quoigenicfromhell

[quoigenicfromhell]

I had so much fun painting the wing eared cats that I painted some big cats too~ Maybe I'll paint foxes and wolves next :D

[quoigenicfromhell]

It's so wild because I have quibbles with the tulpa community(tm) (mostly how it's very host-centric and there's occasionally a weird undercurrent of ownership that seemingly has to be worked through by hosts who aren't used to sharing their life.

(this isn't unique to tulpa/willo folks, because our host had this issue too, but I find the intentional creation aspect to worsen this)

It occasionally makes me uncomfortable when willogenic headmates talk about themselves as property or like. Subordinate to the host, just because we went through that and realized what a deleterious effect it was having on our collective.

HOWEVER

that is MY ISSUE. if I'm uncomfortable that's something I have to work through or overcome and my feelings are not the fault of willogenic systems as a whole or even as individual systems! If you are uncomfortable or feel invalidated by willogenic systems that is a you problem, and not something you have to try to make into a syscourse movement. Fetch isn't going to happen, Gretchen, let people exist in the configuration that feels best to them. Claiming willogenic headmates are impossible as a pro-endo or Endo system is incomprehensible.

[quoigenicfromhell]

Y'all realize that the 'mancy' part is not the problematic part of 'tulpamancy'

[quoigenicfromhell]

This is one of those things that we feel like if someone who was of this opinion could just like. Sit in a restaurant and have lunch with an endogenic system they'd be disabused of pretty quickly.

Like no I'm not roleplaying [name] I'm [name] eating a fucking turkey sub sandwich and talking about a TV show we watched recently. You wouldn't know I'm a fictive if you just met me on the street. Sure, maybe some people here are more obvious about who they are than others or they've got some kind of vocal quirk but it's not like I'm going to be constantly talking about my canon/past or referencing it. Why the fuck would I? I'm a real human being experiencing life here right now.

Even if it's like, oh this person is Fresh fresh and is still kind of in their feelings about the whole fictive thing, you can still talk to them like a normal person. They'll still get their feelings hurt if you're a jerk or say something mean. They might get offended at something our host doesn't take offense to but that doesn't mean they aren't really feeling that emotion.

It's like, goddamn, I am actually a real person with feelings who you can talk to like an individual, idk how else to measure whether or not I'm what I say I am.

we love roleplaying. we have 3 ongoing pathfinder 1e campaigns, 2 of which as a player, the other as DM. it's our outlet for everything creative, catharsis, writing, drawing, poetry, friendly banter, like screaming in a controlled environment knowing everything will be back to normal at the end of the 3 scheduled hours.

we don't get the "well endos are just roleplaying! they should get into LARP instead of appropriating a disorder!". it doesn't feel like roleplaying. like... endogenic plurality doesn't really feel like roleplaying, not even acting in character for a character blog. while roleplaying, you can choose to step out of your role at any point. bored, tired, overwhelmed? you can just say no and go back to your normal self. maybe it takes hours if the character you were playing was particularly intense, but you get back to being yourself in the end. you're not the character, you're a person acting like a character.

endogenics can't just... stop being endogenic. in general, you can't stop being plural if you're bored of it, and that's the #1 premise of any guide for the intentional creation of headmates: that you can't turn back. think once, twice, thrice and then some more, because once your guy lives in your head, he's not gonna want to leave.

it just isn't the same thing. and those who discredit endogenics on the basis that it's all made up in their head, I think they have a fundamental (and most of the time, intentional) misunderstanding of what endogenic even means. know your enemy if you're gonna fight it at least.

[quoigenicfromhell]

I can confirm that I was often active in syscourse when I needed to blow off steam. While I didn't not care about the arguments I was making, I knew I wasn't gonna change any hearts or minds, but dunking on someone when I was having a really frustrating day, or feeling belittled in my offline life definitely did something for me.

