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AGH OK IM BACK (I keep mistaking the search thing for the ask button)

May I perhaps have some Leaf Coneybear in these trying times?

Not if u don't want to and stuff but, *explosion sounds /neutral*

Kthxbyeeeeee (i *will* be back, you are my friend now, I shall be exchanging/throwing spelling bee headcanons at you at random moments)

you may !!! sorry if it’s rushed or anything it is Past my bedtime

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When Marvin breaks up with you you get a free hat as a consolation prize

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Father to Son 🎶

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what is this, wash and wear???

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falsettos art dump Teehee

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you want me to face the music? the thing that killed whizzer brown?

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#lesbian visibility week #have YOU seen a lesbian today #now you've seen two!

Charlotte & Cordelia in FALSETTOS

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SPIKY LESBIANS 🍽️🩻

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Small Trina sketch bc I love her sm :(

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real fans know marvin did theater in high-school

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@newsiesminibang24 art piece #1 !!! ta daaaa ✨✨

Building Momentum - @agentsnickers

story link here!! - https://archiveofourown.org/works/55304677/chapters/140300932

lyrics from rises the moon by liana flores !!! ok yall have GOT to read this fic its immortal au its found family its gender and time shenanigans you will get so invested into their livesssss,,, and i had so so much fun with this art i put some fun little details in :D

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this is your daily reminder to listen to set those sails from in trousers

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I am a firm Marvin Gardens BPD/NPD truther, so here’s all my evidence.

This is a very long post, so buckle up.

• Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Let’s go through the symptoms he shows, shall we?

- Has unreasonably high sense of self importance, and requires constant admiration:

Marvin, especially as a child, exhibits a large amount of grandiosity. This is most evident in How Marvin eats his breakfast and My Highschool Sweetheart.

He thinks of himself as above the maid staff and he constantly threatens/accuses them. Then he’s given the role of Columbus, and highly identifies with him to the point where he claims he *is* Columbus. That he’s this grand explorer, who’s the king of the ocean. He believes he’s powerful because of the role.

Then as an adult, Marvin has a constant need for adoration. He needs people (like Whizzer and Trina) to love and want him in songs like Thrill of first love and This had better come to a stop. That might even be a reason he got with Trina in the first place. He wanted to feel needed, without the responsibility of having to love back.

Not to mention the line “Kid. Be my son.” In Father to son. He wants Jason to fulfill the role as his son (and subsequently love him), not really acknowledging he’s his own person. But he still deeply cares about Jason, and wants him to succeed, he just does it through the only lense he understands; himself. Also, I noticed that Marvin literally moves the chess board aside and makes Jason face him during that song, even though he clearly doesn’t want to.

- Believes they deserve special privileges or treatment:

The R of Ms. Goldberg shows Marvin is obsessed with getting what he wants, for no other reason besides the fact that he wants it. It’s also implied that he didn’t even necessarily have the acting skills required to be Columbus, Ms. Goldberg just conceded because he kept pestering her. He believed he deserved it, so he got it.

- Make achievements and talents bigger than they actually are:

Again, Marvin obsessed over being a star actor. He also consistently exaggerates his intelligence with lines like “I can read her like a book” in How Marvin eats his breakfast and “I'm not so rich but hell I'm smart.” In This had better come to a stop.

In I never wanted to love you, Marvin also claims that he’s in demand, when he’s most likely not and is just trying to cover for his ego.

- Preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, brilliance

Oh wow. Ok, so we all know about the metaphor for games at this point. Marvin loves winning, he literally says it’s everything to him. He also says that he wants it all multiple times which is just, really driving home the point that he craves success and power over everything else.

Marvin is also characterized as being rich, which again emphasizes his need for success. I’m thinking he climbed the corporate ladder for the sole objective of looking like he’s successful.

Side note, I think the reason he never acknowledges how rich he is might be because he’s ashamed of being a trust fund baby. He had a whole maid staff as a kid, so it’s implied his parents had mad stacks. He might’ve sought success outside his parents’ money so that it was his own accomplishment, not his family’s.

I want to touch on My chance to survive the night, specifically the line “I played a game. She was as cute as a dime and couldn't spell. I asked her to spell my name. That's it for girls.” Marvin has a history of using games as a basis for breaking up with people because of his insecurity, even before Chess game. He gets a lot better with this in act 2, and this is evident in the racquetball matches. He seems a little unconfident, but he’s not devastated by it in the way he would be before.

