it’s for nothing because a majority of people will still have this condescending, self-victimizing “pan people are not the reason why society is biphobic, let people identify however they want and stop blaming it on us” attitude that tries to absolve them from any sort of fault.

and then to turn around and claim that bisexuals are being panphobic like ...what is panphobia that isn’t biphobia? is it just people telling you that your label is not valid? i can think of a list of things that people associate with bisexuals (greedy, sluttiness, unfaithful, dirty, indecisive, etc.) and i never see any of that associated with pansexuals. it’s just weird to me to tell bisexuals to shut up and then turn around and claim that you have it worse.

when people and media do portray pansexuals as “hearts not parts” and more progressive, i never see people’s first instinct being “hey that is biphobic and transphobic,” i always see people’s first instinct being “that’s not what pansexual actually means!!” it shows me that you don’t care about solidarity when you’re more concerned about defending the definition of a label that’s constantly changing rather than calling out the prejudice against other groups.

and to see celebrities like miley cyrus straight up saying “i hate the word bisexual because it’s putting me in a box.” kehlani saying “i’m not bi, i like everyone including trans and nonbinary, i’m pan.” lauren jauregui saying “i used to be bi but i found being pan so much more liberating.” rina sawayama saying “i realized i’m pan because i’m also attracted to nonbinary.” is all just disappointing especially because i’ve looked up to all of these women at one point or another. i’m not claiming any of them are biphobic but their statements further stigamatize bi people and i have seen people only praise them for it. also not all of these were said verbatim but that was the general jist of their coming out. plus there has been a lot more offensive coming outs but i wont get into those because i don’t care enough about those celebrities.

and lastly it really sucks to see that lgbt spaces, organizations and companies have just kind of went with this. seeing all these pride merchandise for unnecessary “mga” labels like polysexual/omnisexual. inaccurately redefining bisexual to validate these other identities is what kills me the most. bisexuality by definition has never excluded trans and nonbinary people. i constantly see the definition of pansexuality changing and i still don’t know any clear definition that is both not biphobic and different from bisexual. some people say it’s a microlabel, some people say it’s completely different, but it’s all inconsistent and often offensive.

i have no interest in discussing queer politics with people who still use the original biphobic/transphobic definitions of pan. people who go through verbal and mental gymnastics to differentiate between bi and pan. people who have no interest in changing their biphobia. people who take any criticism of the term pansexuality as a personal attack.

i probably have a lot more to say but i’m getting tired of writing all that out, there have been so many people who have said everything i did but better and more elaborate. i have zero interest in engaging any further with this discourse, i will probably still reblog posts by other bisexuals. but unless you have real critical thinking skills, ability to take criticism, and an open mind, i have zero interest in discussing this. if anyone new or already following me wanted to know how i feel about this then this is the furthest i will go.

if anyone cared enough to read through this whole thing i really seriously appreciate it a lot. i love my fellow bisexuals and also everyone supportive of our voices, especially lesbians who i’ve noticed have been our strongest allies. my new years wish is that people will stop dismissing biphobia. that people will care about uplifting and suppporting bisexuality. here’s a great tweet by joshua rush to end this post. happy 2021 💗💜💙

[mockingj-ae]

“Bisexuals are attracted to people because of gender, pansexuals are attracted to people in spite of gender” is apparently a new redefinition of bisexuality and pansexuality going around. Yet again, this definition reinforces the concept of “genderblindness” and attempts to label bisexuals as “fixated on gender”, not unlike the stereotypes of bisexuals promoting the gender binary, being transphobic, being cis, etc. A quick google search will tell you that bisexuals have been describing their attraction as regardless of gender for decades now but, of course, pansexuality relys on historical revisionism and biphobia.

