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nephilimupdates · 2 years ago

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Reacting in super short

So many points, and I had actually randomly discussed a few of these

Top of my head - Tale of Two cities, also a story about a person who sacrifices himself for something his love loves. As in his love’s husband. His love who is like an Angel

I am scared to parallel it to Crowley who will sacrifice himself to save Aziraphael’s love , heaven/earth.

Pride and prejudice - this a bit on the nose as Aziraphale has prejudice against demons and hell. He thinks all demons are bad. He thinks crowley doesn’t deserve to be a demon cause he is good, it’s an error by the divine that he is. he also is blind to the faults of heaven, it’ll take some external factors for him to see the truth.

I havent read thé crow Road, but i understand it’s a story about the road to death, unrequited love and based in Scotland..

Either is a random nod to Scotland considering that’s where the cemetery was.

Or it’s about something deeper, to do with death And the ongoing feud on opinions of religion and beliefs..

I.e that’s Aziraphale and Crowley’s biggest difference, the thing the don’t agree on, the entire concept of Heaven being good, and looking at things so black and white. I just hope here no one dies without them being able to resolve this.

Why do I have this sinking feeling that Crowley may die in S3 (I don’t know if he will stay dead)

Stuff no one has mentioned yet about Good Omens S2...

Crowley’s waistcoat is leather because he is a slutty snek. Crowley is not always on the left any more. The star map is written in Gallifrayan. Nina calls Maggie ‘angel’. The Bentley is all over black when in S1 it was black and grey. Crowley calls Aziraphale Lady Bracknell - there is also an Oscar Wilde nod with the Metatron talking about casting out archangels in the same way Lady Bracknell talks about losing parents. ‘The awning of a new era’ is an under appreciated line. Why isn’t Maggie affected by Aziraphale’s miracles in the bookshop ball? Why is Nina the only one to realise the Wickber Street meeting is not normal? The Bentley tries to please Aziraphale in the same way the mobile phone does. Crowley puts CDs in the car sound system, Aziraphale just asks the Bentley to play things - possibly why it doesn’t melt to Queen. Crowley actually slaps Aziraphale’s hand away from the Bentley. The fly is in the box at the start. Ennon is so gay. Why can’t Maggie spell? Why is there a perfect statue of Gabriel in a Scottish graveyard? Why is there a witchfinder and a Scottish surgeon both called Dalrymple? Crowley pointing a paintball gun at Aziraphale and hating his magic tricks in S1 hits different after seeing S2. Technically there are three zombie nazis still shambling around London? The Metatron is dodgy as all get out. There are a lot of references to not knowing or remembering things that a character ought to know - it is very suspicious. When Crowley talks to Gabriel about not remembering he sounds horribly familiar with the process. Crowley wears his glasses during Job and Rome - when he's in a bad mood. I think Muriel saw the kiss from outside the window? Tale of Two Cities, Pride and Prejudice, and The Crow Road are books that come up in shot again and again. They can be said to have similar themes to S1, S2, and maybe S3?

#good omens #gos2 #meta #thoughts #good omens 2 #crowley #aziraphael

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nephilimupdates · 2 years ago

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i think there's such an important distinction that aziraphale didn't choose heaven over crowley. he chose heaven for crowley. yes it was misguided and wrong, but he was doing it all with crowley in his mind.

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nephilimupdates · 2 years ago

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Ok so about good omens 1.. was there devil/Satan actually that or was he a sort of vague manifestation of Adam’s reality. Cause how can an Angel suddenly look like that?

(I still feel that Lucifer and Satan are 2 different beings, and taht Satan, true manifestation of evil, always sort of existed since the start of time, before the time of angels. Like almighty and Satan came into being at the same time)

#good omens #good omens 2

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nephilimupdates · 2 years ago

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Why is Crowley’s number plate CURTAIN?

#good omens #good omens 2 #crowley

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nephilimupdates · 2 years ago

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Just been thinking about how when Aziraphale said that 'Nothing Lasts Forever' and Crowley immediately took that in a totally different way than Aziraphale intended.