I’ve mentioned this in a separate post, but The r of Ms. Goldberg can also be interpreted as a fantasy for power, since Marvin isn’t actually interested in having sex with Ms. Goldberg, and instead just wants to have control over her.

- Is critical and looks down on people they feel aren’t important:

Marvin consistently ignores his sweetheart even when she begs for his attention. When she tries to tell him she’s a person, he calls her ridiculous.

Marvin also just generally acted out as a child because he considered everyone as beneath him.

This trait is especially highlighted In Tight Knit family reprise, where he just straight up talks shit about Mendel, not being able to believe that Trina can love him. It’s also shown in Marvin hits Trina, that he dislikes her platitudes and expects substance from her, and then goes on to again beg for admiration with the line “How could you ever deny what we had?”

- Expects others to do what they ask without question:

This is best shown in This had better come to a stop and Chess game. Marvin expects Whizzer to play the housewife, while not acknowledging that he’s his own person.

This is also displayed in Tight Knit family, where he expects everyone to go along with his perfect vision of what a family should be.

- Has an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others:

This is most clear with Sweetheart and Trina. As I’ve said, Marvin blatantly ignores sweetheart’s attempts to love him, and completely disregards her. I want to note how he does this in favor of being attached to Ms. Goldberg and playing Columbus which are his power fantasies, essentially.

This trait is also shown in Breakfast over Sugar when Marvin basically tells Trina to shut up and that she’ll get over it when she’s having a a pretty expected emotional outburst to him divorcing her. He completely disregards her feelings, showing no empathy to her.

- Acts arrogantly:

This can just be interpreted as confidence but Marvin says that he loves being himself multiple times over the course of In trousers.

• Borderline Personality Disorder

- A strong fear of abandonment:

This ties into Marvin’s need for admiration, but he constantly asks others for validation, and even doesn’t want Trina to find new partners because he interprets it as abandonment of his family.

There’s also the workshop version of This had better come to a stop, which is all about how Marvin is terrified that Whizzer’s going to leave him again in act 2, but he tries to bury all those feelings down so that he doesn’t appear needy. One of the lines is “I sit here and slowly rot. Wait for Whizzer, wait for answers, and get none.” Which just really nails down this point.

There’s also Unlikely lovers, when Marvin refuses to leave Whizzer’s side in the hospital.

- A pattern of unstable, intense relationships:

I’m sure we all know where this is going.

Marvin has a lot of opinions about Trina. He says that he thinks she’s perfect in I have a family, but that at the same time, he says that he hates her in I swear I won’t ever again.

His wants are contradictory. He wanted Trina to leave him alone when he divorced her, but couldn’t accept that she married Mendel. Also, he fights with Trina consistently, even throughout Act 2.

Onto Whizzer, their relationship is driven solely by chaotic passion. Their relationship is *built* on fighting and making up with hate sex.

Whizzer has no idea how to feel about Marvin because of how unstable he is. Marvin can be gentle, but he expects everything to go his way. He’s affectionate but highly judgemental. (Then again, so is Whizzer.)

- Quick changes in how they view themself:

This is best shown in Your Lips and Me reprise. Marvin goes from hating who he was and what he did to Ms. Goldberg to having a whole ass victory song about how he loves being himself.

This might be sarcasm, but Marvin is also self deprecating in Tight knit family reprise, with the lyric “I'm too damn peeved, self-absorbed, self-deceived. Who knows?”

- Periods of stress related paranoia and loss of contact with reality

This is a stretch, but Marvin’s exes always hovering around him in In trousers might be paranoia about his past manifesting itself. This is especially clear in I can’t sleep and Your lips and Me reprise where they physically interact with him, preventing him from sleeping or reminding him of his past.

- Impulsive/risky behavior:

Bro got multiple STDs, presumably from unsafe sex. Also, it’s implied that he also got HIV after Whizzer.

Hitting Trina could also be seen as impulsive behavior.

- Wide mood swings:

This is where Marvin’s giddy seizures comes in. He has periods of extreme laughter and giddiness, sporadically.

- Inappropriate levels of anger

Marvin hits Trina. I mean, what else do I have to say? This whole song is about Marvin’s anger taking over his actions and causing physical harm because of it. He also shows inappropriate anger when he brings out Whizzer’s belongings after the Chess game.

