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perfectlypanda · 17 days ago

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Anon, would you also claim that Katara wouldn't like being CEO of a company because she would have employees taking care of menial but important tasks for her while she runs the company?

Is CEO Katara supposed to feel bad that she's taking a meeting with the head of a nonprofit to support their charitable work instead of being the one to personally mop the office bathrooms? Fans who enjoy the idea of Katara as queen don't imagine her as a Marie-Antoinette caricature who lounges around all day, they imagine her playing a very active political role co-ruling with Zuko, and thus being very busy. Katara wouldn't consider herself less compassionate for prioritizing things that only she can do if other tasks can be accomplished by someone else.

Servant is just another word for hired help. Servants, in the case of the royal palace, means positions like maids, cooks, repairmen, gardeners, plumbers, chauffeurs, groundskeepers, assistants, security officers, and more. No one would accuse someone of lacking compassion because they hire a gardener to water their plants. Can servants be treated badly? Yes, but bad bosses exist in every job. Provided that you aren't being forced into the job against your will, and the monarchs you are working for treat you with respect, then working as a servant in the royal palace could be a good job. It's stable employment, with likely above average pay compared to what you would get for doing similar work elsewhere. It's clear from the show that Katara would treat her servants with respect and kindness, and would not tolerant anyone else mistreating them either, so the palace during her reign would be a good place to work.

The Southern Water Tribe may not have a tradition of servants (aka hired help), but the Northern Water Tribe does, the Earth Kingdom does, and the Fire Nation does. The idea of employing servants is standard in the world of AtLA. Claiming Katara would see having servants as incompatible with her compassionate nature is reflective of the cultural practices the commenter is used to, not those that exist in the world which in Katara lives.

tl;dr - servant is another word for hired help, aka paying someone to provide you a service. Katara, as queen, would not think it's uncompassionate to hire an employee to do her laundry so that she can focus on using her political power to fix problems and improve the world.

I like the idea of zutara but I can’t really imagine Katara being able to accept being queen of the Fire Nation as Zuko’s wife. I don’t think Katara would like having servants and being waited on, considering how compassionate she is. In other words I can’t see zutara working out if Zuko is Fire Lord and she marries him when he’s Fire Lord. The whole royalty thing just goes against Katara’s character tbh

Your lack of imagination is not my problem. The nobility might make some noise about Fire Lady Katara, but the general population would love her, which is more important, I think. Also, as far as her not liking to have servants, why? Why would she not like having the chores that normally fell to her be someone else's job while she got to do more important stuff, like being a world leader? Why should she be against people making an honest living doing the things she doesn't want to do? As long as her servants were well paid and well treated (which they would be), I don't think she'd have a problem with having them around. She would be a very busy woman. You do realize that royalty- at least theoretically- are supposed to do more than sit around and be waited on, right?

#atla #atla meta #panda writes #zutara #I think it would take Katara a little getting used to but she wouldn't see it as going against her compassionate nature #Also loling at “Your lack of imagination is not my problem.”

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perfectlypanda · 2 months ago

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Someone was kind(?) enough to add a link this post in response to one of my own discussing the treatment of Katara in LoK, otherwise I likely wouldn't have come across it/ engaged with it. While your opinions on how Katara was depicted in LoK are your own, your post contains points that are misinterpretations of evidence within the show.

"Like Katara is explicitly mentioned to be involved in politics, to have been powerful enough to be the person to be solely credited with outlawing bloodbending."

