#“i have nothing to do with iblp!

[goldkirk]

Top 10 mental health/similar books you've read in the past year? (or documentaries, or podcasts, anything is cool!)

this is gonna be all over the place and way more than just 10, sorry, but i'd say my top most impactful things-of-any-type I've encountered in the past year are the following.

Books:

The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog

Reparenting the Child Who Hurts

Take Back Your Life

Zak George's Dog Training Revolution

When the Body Says No

Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents

The Case Against Conversion "Therapy": Evidence, Ethics, and Alternatives

On Tyranny

Random:

Plato's allegory of the cave

How Tax Brackets Actually Work

UV Camera Reveals The Best Way to Apply Sunscreen to Your Face

Rhett's story of his personal religious deconstruction timeline

This guy's gut wrenchingly honest, timeline-jumping, clearly articulated, and wryly humorous series explaining his long and truly wild journey to atheism

This 6 minute interview with Liz Hunter where she talks about growing up in a cult without realizing it

Church Services Are Designed to Influence You. Here's How.

Former Evangelical leader Josh Harris on renouncing Christianity

therapist talking about the lies purity culture tells women

a therapist's take on religions and emotional manipulation

Polygamist Cult Founder’s Daughter, Rachel Jeffs, Gives Her First TV Interview

Evangelical blinders/guarding your heart

Big Joel's video on anti-abortion propaganda (large focus on the movie Unplanned)

I fantasized about martyrdom too

Omnipotence paradox & laws of logic

"Cults Inside Out" with Rick Alan Ross

An analysis of the Christian martyr complex via the first three God's Not Dead movies

Raised in a cult and finding her voice (an interview with Liz Hunter)

No True Joy Outside the Church?

Pray Away: A Therapist's Take on Conversion Therapy

Nothing Fails Like Bible History - Episode 1

Personal Autonomy Post-Religion

WHAT do you do after LEAVING a cult? (life after the moonies) (this girl is SO FUNNY)

TheraminTrees's (therapist) YouTube videos, especially:

betting on infinity

rebuttals to 'betting on infinity'

false equivalence | qualiasoup and theramintrees

punishing doubt | religious condemnation of thought

'science' of the gaps

commanded to love | performing false emotions for tyrants

grooming minds | the abuse of child indoctrination

degrading love -- part one | how religions distort the meaning of 'love'

degrading love -- part two | how religions distort the meaning of 'love'

living with abusers

imaginary defects | when dogmas label us flawed

creating sickness | recovering from religion

Philosophy Tube's YouTube videos, especially:

Abortion & Ben Shapiro (you might need to pause this one a few times just to mull things over on your own time)

Ignorance & Censorship

Queer✨

Logic

Who's afraid of experts?

Identity: A Trans Coming Out Story

Social Constructs

The Hidden Rules of Modern Society

FundieFriday's YouTube videos, especially:

FOCUS ON THE FAMILY

THE CREATION MUSEUM & ARK ENCOUNTER

RESIDENTIAL SCHOOLS

The post 9/11 Evangelical fever dream that is Jesus Camp

MICHAEL & DEBI PEARL

THE MARTYRS OF COLUMBINE

iilluminaughtii's youtube videos, especially:

The Abusive Practices of Focus on the Family

The IBLP & ATI

Ex-Fundie Diaries' YouTube videos, especially:

Christian Nationalist Child Indoctrination Cult: AWANA

Christian Nationalist Propaganda | Inside My Homeschool "Science" Binder

Christian fundamentalism doesn't always look like the Duggars

Anxiety & Anger Are a Sin in Christian Fundamentalism | Emotional Child Abuse

Child Abuse | Spanking, Neglect, & Psychological Punishments in Christian Fundamentalism

Documentaries:

Scientology and the Aftermath

Pray Away

Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult

Lots of others on YouTube and Netflix I'm sorry it's just hard to dig them all up lol, if I have energy some other time I will

Hope this helps someone!

[spurgie-cousin]

To anon who asked why Christians care about Gothard, they don’t. I would guess that most don’t know who he even is. The only ones who care about him are the fundies that follow IBLP, which is definitely not the vast majority of Christians.

Yes if I didn't make that clear in my answer I agree. I took it as anon was talking primarily about the fundie verse but if they weren't, the vast majority of Christians have nothing to do with Bill Gothard or IBLP and probably haven't even heard of them.

[keepingupwithfundies]

Jed’s Potential Secret Wedding Leak

Hi everyone,

I have recapped the recent WOACB video at the request of some tumblr friends who want to discourage viewers to her channel due to the fact that I really disagree with her approach to what she does, in my opinion. You all know this, but I value privacy and respect for even people I disagree with vehemently. So here is the recap if you’re curious, although other than the wedding invite it doesn’t contain any info that I hadn’t seen before.

-T

The video opens will 19KaC clips about courtships. WOACB then says she has an exclusive photo and details about a wedding for Jedidiah Duggar.

