randomsnakesimp

[randomsnakesimp]

In an AU where Kandrakar dropped the psychological torture prisons in favor of weird attempts at teaching the prisoners life lessons, what would Phobos and/or Cedric be subjected to?

Answers as legit, cheesy or off the rails as you want.

[randomsnakesimp]

Good afternoon!

Is there a thought that torments you or do you think about it from time to time?✍️ From comics or cartoons.

And did you get to the books?😌☝️

Thank you so much for your question! Sadly, I never got to the books, but I am thinking about buying them some day^^

As for thoughts that torment me:

Now, I tend to get stuck on every other plot hole, but I think the main thing about the comics is the time line. Phobos was at most eight when Elyon was kidnapped, but more approximately four or five as seen in the trial of the oracle arc. Even if he wasn't, he was only in power for thirteen years, but everyone be acting like he's an ancient evil. I never know if I want it to make sense through some weird time travelly plot, or just want to nitpick it apart.

Also, I can get especially stuck in mind carousel thinking about how the guardians could have fought some of the tougher villains without a plot nerf. I think my worst two nemeses in that regard are the ladies (especially lady crash and lady kimikal) and that weird ass kraken thing from the issue where they go to a random world to empathically bond with animals but really don't do anything. Take, for example, lady crash. She controls all cars in Heatherfield, and uses the people in them as blackmail. But when Cornelia jumps out of her, that plot point is just forgotten, and they suddenly act like being captive inside lady crash was the only obstacle. In a debate, on would say they shift the goalpost. I just never understand why the writers wouldn't bother figuring out a solution alongside the problem, which would make for a much more satisfactory story.

In the cartoons, funnily enough, my main mind fuck thought is how Irma generates water from nothing - is she taking it from somewhere? If so, where from? Could she harm that place by it? Or is she creating the water from something else? From what? Is she creating matter out of thin air? If so, could she increase the weight of the planet to an extend where it might significantly change orbit or gravity? Or does the water disappear later?

As for more of a psychological torment: imagining Phobos' and/or Cedric's emotional state.

I hope that satisfies your curiosity^^ How about you?

[randomsnakesimp]

Somewhere, there is an alternate universe where just before coronation day, magical Covid struck Meridian and now Cedric is stuck explaining to a bunch of tinfoil-hatted anti-healer-rebels that they are not immune to a virus just because they have crystals taped to their chakras.

[randomsnakesimp]

For something a bit more serious: I have recently learned from @briardarkdragon that the dragon myth originally given as the origin of the girls powers is much more closely based on existing culture. They kindly sent me some wiki links to read a bit more on this, and... Yeah, I just thought I'd say sorry for just throwing a bunch of assumptions out in my witchversary posts. Some rando german deciding they'd put up theories about a different cultures stories and not even realizing they were doing so must be pretty frustrating to a lot of people, and I feel that I have been inappropriate. I also deeply apologize for referring to the dragons as animals in one of my first ever wots without informing myself further.

I am going to delete the paragraphs on my assumptions from the wots, and likewise the first post, and will leave these theories to someone more versed in the culture.

If there is any other time I have been inappropriate in this or any other way, feel free to let me know.

[randomsnakesimp]

Cedric got adopted by his sisters found family and lived happily ever after, what are you talking about, why wouldn't he be alive?

What's a W.i.t.c.h. character trait or relationship that has become so established in your mind that you start getting confused when you're reminded it isn't actually canon?

[randomsnakesimp]

Also: do they get pollinated? Or are they saved from that fate because Phobos doesn't allow bugs in the garden? Can any of them ever look an insect in the eye once they turn back to normal?

I know I already said this but the black rose hedge starts out as just two roses. And it spreads by people running into it. Like, bitch, you deserve to be turned into a black rose if you try to rebel by just leroy jenkinsing up ahead into a teenie tiny flower. And what kind of angry lemming mob formed a nice, even circle around the garden before touching thorns? And HOW did ANYONE get onto the upper levels of that shitshow? Was the castle attacked by a circus? Does Daltar have to rearrange the roses? How does he get them up there?

[randomsnakesimp]

I know I already said this but the black rose hedge starts out as just two roses. And it spreads by people running into it. Like, bitch, you deserve to be turned into a black rose if you try to rebel by just leroy jenkinsing up ahead into a teenie tiny flower. And what kind of angry lemming mob formed a nice, even circle around the garden before touching thorns? And HOW did ANYONE get onto the upper levels of that shitshow? Was the castle attacked by a circus? Does Daltar have to rearrange the roses? How does he get them up there?

