p5x-theories - Tumblr blog

[p5x-theories]

How would a "full deck" of Social Links work?

If they actually did decide to go for a plan of having a huge cast themed around the entire Tarot deck it would probably make the most sense for the Major Arcana to be reserved for the important story characters, while the Phantom Idol/Confidant-only characters would use the Minor Arcana.  This would make the distinction between main and side content clear.

Having 20 story party members might seem like a lot, but this is a live service game that ideally will keep going for years, and I’ve theorized that instead of wrapping up in winter the story will keep going.  If the plan is to fully cover Wonder’s final two years of high school 20 party members seems about right or maybe a little bit short (time to break out the alternative decks?)

It would also be neat to follow the Fool’s Journey more closely than in previous games and have the numbers of the Arcana be the introduction order of the characters.  I don’t know if they’d actually do this or if they’ve even planned that far ahead, but it would be cool to watch unfold if they did pull it off.

If they wanted to make it clear that some Confidants are more important than others will still firmly being part of the supporting cast instead of the main cast they could use the court cards (Kings/Queens/Knights/Pages) for them.

(Not part of the theory but also worth noting: P5’s Major Arcana is patterned after the Tarot de Marseilles, but P5X’s Minor Arcana seems to be based on the Thoth Tarot.)

Boring but More Likely Theory: Major Arcana and the Large Cast

So how are they going to handle the Arcana if Wonder has more Confidants than Tarot has Major Arcana?  Pulling cards from alternate decks has precedent, but it’s usually more of a spin-off/rerelease thing and there are only so many unless you go really obscure.  Minor Arcana links would be fun, but it hasn’t been done before.  And I really hope they don’t get rid of the Tarot theming altogether.

But maybe the most likely solution is taking a different path: Not limiting the game to only having one character per Arcana.  Maybe Wonder has the ability to meet multiple Magicians, High Priestesses, etc.

This may not be the most interesting option, but it’s the simplest that doesn’t involve discarding the Arcana.

And this way if they do take the option of making Social Link Idols they don’t stand out against the P5X characters.  If Wonder’s Confidants are using increasingly obscure cards it’s a bit weird for random school and job friends of previous protagonists to show up rocking the familiar and iconic ones.  But if it’s standard for everyone to just be assigned a Major Arcana it’s business as usual.  Players brand new to the series won’t even ask about P4 having multiple Strength and Sun representatives, or P3 having both story Persona users and random side characters for some slots.

I’m combining both halves of this theory into one post in order to keep them together!

Having multiple characters per Arcana would make some sense, though I’d argue it’s a little different from previous games having multiple options for some Arcana, because in that case, the protagonist themselves still only picks one of those characters to form a bond with, who then represents that Arcana for them. I do agree it sets the precedent that could make this possible, I just wanted to clarify my thoughts on that because I can’t tell if you were equating that as 1:1 or just saying what I’m saying here in a shorter way, haha. Still, definitely better than not having Arcana at all!

I could also see them using minor Arcana for the Phantom Idols, although that would get a little strange too, since the minor Arcana are also used as items to power up teammates. I suppose there’s really no reason the cards couldn’t have multiple ways they’re featured in-game- Chihaya obviously uses tarot cards for her readings, and what she draws isn’t typically meant to be taken as relating to the characters who represent those Arcana- but it does feel relevant to the discussion here.

That said, I think you’re right that multiple characters per Arcana is probably the easiest way to go about it, especially as they continue to expand the cast. It’s certainly preferable to not having Arcana at all, hah.

[p5x-theories]

Anything on Riko/Wind yet? Feel they're really testing our patience with her especially with the new beta now teasing us with Polter being a story Thief × ×

I haven't finished looking through the files yet since I've also been playing the beta, heh, but I'll be honest? I don't think she's going to be in this beta, haha. Someone else would have posted her card/art already if it was in the files, and she'd have to have a card/art if she's playable in this beta.

I'm pretty sure they're just doing the same thing they did in the third beta, advertising things we can't actually see within the current beta. Their trailer strategy seems to be in favor of advertising the whole game, not just what will be available in the next beta. So they'll keep showing new things that aren't actually playable yet, unfortunately.

Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong. Maybe they'll add her in an update after Marian (though that starts to become a pretty long beta!) or something? But I'm really not optimistic at this point. I think our new information on her from this beta's just limited to seeing her Phantom Thief outfit in promos, and confirmation that her weapon's a parasol.