Katara is brought up in relation to politics a single time, which is when Yakone blames Katara for getting bloodbending banned - "the most powerful and feared form of bending in the world. It was declared illegal thanks to that coward, Katara" (LoK 1.11). Regardless of if we take Yakone (an antagonist who is not exactly known for being truthful) at his word that Katara was heavily involved in getting bloodbending banned, this comment gives no indication that Katara was actively involved in politics beyond that single occurrence. During Yakone's trial, his attorney explicitly states that "the prosecution's entire case is built upon the make-believe notion that [Yakone] is able to bloodbend at will, at any time on any day." (1.09) If Katara is involved in politics and is genuinely "powerful enough to be the person solely credited with outlawing bloodbending", then why isn't Katara present at the trial of Yakone, when the crux of the argument that could see him sentenced for his crimes is about bloodbending? Katara lives in Republic City! If she's a well regarded politician from the city where the trial is taking place and is one of the few known bloodbenders in the world, then why isn't she there? Why isn't she being used as an expert witness? If LoK wanted to show Katara as politically active, this would have been the perfect opportunity to do so. Even just having Katara be present at the trial would have indicated her relevance within the political sphere, but she's no where to be found. Sokka, Aang, and Toph are given screen time at the trial, but not Katara, whose single mentioned political achievement is central to the court case.

"Her impact on Korra's life couldn't be understated she's one of the most important figures in Korra's life. She worked with the white lotus, but also didn't follow them blindly and she was willing to encourafe Korra to go up against them, kickstarting the show."

It's generous to say that Katara "was willing to encourafe [sic] Korra to go up against [the White Lotus]":

Korra: I have to leave. I have to find my own path as the Avatar. Katara: I know you do. Aang's time has passed. My brother and many of my friends are gone. It's time for you and your generation to take over the responsibility of keeping peace and balance in the world. And I think you're going to be a great Avatar.

Korra was in the process of running away so that she would be able to continue her training as Avatar. Katara provides some encouragement, but Korra had already made her decision about what she was going to do. Katara does play an important role in Korra's life, especially her young life, but as the show progresses, not much is made of this bond beyond Katara having been one of her teachers. For example, Korra doesn't frequently reflect on things Katara has told her in the way Korra does with conversations she has had with Tenzin. After leaving the South Pole, Katara is not actively an important figure in Korra's life, but within the context of the show and the function Katara plays in it, when they do interact it's clear they have a strong, positive bond (some particularly touching scenes in 4.02).

She took part in the Civil War on the side of the South, healing fighters and creating a base of operations for the rebels.

Katara makes a single appearance between the start and end of the Civil War arc - one scene in 2.12 (her appearances in 2.14 occur after the conclusion of the final battle, and are lineless). If Katara is so politically relevant to the South Pole, then why is she completely absent from any incidents related to the Civil War? If Katara is so politically relevant then why did no one, not even Korra and her family, invite her to the meeting with other Southerners at Tonraq's house to discuss the situation (2.03)? Where was Katara at the trial of Tonraq and the other Southern rebels (2.04)? If Katara is so politically relevant, then why did none of the characters ever ask Katara her opinion of the situation and what they should do? If Katara is so politically important to the SWT, then why did the North not prioritize trying to sway her to their side or target her to keep her from speaking out? If Katara knows that she holds political importance, then why didn't she leverage this to speak out against the North's occupation of her home?

Katara is shown working as a healer, this is true. There is nothing to substantiate the claim that Katara "creat[ed] a base of operations for the rebels". When Korra and the others arrive at the White Lotus Compound, Senna tells Korra that "Unalaq wiped out the entire southern resistance, and captured your father." (2.12) Katara is never mentioned as playing any role in this. Upon arriving, none of the group discusses with Katara the events that have occurred in the war or any plans for next steps, which would be an obvious course of action if Katara were in any sort of leadership position within the rebels. They drop off Jinora in hopes that Katara can heal her (which she doesn't), and then they leave to go fight Unalaq.

"She was the only person at the centre of the ceremony of Tonraq becoming chief that wasn't directly involved with the battle at Harmonic Convergence, which probably implies at least Some Political relavance idk."

Nothing is ever said implicitly or explicitly about why Katara is on stage at Tonraq's ceremony. It could be because she has "at least Some Political relavance[sic]" of her own, but it could just as plausibly be based on her status as the wife of the former avatar, or because she is the waterbending master of the current avatar, or is a former chief's daughter, or is a former chief's sister. Not enough information is given to be able to come to a definitive conclusion.