[mockingj-ae]

When will LGBTQ+ ppl LEARN that putting down or casting out other members of the community will 👏 not 👏 make 👏 cishets 👏 like 👏 you 👏

They’ll play nice and pretend they’re cool with you for licking boot and then as soon as you become even remotely inconvenient to them, upset the norm just a little too much for their liking, you’re right back at fuckin square one being systemically oppressed again except this time you’ve driven away everyone who would support you

Because you were never free of that oppression. They were only playing nice with you bc you were doing their dirty work for them, because you were fulfilling a specific and highly restricted role in their social order, and the second you deviate from your place they fuck you. Because you were supposed to be the gay friend they could trot out to say “see I’m not homophobic!” You were supposed to be the trans guy that shat on the enbies so that the cishets could point to you and say “see, there are some sensible trans people that agree with me, there are only two genders!” You were supposed to be the good wholesome white middle-class lesbian couple with 2.5 kids and a white picket fence so they could point to you and say “ see, they’re just like us! Not like those weird gross queers with their rainbows and piercings and crazy hair and their loud protests and their degenerate lifestyles.” You weren’t supposed to be an actual human being with rights.

And the ONLY way we will get those rights is by getting the fuck together and fighting for them as a group. ALL of us. The gays, the lesbians, the bis, the transes, the enbies, the aces, the aros, the stargender quoi-demisexual polyamorous kinkster drag kings. Everyone.

WE DO NOT EXIST TO BE PALATABLE TO ALLOCISHETS. We exist for OURSELVES, to be ourselves and live our lives in a way that makes us happy and fulfilled. And maybe for you that means 2.5 kids and a white picket fence, but for others that means being openly, loudly, profoundly, proudly, inconveniently queer. And you won’t get to live your white-picket-fence life in peace if your fellow queers are not also free to live their lives in peace. Our community is about liberation, for everyone. Everyone should be able to live and love freely. And if everyone is not free, then no one is free.

So I say this to ace/aro spectra exlusionists:

to trans and/or nonbinary exclusionists:

to transmedicalists:

to bi/pan/multiple-attraction exclusionists:

to those of you who would disparage satellites of the LGBTQ+ community, such as kinksters, furries, polyamorists, dragsters, sex workers:

to those of you who draw lines in the sand and cut out those of us who are ambiguous, strange, hard to define, don’t fit into your personal definition of the L, G, B, and T:

to those of you who exclude anyone you think is too loud, too proud, too cringey, too weird, too queer:

You better learn your history and change your tune quick, or you can fuck right off.

We’re here, we’re queer, and y'all need to get the fuck used to it.

[mockingj-ae]

welcome!

this is my side blog dealing with LGBT discourse. these are my opinions and if you disagree you are welcome to leave an ask! i’m always happy to educate people on lgbt manners. of course, i’m not perfect so i may get a few things wrong as well. let’s learn from each other! my opinions are bound to change if i see i that new evidence has come out to suggest otherwise or if i was previously wrong.

opinions:

general LBGT discourse

cishet aces, cishet aros, cis aroaces are not LGBT

anti mogai/neopronouns

you can’t be trans without dysphoria

anti polyamory

anti he/him lesbians

sex is binary

the split model attraction is bullshit

bisexuality and biphobia

bi women can use butch and femme and can reclaim dyke

all “m-spec” labels are inherently biphobic

straight passing privilege and monosexual privilege do not exist

pansexuality is bisexuality for people who want to feel special

refusing to date a bisexual person for no other reason except their bisexuality is extremely biphobic

general discourse topics

anti shipping minors

pro choice

anti TERF, SWERF, febfams, radfems

anti religion

tag system:

#bi discourse

#pan discourse

#nb discourse

#ace discourse

#trans discourse

#lgbt discourse

[mockingj-ae]

saying that cishet aces aren’t straight because their asexuality takes away their straightness DIRECTLY states that gay aces are not gay because their asexuality takes away their gayness

either gay aces are gay and cishet aces are straight, or cishet aces aren’t straight and gay aces are forcefully robbed of their identity to be inclusive to cishets

does that sound like a good movement to yall? cause my gay ace ass doesn’t think so

[mockingj-ae]

I don’t think the question we ask people should always be, “How can someone be trans if they don’t have dysphoria?”

I think the question should be, “How can someone be trans when they’re completely comfortable with their biological sex and sex characteristics?”

I feel like the latter forces them to think about it more and adds a bit of clarity to what we’re asking.