The look of surprise and confusion that quickly becomes desperation that takes over Aziraphale face as Crowley walks away, he calls out to him, begs him to come back to him, and quickly covers it up with 'to heaven.'

he didn't mean them, he would never mean them.

the places would change, the circumstances would change, the people and the play and the drama would change, they have always had different seasons of their relationship.

but them, together, as always been as constant as the tides and the phases of the moon, even if they get separated for a month or a decade or a century, they always come back together.

Also been thinking about how Crowley doesn't have faith in a lot of things (for obvious reasons), but the most heart breaking is how he has no faith that underneath it all, no matter what, Aziraphale loves him and wants to be with him, even though he has a mountain of evidence of it.

Its been pointed out that Aziraphale this whole season has seemed to be trying to get closer emotionally to Crowley, 'shooting his shot.'

'Its our car, its our bookshop, its our plan to save Gabriel, take my hand lets dance while you tell me what's wrong my dear boy.'

More than just an arrangement, more than fraternizing, more then just friendly banter over drinks and food, it always was more, but now they can act like it, Aziraphale is going for it in his own way.

and Aziraphale is so obviously frustrated during the fight that Crowley doesn't see that.

but come on, you can't blame Crowley at this point, Aziraphale is effectively asking Crowley to change literally everything about themselves and forget a millennia of trauma and anger and guilt and self-loathing.

It sure makes it seem like Aziraphales love is now suddenly conditional on them changing.

I don't think Aziraphale sees it that way though right?

He doesn't see it as 'I will love Crowley more if they are an angel.' he sees it as 'Crowley will be happier as an angel surely? They will also be safer with that designation.' and 'any sacrifice will be worth it if it means we'll finally be able to be safe and together.'

See, I don't think Aziraphale even wants Crowley to be an angel again.

I think he's trying to convince himself that he wants that, which is what makes the Metatron offering that in the first place so damn insidious.

I think in his heart of hearts, appointing Crowley to be an angel again is just as much of a sacrifice to him as leaving his beloved bookshop, leaving earth with all its wonderful music and color and life and stories and people, but what does that say about him as an angel?

Everyone can sneer and look down on him for having affections for a demon but there is some plausible deniability that its just bad circumstances, Crowley just happens to be a demon but he's really very lovely once you get to know him, in spite of it all.

But like...giving Aziraphale the opportunity to make Crowley an angel again and he doesn't want to take it because...he loves Crowley exactly the way he is? That he may have had a crush on the angel he was, but it was truly The Demon Crowley that he fell in love with.

I think Aziraphale is gonna need some time to get brave enough to say that with his whole chest (but dear lord will it be wonderful when he does.)

And the Metatron knows this, and he knows Crowley is exactly who he is supposed to be, and so The Metatron knows that Crowley could never ever say yes to going back, it goes against his very nature, he knew that Crowley would take it exactly the way he did.

(Ergo more evidence that splitting them up is the whole goal because they're just too powerful together.)

So, Aziraphale is stuck in the worst way I can imagine.

He's given the opportunity to have everything he should want, so he's trying to make the best of it even though it decidedly isn't what he wants, because its evident that the meddling from Heaven and Hell isn't going away, the Metatron is giving him the path of least resistance, isn't that going along with Heaven as far as he can?

Every word he says to Crowley about how wonderful it will be and how this is an amazing opportunity and we'll be together and we'll make better choices, we'll make a difference.

Its trying to convince himself just as much.

I think Aziraphale is terrified of going back to heaven by himself, but what other choice does he have? He's terrified about what will happen if he doesn't, and not because of any explicit threat by the Metatron, but what it would imply about him, if they knew exactly how he felt about Crowley, what might they do to them both?

and that's why the Kiss™ is so horrible and beautiful at the same time, its harsh and it looks like it hurts when their teeth bump together and it is so desperate, but Aziraphale still clings to Crowley, trembling and whimpering (jesus christ sheen...)

More than an expression of romantic love (because by God herself have they expressed it in so many ways for thousands of years,) its a plea to stay, choose this, choose us.

And Aziraphale wants to, but he can't, and its agony, but how could he explain that to Crowley when he barely understands it himself, he doesn't recognize what the Metatron has done.

That's why Aziraphale seems just as angry at the kiss as he is fucking devastated, its not a 'how dare you kiss me,' its an 'how dare you kiss me right now, in this moment, when if it had came earlier everything might have been different."

