prfssnlshipper

[prfssnlshipper]

Hi so I showed this screenshot to my therapist just to hear her take on it and she said she respectfully disagreed lol

She said some of what she said last time this topic came up, about how even in a traumatic situation like an abusive relationship, there can be conflicting feelings and even positive ones, like the love you might've felt before for the person who ended up hurting you. And that if you can experience complicated emotions from it in real life, you should be able to explore that in fiction

She basically said "you're not writing a manual, this is FICTION, go crazy" lol

And I told her about one of my fics and described it as rapey but also horny and she talked about how it be like that sometimes when you've been through trauma like that it could result in hypersexuality and more weird conflicting feelings around sex and things like a cnc kink (but she did say she's not a sex therapist so y'know)

She also said she had one child client who used the little dolls and figures in her room to take their anger out on, because they were being bullied at school and it helps to have an outlet to get those feelings out without hurting anyone in real life, which is similar to the whole writing thing

But in the end I added "but hey it's not one-size-fits-all and this won't be the perfect solution for everyone" and she agreed so there you go

[prfssnlshipper]

Someone asked me how I don't let antis make me feel guilty for shipping what I do.

And to be honest I have felt guilty and worried myself back and forth for years. I think I just finally realised that if I was truly a horrible person who would condone or do these things irl, I wouldn't feel guilty or worried that antis may be right and I could suddenly think it's okay just cause I like it in fiction.

I know my own morality, I have let myself stop thinking, "this is bad cause it's illegal", and unpack the reason why things are bad. Cause it hurts someone, cause there's a victim. It's bad cause of that, not cause a law says so or cause it's disgusting. And so it can't apply to fiction.

It proved to me that no matter what antis say, I'd never be convinced it's okay. It made me realise I know my own morality, I know what kind of person I am. And no one else does.

Thought crimes aren't real, they never have been and never will be. And as someone who has struggled with violent and sexual intrusive thoughts, I have found they've lessened since I've explored these topics in fiction and I am no longer having such thoughts about people I actually know and instead can project them on characters.

I know it's given me a healthier outlet, that I have unpacked what I see as right and wrong. And I'm not going to let anyone make me feel guilty or worse about myself for dealing with my thoughts in a healthy, creative manner.

Don't feel guilty for your taste in fiction.

[prfssnlshipper]

first of all, thank you so much for giving an actual answer!

trust me, i get the idea of reality ≠ fiction and that not all darkshippers are romanticizing things. im #1 villain lover ever and ship toxic shit all the time.

i just. genuinely don't know anymore.

i have a lot of uncomfortable feelings surrounding proships and darkships, but id technically be a comshipper / doveshipper!

at this point i think trying to "label" it or say whats right and wrong is more harmful than just blocking (at least for me.)

so while i won't be calling myself a proshipper anytime soon, i appreciate being able to hear a side ive never heard before! thank you. :)

— some peacefic dude

You're very welcome! Thank you for reaching out and asking to learn more/hear more points of view 💜

It's okay to not know. It can take time to process/come to terms with the fact some of the stuff out there exists and also to fully internalize that even if it's uncomfortable or personally repulsive, it's not actually harming a real person if it's kept away from people uncomfortable with it. (Incidentally, I've never been exposed to dark content I'm uncomfortable with in proship communities, since it's tagged/has warnings so I can avoid what I don't like, but I HAVE been unwillingly exposed to uncomfortable content by antis trying to prove a point.)

But yeah, trying to label things can just cause a lot more stress. I think one of the challenges with labels, whether it's discourse stances or sexualities/genders, is that some people are under the impression that everyone under a label agrees with one another and has the same experiences. But the reality is that there are some differences in opinions among proshippers, so it's not a huge monolith and not everyone has to agree with each other on everything. It's mostly about the agreement to support people shipping what they'd like. But a lot of people have that opinion without labeling themselves as proshippers as well.

I want to make one note that "proships" are not a type of ship, since "proship" doesn't stand for "problematic ship" -- that's a misconception. The term only came out of opposition to the term "anti-ship" (or "anti"). The "pro" in "proship" is "in favor of", or to support shipping. (Similar to the "pro" in "pro choice".) So it's only an adjective for people and not a type of ship.

But yeah, you definitely don't have to call yourself a proshipper. Thank you for being willing to listen anyway! And you're always welcome to ask more questions if you ever want to.