[p5x-theories]

I might be stating the obvious, but since the game themes are about desires, i think that the costumes, expecially in the phantom idols' case, are a manifestations of what they want instead of their rebelion. Okyann misses when she was a fashion icon, Rin misses her culture, Mont misses being an ice skater champion. The new girl (dont remember the name) wants to be a nurse, Reo wants to be an actor. Riddle probabily wants to be a detective when she grows up instead of a model, Puppet a marine biologist etc etc. But in some cases it can be a bit confusing. Im not sure what Seji or Seppia's costume could be. maybe Seiji its a butler because he wants to serve instead of being served? Seppia's homeless so maybe he wants to have a lavish life? Idk im just rambling rn

Honestly, I think it's really just a mix of both. Okyann might miss being a gyaru, but you could easily also tie it to her sense rebellion- besides herself mentioning in her Confidant that she tends to do things her own way, the gyaru subculture was born from a rebellion against "Japanese social and aesthetic standards" (quoted from Wikipedia). So there's an inherent aspect of rebellion to dressing like a gyaru. It might be that her strongest point of rebellion was just in the past, so her outfit reflects her gyaru days, as that's rebellion to her.

Similarly, with Rin- sure, she misses her culture I'm sure, but you could also consider it part of her rebellion against society that she's sticking to her overtly Chinese culture rather than, you know, moving to Japan for school and then conforming to Japanese society wholeheartedly. Holding onto that is her rebellion.

Leon and Marian (that's the nurse girl) both have something they're aspiring to be, despite other forces (Leon's parents, Marian's sense of responsibility to her family's store) pushing them to do something else. Probably Puppet, too, since she ran away from home, so I bet she wanted to be something (presumably related to the ocean) other than what her parents wanted her to be. Being these things in their Metaverse outfits is their rebellion.

I'll admit Riddle, Mont, Fleuret, and Sepia are a little trickier, but in large part because I have less to go on about them at the moment. Riddle's been set up by her video as kind of a smart kid for her age, and her outfit seems to be some kind of miner/inventor, so it might be her using her intelligence + curiosity to do things that adults think she can't? Mont's rebellion could be that she wants to keep skating despite the injury that stopped her, or, you're right, it could just be her desire to go back to when she could skate. Fleuret reminds me of a revolutionary, around the era of the Revolutionary War and the French Revolution, which has inherent ties to rebellion, but I don't know enough about him in the real world to speculate exactly what it means to him. Same with Sepia, except I'm not entirely sure what his outfit is to begin with, hah.

All that to say, I think there's just a strong correlation here between rebellion and desires, haha! To be clear, I don't think you're wrong, I think it's just typically a mix of both here.

[p5x-theories]

This is probabily just a coincidence but if it turns to be true i will eat my shorts /J

Heh, we know that some of the portraits are based heavily on P5 characters' own portraits (for instance, Mont's original portraits being clearly traced from Mika's), so I'm not sure it can be taken to mean anything that Akechi's downcast portrait looks sort of similar to Wuhexi's. But it would be fun if true!

[p5x-theories]

@complete-idiot-inc That's as good a theory as any right now, honestly! Personally I think the fact that they're setting her up prior to the third arc really "starting" must mean she has some weirder role than just a standard teammate joining for the next arc- my best guess is a problem later on, or maybe just stumbling into the Metaverse early and the team has to rescue her (like Fuuka)- but it could as easily be that she'll just be joining along with Riko in the third Palace arc.

there's also some sort of anime cutscene/teaser for polter / drawing girl! she has an encounter with cyler eats as well

Despite Faz's confusing video title, this is definitely a cutscene from the game, I assume one that just became available with the story + Bui update today based on the time the video was posted! I think he titled it "teaser" as in it's a scene that teases an upcoming Phantom Thief, hah.

That said, there's a couple interesting things about this cutscene. For one, Cyler Eats actually stops and puts out a hand possibly like they're trying to help her up or at least apologize, which is very different from the Cyler Eats that charged at Wonder on a train car. Does that have something to do with Cyler Eats being declared a "phantom" in relation to the train incident? Cyler Eats was also added briefly passing by Wonder and Cattle as they leave Ashouken after eating there, though they don't acknowledge Wonder whatsoever here. The train incident seems to be the outlier for their behavior, so it might have something to do with them being a "phantom" that time and maybe not the others.