I was quite aware that this was happening while it was happening. I wasn't going out of my way to be mean to people I felt were either just confused or going through something personal themselves, I tried to limit my slam dunks to people who were being assholes, especially as time went on.

I decided I wanted out because getting worked up about ignorance or maliciousness wasn't helping my mental health and dunks in that space weren't doing it for me anymore. I have been a lot more relaxed and happy not being involved and just existing in my own little bubble over on my main blog.

Kind of bouncing off a discussion with @thecircularsystem on a post they made, but honestly I think one of the reasons that syscourse as a tag is so rancid and unproductive is because I feel most people in those spaces are not actually in those spaces to engage with discussion, debate, conversation, or understanding about complex topics and experiences, but they're in those spaces to fulfill an emotional / psychological / mental need that they are not getting elsewhere in their life.

I feel that while the words and the content might be about advocacy, philosophy, diagnostic credibility, being nice or mean to people, etc, the actual reason engagement is occurring is not really ABOUT that. Maybe it is a secondary or tertiary intent, but first and foremost it always seems to be about "being heard" or "defending oneself" or "protecting a community" or "convincing people that this is right or wrong" or "correcting people" or "protecting / standing up for friends and peers" - all of which boil down a lot to 1) getting validation 2) getting attention 3) making oneself feel secure / safe 4) making oneself feel smart / important / ego boost 5) making one feel as if they are making a difference / able to make a change or 6) gaining a sense of belonging / pack mentality

Which none are bad! Or wrong reasons really, but the issue tends to come when the need that it's filling is not actually in line with much of the reality of what it is actually doing.

Syscourse, particularly referring to the more aggressive and non-productive yelling at one another often found in the tag, might make someone feel safer, secure, or like they are participating in cause that will make spaces safer, but as someone who has been on here since 2018, very little actually gets done to improve spaces. Every year or so, someone involved in syscourse has a severe mental health breakdown / ends up in inpatient / gets chased off the internet and harassed solely because of their engagement in syscourse. I've never really seen anything 'safe' come out of syscourse other than the formation of the sysconversation tag as a means of escaping the hurt cycle syscourse tends to be.

Syscourse, in the realm of information spreading / miss information correcting, is often done poorly and without much scientific literacy. More often than not, its individuals sharing and posting scientific articles that prove their point without much understanding of the nuance and layers that goes into research. Often these articles are not truly discussed as much used as points of credibility and for people that are actually involved in research and practical experience, it's a large eye roll. It's largely posturing for smart points rather than actually improving any actual information or education about complex and nuanced topics. Most things in life are not black and white, cut and dry, or clear One Right and One Wrong like it often is in syscourse.

Syscourse, in regards to making a difference / change, is unfortunately the same argument / flawed nature as the commentary I made about feeling "safe". Nothing has really ever changed in 7+ years of me being on tumblr dot com and being around the syscourse tag. It might feel like things are being done, like differences are being made, but very very little is done through the standard yelling and aggressively barking about who is right and who is wrong.

Syscourse, as a community / group, can feel great to be a part of. If you've never really been a part of something and desire to feel included / important / have a social circle and friends, syscourse does provide a space for that. The only issue is, that the groups and social spaces centered around syscourse tend to be centered around hurt, fear, hate, negativity, and just a lot of negative feelings and emotions that worsen one another. On one hand, you get people to interact with and people who you agree with and you get this sort of support and bonding, but on the other hand, the social contract almost requires you to stay in at least a slightly dysregulated state to continue participating. Syscourse is inherently stressful and the aggressive manners that is normalized in it furthers that stressful situation. It's incredibly hard to leave or get out of those stressful, dysregulated, fight/flight mental spaces in your life outside of the internet when your common hobby / social media free time repetitively puts you back into those spaces. It fills one need (belonging and community) at the expense of the ability to actually relax and get out of a dysregulated mental space (which can feel normal and comfortable to trauma survivors but also holds back recovery)

I really don't think many people in syscourse would argue with me when I say "Syscourse is rarely productive" and so I think its really important to reflect on exactly, truly, and honestly what your reason for engaging in syscourse is and question if syscourse is really the best way to fulfill that purpose. This is especially so because while syscourse might fill a need somewhat, I can almost promise you in almost every situation, it only does a superficial job filling that need and it only does enough to make it so you don't feel that motivated to actually address the issue in your life that is making that need in the first place.