[prfssnlshipper]

Sometimes I think that Antis kind of hate CSEM because they think it's gross. When...it's bad because it further victimizes a child, a real child. Consuming CSEM is inherently exploitative and further perpetuates the abuse against the child. Same goes for bestiality. They just "think it's gross".

No it's bad because someone or an animal gets HARMED in the production or in the consumption of it.

And that's why I don't believe antis when they say "Antis care about kids, proshippers don't!" You guys flood the CSEM tip line with material the FBI already says to stop reporting. You are WASTING time and effort to investigate these "tips" and feeling good about yourselves. You also claim that, in some callouts you post, that some proshippers draw what you deem CSEM (often incorrectly labeled CP). Did you know that if it WAS CSEM, you would go to prison? Reposting CSEM in any form, even for awareness is a CRIME. Even having on your phone is a crime.

If you cared about children, you'd encourage the creation of spaces for them, you'd actually take time not to expose them to inappropriate material, as well as not send violent harassment mobs after minor proshippers.

When I was a minor online, I witnessed so many minors being harassed into self-harm and suicide because people who kept screaming "WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS" leaked their addresses to pedophiles and spammed them with death threats and rape threats. Kids as young as 13 were and still are receiving vile threats that make even me as a 22 year old feel sick.

If you care about kids, then look at yourself. Look at your actions. See if you really care or if you're only doing it to make yourself feel good.

[prfssnlshipper]

uh hi, just wanna ask something about proship and all that jazz .

im anti hara for a reason: i just block people if i don't like something, but im deeply uncomfortable with certain ships and the romanization of complex topics.

i feel like a lot of darkshippers (saying that to not generalize) are doing it for coping reasons, but some definitely seem groomed into it.

so i just. don't know what i am?? i consider myself unaligned but not neutral. im DEFINITELY not neutral about lolicons.

but also, if proshipping IS about letting people ship what they want, does that extend to fully romanticizing very complex and/or sensitive topics? (i am very particular about terms and their "proper" use)

thats all! im very open about hearing both sides, but i can't deal with certain things being seen as "good" or "hot" when i lived through them and they weren't.

Hello! Sorry for getting to this late, I wanted to spend some time to think about how to answer.

For one thing, I'll say that dark shipping is not necessarily always the same as romanticizing the topics involved. This is where the line between fiction and reality needs to be drawn. I would say that fully romanticizing a topic would mean glorifying it happening in reality. The context of the ship and of the fictional content is important.

To give an analogy, it's like if someone really loves FPS (First Person Shooter) games. Like, they go home after school/work and play FPS games every day. Maybe they like all FPS games just because the mechanics of shooting a character on screen happens to be fun for them. This doesn't mean they think shooting a real gun at living beings in real life is fun. But shooting things in the context of fiction may be fun.

So I'd say that's the first thing to know about dark shipping or about being proship -- it's distinguishing that people can and do enjoy things in fiction that they could even be disgusted by in real life.

The second thing is that it's about separating oneself from what they see in front of them, even if it's "relatable". It can feel like a personal "attack", where if someone finds something "good" or "hot" in fiction, that feels like it means they would think that happening to you in real life was "good" or "hot". But that's not the case.

Like using the example from earlier, let's say someone has been shot before. Then, if they met the FPS fan, even though this person loves FPS games, if they found out what happened to the real person in front of them, it's likely they would be horrified. Because something terrible happening in fiction is one thing, but a terrible thing happening to a real person IS horrific.

And the third thing is just that it's completely valid to still be uncomfortable with certain topics, and it's also important to recognize that discomfort doesn't make something immoral.

Like, you shouldn't have to "deal with" anything that makes you uncomfortable. That's why blacklisting triggering topics is important. But if you run into someone talking about enjoying that content (in fiction), the best thing is to move on. It's uncomfortable, but that doesn't make them a horrible person. (If they didn't tag their content appropriately that's a different story, but social media does also deserve some blame for sometimes showing posts to people they weren't intended for.)

If you imagine someone close to you that has always advocated for you and you KNOW they don't support anything harmful happening to real people, especially whatever you went through, and then you one day learn they like some dark fictional content, that doesn't mean their support was fake. If they continue advocating for you and make sure not to discuss things you're uncomfortable with around you, then that's what shows how they feel about those things happening in real life. Not their fictional tastes.

