#“but did i move” and “don't associate with evil” btw

[jin-zixun]

ok so i just got to rewatch the last two episodes of cql today and like.

in mdzs they gotta like be holding back su she the whole time, like kicking him to the ground to keep him away from jin guangyao and like cql!sms is just not about that life he's just. chilling. just watching in the background like "oh damn xiyao divorce? xiyao divorce imminent?? That could be good for me!" like he doesn't even get to die protecting jgy heroically. I mean, i mean he does die protecting jgy but the vibes are not the same. like he does die because he's trying to protect jgy but there's not quite the same sense that he is actively choosing to die protecting jgy right til the end. he just kinda dies.

10/10 choice to have him clearly suffering trauma flashbacks when he gets held hostage though. And still being like "don't worry about me"? What a fucking amazing man. 11/10. 12/10.

[desultory-novice]

Hello! I've seen many of your posts, and I have to say that I really appreciate your posts about Susie. It's saddening to see how controversial she is, I wish she didn't get as much negative discourse as she's gotten. She is within my top 5 favorite characters in the series.

She's definitely not a total innocent goody-good by any stretch of the imagination, but I also believe some people exaggerate her antagonistic traits. I think it's very much possible that she could interact positively with some others of the Kirby cast.

My question to ask you is: What friendly interaction headcanons may you have between her and Kirby? I could imagine she gained respect for Popstar after the ending of Planet Robobot and probably vacations there sometimes (assuming she doesn't live in Popstar), and I of course imagine that Kirby would be the easiest person to befriend and have light-hearted interactions with.

Thank you so much! Honestly, same about Susie.

I think the discourse about her has been just a little too one-sided. Like you bring up, some people hold the things she did against her in a way the other characters just don't end up seeing. And I'm not calling for people to then turn around and rub other character's misdeeds in their face by pointing that out. ^^;

I believe I understand WHY Susie is somewhat singled out in this way - as to many people, Planet Robobot's story felt a little too pulled from the headlines. But I think that whiff of realism has overshadowed PR's ACTUAL story for too long at this point.

The game is 7 years old already...

Oh gosh, I also wish people could just be more...hmm, balanced about her? For a while, the discourse was that "she should be allowed to be a kickass evil boss bitch!" and, woo! Yeah! But...she can also be allowed to be a complex character who is not entirely one way or the other about her checkered past too...!

She did evil things. She doesn't have to wear that on her flashing "bad girl" lapel nor does she have to become "Susie Homemaker" (ohoho) to be allowed into the heroes club. There's a rich Susie middle ground to be explored there too!

-

Moving on to the ask itself: I love the idea of having Susie interact as she is with the greater cast at large! She's got so many wonderful and interesting traits outside those associated with her evil deeds!

As for her and Kirby. We all know she LOVES ice cream. Not only that, the Super Kirby Clash update entry where she turns Magolor's gem apple stock into apple sherbet (...I am now SO curious to know how Master Crown Sherbert tastes btw...) so we know that she literally cannot help herself when it comes to the cool, delicious sweet, as she pilfers from a complete (?) stranger's (?) supply of fruit to make some the moment she sees the possibility!

I can just imagine the two of them with their hands and faces pressed to the glass of any given ice cream shop. (Susie, being Susie, might threaten to buy the place outright if they don't get served fast enough. And innocent Kirby, rather than chastise her for this flaunting of an old family vice, would probably just respond with sparkles in their eyes: "A WHOLE ice cream shop just for us?!")

-

I also think it's fun that Susie loves to sing and sings really well and Kirby...doesn't. Well, Kirby loves to sing but does NOT sing well. Susie seems like enough of a perfectionist that, rather than leave the room running like most of Kirby's other friends would do when Kirby grabs the mic might painstakingly try to teach Kirby their scales. (Though she might turn down the volume on her ears first!)

-

PR's website gave us an insight into Susie's schedule and we know she's the overworking type. I think that this is the one area where Kirby is going to do something for HER and teach her the importance of just stopping what you're doing, sitting down, and resting.

Initially, she would grumble, talking about all the other things she could be doing right now that are on her schedule, till something about having our cute fluffy pink and puffy resting beside her finally makes her realize stopping... isn't such a bad thing after all.

I think it would be this that might get her to take a second look at Popstar. At its natural beauty. At how simple life can be...could have been. She might even find herself crying for the first time in years.