[randomsnakesimp]

Oh, yeah, I was referring to the English dub 😅

And well, it's neither like over the top doesn't suit that transformation nor like the rest of cartoon!Cedric is particularly accurately reptilian (which is fine in fantasy, don't get me wrong), and he is an alien, so I guess it works.

Does anyone know what tf inspired the cartoon Cedric noises? I mean, I don't expect much of a show where the frog geek asks whether lizards are reptiles or amphibians, but I can't even come up with anything close to a reptile, or even a sauropsid, that would produce anything close to his sound, so if anyone with a higher IQ in either animal sounds or backstage information can help me out here?

[randomsnakesimp]

Does anyone know what tf inspired the cartoon Cedric noises? I mean, I don't expect much of a show where the frog geek asks whether lizards are reptiles or amphibians, but I can't even come up with anything close to a reptile, or even a sauropsid, that would produce anything close to his sound, so if anyone with a higher IQ in either animal sounds or backstage information can help me out here?

[randomsnakesimp]

I once created Phobos in Sims and he ended up dumping Cedric for a clone of himself 😂 so 3 is canon in my eyes.

Also, yeah, I can totally relate to forgetting some OCs aren't real...when I read the Runic issue, I came up with this parallel universe thing in which each W.i.t.c.h. character has a counterpart, and I keep forgetting they are just a bunch of OCs I stuffed in there, lol

What's a W.i.t.c.h. character trait or relationship that has become so established in your mind that you start getting confused when you're reminded it isn't actually canon?

[randomsnakesimp]

In the TV show, Elyon constantly judges everything based on looks, ignoring actions and words, and this is portrayed as justified.

In the comics, pathologic jealousy if coming from a female is portrayed as a sign of love, every hint of jealousy coming from a male as a sign of distrust.

you know, i usually don't bother applying or looking for feminist or racial critiques to this franchise, but tonight i feel like thinking thoughts, so if anyone wants to discuss or has links to past discussions, hmu

[randomsnakesimp]

Even in a completely heterosexual, cisgendered world no one could convince me they were healthy falling in love with each other and not just latching onto the role the other fulfilled for them.

What's a W.i.t.c.h. character trait or relationship that has become so established in your mind that you start getting confused when you're reminded it isn't actually canon?

[randomsnakesimp]

Imagine if Cedric had still been around for the green ray filler issue, and upon finding out what's going on, the girls rush over to the bookstore only to find Cedric and Phobos completely submerged in diabetes inducing wedding preparations.

[randomsnakesimp]

In the show, I'm with you 100%, but in the comics, idk, I think Cedric insulting him in any way would just not compute, as Cedric is just such a backboneless sucker up simp (who I love very dearly). Although the pet name would probably work better in both installments.

cedric could have defeated phobos simply by calling him "baby". like, phobos would just die from shock on the spot.

[randomsnakesimp]

As a pet name or an insult?

cedric could have defeated phobos simply by calling him "baby". like, phobos would just die from shock on the spot.

[randomsnakesimp]

Lol, actually got confused about Yan Lin being Joan's Mom, so you're definitely not alone there. Same goes for TV-Phobos being that short...guess we're both senile xD

Also I totally feel you on Cedric. Especially cartoon Cedric could very well be trans, as his snake form does look more like a female with how bulky and huge it is. Although I do tend to view him as genderfluid or nonbinary, since he's my obligatory genderfluid comfort shapeshifter.

What's a W.i.t.c.h. character trait or relationship that has become so established in your mind that you start getting confused when you're reminded it isn't actually canon?

[randomsnakesimp]

So, one more thing from the witchversary prompts I'd really been wanting to talk about but kinda didn't have time was mystery.

Now, right off the bat, I think both the show and the comics (Arc 3 and onward, I still don't think it's a coincidence only the first arcs were adapted, as they have a different overall feel than the rest) handled mystery worse than just about anything I've ever witnessed, and while I know that this is an opinion, I will be quite direct in my criticism of the writing. If you ever feel personally attacked, feel free to inform me about that, as that is certainly not the goal of this post.

Now, in the show, why mystery was never a thing can be summed up with two words: Caleb and Yan Lin.

Almost every time the crew encountered anything that could be mysterious or throw up questions, one of these two just spawned and started throwing exposition at people, and in the very few cases they did not, the audience was still fed the explanations via the things they saw from the villains' perspective.

In the comics, this was somewhat of an issue - a lot of times, people would just feed the girls such a ton of exposition - but I feel that here, the incredible discrepancy between the potential for and the actual existence of mystery had a more broad range of reasons.