"How dare you kiss me now to just let me know everything I'm giving up, and not just because you wanted to."

"How dare you make this our first kiss."

Aziraphale doesn't see the Kiss™ as the Hail Mary that it is, he sees it as a spiteful bitter thing, something that he has been yearning for forever being twisted into something to hurt him, but I think he can see the sadness and fear in it too, so he forgives Crowley for it.

And of course, Crowley takes that to mean, "I forgive you for kissing me when you know that's not how I feel, for trying to manipulate me." or something to that effect, either way its enough for him to leave the conversation, nothing more to say.

I think Aziraphales next arc is going to be all about being open and honest and brave, which is in exact juxtaposition to the traits that made him grow closer to Crowley in the first place and that's what really fucking gets me.

From giving away the flaming sword, the entire damn arrangement, trying to thwart the apocalypse, to the very fact that he loves Crowley.

"I'm a fallen angel! I lied! To thwart the will of God!"

"Yeah, ya did, but I'm not gonna tell anybody, are you?"

"Then nothing has to change."

Except it did, and it does, if they are to get their happy ending in their cottage in the south downs.

anyway, yeah that's all i wanted to say i think, how was your guys week so far?

gif credit:

@starklystar @raggedy-spaceman @spooks-ez

(if i missed anyone or miscredited pls lmk!)

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nephilimupdates · 2 years ago

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In all the song suggestions for Good Omens, I raise you

“good things fall apart” by Illenium and Jon Bellion

“Did I say something wrong? Did you hear what I was thinking?

Did I talk way too long when I told you all my feelings that night?

…..

Overthinking's got me drinking

Messing with my head, whoa

Tell me what you hate about me

Whatever it is, I'm sorry

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

I know I can be dramatic

But everybody said we had it

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

I'm coming to terms with a broken heart

I guess that sometimes good things fall apart”

youtube

#good omens #good omens 2 #Crowley #Aziraphale #Ineffeble husbands #ineffable spouses #azira crow #Youtube

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nephilimupdates · 2 years ago

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Why Crowley is genuinely good

(and not because of Aziraphale's influence)

There are inherently evil demons who enjoy doing bad stuff and take pride in their actions. This is not the case with Crowley, who I prefer to describe as a fallen angel rather than a demon. And I'm not saying this just because he used to be an angel; Beelzebub is a fallen angel too, but they're definitely a demon.

Crowley is a pretty neutral being. He might not be heavenly, but he's not evil. Has he done stuff? Probably. But there's some undeniable truth to it: all the good things he's done, he's done out of his own will. No one pushed, asked or expected him to (except Aziraphale, but only out of hope). On the other hand, all the bad things he's done, he's done either because of direct orders from his superiors (and we've seen him act reluctantly in these cases, like when he delivered baby Adam) or because of social pressure (demons are evil and he's a demon, so he's supposed to do bad stuff, that's why he usually takes credit of things humans do to look like he's doing his job). Either way, doing evil acts is a cover to live up to Hell's expectations.

Considering this is enough to understand why even though Crowley isn't a bad guy, he's still perceived as such and is even a renowned and highly respected demon in Hell (at least before Armaggedon't). But I'll still describe how this is evidenced and backed by what we've seen and inferred about Crowley. Plus, featuring some moments from S2 that got me screaming he's such a good guy during my first watch.

Part One: The fall

Crowley knew from the beginning he didn't quite fit in with the angels, but this wasn't problematic at first. He didn't care about good and evil or the ineffable plan; he only cared about creating a universe. He wasn't really driven by goodness; that's why he's a neutral being from the beginning. But everything started to drift apart when he got the news that his creations would be destroyed for no reason. Destroying the nebula after 6000 years made no sense to him, and questioning came naturally. This is where he becomes a problem; he starts asking questions and trying to suggest things instead of being diligent and obeying.

We don't know exactly why he fell; what did he say to make God angry enough to cast him out of Heaven. But we know, as both Crowley and Metatron previously stated, that he asked too many questions. And asking questions is not something of wicked nature, so Crowley didn't fall for being inherently evil. He was just curious, and the people in charge didn't like that.