...Oh no. Oh, she did not want this. She didn't ever want to stop because if she stopped, she knew she would cry. Kirby then wakes up from their nap and brushes a few tears off her cheek and gives her a hug. Because that's what you do for your friends...

-

Kirby might also invite Susie to plant a seed in the little garden they built with the remains of the Invader Armor Robobot, and they go together to check on it. Susie doesn't like to get her hands too dirty, so she upgraded Kirby's equipment slightly. But even though the garden can run on automation now, the two of them still take time to check on it and water the plants by hand.

"How are you going to know how they're doing if you don't ask them yourself?" "...You have a point, Pinky."

-

I think Weekend Susie indicates she's got a love of fashion and I imagine she'd be the one to gift LAVISHLY on gift-giving holidays. Expensive souvenir foods and clothes from some of the most metropolitan planets in the galaxy! (Not that Kirby would take time to savor the food before devouring it,, to Susie's frustration.)

Man, I kind of adore fashionista Susie, actually? Since Kirby is every/any gender via word of god, Susie would have a field day should the puff ever take an interest in fashion. You can literally dress Kirby up in ANY style! And they love all of it! (But she also faces a conundrum because, hmm, how DO you dress up a round ball?! Still, she never backs down from a challenge! And now Kirby's home requires an extension JUST for the new walk-in closet.)

Aside: IMO, Francisca is someone who is probably effortlessly beautiful. The fact that she stands out for her beauty despite dressing the exact same as her fellow mages leans toward that interpretation. I think Susie probably works REALLY HARD to look the way she wants to be seen, and she probably likes being recognized for that. I'm sure Kirby gives out compliments easy, which would bring a blush to her (possibly) cybernetic face.

(I really like cybernetic-girl Susie, btw.)

-

Winding down, as far as them becoming friends, again, I'm someone who likes to think A) the games do generally follow release order as far as timeline goes and B) the earlier games inform Kirby's treatment of characters in later games.

And it's in this instance that I think it's very important that Triple Deluxe came before PR. Kirby got to see first hand as Sectonia discarded Taranza, someone who had up to this point only hurt and mocked Kirby, even aggressively manipulating Kirby's oldest friend to fight against him!

They saw how Taranza, with the wool pulled from his eyes and forced to confront the truth that he'd lost his dearest friend years ago, does the right thing and helps them to stop her rampage. I don't think that Kirby 100% trusts Taranza(?) until Taranza comes back in with Dedede to help. But after that, Taranza IS an ally.

The reason I bring all that up is because of that lovely little moment in Planet Robobot where, despite all that Susie has done (invade Popstar, mock its people, hurt his friends) despite her bringing out a mechanized Meta Knight to force him against Kirby for a second time mere minutes ago, when her attempts to take over Star Dream backfire and it blasts her in revenge... 

...Kirby doesn't hesitate to run to her side to see if she's okay.

Kirby has seen this before. Kirby no longer has doubts that even people who've hurt him deeply are capable of being hurt themselves. And that it is less important about WHO is hurting who than the simple fact that HURTING is bad. For everyone.

Kirby was already Susie's friend.

If you're able to stop yourself from doing the wrong thing just once, heck, even if you CAN'T stop yourself (due to the malicious claws of an especially evil hat, say...) even if you are only capable of showing a flicker of regret, Kirby will offer you their hand.

(And I think that is probably why I would rather talk about the characters of PR than what real world evils its plot touches upon. Because that is where Kirby, the character and the game, puts its focus on. That is where it tells us we can save people.)

[lizavet]

Welp, might have to go through my tumblr settings to fix that, but anyway-

favorite thing about them

His motivations. Special Episode 5 is the best thing to happen to Dusknoir, cuz it gave him so much character. At first, we all thought he was just an evil villain, but naw, he's just... scared. Like, he's a ghost type. Dying is probably no big deal to him. But being completely erased? Removed from reality? That's different. That's terrifying.

Plus, you can tell that he does care about people. He's kind to everyone in the past. He goes out of his way to save Hero and Partner from the Luxray/Manetric tribe, even though he gains nothing from it. He's a genuinely nice person. He just... doesn't want to be erased.

I love a good pure evil villain every now and then, but characters like Dusknoir will always find a place in my heart. People who aren't cruel or malicious, but misguided or scared, who just need someone to be kind and give them a second chance. Always gonna grab my heart.

least favorite thing about them

...listen man, dragging kids into the future and immediately moving to execute them isn't a good look for you. Really puts a damper on your dad vibes. Especially since Partner really wasn't a threat to your survival. Hero you can kinda justify, but c'mon man, Partner did nothing but be kind to you. They don't deserve that.

favorite line

Do I even need to say it?