WOACB opens discussing rumors of a Lauren Caldwell-Jed engagement, and said it didn’t make sense. She spoke to a family friend who denied it. She then said she heard a rumor that he had been courting someone for a while, and that someone was from Arizona. WOACB then says she has a copy of the Wedding invite: April 3, 2021 at 2pm with a registry and livestream information. The bride is Katelyn Nakatsu. It also includes a link to the Zola website, suggesting it is accurate. WOACB says the wedding is being done via livestream which means it might be filmed, since Justin & Claire had a big wedding in Texas, which she didn’t think would be filmed due to Covid risk. But the livestream makes WOACB think this is the only way they could get it on the show. WOACB says no one knew about this at all until the invitations went out. WOACB says it is not clear where the wedding will be. Katey's family has a flight school, which John attended. While there, he took a lot of photos with the Nakatsu family which suggested they might’ve been courted, but ultimately obviously this wasn’t true. Katelyn is also a lot younger, and recently graduated high school- WOACB says she is in her early 20s. Katelyn does have an IBLP history but only one sister. Jed has businesses in Arkansas. WOACB’s sources don’t know much about Katelyn, but everyone is shocked by this wedding since there wasn’t any heads up. WOACB wants to know about the secrecy. WOACB mentions the pumpkin back in the Duggar’s fall video which said “Katey”. WOACB talks about the secrecy (and engages in speculation I will not dignify with a recap, but trust me, she even says she’s just speculating) and mentions that Justin’s wedding was also kept pretty secret. Again, WOACB guesses this wedding could be filmed if it is virtual for covid restrictions. There has been no formal announcement, and they could be married in 2 weeks and the Duggars haven’t said anything about it. WOACB asks now that it’s leaked, how do you still act like nothing’s going on. Her source says it’s happening and that’s the tea.

[dfnews]

Episode Recap of “Jana’s Secret Garden” and “A Quarantine Courtship”

Last two episodes of the season! Wahoooo! 

Jana’s Secret Garden

1. The Duggar mommy gang (Kendra, Lauren, Abbie and Anna) visit Jessa’s house to snack and talk about mommyhood. Haven’t we seen this a million times before? It’s all baby girls galore in the tiny house with headbands flying everywhere. The ladies spend their afternoon making lactation cookies, since they’re all in “that nursing season of life”, and homemade baby soap because they’re also in that Jim Bob forced poverty season of life. Later Abbie and John and their baby take nanny Jana to Knoxville so they can get free childcare while other family members at home build a greenhouse for Jana as a surprise. Surprise! Now grow us some more food, wench! In Knoxville, Jana takes a woodworking class with John. She talks about starting a home décor business called Arbor Acres. That’s the name of the road the Duggars live on. Her business is registered as an LLC but the website for the business is unfinished. I don’t think she’ll put Chip and Joanna Gaines out of business just yet. The producer asks Poops and Lolli if Jana is the first Duggar girl to venture out in business and Poops has to bring up his boys. He says they ventured out by selling cars and flipping homes. That isn’t venturing out, that’s being a daddy’s boy doing the same crap daddy does. Michelle changes the subject back to Jana to make the point that Jana IS the first girl to venture out in business, though that business has yet to begin except for personal projects for her family as is expected of an IBLP girl. Jana’s business will most likely never open to the public. Not as long as she lives under Jim Bob’s authority. The guys bungle the greenhouse erection and the women folk attempt to paint flower pots with toddlers. Even though the kids ate a lot of the paint they still did a better job than the men. Jana gets her hair dyed while being interrogated by a rude and nosey hairstylist. I’m sure she was set up for this nosiness by the producers to get somewhat interesting sound bites for commercials. The guys finish the greenhouse with the help of their professional friend, Dwayne Andregg. I’m surprised the Duggars and Andreggs haven’t intermarried yet. It's bound to happen eventually. Jana’s gal pal visits to inspect. Laura approves. Jana flies home as the family decorates for the big reveal. Jana is really surprised and emotional over the greenhouse. It’s like nobody has given her any attention in decades and she’s not used to it.

 A Quarantine Courtship

1. There’s a quarantine going on and a courtship announcement at the end. That’s about it. John bakes a cake for Abbie for her birthday…fast forward. The family holds a quarantine parade to celebrate Abbie’s birthday…fast forward. Jim Bob seems to be having a midlife crisis because he’s driving a 3 wheel sports car in the parade to show off…fast forward. The Duggar girls sew masks for their family only. I guess the Christian spirit didn’t hit them as it did many others when it came to supporting first responders and our neighbors. Fast forward through Jinger and Jeremy doing nothing in LA. Ivy starts walking so the Duggars visit to peep through the window at Ivy’s new trick…fast forward. Family Fun Night is now being held over Zoom. Jinger announces she’s pregnant again but they waited three months to say anything this time. She took a blood test to find out the sex because nobody in this family has any patience to wait. Jeremy kicks a soccer ball that shoots pink powder all over LA starting a couple of forest fires. Stock up on those headbands, Vuolos.  Oh, and then Justin gets on the Zoom meeting to introduce Claire Spivey to the world as his courtship girl. I’m sure this was no surprise to the family and it wasn’t to me since stupid Justin posted a photo of him and Claire back in January and then quickly deleted it. That’s about it. Another season is over. Unfortunately, a new season will probably be back. I’m sure you can’t wait for more Duggar competitions, Duggar females getting pedicures, Duggar males acting incompetent, mommy chats, brother bonding, stupid themed parties, terrifying births and awkward courtships. Next season I would love to see Jim Bob going through a full-blown midlife crisis. Take that 3 wheel sports car and go hang out with Jerry Falwell Jr. for a while, Poops. I’m excited for that season of life.