Also, right before Cyler Eats comes by, Polter says "What's this?" about something on her phone screen. We know the MetaNav has been appearing randomly on people's phones, but we don't know why yet, and I have to wonder if that's what just happened to her. With the fact that they added Cyler Eats biking by as they're leaving Ashouken- right after meeting Shun- I'm starting to suspect maybe Cyler Eats might somehow be related to the MetaNav appearing, since they seem to be around right after it pops up onto someone's phone (though I'll admit I don't know exactly when it appeared on Shun's phone, but it could have been right then).

[p5x-theories]

@acespade67 It's very possible! Google translate just gave me "relative", and we know from his own video that Reo calls her "aunt", but that could be because she actually is his aunt, or just because that's easier than whatever more distant, specific relation is between them.

Fun news: The start of Kayo's Confidant actually confirms she and Reo are related, though I think her dialogue might be implying they're relatives in law, and Reo's technically directly related to her Darling (husband)?

From Google Translate, dialogue during the interaction with her that establishes her Confidant:

Kayo: "Ah, I'm sorry, it feels strange to say this suddenly, right?" "... This is how it is, there is a child from a relative who is coming to stay at my house recently." "That kid graduated from high school this year and should be about the same age as little Wonder, right?" "I heard that he has a dream to become... I remember it is... What is the special photography actor called?" "When he came to Tokyo, he seemed to plan to work part-time to earn tuition while attending an acting school." Wonder: "Very impressive"/"It will feel very hard" Kayo: "Right?" "In an era like this, as an adult, of course I want to cheer for him to be able to leave his parents and walk alone with his dreams in mind." "However, it is too difficult for young children today to grasp the sense of distance, right?" [skipping past a little tangent of hers for the sake of this post] ... "If I put pressure on the kid, it would be harder to say something to cheer him up, right?" "We also have to consider the relationship between relatives. I don't want to cause trouble for Darling because of myself."

That last line is what makes me think he might be the son of a relative specifically on her husband's side of the family, since otherwise it seems a bit odd she's worried about potentially causing trouble between Reo's parents and her husband. But it's not impossible Reo's actually on her side of the family, and either way she evidently does consider him part of her family.

(As an aside, later in this scene she also mentions her Darling works in the fashion industry, and she herself used to be a fashion stylist, so it's cute they have that shared interest!)

[p5x-theories]

Fun news: The start of Kayo's Confidant actually confirms she and Reo are related, though I think her dialogue might be implying they're relatives in law, and Reo's technically directly related to her Darling (husband)?

From Google Translate, dialogue during the interaction with her that establishes her Confidant:

Kayo: "Ah, I'm sorry, it feels strange to say this suddenly, right?" "... This is how it is, there is a child from a relative who is coming to stay at my house recently." "That kid graduated from high school this year and should be about the same age as little Wonder, right?" "I heard that he has a dream to become... I remember it is... What is the special photography actor called?" "When he came to Tokyo, he seemed to plan to work part-time to earn tuition while attending an acting school." Wonder: "Very impressive"/"It will feel very hard" Kayo: "Right?" "In an era like this, as an adult, of course I want to cheer for him to be able to leave his parents and walk alone with his dreams in mind." "However, it is too difficult for young children today to grasp the sense of distance, right?" [skipping past a little tangent of hers for the sake of this post] ... "If I put pressure on the kid, it would be harder to say something to cheer him up, right?" "We also have to consider the relationship between relatives. I don't want to cause trouble for Darling because of myself."

That last line is what makes me think he might be the son of a relative specifically on her husband's side of the family, since otherwise it seems a bit odd she's worried about potentially causing trouble between Reo's parents and her husband. But it's not impossible Reo's actually on her side of the family, and either way she evidently does consider him part of her family.

(As an aside, later in this scene she also mentions her Darling works in the fashion industry, and she herself used to be a fashion stylist, so it's cute they have that shared interest!)

[p5x-theories]

@acesuperstar96 It's possible, although I'd be a little surprised if she reflects Yusuke's role at all despite joining distinctly later in the story. I think the only way she'd really be able to at that point is if her art mentor is a Palace ruler, or if maybe they introduce skill cards as a mechanic and as something she can copy/make (like Yusuke does).

there's also some sort of anime cutscene/teaser for polter / drawing girl! she has an encounter with cyler eats as well

Despite Faz's confusing video title, this is definitely a cutscene from the game, I assume one that just became available with the story + Bui update today based on the time the video was posted! I think he titled it "teaser" as in it's a scene that teases an upcoming Phantom Thief, hah.