(Art by https://butchosprey.tumblr.com/post/625378639697100801/its-pok%C3%A9mon-mystery-dungeon-day-over-on-twitter btw)

brOTP

I really like the idea that Dusknoir and Partner get close. Both because it makes sense that the person he spends the most time with in the past becomes a genuine friend, and because it makes his betrayal even more heartbreaking.

OTP

I am not immune to Future Trio Polycule propaganda.

nOTP

Hmmmm... nothing comes to mind really? Dusknoir doesn't really have any ships outside of the Future Trio. Which makes sense, cuz why would he? Those three are great together!

random headcanon

I love the idea that Dusknoir used to be friends with Hero before they met Grovyle, but turned his back on them to work for Dialga once they started talking about changing the past out of fear. Just really drive that nail in a bit further, ya'know?

unpopular opinion

Listen, I love DadNoir, but I do think people can make him a bit too soft with Hero & Partner every now and then. He's still a pretty grizzled gay (That was supposed to be "guy" but I mistyped and I'm leaving it cuz it's still true but anyway). There are ways to soften him up and give him dad vibes without turning him into a puddle of marshmallow jelly.

song i associate with them

Everybody Wants to Rule the World - Tears for Fears. Especially once SE5 kicks in and we get to see who Dusky Boi really is. Talking about how nothing lasts forever, then immediately singing "Everybody wants to rule the world"? Peak vibes.

favorite picture of them

Ah c'mon, is this even a question? It's gotta be the classic.

[roominthecastle]

I find it interesting that even though we are supposed to believe Liz, Tom and Agnes is now a happy family, there has hardly been any true loving scene between them since... I don't even remember. Not even when they reunited after fake death did they seem that happy. Either TPTB didn't think to add that or it's on purpose. Thoughts?

I think the k/2 relationship has been sanitized, anon. One good visual example is what you also mentioned, their “big” reunion scene in 323 where everything is. So. Ridiculously. White. I think this is why their togetherness feels off and muted and - once again - fake. Nothing that went down between them has truly been dealt with yet they are already playing house again. They look like something out of a magazine - an attractively arranged but emotionally shallow image manufactured to sell some cheap crap you don’t even need. *cough*thespinoff*cough*

They def don’t act like two people deeply in love who are finally together as they were always meant to be. Their dynamic is lacking for a tv couple, I completely agree, and I’m not talking about the lack of sex scenes here (if I never see one btw these 2 it will still be too soon). They are more like roommates than soul mates. It’s not passion-affection keeping them together but “format and convenience”, so to speak. They are two people who fell back into a pattern and settled for it bc it is familiar - a lukewarm faux-marriage which remained their only frame of reference and which they can squeeze back into again but only if they can delude themselves and each other to their reality. Tim has to deny his own psychopathic nature and Liz has to pretend he is not the same selfish creep who used the same setup to violate her in every way imaginable. These are interdependent conditions, so if one wobbles, it pulls the other with it.

ok, more behind the cut but fair warning: I will wander off-topic bc k/2 interests me only to the extent it comments on Red & Liz’s relationship. which it does. imo + i am finally all caught up and have a lot of swirling thoughts, so again, beware of the ramblings:

Liz and Tim are back together almost as if nothing we witnessed in S1/S2b actually happened the way we *saw* it happen. Past transgressions are briefly touched upon but never with the intention of exploration. If they are brought up, it is done either to quickly wave them away or to put a revisionist spin on them. And so the authenticity of the dynamic suffers bc it is not an honest portrayal of a real reconciliation (which could never have been this fast and so complete) but a “quick-fix” for both, and if one of them strays from the script, the other is instantly doubtful. It’s just another fantasy. The only difference is that now Liz is complicit in maintaining it too bc poor woman thinks this is her only shot at having a Normal Life™. It doesn’t make the dynamic any healthier and it also warps her relationship with Red into something mostly ugly and irrational because he refuses to play along. His reluctance is perceived as a threat. But just like the fantasy, their distorted bond is also pierced by bouts of clarity (those are my favorite moments) and maybe someday this clarity will prevail.