Ok Jesus Christ that was a lot of words. Keep in mind that these are just my headcanons and you’re allowed to interpret Marvin in any way you want.

Also I don’t have these disorders myself and I’m not a professional psychologist or anything so let me know if I got some things wrong. I just care way too much about the Marvin Trilogy and I’m also interested in becoming a psychologist.

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she dont on my wont till we aaaagreeeee.

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In Trousers revival revive In Trousers come back In Trousers

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Ok so I haven’t posted anything about this before, but I feel as though I have to now because this obsession is taking over my life.

The Marvin Trilogy: My Speculations about Marvin’s sexual trauma

(Surprisingly, I’ve seen almost no one talk about this)

Cw: Pedophila, SA, mention of suicidality

For this, I am taking from both the 1979 album and the 1985 rewrite of In Trousers.

So, the elephant in the room: Set those sails. When I first watched the Trinity College production, the entire song gave me a sense of unease unlike anything else. There’s this whole depiction of Mrs. Goldberg stripping in front of Marvin, a 14 year old, and then Marvin backing away and watching all of the ladies sing. I want to note here how Marvin doesn’t sing in this at all. Then the song ends, and Mrs. Goldberg claims the entire song was a highschool fantasy by Marvin. See, I don’t doubt that parts of it were definitely made up, but I think Mrs. Goldberg coming onto Marvin was not. To me, Set those sails is Marvin’s interpretation of his teacher’s assault. He’s trying to justify his uncomfortableness by imagining this scenario is a sort of “wake up call” to manhood. One of the lines is “You might tell me you’re a victim, you might get what you deserve.” Which, in my opinion, is near damning evidence to suggest that Mrs. Goldberg groomed/abused Marvin in some way. She says that she can’t excuse a boy who’s lost his nerve, which seems to me like her encouraging Marvin’s perception of masculinity, and saying that he needs to reciprocate her affection to be a man. There are further references to how a good man never fails or how men account for the appetite of all, that could be him trying to tell himself he should’ve enjoyed it. A “good man” in Marvin eyes, is someone who has incredible resolve to his heterosexuality, and always lusts for women. What better a way to prove that than to pretend he enjoyed being assaulted?

Next, I want to note the differences between Set those sails and the R—- of Mrs. Goldberg. The r of Mrs. Goldberg is incredibly childish, and it’s clearly stated at the beginning that it’s a fantasy by Marvin. In this song, Marvin has the control. He’s the hero who takes Mrs. Goldberg instead of the other way around. He has no clear understanding of what sex actually is, and just wants the absolute power that is implied with it. I personally like the interpretation that Marvin made fantasies of having control to cope with being assaulted. I also like the interpretation that this song is a story he made up to tell others in order to “prove” his heterosexuality. As I briefly mentioned earlier, the behavior of Marvin between the 2 songs is also very stark. In set those sails, Marvin actively tries to get away from Mrs. Goldberg and stays absolutely silent. This is extremely uncharacteristic of Marvin, especially at this age. He always acts out, he always yells, except for this song. This deeply contrasts the R of Mrs. Goldberg, where Marvin is loud and happy, as usual. I take this to mean that Set those sails is one of the few moments where he is truly paralyzed.

There are a few references to Mrs. Goldberg’s misconduct in Highschool sweetheart as well, even if they are a stretch. Marvin says “She gives me words to say” and while this is obviously a reference to the script, it might also be her telling Marvin to lie about what happened. There’s also Mrs. Goldberg saying “Stop making me crazy, Marvin. I love the way Marvin acts, I do.” which is obviously about his unruly behavior, but might also be about her sexual feelings towards him.

As for how this ties into the main theme of misogyny, misogyny affects all. The idea that women are docile and innocent, and men are sex crazed is a product of misogyny. Marvin holding this belief actively hurts him over and over again, blaming himself for not living up to this standard. I truly have no idea if this is what William Finn intended, but I find it interesting how it all fits.