[fundiebabynamebible]

Which Duggar is Courting?

Next Tuesday, 22nd September, a courtship will be announced during the season finale of Counting On. Speculation has been rife about who it could be since the episode synopsis was released several weeks ago. So, who are the contenders? 

Jana - For years there have been whispers of Jana courting but nothing has ever come to fruition. Yet again this year, the Counting On trailer landed full of teasers about a Jana courtship. I don’t think it would be the forever single, unlucky in love Jana. I have a feeling that Jim Bob will keep her as a secret weapon, ready for when Counting On it’s on it’s last legs and then announce her long awaited engagement. I do find this week’s episode solely based around Jana a bit weird but TLC always seems to be teasing a Jana courtship but nothing ever happens, plus I’m not sure why they would build her a greenhouse if she was moving out to become a helpmeet and dairy cow.

Justin & Claire Spivey - Justin and Claire were first photographed together on a Google Review account earlier this year. Claire was also briefly sighted in a recent episode of Counting On ‘The Best Duggar Christmas Pageant Ever‘. Justin is also believed to have recently created an Instagram, which Claire’s mum follows. None of the Duggars follow him yet though. Jinger, John and Abbie do follow Claire on Instagram though (as does Claire’s mum), plus Abbie follows her on her private account. 

Katey Nakatsu is a 21 year old fundie woman from Arizona, who’s family was inspired to join IBLP in 2012 after watching 19 Kids and Counting. After sending their daughters to Journey To The Heart, the family now go to Big Sandy every year, home school, the girls wear skirts and they have a private plane. The family have a blog but there have been no posts since last year.

Jedidiah & Katey Natsu - What better timing for Jed to announce a courtship just as he runs for Aransas State Representative. Jed also follows Katey on Instagram. In May, Jed was photographed at a restaurant in Arizona, near to Katey’s house.

Jeremiah and Katey Nakatsu - He seems to be being featured in the show a bit more recently but has remained quiet during any mention of courtship. Jer was back in May photographed at a restaurant in Arizona, near to Katey’s house. He has recently go his pilot’s license (Katey also has one) and registered a new business

There has been speculation since her sister Kendra’s wedding to Joe Duggar that Lauren Caldwell will one day marry into the family, making her and older sister Kendra the first siblings to both marry a Duggar (and their children double cousins).

James & Lauren Caldwell - The rumors about these two started at the end of last year when were seen touching hands when they baked Addison’s gender reveal cake last year with Jenni (possible chaperone?), getting pretty close during Addison’s birth special and and sitting next to each other during the funeral of Grandma Duggar on Counting On. James has been featured on the Caldwell Instagram a few times a lot recently (including on Kendra’s birthday). Just to add fuel to the fire, some photos of James and Lauren have recently been deleted from the Caldwell account.  Interestingly, the Caldwell Family account shared a photo of Lauren, Kendra, their mum Christina and Michelle Duggar on Instagram with a birthday message for Michelle. Jana also posted some photos and videos on Instagram a few days ago of her helping James to tile a shower - possible new house for him and Lauren? Or maybe he’s just a house flipper and doing some work on one of the Duggars’ numerous properties?

My prediction - Justin and Claire

Wildcard Prediction - James and Lauren Caldwell (I think these two are together but their courtship won’t be announced for a few more months).

Whoever the couple is is most likely engaged or close to engagement as this is the norm since the failed Josiah/Marjorie courtship.

[fundiefun]

My most to least favorite Duggar couples!

This #Duggarrank is going to be about couples! Ranking is (mostly) arbitrary, but here it is! Also keep in mind that I do not condone or support any of the fundie beliefs, but I am a strong supporter of judging people based on their character rather than their beliefs due to the fact that people cannot control how they’re raised, and what seems like an obvious alternative to their screwed up belief system is most certainly not obvious to them.

+

1. Benjamin Michael Seewald + Jessa Lauren Seewald (née Duggar)

These two are by far my favorite Duggar couple for several reasons, the first being their relatively fundie lite/conservative christian lifestyle. Ben was not raised with ATI/IBLP or the Pearl methods of child abuse rearing. Ben comes from a conservative christian/fundie life family, and he is much more open minded because of this. In his debates on twitter regarding topics such as abortion, while I don’t agree with his views, I respect that he is polite and considerate when speaking to people online. Jessa has always been a Duggar favorite of mine due to her headstrong nature, and Ben quickly became a favorite due to his lack of willingness to quell that sassy, headstrong attitude that we all know that love. Not to mention, their boys are so stinkin’ cute!