And it's not like a fallen angel had a lot of options back then. It was only Heaven and Hell; you're either an angel or a demon. Crowley didn't pick to be in Hell because he wanted to; it was his only option for survival. I imagine Hell was eager to have another fallen angel -just like Lucifer himself- on their side. For Crowley, it felt like his questioning was acknowledged and approved; he was probably hurt and confused because he didn't think asking questions was wrong, but Heaven rejected him for doing so. And in Hell, he found a place where no one cared what he thought, so he stayed there. It doesn't mean he agreed with Hell's ways; just as he didn't fit in with the angels, he didn't fit in with the demons. He's always been on his own, but as Heaven turned its back on him, Hell didn't, and that was enough for him.

Our first conclusion: Crowley didn't fall for being evil; he fell for asking questions, not being obedient and having his own opinions. So he isn't inherently evil from the beginning. His nature is curious and inquisitive, not wicked.

Part Two: The diligence

Since Crowley didn't have the same views as Hell, he didn't fully agree with their ways, just like when he was in Heaven. The difference is now he knows what happens if he starts bothering his superiors with questions and suggestions. That's why he decides to agree with Hell to a certain point. He knows he's on his own (and has always been), but he won't let it show because it would lead to trouble. So the best option is to pretend to follow Hell's orders while doing the bare minimum. As we know, Hell only cares that things get done. They don't care how, and they -most of the time- don't even check. If it looks like it's been done, they're satisfied. Crowley takes this as an opportunity to pretend without actually doing the stuff he doesn't want to do, like killing goats just for God and Lucifer to prove a point.

We could say he's a trickster, making both Hell and Heaven believe that he's doing all this stuff so no one bothers him because he's meeting the expectations. Heaven won't want him back because he's proving them right: he was a pain in the ass, always asking questions and wanting to go his own way. Hell perceives him as a proficient demon responsible for so much evil on Earth, so he's off their radar because they don't ask many questions. They couldn't care less what demons think as long as they're not being subversive. And Crowley learnt not to give suggestions or ask too much, so he's the perfect demon.

Our second conclusion: Crowley didn't turn evil after the fall. He kept being curious and inquisitive, having his own opinions, with the difference that he learnt to keep them to himself. We could even say he pretends to be evil, doing the bare minimum to avoid suspicion but avoiding stuff he disagrees with.

Part Three: The evidence

Ok, this is the fun bit. I always saw Crowley as a good but misunderstood character, but S2 is filled with moments where this is evident. And why, you ask? Mainly because there are situations where a naturally evil character would not do the things he does. In other words: when the most effortless choice (not doing anything) was coincidentally what someone evil would do, he'd do something else. He could not do anything, and it'd be on character for a demon, but he actively chose to do something (because he wanted it) when he didn't need to. So he's not just being passively good; he's actively choosing to do something good.

These are some moments I'd like to recall, in order of appearance on S2:

Telling the spies at the park that they shouldn't feed bread to the ducks because it's not good for them. He didn't need to, but he cares about the ducks (and all animals in general, we'll get to it again later). I consider his love for animals worth mentioning because it feels like most angels don't care about animals or humans that much. They're collateral damage, a piece in the big game. But he does!!!

When Nina and Maggie are locked down in the coffee shop, they stop him on his way to the bookshop. He realizes he made the power go down. He could've easily left them there because he was in a hurry (Beelzebub just told him that anyone helping Gabriel would be at risk), and they didn't even know it was his fault. They weren't expecting him to fix his error; they were looking for help. And, well, he's a demon after all. He should be glad to get two humans into this kind of misfortune. But he didn't even stop to think. He fixed it and even apologized (when he didn't need to because, as I said, they didn't know it was his fault).

This one is obvious (and kinda biased because it involves Aziraphale, and he'd do anything for him), but Crowley deciding to help Gabriel? He's the one who said they had to protect him from everyone, even humanity.

When Crowley turned Job's goats into crows so they would go unnoticed while looking like he killed them. He even made sure to sound so cold-blooded when talking about it with Aziraphale, only for it to be revealed that he hid them. This was particularly risky because God and Hell required him to do this. He just didn't give a fuck and protected the goats because he wanted to. This is some good guy behaviour right here. Also a bit anarchist, but this is not the point now.