For example, Syscourse can provide community and a sense of belonging, but only at a trade off. There are other ways to foster a sense of community and belonging in your life that don't require you to chronically be stressed or in a state of fight / flight when engaging in it. It's not easy, and its not nearly as convenient as goign on tumblr dot com and making a post or logging into discord and talking with like minded individuals about how horrible or bad this post or that post is and catastrophizing the impacts of a Post on Tumblr Dot Com.

I dunno man, just some food for thought and considerations.

[quoigenicfromhell]

Oh I'm cooked 😆

SEMIFINALS: Quoigenic VS Circular

Get your votes in for either @quoigenicfromhell or @thecircularsystem

Propaganda is under the cut. Good luck and happy voting!

Reminder: These polls are completely subjective. However you define a "better" syscourser, that's how you should vote!

This time, the brackets will feature propaganda from yours truly. I am not an unbiased participant in syscourse, after all; I have my own thoughts and feelings to share.

Quoigenicfromhell -- This user has always been an advocate for disengaging. They are one of the few quiogenic systems in syscourse, and while they post less frequently, their posts provide thoughtful criticisms of how the system community tackles difficult topics. They're also an older collective, which is wonderful to see in discourse discussions; I feel too many younger systems join and potentially get hurt due to the heated nature.

Thecircularsystem -- What hasn't Circ done? Equally an older system, and in syscourse probably the longest out of anybody in the brackets, this user has been through it all. Every stance, every belief. And now, similarly to QFH, they advocate most strongly for leaving syscourse behind, for being more open to experiences, and have been drifting away into new things.

Both users provide interesting perspectives. Fun fact -- these users have also fought in the past, but eventually came to terms with one another over time. Two very similar bad bitches on the line.

Who will win?

You decide!

[quoigenicfromhell]

Dance like you've never danced before

What do you MEAN I won against green, that's impossible, they're far too cool??

@greens-spilled-tea we're both winners in my heart

[quoigenicfromhell]

What do you MEAN I won against green, that's impossible, they're far too cool??

@greens-spilled-tea we're both winners in my heart

[quoigenicfromhell]

Tbqh I'm OK with losing to a friend but my button is there if u want it

ROUND 4: Quoi VS Green!

Get your votes in for either @quoigenicfromhell or @greens-spilled-tea!

Good luck and happy voting!

Reminder: These polls are completely subjective. However you define a "better" syscourser, that's how you should vote!

[quoigenicfromhell]

Challenge fulfillment!

I voted for you for this bracket. I really appreciate the posts that you’ve made about syscourse; they help remind me to focus on my own self, instead of others, and that the medical view isn’t the only one I need to concern myself with, even if I rely on the medical system for help. You help me sort out a lot of my cognitive dissonance!

Also your PFP always makes me think of “he scream at own ass” which is really what syscourse is at this point

Aw thank you!

I haven't checked my notes in a hot minute so I'm not sure when you sent this. But I appreciate it!

Best of luck to y'all in the syscourse trenches.

[quoigenicfromhell]

Another hot take that'll get me in an argument

Sometimes when people say "innerworlds aren't real" they really mean "stop talking about your innerworld, you're making us look cringe"

[quoigenicfromhell]

Honestly I'd pay to have a conversation with a pro-endo sysmed. Fascinating sociological study tbh. Syscourse is so fucking stupid

That’s... not what sysmed means (https://pluralpedia.org/w/System_Exclusionist)

from the source you provided

system exclusionist is not quite synonymous with system medicalist, even though it says it is a synonym. but, it has its own definition in the page.

typically they don't believe in endogenic systems. system medicalist is when they see systemhood and/or plurality as medical.