+

2. Jeremy Joseph Vuolo + Jinger Nicole Vuolo (née Duggar)

In a close second, Jeremy and Jinger are next on the list for favorite Duggar couple! There are many reasons why these two are up so high. Let’s start with Jeremy. Jeremy Vuolo was a college graduate and a former professional soccer player, giving him a much more secular worldview. He may not be the most open minded, but he certainly is respectful and at least he and Jinger tried to learn basic Spanish knowing that they would be living in a city that primarily speaks Spanish. Jeremy and Jinger also waited a year to have their first child, a little girl, who is due any day now, which makes for a much easier transition into sexual life than having a honeymoon baby, as we all know that Jinger was a virgin up until her wedding night. Jinger was always the most rebellious, outspoken, and spunky child of all the 19 kids, and I’d be lying if I said that I’m not happy that she’s found a fairly secular husband who whisked her away to a city in Texas and lets her wear pants and shorts as she pleases.

+

3. Josiah Matthew Duggar + Lauren Milagro Duggar (née Swanson)

This couple is fairly new, just married, so we haven’t seen much of them. However, of what we have seen so far, both Josiah and Lauren seem absolutely smitten with each other. Lauren is quite young, which is a downside, but she seems fairly mature, at least to me. I never thought for a second that Lauren was forcing her bubbly, smiley, and relaxed personality, which is quite refreshing to see in a fundie wife, as those qualities are almost all faked and forced. She seems to be a genuinely happy person, and Josiah certainly seems absolutely in love, which anyone can clearly see in his frequent instagram posts dedicated to her.

+

4. John-David Duggar + Abbie Grace Burnett

This couple is very new to us, in more ways than one! Abbie is 26, practically an old maid in the fundieverse, and John-David is 28. This is quite refreshing to see as we all know that courtship is a precursor to engagement/marriage. Abbie is not only old (and presumably mature) enough to be married, but she is also a licensed nurse! Being a practicing nurse definitely requires some form of secular interaction, so this is a very hopeful coupling! John-David has been a fan favorite for some time with his funny one liners and laid back personality. This courtship took everyone by surprise, as nobody was really paying attention to JD since we all figured he wouldn’t be courting for a while anyways. So here’s to Jana being next!

+

5. Joseph Garrett Duggar + Kendra Renée Duggar (née Caldwell)

This couple is lower down on the list because, while they’ve done nothing controversial and seem to be quite happy, Kendra is just so young. She seems barely mature enough for her age, and definitely not mature enough to be a wife and mother. However, Joe has shown in the birth episode of their firstborn son, Garrett David Duggar, that he truly does love and support Kendra. He was a rock throughout her labor, reminding her to breathe, holding her, encouraging her, and really doing any and everything that he was asked.

+

6. Austin Martyn Forsyth + Joy-Anna Forsyth (née Duggar)

These two are also lower down on the list not because of any particular controversy, but simply because Austin just seems so... Bored. I always get the feeling that they barely know each other and rushed into a marriage. Austin has never seemed particularly enthused about Joy, and it appears that he really takes her for granted. Not to mention, God only knows what her parents did to her to make her into the perfect submissive fundie wife and mother that she is today, and the fact that Austin comes from a family that supports people like the Pearls doesn’t help to ease my distrust of him. I want to believe that Austin doesn’t abuse Joy’s-fully available (see what I did there) policy, yet I don’t know that I do. He barely formed a sentence for his mother’s day post for Joy, and had nothing to say about her other than she has a heart for the Lord and is a wonderful mother to their firstborn son, Gideon (who is so adorable and expressive).

+

7. Derick Michael Dillard + Jill Michelle Dillard (née Duggar)

Where do I begin? Jill isn’t particularly controversial, but Derick really screwed everyone over. We all thought he was some wonderful, worldly, sweet Christian guy who came all the way from Nepal to whisk Jill away from her evil family, but alas, he was just some money-grabbing, angry-tweeting, blanket-training hillbilly who knew how to put on a good front when he was still in front of those TLC cameras. From harassing a famous transgender teen, Jazz Jennings, over twitter, to suggesting that his toddler son stacking building blocks was his attempt to help build Trump’s wall, Derick Dillard will forever live in fundie infamy. Poor Jill.

+

8. Joshua James Duggar + Anna Renée Duggar (née Keller)

Do I even need to explain myself? For those of you who don’t know for whatever reason, Joshua “Turd” Duggar molested four of his sisters and one other young girl as a teenager when they were ages ranging from 10/11 to 4/5. He never faced any punishment for this crime despite the fact that he confessed this to his parents and the police were made aware of the situation. Years later, while Anna was pregnant with their fourth child, a daughter named Meredith Grace Duggar, it was revealed that Josh had paid at least $1000 for two separate Ashley Madison accounts which he used to repeatedly cheat on his pregnant wife/mother of his children. And before all of this came out, he was preaching against everything LGBT+ in the name of “family values”.

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So that’s that! If you want to hear me give my unnecessary opinions/rankings on anything else, please tell me! Thank you:)

[keepingupwithfundies]

Pickle’s “Sam’s” Q&A

Take it with a huge grain of salt please!! We know nothing about the validity of that person. (Annie)

"Why do you believe Jana hasn’t been married off yet? When will her time come?”

I think she hasn’t been married because she hasn’t wanted to yet. To a degree, I think some of the kids have autonomy and choices as far as their spouses are concerned (more so the boys than the girls, but still). Jana’s always been super needed at home, and I think she might prioritize that over marriage (can you imagine the family without her?).