Another obvious one, but he protected the kids too. And this was even riskier not because they were more recognizable than goats, but because now Aziraphale -an angel!!- knew what he was doing. But he didn't care because he knew Aziraphale would understand him. After all, that's how he started: questioning God's plan.

Crowley was pretending to turn the kids into geckos because they annoyed him, but that was his plan all along to hide them until they could come back safely. Then, when Jemimah asks to be turned into a blue gecko he's like "oh but you're not bothering me yet" but after she asked again he turned her. Would an evil demon do that? Definitely not.

When Aziraphale expresses how worried and guilty he feels about lying, Crowley tells him he won't say anything about what happened. Nothing has to change. I wouldn't mention what he does for Aziraphale because he loves him, so he goes out of his way to do good stuff for him. But at this point, they weren't that close, and another demon in his situation would've easily talked about Aziraphale's lie so he'd get in trouble with Heaven. But he chose to protect Aziraphale, even if he gained nothing from it. Even knowing that Aziraphale was a bit like him and that they could be together if Aziraphale fell too. Because neither is demon material and because Crowley felt lonely.

The whole Elspeth situation. It was so unlikely for a demon to act like that Hell noticed and -as we can assume- punished him. And it's not only about stopping her suicide and giving her money and advice to start a new life. He spent the whole time trying to convince Aziraphale that she was doing it because she had no choice, that she wasn't a bad person. Also, this is a little detail but the fact that he offered Elspeth to carry the barrel for her multiple times. It was so unnecessary but he did it anyway.

He made up some random rules to ensure the humans were safe and far from the battleground when it started. For the other demons, it was just collateral damage. He even walked them out himself. And gave him advice on how to get home safely.

Part Four: The perceptions

We know how Heaven and Hell perceive Crowley, I already talked about it. But let's see how other people see him.

I said I won't mention any Aziraphale situations, but I'd like to point out that Aziraphale knows that Crowley is not mean. He notices (and loves) these things he does. He says it better than I do:

Aziraphale: I knew you would come through for me. You always do. Crowley: Well, you said trust me. Aziraphale: And you did. You could've walked away. If you were truly as evil as you like to paint yourself, you would’ve done that.

He KNOWS Crowley is just pretending to be a proper demon. At first, I thought it was him being delusional/hopeful/in denial. But then I noticed I spent the whole season thinking the same way. Maybe we're both delusional, but I know Crowley is a good guy. And Aziraphale knows as well, but this time, he talked about it. He summarized all I've been talking about: you say you're so evil, but someone that evil wouldn't do the things you do. But he's not pushing him; he's just letting him know that he's aware, that he understands and sees him for who he really is. And most importantly, he doesn't have to keep a facade when he's around.

When it comes to humans, most of them probably see him as a mysterious guy. Some, like Nina or Mrs Sandwich, would say he's good. After all, he's been good to them. But the conversation Crowley had with Mrs Sandwich brings me to my next point: how he sees himself, and how he thinks he's perceived.

Mrs Sandwich: Thank you. You're really nice. Crowley: Don't thank me. And I'm not. Nobody would believe you anyway.

Everyone got stuck with the "and I'm not" bit, and I don't blame you. But what he says next is very important because it means:

He knows he's not evil. If he were evil, he would leave it at "I'm not". But that last bit was unnecessary. It sounds like: "Even if I were (I am), they would not believe it (they don't see it)". But he doesn't sound frustrated about it; it's as if he were saying: "Don't waste your time pointing it out because no one else will see it". And this brings me to the next point.

He's been trying to be perceived as such because it's what everyone expects. "Nobody" refers to Heaven and Hell, and they wouldn't believe it because they assumed from the beginning that he was evil; that's how demons are supposed to be. And he's made sure to act (or pretend to) in a way that reinforces that thought.

Crowley is well aware of his nature. He knows he's not good or evil. He's just Crowley. But he also knows how everyone sees him, and he knows he needs to be perceived as such to avoid bringing attention to himself. And it's easier for him once Aziraphale lets him know he sees him for who he truly is. He's the only one he cares about anyway.

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