That said, there's a couple interesting things about this cutscene. For one, Cyler Eats actually stops and puts out a hand possibly like they're trying to help her up or at least apologize, which is very different from the Cyler Eats that charged at Wonder on a train car. Does that have something to do with Cyler Eats being declared a "phantom" in relation to the train incident? Cyler Eats was also added briefly passing by Wonder and Cattle as they leave Ashouken after eating there, though they don't acknowledge Wonder whatsoever here. The train incident seems to be the outlier for their behavior, so it might have something to do with them being a "phantom" that time and maybe not the others.

Also, right before Cyler Eats comes by, Polter says "What's this?" about something on her phone screen. We know the MetaNav has been appearing randomly on people's phones, but we don't know why yet, and I have to wonder if that's what just happened to her. With the fact that they added Cyler Eats biking by as they're leaving Ashouken- right after meeting Shun- I'm starting to suspect maybe Cyler Eats might somehow be related to the MetaNav appearing, since they seem to be around right after it pops up onto someone's phone (though I'll admit I don't know exactly when it appeared on Shun's phone, but it could have been right then).

[p5x-theories]

@acesuperstar96 Oh, you think it's possible that there might be a story teammate currently hidden among the Phantom Idols? I've seen that suggested before as well, although it would mean the promotional content for that character has then actively lied to us by calling their Persona a "Persona II" instead, heh. It's not out of the question, though.

Since in the new trailer Polter seems to be confused about the metanav, this kind of kills the theory of her being "The Akechi" of the game, my second guess would be Enco. But what if he is actually the Haru instead? Rich kid in a bad situation due his parents, last team member and in the opening too. After all Akechi its a fan favorite, maybe they are saving some time before showing his counterpart (if the game has one)

I don't think it necessarily "kills" the theory? The roles are all loose ones, where there's a clear similarity but not identical. I think, if they wanted, they could absolutely still have her play an Akechi-like role, just without the two years of buildup. It's unlikely, and she's not my main "suspect" (so to speak) for the Akechi role, especially not after seeing that cutscene, but I don't think it's impossible. Assuming Riko does still join next, that gives at least one Palace where Polter could theoretically be entering the Metaverse before she's on the Wonder Squad's radar.

But that said, I am honestly leaning towards Polter being the "Futaba" and Enco being the "Haru" right now, haha. Their vibes give me those impressions, though Enco might be a bit of a colder/quieter Haru, and Polter might be a more artistic Futaba, so to speak.

[p5x-theories]

Not sure how exciting this is to anyone besides me, but apparently Sepia introduces himself when you pull him from the gacha, so Toshiya Sumi can now be confirmed as his real name!

[p5x-theories]

Since in the new trailer Polter seems to be confused about the metanav, this kind of kills the theory of her being "The Akechi" of the game, my second guess would be Enco. But what if he is actually the Haru instead? Rich kid in a bad situation due his parents, last team member and in the opening too. After all Akechi its a fan favorite, maybe they are saving some time before showing his counterpart (if the game has one)

I don't think it necessarily "kills" the theory? The roles are all loose ones, where there's a clear similarity but not identical. I think, if they wanted, they could absolutely still have her play an Akechi-like role, just without the two years of buildup. It's unlikely, and she's not my main "suspect" (so to speak) for the Akechi role, especially not after seeing that cutscene, but I don't think it's impossible. Assuming Riko does still join next, that gives at least one Palace where Polter could theoretically be entering the Metaverse before she's on the Wonder Squad's radar.

But that said, I am honestly leaning towards Polter being the "Futaba" and Enco being the "Haru" right now, haha. Their vibes give me those impressions, though Enco might be a bit of a colder/quieter Haru, and Polter might be a more artistic Futaba, so to speak.

[p5x-theories]

@complete-idiot-inc Yeah, that makes sense! I'll admit, I don't think I even noticed that it switched to the lyric version when he turns into Cupid, hah. Blooming Villain into a unique battle theme seems a lot more intentional.

It seems, at least in so far as the second boss, that they’re giving the bosses unique battle themes, Kiuchi has Last Strike and Miyazawa has a third version of Action!

