prmcafwh

[prmcafwh]

I love how we have collectively decided these are The Henry Winter Glasses when canonically he wears little round geeky Harry Potter glasses but as always We Know Better

You know you need to touch some grass when you see this pair of glasses and think of Henry Winter.

that happened to me five minutes ago so obviously I came here. Another reason to touch grass

[prmcafwh]

Guys I don’t want to be controversial or anything but I’ve never understood why ppl are so obsessed with TSH in a “dark academia” way… like I get that it’s recognized as "the first dark academia novel" but like I don’t really see it why thats ALL it's chalked up to? 😭😭 ppl always associate it with tweed jackets and deep oak wood... and like yeah... but they were also literally doing cocaine in a burger king parking lot like what

people think it's so "autumnal aesthetic" but honestly when I think back on the novel I mostly imagine the summer up in the cabin before they killed bunny so maybe thats why I see it differently

Richard aestheticized and romanticized the greek students to irrational degrees and we are NOT supposed to be like Richard guys !!

[prmcafwh]

Personally I believe Henry Winter isn't gay and we as a fandom should just accept that. He's already a tall dark-haired rich suit-wearing mysterious pseudo-intellectual murderer with a troubled past. I think we can forgive this one flaw. Nobody's perfect.

[prmcafwh]

love it when people make posts about how Bunny was the only member of the greek class to hold them to reality because he was so much less pretentious and elitist than the others. Those posters are so, so right!

I mean, who could forget this classic Bunny Corcoran quote?

“It’s a horrible thing to tell your kids that money’s the only thing in the world, but it’s a disgrace to work for it."

oh shit, wait. Sorry, that wasn't Bunny, it was Charles. You know how easy it is to mix up these blond guys. One sec, I know I have a Bunny Corcoran quote where he calls out his wealthy friends on their privilege, it's right here-

“He doesn’t have to go to school. He can do whatever he fucking pleases. He can fail every single fucking class and his dad’ll still send him that fat allowance check every month—”

fuck, sorry. Sorry! That's not Bunny either, it's Charles again.

Okay, okay, I'm sure the next quote is Bunny! He's going to tell us all about how salt-of-the-earth he is, just watch-

“Naw. This is the East Coast, boy. I know they’re pretty laissez-faire about dress in your neck of the woods, but back here they don’t let you run around in your bathing suit all year long. Blacks and blues, that’s the ticket, blacks and blues.��"

Okay, wait, sorry, so embarrassing, that's not the quote I meant to choose. It doesn't really represent Bunny anyway- it's probably just one of those times Richard made shit up to make him look worse. My unpretentious comrade Bunny Corcoran wouldn't shame a classmate for not following his closely prescribed dress code.

Okay, okay, here! In this scene Henry is going to tell us about how proletariat Bunny is, I'm so sure of it.

"He sulked for days, feigning asthma attacks, moping around and honking at his inhaler and nagging me constantly—accusing me of being cheap, and so forth, and when he traveled he liked to do it right—"

oh, god damn it.

[prmcafwh]

love it when people make posts about how Bunny was the only member of the greek class to hold them to reality because he was so much less pretentious and elitist than the others. Those posters are so, so right!

I mean, who could forget this classic Bunny Corcoran quote?

“It’s a horrible thing to tell your kids that money’s the only thing in the world, but it’s a disgrace to work for it."

oh shit, wait. Sorry, that wasn't Bunny, it was Charles. You know how easy it is to mix up these blond guys. One sec, I know I have a Bunny Corcoran quote where he calls out his wealthy friends on their privilege, it's right here-

“He doesn’t have to go to school. He can do whatever he fucking pleases. He can fail every single fucking class and his dad’ll still send him that fat allowance check every month—”

fuck, sorry. Sorry! That's not Bunny either, it's Charles again.