"bUt ZUkO anD tOPh gOT to FiGhT!" Zuko had like 2 mediocre action scenes and got his ass handed to him almost immediately and proceeded to peace out right before the final battle.

Phrasing it as Zuko "peace[d] out right before the final battle" is a weird way to express that Zuko apologized for not being able to assist Korra because he was going home to ensure the safety of his own daughter, who is a world head of state (3.11):

Zuko: I'm sorry, but I can't. I'm going back to the Fire Nation. If it's true that the Red Lotus is targeting the nations' leaders, I need to protect my daughter. Korra: I understand. You have to keep the Fire Lord safe.

"Zuko had like 2 mediocre action scenes and got his ass handed to him almost immediately". So despite no longer being Fire Lord, Zuko is still heavily involved in international affairs, and after Zuko realized that a group of incredibly powerful and dangerous criminals were breaking out of the jails created for them, he went to check the remaining prisons and prisoners, and when an escape was attempted Zuko tried to stop it? The point wasn't if Zuko won the fight, but that he tried to do right thing despite the fact that he was at a big disadvantage.

Whereas when Katara's home is invaded and plunged into a Civil War, Katara is just... absent? The Katara shown in AtLA would have fought tooth and nail to save her home. So why isn't she? Regardless of how effective Zuko's attempts were, he still stood up for what he thought was right. That's why Katara not fighting gets called out. If none of the Gaang fought because they were "too old" (even though there is plenty of precedent set in AtLA that older people are still capable of participating in combat. King Bumi was 112 during the liberation of Ba Sing Se), then it would be disappointing but consistent. That Zuko and Toph fight creates a problem as to why Katara doesn't. Even a throwaway line could have helped with this ("Katara wishes she could be on the frontlines with us, but the hospital is so crowded that they need every healer they have"/ "Katara has gone to see if she can rally any forces from the Southerners who live outside the SWT capitol").

Toph beat up an ex paraplegic (whom KATARA healed might I add) and bullied her a bit and then got one good hit in on foes that didn't even know she was there.

Katara didn't heal Korra. Katara absolutely did make commendable progress with Korra, but she did not heal her. After two years of work, Korra had regained mobility, but her bending was weak, and Korra is discouraged enough that she runs away - lying to everyone that she is going back to Republic City. Within a day of Korra finding Toph, Toph has identified the true cause of Korra's problem - there is still poisonous metal in her body. Toph attempts to remove it, and recognizes that Korra has some unprocessed psychological trauma that is holding her back. Similarly to how Aang needed tough love to learn earthbending in "Bitter Work" (AtLA 2.09), Korra was at the point where she needed some of Toph's tough love (as opposed to Katara's gentle encouragement). If Toph hadn't "bullied" Korra into facing the psychological burdens she was carrying, then Korra never would have healed physically or mentally. Toph is equally as responsible for aiding in Korra's recovery as Katara is.

Big whoop. Frankly, their inclusions were so clunky and clumsy and clearly there just because people were bitching about not getting the rest of the Gaang, that I much perfer Katara's organic and actually meaningful inclusion in the show.

This paragraph delves into your personal opinions regarding Zuko, Toph, and Katara's inclusions in the show, so I'm not going to comment on that aspect. Personally, I would have preferred an Avatar show where the Gaang wasn't featured or mentioned at all, but alas..

"bUT thE stATue...!" Please remember that in B1 and B2, when we see most of the statues, they are there because the rest of the Gaang don't appear, or are Dead. The doylist explanation of thos complaint is that Katara was actually present in the show, so the others got to be there as statues. Post B2, we actually don't spend as much time in Republic City, and the only new statues we uncover are the ones of Toph in Zaofu, which makes sense and is narratively significant. I would've loved to ahve seen Katara get a statue, but the reason she didn't get a statue isn't because she's being sidelined by the creators, its technically the other way around..