But for now it just boggles the mind how much Liz is willing to either overlook, “reinterpret”, or “understand“ when it comes to her honey, while she holds Red to a completely different and extreme standard he will never be able to measure up to. It seems that all her frustrations are taken out on him lately. Red must be the root of all evil and the scapegoat at the same time, so Tim’s good guy status - and Liz’s fucked up choice to be with him bc he is “changed” - can be automatically validated no matter what Tim does. Again, it’s like we are back in S1. Red is not a Good Guy, don’t get me wrong. And I would welcome a healthy resistance, worry, and commentary on this from Liz if she didn’t choose to forgive everything and shack up with another criminal who has done precisely nothing remotely significant to make up for his 100% selfish and vile crimes. His grand gesture of “goodness” is that he is considering another way of living but since he changes his mind 10 times/hour, that’s hardly a solid sign + w/ the spinoff launching we know he is back to his old ways already, inviting the kind of danger Liz keeps complaining about but only with regards to Red’s presence. But according to her, it is only natural for Tim to behave this way and his lies are now an expression of “hope”. Oh lorde. I still remember when she claimed Tim was a changed man who had already reformed himself and thus became suitable marriage/father material, but it seems she just has to keep lowering the bar on that one since Tim apparently isn’t even ready to give up his fake identities yet.

The fake passports symbolize every covert and overtly aggressive, remorseless violation honey committed against Liz for years by repeatedly choosing to safeguard his own life and his mission at the expense of her mental/physical/emotional well-being, yet when she sees him still hoarding them, she just… acts like it’s no big deal. Their entire current relationship is built on strategically selective denial that only makes it look like they are dealing with things when in fact they are just brushing them off. Tim is now framed as a sexy spy boy struggling to settle down and his actual past with her is being scrubbed to support this fake (but much more marketable) image. Red is the only one left who refuses to accept/digest this obvious yet invisible lie, and Liz knows it too. And she is hostile to him, she keeps him away, she doesn’t allow him to enter the “dream home”, and this is where things get interesting.

The episode (410) where they move to their apartment is the same one where Red becomes obsessed with another apartment where everything is so white, it makes your eyes bleed. It is unnatural, sterile, sanitized (just like the big k/2 reunion scene in 323 we mentioned at the beginning). And he is down on his hands and knees with a little blacklight, looking for traces of a very personal atrocity that he knows has happened there even though there aren’t any overt signs of it now. And he keeps wondering how that is even possible. How can something so atrocious happen and leave everything looking normal and the same as it was before? How can even the memory of it disappear? He wants to avenge the murder of his friend and hire the murderer’s done-did-do cleaning crew, I know. That’s the surface agenda that acts as a conduit to much deeper issues he has been struggling with, including the k/3 fantasy unit. This gets confirmed when Dembe shows up on Liz’s doorstep saying that Red is spiraling again (he also acted out like this right after Liz told him the baby was Tim’s) and his only remaining anchors are her and her baby. If this ep with the two apartments is not a symbolic commentary on k/2′s unnatural sanitization of past transgressions and Red’s refusal to accept it, I don’t know what is, but I honestly cannot tell if it is done on purpose or not. TPTB probably thought it was ~quirky~ to have an all white apartment and that’s it. Fortunately, that’s not at all how it comes across in context of the entire show.

Red does to k/2 what he does to the “sanitized apartment”. He keeps crawling and poking around, he keeps trying to look behind loose parts to expose just one trace of the atrocity he knows happened there and what Liz is so busy suppressing, i.e. reality in favor of appearances (another topic Red dedicates a short speech to). This is why he later hires Tim for a mission that could have been given to any low level associate - he wanted to show Liz how unchanged and unfit her non-husband was (bc apparently it is still not obvious), and it did send the fantasy wobbling. Liz immediately flip-flopped on just how understanding she really was and Tim immediately questioned her love for him. Apply some pressure and this happens bc this is still a dishonest relationship. Also look at the way Red arranges this “reality check”. He enters the “dream home” uninvited when its current primary maintainer - Liz - is away, then sits opposite of Tim and close to Agnes, framing Tim as the intruder/outsider. He hates him and while I don’t think he will kill him, I also don’t think he will stop trying to pry him out of Liz’s life because Tim is a) a useless sack of shit and b) the rival. Every scene they share, they either stand/sit across from each other or Tim is forced to stand to the side or even leave the room entirely. He does not belong as far as Red is concerned and hopefully he continues to demonstrate it.