Moving on from childhood, let’s talk about Nausea before the game. Besides probably being my favorite song in the whole show, it gives a whole lot of insight as to how Marvin feels about sex now that he’s presumably experienced it. The constant references to games are important here, I feel like. Marvin absolutely loves winning. He even says that winning is everything to him in The Chess Game. Marvin would do anything to win, including forcing himself through intercourse he desperately does not want to have. It’s implied that he literally throws up afterwards, trying to purge himself of his shame. He even prays for it to stop, but inevitably, it never does. And of course this all stems from his internalized homophobia, and the added layer of possibly being assaulted as a child just makes the entire situation even more tragic. Having sex with Trina could *literally* be bringing back traumatic experiences. This also makes me feel for Trina, because she did nothing wrong. She just wants love, but Marvin is so fucked up. There’s also even more references to being inappropriately touched in highschool with the line “It's anxiety when you recall girls who touch you when you're walking down the hall.”

My chance to survive the night just further elaborates how much Marvin hates being heterosexual. I find the word “survive” to be very peculiar in this case. It went from “winning” sex to “surviving” it. This might imply how worn out he is because of all of this, focusing his attention to his literal survival than his pride. It might also imply suicidal thoughts during sex, leading to him just wanting to live through it, although that might be a stretch. (Marvin’s suicidality is a whole other can of worms that I’d love to get into in another post). One thing though, I don’t actually know if My chance to survive the night is before or after Nausea before the game, but it has a similar implication either way. Anyway, there’s one verse in the song I want to note. Marvin says sex as a dance, but he describes all the movements very objectively, and notes how he isn’t very lucid about it. This might be a sign of disassociation, which is a common trauma response. Another thing from this song is that he says he wants to sleep, but the phone will ring (Presumably a call to intimacy). And this theme of wanting to sleep but not being able to is a theme throughout the whole musical. There’s a reference to it in Nausea before the game with “If I touch her would she let me fall asleep?”, and many references in “I can’t sleep”, but I think that song is more about how Marvin’s ex lovers haunt him in general.

Next up, I want to talk about Your lips and me reprise. This really digs into the whole “Marvin’s ex lovers are haunting him” deal. This is the first time we really see Marvin actually acknowledge the ladies’ accompaniment for his songs, and it’s because of his guilt for making up a story about Mrs. Goldberg. I think Marvin thinking about this in one of his most private places, his shower, just shows how much this affected him, even in adulthood. The line “My body is not yours to hold” by Mrs. Goldberg is extremely powerful, and I think it could have multiple meanings. It’s Marvin’s guilt about fantasizing about her, yes, but it could also be him finally accepting that what he and Mrs. Goldberg did wasn’t supposed to happen. The ensuing panic attack is caused by Marvin’s perception of his childhood crashing around him. If anyone has seen lars_orange’s animatic of this song on YouTube, I really love their depiction of Marvin recovering from his panic attack. He thinks about Whizzer, and he breathes. This is where Marvin takes a victory shower starts. He’s not ashamed anymore. (Unrelated, but is it just me or is this song seem like Marvin taking a shower after having sex with Whizzer? It’s referenced in How America got its name that Columbus planned to take a shower after he and Amerigo spent so much time together.)

Finally, I want to talk about Another sleepless night. Specifically the 1985 version. This gives a clue into how passionate Whizzer and Marvin are, even before The thrill of first love. There is one key difference in the lyrics from the college production to the actual lyrics. In the actual lyrics, there’s a line, “I’m feeling hot. He'll close his eyes, and then surprise: I'll be awake and performing” but the college production changes it to “He’s feeling hot. I’ll close my eyes, and then surprise: I'll be awake and performing”. The actual lyrics enforce Marvin’s need for homosexual intimacy, which feels very in character for him at this point. He’s craving anything other than heterosexual sex and he finally has that in Whizzer. The college lyrics paint a completely different picture, implying that Whizzer is the one who wants passion. Then Marvin says “He'll wanna sleep, but asks for more. To put up with a guy like myself must be a bore.” This suggests Marvin still feels a sense of guilt for not being able to give what others want from him. These different interpretations bring completely different meanings to the line “But he sleeps in this bed, with me, a survivor.” For the original lyrics, the connotation of “survivor” is positive; he’s survived his trauma and able to move on. For the college production, it’s negative; he still feels fragile or insecure because of what he’s been through. Ultimately it ends semi positively with both versions saying that Marvin’s never felt more alive.

Ok, god damn that was a lot of words. Short story, Marvin is hells of fucked up, and I really really really love the Marvin trilogy

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they’re sitting and watching jason play baseball !!