The problem with a doylist explanation is that it doesn't function as an explanation within the world of the show. No matter what external factors influenced a creative decision, a text can only really be judged and analyzed based on its actual content. Although it seems pedantic, the frequent “why didn’t Katara get a statue too?” complaint is really a reflection of Katara's accomplishments being downplayed in LoK. Aang, Zuko, Sokka, and Toph all have statues featured prominently in Republic City. Cities don’t just put up statues dedicated to any random person, they’re reserved for people worthy of note. So by giving Aang, Zuko, Sokka, and Toph statues, LoK signals that these characters did important things with their lives that had a big, positive impact on people. By omitting a Katara statue, LoK implies, intentionally or unintentionally, that unlike her friends, Katara didn’t do anything important enough in her life to merit a statue commemorating her or her accomplishments.

Like is the "victimized housewife" narrative so much more appealing to you guys than the "accomplished politician, martial arts teacher and woman in stem" storyline we got because that is so Depressing and, frankly, creepy.

An "accomplished politician, martial arts teacher and woman in stem" storyline for Katara would have been great! But it isn't what LoK gave us. Aside from a single line blaming Katara for banning bloodbending, there is no evidence to suggest Katara played any role in politics. The show does make clear that Katara was Korra's waterbending master. It would have been nice to actually see some evidence of Katara's prowess as a martial arts master, not just scenes where she is using waterbending to heal, but the show does firmly establish that she was Korra's instructor. STEM stands for Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics. Katara doesn't engage in any of those things. Unless, you mean to say that Katara is a "woman in stem" because of her role as a healer? Women being in STEM is usually celebrated because it's about women being a part of fields that historically weren't open to them. In AtLA, healing is considered women's work (and is the only waterbending that women are allowed to learn in the North), so Katara being a healer in LoK is actually a return to the patriarchal gender role that Katara fought so hard against in AtLA.

If AtLA did not exist, only LoK, then Katara's portrayal as Korra's aging mentor is perfectly fine. But AtLA does exist, and it features a Katara who is passionate, and brave, who wants more than anything to become a master waterbender, and who will never, ever turn her back on people who need her. For those of us who are big Katara fans, LoK's depiction of Katara was disappointing because it doesn't fit with the amazing potential Katara had in AtLA.

(If you're interested in a more in depth analysis of Katara's character between AtLA and LoK, I highly recommend Araeph's "Katara: Consumed by Destiny" essay series).

Honestly the whole "Katara got erased and had no accomplishments post canon/ Katara was just a healer-wife" thing is exhausting because its blatantly false and I'm TIRED of people completely ignoring her accomplishments instead of celebrating them

Like Katara is explicitly mentioned to be involved in politics, to have been powerful enough to be the person to be solely credited with outlawing bloodbending. Her impact on Korra's life couldn't be understated she's one of the most important figures in Korra's life. She worked with the white lotus, but also didn't follow them blindly and she was willing to encourafe Korra to go up against them, kickstarting the show. She took part in the Civil War on the side of the South, healing fighters and creating a base of operations for the rebels. She was the only person at the centre of the ceremony of Tonraq becoming chief that wasn't directly involved with the battle at Harmonic Convergence, which probably implies at least Some Political relavance idk.

Like why is that all tossed into the garbage can? For what? Like why are we so obsessed with this woman having a bad time and being so mistreated does it get you guys off or something.

"bUt ZUkO anD tOPh gOT to FiGhT!" Zuko had like 2 mediocre action scenes and got his ass handed to him almost immediately and proceeded to peace out right before the final battle. Toph beat up an ex paraplegic (whom KATARA healed might I add) and bullied her a bit and then got one good hit in on foes that didn't even know she was there. Big whoop. Frankly, their inclusions were so clunky and clumsy and clearly there just because people were bitching about not getting the rest of the Gaang, that I much perfer Katara's organic and actually meaningful inclusion in the show.

#katara deserved better #katara deserves better #lok #lok critique #atla #in this house we stan Katara

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