“Lets talk about Amy and her mom Deanna. Did Amy use the Duggar name? When did her folks get married? Are they still together? Is Deanna in the “cult”?? Does she go to whatever church JimBob is fronting??”

Amy wasn’t around a whole lot that I remember in the years I was attending the church. She did go by Duggar. I knew even less of Deanna, but while they’re Christians, they’re not the same brand as the Duggars and don’t follow all (if even many) of the same beliefs. Less conservative and all that. To my knowledge, at least back then, they didn’t attend the church unless they were visiting.

“Was all the strife between the Holts and Duggars about Josh? Did those in the church take sides? How much did the Duggars keep in contact with former church members? And lastly, were a lot of other church members believers in Gothard as well?”

I think it was partly about Josh, partly because Jim Holt and Jim Bob had a power struggle. The church did take sides, and families chose leaders. The Holts started having separate services at their home. The Duggars kept in semi-contact, and I think despite the rift they still attempted to maintain some kind of friendship. But it was never the same. Almost all, if not all, of the other church members were pretty staunch Gothardites, following his material and teachings and attending Gothard seminars, reading books by him and his people.

“Did you see any personality changes back then once the girls “learned” what happened to them and do they fully understand what happened or was it sugar coated?”

I was young at the time, and didn’t fully understand what was going on until later—couldn’t make sense of what I saw and heard at the time. I think it was heavily sugar coated, for sure, but the girls knew what was happening was at least violating. I remember seeing them sobbing for seemingly no reason, being upset around Josh, etc.

“How much parenting did Michelle do during that time? Did you ever see her break her voice/tone from her soft sweet stuff she shows the cameras? Were the boys ever expected to do things around the house?”

Let me put it this way: children in that church took care of the other children, even if they weren’t in the same family. If there was a baby who needed to eat and didn’t have a spare sibling, someone else’s older (female) child was expected to step in and help out. Changing diapers, feeding, general babysitting, the works. I never saw her break her tone…that was the way she talked all the time. The boys had general chores just like the boys, not that they ever got done. The bathrooms and kitchen and living areas were always disgusting.

“Is there a fundy underground, however small?”

Not that I know of. I’m only aware of myself and a small handful of others that have gotten out. In general, if you were born and raised in it, you kinda stick in it. It’s safer that way.

“I would like to know why no one has a job?”

Self employment was extremely encouraged, even expected. I’m not sure why? College educations, particularly for women, weren’t a good idea (my parents absolutely forbade it), so professional lines of work were sort of out-of-bounds. Plus, there’s all the temptations that come with the secular world.

“When someone (like yourself) leaves the cult for good is he/she allowed to visit their family?”

Depends on the family and who wants to be sympathetic and why they left and what sort of lifestyle the ex-cult member lives now. Oftentimes they’re considered a bad influence on the rest of the kids, so contact is limited or removed. I have no contact with anyone from my upbringing because I feel safer, but I highly doubt they would welcome me back now.

“Was Josh molested and he repeated the acts?”

I think it’s possible, but more likely he was probably exposed to pornography at a really young age by someone. I can think of a few people who could fall into a suspect category of abusers when he was young.

“Were the girls forced to forgive Josh and still spend time with him?”

I think they genuinely thought they were forgiving him and didn’t recognize (and also weren’t shown) the gravity of the situation. He was their brother, and they loved him. I think they lived in a lot of unexplained fear growing up. Like most of us did.

“Please describe how a ‘confession’ comes about.”

There were multiple meetings where they sent the children out of the house so they could discuss the situation with Josh. I think that’s likely where the confessing happened. I was a child, and therefore not privy to those discussions, but I overheard my parents and some of the other adults talking about it. Later, Josh was humiliated in front of the church; the adults already knew what he did, so they didn’t really rehash the specifics. He cried, several other people cried, his victims cried, and then there was a climactic moment when he was told he was going to have his head shaved or they would shave the head of one of his victim’s. Then he was told he was going to be sent away to work. It was horrible and scary and I hate thinking about it. Josh did terrible things, but at that moment he looked very broken.

“If girls were caught ‘breaking rules’ what was their punishment like?”

To be perfectly honest, I don’t really remember the Duggar girls ever breaking rules. I’m sure they did at some point, but they were “angelic” as far as behavior. I could speak for other members of the church, including my own family, but I don’t want to disclose that information at this time.

“Were the daughters seen as ‘damaged’ after the molestation scandal and did this impact their marriage chances within IBLP circles?”

No. No one ever talked about it, and the girls weren’t treated any differently after it broke.

“Were the older girls ever abusive to their younger siblings?”

Jessa was mean; I never liked Jessa, and wanted to steer clear of her. She scared me, and most of her younger siblings were scared of her. Jana could also be a bit stern and quick to punish, but then again all of them were supposed to be mothers to a whole host of children. That’s a huge burden to place on any adolescent or teenager.

“How did Sam get away from that lifestyle?”

By walking away and disappearing as best as I could. It’s still a struggle to recover from the abuse and spiritual mistreatment, and most days I wake up in disbelief that it ever happened.

“To what extent are children “betrothed/promised” to one another?”