Oh, neat! If Miyazawa has a special version of his own theme, it is a little odd that Kiuchi just has the instrumental version of one of the songs with lyrics, though, isn't it? I wonder if maybe the instrumental Last Strike is just a placeholder while they make a more unique one for him... Or maybe it'll be a recurring boss theme choice, and Miyazawa's the odd/incomplete one here?

[p5x-theories]

birthdays based off of this menu

motoha arai - april 10

kayo tomiyama - april 28

tomoko noge - may 1

yaoling li - may 20

[p5x-theories]

Since I've been able to play this beta myself, and also just because it seems like confusion occasionally crops up over the same topics, I've been thinking about making a few more posts to add to the updated pinned post after this beta.

I want to see if anyone would actually be interested in them before I go to the trouble, though, so:

Feel free to reply to this post with anything else you might want to see a post about, although I can't promise I'll be able to do everything.

(The P5 collab will get its own summary post, separate from the story summary, so no need to ask for that!)

[p5x-theories]

It seems, at least in so far as the second boss, that they’re giving the bosses unique battle themes, Kiuchi has Last Strike and Miyazawa has a third version of Action!

Oh, neat! If Miyazawa has a special version of his own theme, it is a little odd that Kiuchi just has the instrumental version of one of the songs with lyrics, though, isn't it? I wonder if maybe the instrumental Last Strike is just a placeholder while they make a more unique one for him... Or maybe it'll be a recurring boss theme choice, and Miyazawa's the odd/incomplete one here?

[p5x-theories]

there's also some sort of anime cutscene/teaser for polter / drawing girl! she has an encounter with cyler eats as well

Despite Faz's confusing video title, this is definitely a cutscene from the game, I assume one that just became available with the story + Bui update today based on the time the video was posted! I think he titled it "teaser" as in it's a scene that teases an upcoming Phantom Thief, hah.

That said, there's a couple interesting things about this cutscene. For one, Cyler Eats actually stops and puts out a hand possibly like they're trying to help her up or at least apologize, which is very different from the Cyler Eats that charged at Wonder on a train car. Does that have something to do with Cyler Eats being declared a "phantom" in relation to the train incident? Cyler Eats was also added briefly passing by Wonder and Cattle as they leave Ashouken after eating there, though they don't acknowledge Wonder whatsoever here. The train incident seems to be the outlier for their behavior, so it might have something to do with them being a "phantom" that time and maybe not the others.

Also, right before Cyler Eats comes by, Polter says "What's this?" about something on her phone screen. We know the MetaNav has been appearing randomly on people's phones, but we don't know why yet, and I have to wonder if that's what just happened to her. With the fact that they added Cyler Eats biking by as they're leaving Ashouken- right after meeting Shun- I'm starting to suspect maybe Cyler Eats might somehow be related to the MetaNav appearing, since they seem to be around right after it pops up onto someone's phone (though I'll admit I don't know exactly when it appeared on Shun's phone, but it could have been right then).

[p5x-theories]

I wanna say, that it is slightly concerning to see the Metaverse peaking into other apps, like when we see her plants start to die and how the show Wonder’s in game avatar being the one to go into the metaverse and not his real life self. Also I just wanna say that real life Yui is giving me major like Ichinose vibes. Low key wonder if she’s developing the farming game

(In reference to this promo video)

I'll admit, I took the sudden transition into the Metaverse in that video as more of an artistic transition than them actually directly entering the Metaverse from the game? I'm not entirely sure which of us is interpreting that correctly, though, now that you bring it up.

If they were able to enter the Metaverse directly from the game, though, I agree that's kind of weird and suspicious. I'm not sure what the repercussions of that might be... maybe that this game has something to do with the Metaverse, or at least its creator does? They're not literally in the game, it's just a mobile app they play, so could that mean entering they're entering the Metaverse through the game remotely triggering the MetaNav? Or does the game itself have some kind of "going to the Metaverse" function, where just the game avatars themselves, as part of the game, go into the Metaverse, and Wonder and Yui are still just playing on their phones as their avatars in the Metaverse?

Uh, all the above to say, I think the answer gets way more complicated if they are actually somehow entering the real Metaverse (or even a simulated one) within the game, heh. "Artistic transition" is at least the easier answer, whether or not it's the correct one.

It'd be neat if Yui herself is the one developing the farm game! There's certainly no evidence against that theory right now. I can see where you're coming from with the Ichinose vibe, although there do seem to be some notable differences between them if so, haha.