Okay, okay, I'm sure the next quote is Bunny! He's going to tell us all about how salt-of-the-earth he is, just watch-

“Naw. This is the East Coast, boy. I know they’re pretty laissez-faire about dress in your neck of the woods, but back here they don’t let you run around in your bathing suit all year long. Blacks and blues, that’s the ticket, blacks and blues.…"

Okay, wait, sorry, so embarrassing, that's not the quote I meant to choose. It doesn't really represent Bunny anyway- it's probably just one of those times Richard made shit up to make him look worse. My unpretentious comrade Bunny Corcoran wouldn't shame a classmate for not following his closely prescribed dress code.

Okay, okay, here! In this scene Henry is going to tell us about how proletariat Bunny is, I'm so sure of it.

"He sulked for days, feigning asthma attacks, moping around and honking at his inhaler and nagging me constantly—accusing me of being cheap, and so forth, and when he traveled he liked to do it right—"

oh, god damn it.

[prmcafwh]

I don't think I'll ever stop finding it suspicious that Henry started living with Camilla after she got out of that situation with Charles, Henry knew what she went through and he just started living with her not to mention it was hinted they had sex, it doesn't matter she consented that girl was not alright and it's completely fair to assume he took advantage of her, plus it was also hinted if things went south he was willing to blame it all on Richard, like he made it write down the whole mushroom thing and you can't convince me he wasn't planning to hold it as blackmail against him.

We can love him and appreciate his character, but having an excuse and an explanation ready for everything he's done and orchestrated and every fault of his is kinda too much idk (pls don't get angry at me lol I swear I'm not doing it in bad faith we're just having fun talking about a character we love don't be mad at me ily 😭)

I'm not mad at you. I just can't stand when people misinterpret obvious points. I've talked about Henry's and Camilla's relationship before and while Camilla was a victim of Charles, it's not fair not to give her any agency and pretend Henry was a mastermind who manipulated her. "It doesn't matter if she consented"? Seriously?! Maybe they genuinely liked each other and she couldn't stand Charles' abuse anymore, ever thought of her feelings or what she might've wanted? I doubt Henry forced her to spend time with him. I'm not saying they weren't both messed up. But you're being Richard when he thought Henry was abusing Camilla and also felt the urge to see her frail and abused and it turned out to be Charles who was abusing her.

I'm not making excuses for his every action, obviously he murdered someone and did other things. I'm saying it's misinterpreting the character and his actions if we're pretending he didn't love anyone and that he was a natural manipulator who was good at it. Or even that smart when it came to how to get away with murder, he could be but didn't even put that much thought into it and was very affected by Bunny's death. And if we go down the "what might've happened" or "what he was maybe probably hypothetically thinking" route, then other characters can be worse too.

[prmcafwh]

*taps mic* All right I'll say this quickly before security kicks me out.

There'snothingwrongwithhenrymillayoujusthatethemcausethey'restraight.

...

They'realsodefinitelycanon.

That's all good night.

[prmcafwh]

You just know Richard watched Dead Poets Society when it first came out in the theaters and looked at Neil Perry and thought 'I'm so him'. Meanwhile we all know he's Todd Anderson

[prmcafwh]

let me get this straight. francis is:

gay

catholic

ginger

mentally ill

involved in multiple murders

the only one serving cunt in his friend group

in the 80s

pick a struggle dude

[prmcafwh]

Francis and Charles were both just using each other. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[prmcafwh]

Thinking about Henry casually saying 'Quel plaisir de vous revoir' to the professor he roasted in front of the entire school. Absolute king

[prmcafwh]

The Bunny apologism is insane. 'It was only reasonable to be upset about the murder' - Bunny was not upset. He was nearing a psychotic break. I'm not saying he didn't disapprove of the murder, because I do think he was more grounded than the rest of the Greek class and that that's sort of the point of his character. But he was also upset for the wrong reasons and dealing with it terribly. Even Richard says if he wanted revenge he could've had it easily. And if he wanted justice he could've turned them in. Instead he went insane and used the situation to his own advantage.