It’s extremely common in those circles. Typically the father of a boy talks to the father of a girl and they work out an arrangement. A lot of times the boy does initiate some interest and discusses it with his dad first, but the girl rarely has a say and is pressured to accept her father’s choices.

“I’m wondering how the family was doing financially during those years.”

They were poor—until they built their big house. Then suddenly it changed. They could afford toilet paper now. But yeah, every Sunday when they held church, every family brought all the food they could so everyone could eat together, then leftovers were distributed. We all shopped at Goodwill and ALDI and pinched pennies. The poverty was real until the TV money started coming in, and then suddenly they were showing off a pantry like a grocery store to the rest of us and offering everyone extra food to take home that was donated by sponsored companies “before it spoiled” because there was so much of it.

“Can you describe what the home church services were like?”

We sang songs from hymnals they kept in the kitchen cabinets (so many hymnals!) that were accompanied by Jana playing on the piano. Classic hymns, never anything contemporary. Requests were shouted out by kids and adults alike. Sometimes there was a music special, but always there was one song in particular that all of the children would sing every Sunday morning. Then we had prayer time where requests were shared, and that was followed by watching a video seminar. I don’t remember ever taking Communion (I feel as if that was frowned upon, but can’t recall), but the service would be followed by a communal meal they called Fellowship.

“Are you aware of any sexual abuse of the boys in the church?”

I am, but not of the Duggar boys. It existed.

“I have heard that Jana ran away a couple of times, and she was rebellious.”

Absolutely not. Jana was (and still seems to be) one of if not the most loyal of the bunch.

“Did things get weird? People speaking in tongues? People with blankets to catch holy rollers as they fell backwards?”

Anything related to the gift of tongues, prophecy, or non-Baptist tradition was considered heretical. What got weird was punishing children in the middle of a service, women being constantly pregnant, husbands humiliating their wives and kids, and myself and other young people being preyed upon by elders.

“It has been suggested at times that the oldest daughter “belongs” to the father. Is that true in the IBLP?”

All of the daughters belong to the father. If you’re referring to Jana specifically, I wouldn’t say it’s just her. All of the daughters in their family and others were subject to their dad’s decisions. It was common to make vows to fathers as teens to stay pure and obey him always (similar to wedding vows) sometimes with a purity ring. I don’t think the Duggars quite did that tradition, but my family and many others did. My father gave his daughters a ring after a “proposal” where he asked them to remain virgins until he gave them away. Usually around 13. Creepy stuff.

“Was Anna’s family really made aware of Josh’s past?”

Yes. And no, that didn’t matter. He’d been “forgiven” by God and his family, so of course he wouldn’t sin again…especially if he had himself a wife to play with instead of children.

“How old was Jana when her parents made that arrangement/when it was canceled?”

I think around 2008.

“What does Sam think of the Jana/Laura rumors?”

Pretty ridiculous to me. Jana and Laura aren’t having a secret fling, in my opinion. LGBT+ members did come out of that church (including myself) but that would be far too obvious for them to carry it on.

“Why doesn’t Jana just leave?”

I don’t think she wants to. I think she’s semi-happy there, at least, to the extent of her knowledge of happiness. It’s her world. Leaving—coming from someone who did it—is absolutely terrifying.

“Are any of them secret atheists?”

The church was so fear-based about the afterlife being determined by present choices that I found myself as a child asking Jesus to save me every single Sunday. I still have a hard time even being an agnostic because of what was beaten into me. So I doubt it. It’s hard to disbelieve when the stakes are set so high.

“Did Josh’s abuse of his sisters continue when they moved into the big house?”

I think it mostly became a porn issue at that point. But it's possible. I think it was still an issue even then.

“Have you ever seen an example of an unwed woman getting pregnant?”

No, but my parents suspected one of the members in my family of getting pregnant (quite irrationally) and hell broke loose at the suspicion. It likely wouldn’t have gone over well and probably would have ended with that person being turned away (much like Anna’s sister).

“What was John David like?”

He was a shy, awkward, friendly-enough strange kid. Likable by everyone, obedient, humble, hard-working. I think he’s a good person, if misguided by his upbringing.

“Are you pursuing a formal, structured education or a trade? Will you raise your children differently than you were raised? Are you still a member of the same “church fellowship” as the Duggars?”

I am not pursuing further education at this time, though I have plans to. I’m supporting myself in a successful career and doing pretty well independently. I will raise my children VERY differently, without religion as a factor. I am not a member of the same church, I am not in the same area, and I have no plans to return to Christianity, at least staunchly, or in that branch. It is toxic and abusive. It is vile to me.

“How are the kids with the protruding stomachs now?”

I looked them up the other day. I think their family moved away, and it seems like their kids aren’t as involved in the cult anymore. They seem to be doing well. I’m happy for them.

“Did Sam ever go to ALERT or one of the family conferences?”

No, I didn’t. My family didn’t travel much.

“Were you able to have genuine friendships with the Duggar children in that environment or was there still a lot of isolation and privacy?”

I did have genuine friendships with the Duggar children; I even developed feelings for one of them as a young teenager that I thought were reciprocated (and may have been, we weren’t allowed to talk about that). We didn’t discuss the abuse because we didn’t consider anything abusive. We looked up to our parents (and feared them).