That's all that being proship is about. There's definitely content I never want to see in my life that would probably disgust me, but I know that it doesn't mean the people making it are inherently immoral. I'll base that judgement on their actions toward real people.

[prfssnlshipper]

I don’t really understand the shift the Internet has seemed to have about kink and proshipping. In the early to mid 2010’s it was common to see people defend rape kinks and “bizarre” fetishes. We had the “violence in video games” debate in the 2000’s. It seemed like we were on the same page but something changed.

Why is it we all understood the concept fine but now it’s so heavily debated? There hasn’t been a rise in sex crimes, at least not correlated to kink/proship content. What’s the deal?

[prfssnlshipper]

depiction is not the same as glorification and I need people to get that 

[prfssnlshipper]

[prfssnlshipper]

“Do you ship...” Buddy I will ship almost anything if I think about it too long. I love love and situations

[prfssnlshipper]

I'm not okay. Took a mental health day to do my part and make some art about it. No matter the opposition, we won't be erased. A world without trans people has never existed, and it never will! 🏳️‍⚧️

May this piece be a small light in the darkness for those in need of comfort and hope. Feel free to share/re-post elsewhere if this resonates with you. Just please make sure you include the alt text!

[prfssnlshipper]

i think my most woke take is that saying you’re not proship because you are “an adult and have a job” is directly tying someone’s (and your own) worth to whether or not they have a job.

you’re almost saying that you’re less-than if you are unemployed, and that your opinions are worth more than someone else’s purely based on that, and I just think that’s odd!

not to mention infantilizing and talking down to other adults who care about fandom

[prfssnlshipper]

These two asks are so similar that I'm just putting them in one post--

First off, honestly, I am totally okay with antis following me. I won't follow back, but if an anti is willing to follow me despite me posting proship discourse, then feel free. I think it's a good way to learn more about the "other" side -- especially since there are quite a few people that call themselves antis despite having proship positions/opinions.

Case in point, anon, if you are against harassing people for fictional things, then that is the definition of proship. I won't tell anyone how to label themselves of course, but all proshippers want is for people to be able to freely enjoy the content/media they want without being harassed/morally judged for it.

There's a lot of misinformation about "proshippers" vs "antis" out there, and if following me helps clear anything up, I'm happy to have anyone follow me.

[prfssnlshipper]

Did you know you're really cool?

Aww, well thank you! You're pretty cool yourself <3

[prfssnlshipper]

Can a minor be a MAP? No need to answer if you feel umcomfy with the question!

MAP = "minor attracted person"

Any minor SHOULD be attracted to other minors. But the term MAP doesn't need to be applied to them, and shouldn't be, because the default assumption should be that minors are attracted to other minors.

Also if minors were to call themselves MAPs, I imagine it would make it more difficult to quickly identify actual MAPs, who are adults, and that would be a problem.

[prfssnlshipper]

?? what the fuck is a bi lesbian lmao kys

Potentially nsfw text (depending on how you read this)

This could either be like "fuck! a bi lesbian!" or "fuck a bi lesbian"

Anyway.

A bi lesbian is simply a person who identifies as both bi and a lesbian. This could be because of the SAM (split attraction model), just leaning more toward being a lesbian but still feeling bi, a lesbian having a trans partner and wanting to acknowledge their gender change, or many other reasons.

Pretty straightforward.

[prfssnlshipper]

💕💞💕If you see this you’re loved and respected as a proshipper! Every ship you have is valid and everyone is cheering for you! Ignore the antis you’re loved regardless! If you want to copy and paste this into 10 other proshippers inboxes!! You’re amazing and of course don't have to💕💞💕

This is so sweet, thank you, anon! 💖

[prfssnlshipper]

I'm unsure if I vibe with the proshipper terminology yet (I'm not entirely sure what it means. Is there a carrd for it?) but I adore your energy with those assholes so <33 Have a nice day!! <3333

That's totally fair! Thank you so much! <3

As for what proshipper means, it's really just about supporting the idea that people can ship whatever they'd like. It's acknowledging that a person can ship incest, for example, without condoning it in real life. (Other examples may be shipping age gaps, "abusive" ships, or... really anything.) Not everyone who's proship actually likes content like that, many actually are uncomfortable with it and avoid those ships or content. But proshippers just don't deem people as inherently bad for liking content like that.

I hope that makes sense!