And just because he was upset about the murder doesn't suddenly make him a saint. Maybe his wrongdoings were of a pettier, more trivial sort, but they were stil wrong.

And also I could go on and on about how unfair it is that the rest of the class are brushed off as cold emotionless sociopaths: they were all (except Henry) upset in their own ways and you can clearly see that in the second part of the book. Richard spiraled into drugs. Francis's hypochondria spiraled into an anxiety disorder. Charles spiraled into a full-blown alcoholic domestic abuser. Camilla was upset too, in her own way. They all were. Bunny was not the only one who cared about the murder.

And what if I said Bunny is not the voice of morality in the book because he was just as morally corrupt as others in a different way.

He didn’t care about death of the farmer that much, he cared more what hysterical play he could stage so he could get something out of it like a child throwing a tantrum to get what he wants.

I'd get blackmailing Henry if he needed money urgently, but no, he used Henry to go on a luxury trip in Italy. What screams I care about the life you possibly took more than that.

Bunny was not planning to turn Henry in, he didn't care about justice, because as always, he planned to use him in a malevolent way instead of asking for things nicely, in which case Henry would have agreed to do things for him anyway with much less resentment.

None of them cared enough about taking a life. If we go down the route of "Well, at least Bunny cared that they killed someone in some way", then reread the book to find that others felt guilty and were shaken up too in their own ways. Which only amplified after Bunny's death and they fell apart. Henry's "redistribution of matter" isn't fooling anyone, actions speak louder than words. Bunny’s "morality protest" was just the loudest, and the most performative.

If Henry's fetal flaw/mortal sin is Hubris/pride, Bunny’s is gluttony, greed and sloth.

[prmcafwh]

If I were Henry Winter, I'd be confused too about the crashaout the Greek class had.

Oh, now you wanna have morals, sisterfucker/abuser?

Now you wanna be nervous about ethics, Mr. Get An Alcoholic Drunk So I Can Have A Quick Fuck With Dubious Consent?

You wanna have a hysterical fit one second and extort money from me the next, Mr. Felon Manchild?

You people do awful stuff every day, but when I accidently kill one guy when I was heavily inebriated and out of my mind, I'm suddenly evil incarnate and you're all Father Abraham's lambs? As if you weren't all down for that orgy ritual, stop lying. Fake friends. Fine, I'll turn myself in if you all will too for everything you did. *Silence.* That's what I thought.

[prmcafwh]

day 130 of seeing the fandom say absolutely crazy shit about camilla. this is what happens when you consume media without any other lens except for this weird brand of uwu feminism where women can only be evil in a certain girlbossy way, never in a disgusting (and I mean TRULY disgusting, male-centric way), where they are only ever victims because of their “girlhood”. can you believe what I saw today? that apparently everyone in the group is a rapist because they raped her during the bacchanal! forget the fact that the entire group was high out of their minds, forget the fact that camilla is a smart enough girl to know what a bacchanal is and she’s strong enough to make her own decisions to participate (she would actually be more willing to participate in fucked up shit compared to charles!) i am just constantly disappointed and baffled by how they dumb her down in an attempt to make her seem more passive? pretending she’s above using her charm to manipulate the guys around her? apparently even bunny has done her wrong sexually because he didn’t “protect” her from charles’ incestous advances. why would he have?! it was consensual?????????? i am genuinely lost as to how the fandom has lost the plot with this one woman character. they keep claiming we’ll never know camilla because of richard. YOU ARE RICHARD! you are obsessed with victimizing her and then sexualizing this victimization! once I even saw someone claim JULIAN had victimized camilla?! they are obsessed with this narrative that every male who ever had contact with camilla raped her or sexually abused her and I’m beginning to think it’s because they can’t think of a fem character in any other way. she just HAS to be sexual or sexualized or a victim because she’s an uwu girl. no decision she takes is ever her own and no crime she commits is ever malicious because she’s ‘just a girl’ (and I hate this awful trend too). I’m sending this to you on anon because you’re the only one who won’t call me a misogynist rape apologizing male centrist (something I’ve been called before by this wonderful community for suggesting camilla was not the ‘ultimate’ victim. she is a victim don’t get me wrong but only of charles and ONLY after he’s blackout drunk.) anyway. I like your blog. I wish I’d found it before.