“Did Sam ever meet someone from the cult who cooked without using cans?”

Nope. We were all raised on cans. And speaking of cooking — Jim Bob’s BBQ tuna, or whatever that nasty stuff is, is absolutely disgusting. I’ve tried it. Hash brown casserole is gross too. It’s all gross. Ugh. I love eating real food now.

[dfnews]

Episode Recap of "Joy's Wedding" "Joy's Divorce" will air in 2020.

Season 4, Episode 1 - June 12, 2017

"In the season premiere, Joy and Austin's wedding day finally arrives; and another Duggar reveals a surprise that leaves the guests in shock."

So here we are again. Another season of life of recaps and high blood pressure spikes for me. This year looks to be about the same as the previous years. Another Duggar marriage is conveniently arranged to fall at beginning of a new season. This time it's 19 year old tomboy Joy. Joy, who said she hates wearing dresses is now wearing a wedding dress. Joy who recently graduated from homeschool and then sadly stated she wasn't going to college or to work but would stay home and help her family. Did she ever have a choice? No!  Religious abuse is holding her hostage. This episode is about her transfer of authority. Authority from living under the rules set by her father to the rules set by her husband.

Jill married an outsider who pleased the Godbobber with his missionary wannabe a preacher ways. Jim Bob arranged that marriage. Jessa married a family acquaintance who pleased the Godbobber with his anti-abortion work and preaching ways. Jim Bob arranged that marriage. Jinger married an outsider who pleased the Godbobber by hating on Catholics and being a preacher. Jim Bob arranged that marriage. Now it's time to pick another child to sacrifice to keep the show on the air. Since Joy is young I'm sure the Godbobber thought it best to pick a family friends' son that he knows well and will keep her in the area. It will also connect him to the Forsyths business which the Godbobber has admired and advertised for years. So Joy has had a young man chosen for her because the Godbobber claims God talked to him and encouraged this betrothal and if she protests in any way, she will be hellbound and disowned. This is abuse. I hope one day a family friend will be able to convince these girls that what is happening to them is not godly...it's evil.

1. The episode opens up at Cross Church in Rogers. All of the Duggar kids have been married in different locations. Jill at Cross Church in Springdale, Jessa at First Baptist in Bentonville, Jinger at Church of the Ozarks in Siloam Springs and Josh in Florida. What is with all the different locations? Do the Duggars go all rock band on these churches and destroy the place so they are never allowed back again? My belief is that you should marry in the church you or your spouse was raised in which means all of the Duggar kids should have married in the homechurch of the blacked-out windows.

2. Austin arrives at the church carrying suits and is met by Laura DeMasie, the party planner. LOL! Laura has been working at IBLP cult headquarters for many years and her being called a party planner for the Duggars is ridiculous. Laura is 31 and heads up the COMMIT program along with many other functions for IBLP. She worked under Gothard and lived through the storm of his resigning due to sexual assaults. Laura visits the Duggars often and I tend to think her visits are for counseling purposes. She helps to keep the girls in line. Now she's Joy's party planner? Mmmmkay.

3. Joy arrives with her little sisters who she quickly abandons to greet Austin. She says all the gushy things a fundie girl is supposed to say to her godly arranged man. Her phony fundie smile and stare are near perfection. This is not the Joy we've watched grow up. She's some sort of pod woman now. Joy says "Today is the day I've been dreaming about for a very long time." She's 19! She only got her braces off a couple of years ago. She graduated from homeschool just last year! When she asks Austin if he can believe it...that they're getting married, he snorts and says, "No". He really doesn't look excited. After talking about what they think their favorite part of the wedding will be they go off to pray alone as all the couples before them were shown doing before their weddings. Same ole, same ole.

4. Michelle's friend Cindy is back as wedding designer. She probably should have skipped this disaster. Dried flowers thrown on the floor, hay and weeds hung like they've been lynched from the ceiling. All I can think is I hope the church has a good sprinkler system. The bridal party shows up for hair and makeup. We see Jessa for the first time this season and of course she's talking about herself and her wedding day. Jinger appears and acts all bubble headed about what to do with her hair. Jill shows up to talk about her baby belly. Nothing really interesting happening here and it goes even more downhill when the guys are being filmed. Cindy appears to pin the corsages on the guys and they all look kind of annoyed by her. It was probably all the judging her in her jeans that made them look pissy.   Can't have bossy pants wearing women tellng misogynistic jerks what to do. When Cindy tries to pin John she asks him if he's "Arrested anybody lately?" We don't get an interesting answer. We get John pretending to be stuck by the pin like an idiot. Then Joy suddenly appears during the pinning to ask Austin about how she should wear her hair. She looks terrified to make a decision for herself. Austin asks if she is going to wear a veil or not and Joy is like, you make the decision. I don't have the self-esteem to think for myself. I don't want to get beaten kind of look. Austin does try to get her to think for herself but I'm not sure if he was sincere.