[quoigenicfromhell]

Yeah, honestly I'd say anyone who reports someone for using parts language for their own system is either an extremist by definition (just because like...they're basically saying 'I don't like this, therefore you don't get to define yourself' which imo is at least vaguely authoritarian) or a kid who got kinda radicalized and hasn't unlearned that shit yet. I say that as someone who was kind of radicalized into the 'we have to liberate all systems from psychology' view for a couple years when we were a much younger system and hadn't yet learned how to not universalize our own experiences. Given the age demographic, usually my money's on #2, but age doesn't excuse that kind of behavior, I don't think.

That’s... not what sysmed means (https://pluralpedia.org/w/System_Exclusionist)

from the source you provided

system exclusionist is not quite synonymous with system medicalist, even though it says it is a synonym. but, it has its own definition in the page.

typically they don't believe in endogenic systems. system medicalist is when they see systemhood and/or plurality as medical.

[quoigenicfromhell]

The strict medicalized view of plurality is implied to be to plurality as a whole, not just a person's individual system. There are definitely extremists who see any medicalization as sysmedicalism but I don't think that was the purpose when it was originally used.

Again, not to use transmeds as an example but generally someone is a transmed when they view any transgender person who doesn't experience dysphoria as not actually a real trans person, or rather defining dysphoria as what being transgender is, and discounting any kind of identity-based definition.

I think it's disingenuous to say that anyone who views themselves medically (but doesn't enforce that view on other people) could be defined as a sysmed by anyone that isn't a complete extremist. I think most people want to encourage the freedom to define one's own system the way they want.

As for the other stuff: bad experiences in inclusive spaces and not wanting to be a part of them does not a sysmed make. Saying there should never be any inclusive spaces is a different animal--again, it's taking a personal experience and universalizing it. As for prioritizing DID/OSDD, that's kind of a weird inclusion to this, because I definitely think someone with DID/OSDD would clearly be posting more about that, and that's not a big deal or even bad. The only thing I can possibly think would count here is censoring any information about the existence of endogenic systems (for an example of the opposite, if someone asks us about plurality in general we'll give more information about our experiences but we'll always make sure to mention DID/OSDD just so people know our experience isn't the end all be all). Maybe saying endogenics don't matter and shouldn't be researched but we don't really see that either, so idk.

That’s... not what sysmed means (https://pluralpedia.org/w/System_Exclusionist)

from the source you provided

system exclusionist is not quite synonymous with system medicalist, even though it says it is a synonym. but, it has its own definition in the page.

typically they don't believe in endogenic systems. system medicalist is when they see systemhood and/or plurality as medical.

[quoigenicfromhell]

In that vein: we've kept most info about us off this blog, although we've never made our main a secret. Do those of you that follow us here and not on our main have any burning questions about us/how we work/etc?

[quoigenicfromhell]

I'm being so for real right now syscourse is incredibly pointless considering what the fuck is happening irl right now

It's been wildly freeing *not* checking the tag or engaging. I genuinely do not even miss it. Would highly recommend.

[quoigenicfromhell]

Round 2 Side A: Forest VS Quoi!

Get your votes in for either @forestdrifter or @quoigenicfromhell Below the cut are submission info for these two participants!

Good luck and happy voting!

Reminder: These polls are completely subjective. However you define a "better" syscourser, that's how you should vote!

Forestdrifter was submitted once, alongside a few other syscoursers. However, I also received two other requests for a "forestsyscourse" -- a blog which I couldn't find!! I tried multiple combinations of terms, but since I couldn't find that blog, I had to assume it had already been deleted by the time I got around to looking. Is it possible these were nominations for Forestdrifter?

Up against a returning opponent, Quoigenicfromhell. Having just barely won their last poll at 52% of the votes, we'll have to see if they can take the victory again!