WHAT

aww thanku for the compliment

HOLD ON A MINUTE THOUGH. (cracks knuckles)

WHATTTT I AM SO GAD I AHVENT SEEN THIS THOERY BECUA E WHAT DO YOU MEAAAN WHAT DO YOU EMAN THEYRE ALL RAPOST!?!?!?!?!

OK wait let me chill Out for a sec and think abt thsi. Saur My brainneeds to section things so I'll just make a list ok

GANG SA? i,m assumign theyre going with the SA thing bcs she *was a deer* and they all remembered chasing one...? THO idk how that transglates into her being SA'd 🗿💔💔 i guess to each their own interpreatation.............Personally i think its so easy to get wrapped up in these weird ahh headcanons if u don't rlly gaf about the classical contextt behidn the story...? Let me begin with the deer: UNRELATED TO BACCHUS -> Deer are sacred to Artemis and as we all know she is aka the huntress. Deer, hunt.......Deer, huntress.....possible allusion to the Goddess? PERHAPS. U kno...I have a crazy theory abt purrhaps this being a sign that they were led to 'hunt' the farmer. That's crazy. Anyway. RELATED TO BACCHUS -> sauuurrr wild animals lowkey depict wilderness and dreedom and ecstasy for Bacchus and his folowers. The deer is not Dionysus' animal tho 💔 at least not from what i rember like its a panther or a tiger lowkey. HOWWWWWEVER DEER SKIN IS RELATED TO HIS FOLLOWERS!!!!!!!!!! DO YOU KNOW ABOUT "NEBRIS"? It meansa deer/fawn skin! And Bacchus' female followrs the maeneads use to wear this during the rituals! Also Bacchic rituals dont even sacrific deer 😭😭 they sacrifc liek goats i thin. It was eihter goats or rams but not deer. Also SA is literally never a part of Bacchic myths ew. Prersonally im my opinoin Donna used this imagery for classical reasons and not to depict fucking gan g rape. Bruh. Within a Bacchic fraework this probs js means she felt wild and animalistic in the ritual. ORRR LICHERALLY that she simply entered a trance-like state?? There is no textual or even contectual evidence that she was SAd.

CONSENSUAL INCEsT? The incest was consensual and i belueve this strongly. i think poeple just put it all on charles because he is eazy to overlook and hate bcs of his abuse at the end but i d dont think thats a fair analyss of anythng......Look. Incesy themes are cosndiered gothic or whatevr and Donna Tartt mother of literature wrote evrything very precisely. WHy I dont believe the incest wasone sided is because Donna shows us a balance nd equalty b/w the sibs. - POWER IMBALANCE? Firsty they are literally twins so u take that age gap power imbalance away ok - CAMILLAS AGENCY? Secondy Ccamillas masculinity puts her on a somewhat equal footing WHEN IT COMES TO CHARLES (to Charles! Other men obv wouldnt see it this way) i wih i coudl explain it better but they are mirror images of one other.... Camillas masculinty is subtle and also a counterpoint to the vulnerable femininity people try to project onto her..She actualy isnt portrayed as meek or helpless by Donna EVEN in Richads's observation! She's emotionally controlled and calculated, ESPCIALLYYYYYY compared to her fuckass brother who goes off the deep end at evey little thgn. Camilla is not someone who doesn’t know how to say NO. She's not someon who bends over backwards to please ANY man around her please gie let her have some agency .... nd we also kno Camilla is more capable of cold and brutal decisions when it comes down 2 it….I am not saying this makes it impssible for her to be a victim to him OFC but I just dont see her as having 0 say in what she and Charles do…….. - DONNA TARTT'S DEPICTION OF MORAL COLLAPSE Literally its just to show moral collpase. LMFAO. Donna wanted to shwo moral collapse and consensual incest is RIGHT UP THERE with MURDER! - NARRATUVE SILENCE IS FOR AMBIGUITYYYYY....NAWWTTT VICTIMHOOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALOT of pople say ohhh we didnt hear Camilla say shit she was such a victim. WHAT. Miss Donna's entire NOVEL is abotu ambiguity girlfriend we actually dont hear a lot of them say anything except Miss Richard! And she's a liar! - Black and white Charles? many let Charles’s eventual abusiveness color their entire view of the relationship, instead of recognizing that his behaviour at the end is not the behavior he has normally BUT a literal breakdown in response to losing emotional access to her. Sheleaves his ass when he starts drinking anf this drinking makes him abusiev!!! HE LITERALLY BECAME AN ALCHOLOHIC AND YALL TALKNBG ABT "HE WAS ALWAYS LIKE THSI" LIKE WHaT????? - Projection of disgust obvi incest is fucking yuck because it is disturbing but disturbing doesnt mean nonconsensual. Morally wrong? Yes, but that doesnt automatically imply abuse.