One of these is the fact that, similar to the show, what mystery was left was often completely eradicated by just showing the villains and their plans, only this time, it was made EVEN WORSE because comics have thought bubbles.

Second, you can't exactly have mystery when the entire world feels progressively like a bunch of drunk teenage fanfiction writers fought over whose idea would be the next to be half assedly handled over a few issues before joining Orube and Tibor in the ever-growing abyss of forgotten plot elements. Mystery is nice if it fits into a world, and feels surprising yet consistent, and especially in the case of a mystery enemy, the reader should be able to guess along, which they only can do if the plot makes sense and the world has some sort of rules. Sadly, that was less and less the case, until finally, the grand finale had the girls merge into Robo-Cop and each be handed a sense to control with negative five payoff unless you count toxic relationship enablement via supernatural forces as a huge win. Which brings me right to the next point:

If anyone can deus ex machina whatever, and at the same time, no one questions jack shit, then why should I care about any mystery? It's not like whether or not the characters predict it change anything.

Next, a lot of the "mystery" is just so poorly handled, especially regarding questionable alignment. Honestly, for any plot with a character whose alignment or motivation is supposed to be a mystery (see Erin, Cedric, Dr. Folkner, Nash,...), it's on par with the traitor in a game being the one undateable NPC. I honestly found myself mispredicting peoples arcs because the writing felt so on the nose or cliché I thought they could not possibly be serious.

Then, the girls themselves are either dumb as a loaf of particularly nutritionless toast or just don't give two shits about anything, often making the real mystery when they will finally reboot their obviously crashed brain computer. Like, they literally put massively more effort into washing Blunk in the cartoon than they put into supervising Cedric in the comic, and then they're actually surprised he's not sitting still? And in the Ragorlang Arc, with the white mask people, they literally admit they have not clue how to look for evidence, call out TV shows for making the characters find them per accident and simultaneously stumble across hints accidentally - which would be a fun moment if they didn't accidentally half their entire successes. Heck, in the Ludmoore Arc, they just gave up after realizing they needed Dean and Mrs. Junior Poetry League to plot convenience them through the first riddle and then had the book point them along the map and just be surprised at what hints the riddle gave them about the guardian once they found out anyway - which is a magnitude of retroactive down dumbing that should only, if ever, happen in one medium of storytelling: a pen and paper campaign. If you want to make a reader care about a mystery, make the characters put in an effort, and make them solving or not solving it matter. Especially don't put up the riddle and then make them stumble across the solution instead of finding it through their own effort.

Lastly, the comics just don't take the time to build up some form of mystery. Everytime a good, solid storyline starts putting up riddles, it's like the producers got over exited and couldn't wait for the end.

Now, just for fun, let's take a look at what is still, despite somewhat hating it, my favorite Arc, the Ludmoore one, and go through what I would have changed.

Firstly, I would have dumped Cedric off on earth an Arc early, and made him a suspect in that as well, maybe even leading to him being a reluctant ally, so the girls have already wrongfully accused him once. Let him off-handedly mention going to an old villa to salvage some books before it is torn down, but otherwise just partake in whatever story happens around him without showing any signs of a plan.

Now, when the actual element arc begins, keep the stuff about the eye watching them, but don't show if and how Cedric is involved in any of it. Maybe just let him mention some headaches or feeling unwell, but don't show his thoughts - leave it open whether it's an excuse or a genuine thing.

Then, when Matt is sucked in by the book, have Cedric tell them, like he did, that he warned him and Matt wouldn't listen. Have the girls be torn and maybe even fight over whether or not they should trust him.

Now the book starts spewing riddles, and only Cedric can understand them. Have him be cooperative, and let them all together find out Ludmoore was from Meridian and that he opened the portals. Maybe even let Cedric give out some of what he knows about the portals. Throw in some comments on how the elemental guardians work, and manipulate people, and have each riddle and guardian and stone be just a little more figured out by the girls themselves, and make the manipulation a bit more subtle. Definitely keep the switching patterns of who gets manipulated.

Finally, when they get to the book, let them put two and two together in there. The heart of Kandrakar is not the final stone from the legend - that final stone is the eye, and it has been controlling both Cedric and Ludmoore, maybe even one of them, the entire time, and has now moved on to Matt.

Now, I know this was less constructive, but I truly feel this is where w.i.t.c.h. massively falls short. I probably even missed half a dozen other reasons their mystery plot elements never worked for me. Feel free to add or disagree if you like!