Julian/Bnuy OH OH IVE SEEN THE JULIAN ONE! IDK WHAT IT MEANS. WHAT DID BRO DO (sorry nothing to addhere from my prepsective bcs i literally dont know what could have happened???) Maybe he asked her to read that poem once and she lowk has social anxity so he basically did a war crime (I am srs abt this tho profs who make u read shit out loud when they know u dont feel the vibe shoud be publicy executed kys) DONT EVEN GET ME FUCKING STARTED ON BUNNY??? TF HE DO??? Yes he sees two consenting adutls doing incest and freaks out and clams up abt it until they commit a fucking murde r bcs he couldnt snitch on them b4 bcs like it would mess up their whole group and honestly what tf would u do if u discovered two ppl in ur friend grp were investig...? LOL/ LEAVE HIM ALONE HE GETS ENOUGH SHIT AS IT IS

ARE YOU SEXIST MISOGYNIST EVIL BATSARD Im glad u aseked. Answer is:

No

and llike, dont worry gurl, I been called that once too for uhh...for analyzing bnnuy's relaitosnhip with marion..........anything gets u titled anything over here its fine.

I have acutally been meaning to discuss the issue with Camilla and Charles' depiction in this fandom but I was lowkey scared so....thanku for this ask anon! I get your frustration!

Ur totally right that some takes reduce Camilla to a passive object and Charles to a 1 dimensional predator. In a literary space these r lowkey ahistorical (bcs they dont take gothic + classical tropes into consid), anti-literary (they assume everything is a modern social allegory), and Im ngl theyre often condescending toward Camilla, who I admit is literally one of the most emotionally intelligent characters in the book

N I do belive that theories and headcanosn are, obvi, a to eahc their own kinda vibe. But if u take a theory that has no contextual evidence or smthn and start treatin it like canon u r bound to confuse and offend other readers maybe UBUT ALSO you will start getting offended when other readers dont take ur takes srsly. Bcs stuff like this is so charged (rape, incestual SA) that ppl just shut down and have visceral reactions (which is understabdale and normal). so i mean someone who believes in these theories might get mad at u for NOT believing in them or treating them as canon. At the end of the day bro we all jus gotta chill and ponder

[prmcafwh]

Throwback to when I was first reading TSH and Bunny stumbled to Richard's dorm and started hemming and hawing a premise and I was dense and clueless and I had no idea where it was going and it kinda sounded like he was about to stumble out of the closet so I literally wrote idk... is he gay? in the margins before going oh right. The murder. How did I forget about that

[prmcafwh]

thinking about 'François,' again......

[prmcafwh]

Every sorrow is a banal sorrow if you're nihilistic enough.