5. Kendra shows up and flirts a little with Joe. I'm glad she's a talker. She might bring some life into this show if Joe doesn't squash the spirit out of her. We meet her dad, the ignorant, gay hating, youthful looking preacher who will be sealing the deal with Austin and Joy. I wonder if being stupid is the fountain of youth. Pastor Paul Caldwell is who TLC is promoting now on their channel. They may need to start hiding him like they do with Josh.  http://www.nwahomepage.com/…/church-pamphlet-offe…/148038088  

6. Michelle shows up with her baby voice on to introduce the bride in her gown. Joy looks good and Austin did decide for her to wear the veil. Luckily the dress is long enough to hide the old brown sandals she decided to wear. The Godbobber then shows up to repeat the same lines in his phony blubbering way as he did for all the other daughters. He says Joy is the most beautiful bride ever. He has said that about every daughter before he walked her down the aisle. I've got to think it's not a compliment anymore but has turned into an insult. An insult because he can't put any effort into treating his daughters as individuals.

7. Photos are taken of the guys. A million cupcakes are baked and decorated. The girls' photos are taken. Joy finds her voice when she starts yelling for the bridal party to take their places. The wedding is about to begin and she seems to want to get this over with it. As the time approaches we finally see her nerves take over. She looks like she wants to run and I am cheering her on. Jim Bob fumbles and says, "You're a good daughter." A good daughter? Seriously? She replies with, "You're the greatest dad." I think she's better than good since she ended up being molested due to her dad's inaction concerning a molesting son of his. When the old man croaks all the girls who were molested need to fight for his inheritance. They deserve it. But of course, because they live in an ungodly patriarchy, only the boys will be given any inheritance money. Screwed again.

8. Pretty music is played as the wedding party walks the aisles. I search for Josh in the crowd but TLC has gotten smart and hidden that slug somewhere good. Jenni bawls as she realizes she's losing another sistermom. Austin must have tried to run because he's dragged down the aisle by his mom and Michelle and some old guy walking behind him. He's trapped! Then a trumpet blasts and the music gets all thunderous which causes Joy to walk the aisle to make it stop. Thank you, Joy! Austin weeps and looks around for the nearest exit. I can see a peak of Joy's brown sandals as she walks the hay covered aisle and hee haw comes to mind.

9. And so it begins. The pastor talks a bit and then introduces John to conduct a song. Seriously, John, who is the least musical Duggar is leading the song by swinging his arms around and acting all serious conductor like. This is the point where I peed myself and had to pause the program to change my pants. Do people really do this at weddings? The song is a simplistic hymn about God being your friend when you're sad. I think Joy will need to sing that a lot in her marriage. They start off right away talking about the marriage covenant and then quickly to the vows and the rings. Austin seems to panic for a second when he thinks Joy's ring doesn't fit but it does and then they sign the business contract, I mean the marriage certificate, which is done during the ceremony. Then the parents come up to pray in a football huddle. Then they are pronounced man and wife and the couple kiss but it barely looks like they touched lips. I'm pretty much convinced they didn't really kiss. Nice acting though. Song-peed pants-marriage covenant talk-short vows-rings-signing the papers-huddle prayer-pronouncement-missed kiss and that's it? That all took about eight minutes. Please tell me TLC cut some of the wedding out and it wasn't really an eight minute wedding ceremony. The young couple run down the aisle like the church is on fire and then Joy is scared shitless by a confetti cannon. Oh yeah, that's a hee haw wedding. Who cleaned up that confetti? This is why Duggars never get married in the same place twice.

10. John talks about the short and sweet ceremony and then pronounces himself a "Bachelor til the Rapture". Considering the Rapture is make believe I guess John will never marry and will continue to sleep in the boys' dorm forever.  Laura, the IBLP cult party plannner, is still available. Maybe she can change his mind. The "reception" consisted of eating sugar in the church lobby. Jenni changes out of her bridesmaid dress as quickly as she can. Austin and Joy give thanks before cutting the cake and then kiss and this one looks like they didn't miss. Then they set up the bouquet throw where Joy just ends up handing it to Kendra and then Joe gets down on one knee and proposes after only courting for three months. She says yes and everyone cheers. Another handcuffed teenager prepared to be transferred from one authority to another.  Another wedding to kick off the next season. The show will go on for as long as there are Duggar kids to sell off. If they keep taking in kids, like Tyler, that may be until the next century.

I needs some sugar!

[dfnews]

Episode Recap of "Bachelor Pad Makeover"

Season 3, Episode 3 - January 30, 2017

From TV Guide;"Jinger goes to Laredo, Texas, with some of her siblings to give Jeremy's bachelor pad a makeover, but they can't agree on where to begin redecorating. Meanwhile, Derick, Jill and Israel get surprising news at their family wellness checkup."

1. This episode begins with nothing. Absolutely nothing happening. Jinger, Jessa and Jana just chat about Jinger moving. That's it. Nothing happening here.

2. Jinger is packing bags to bring to Laredo. One long bag might hold a lamp. Jeremy has moved from his stinky shoes closet apartment that Jim Bob rudely visited into a two bedroom apartment. Duggar girls must have a two bedroom place when they marry so a spy can live with them off and on for awhile. I'm also betting Jim Bob is helping to pay for the bigger place. It's his way of having some financial control over his future son-in-law as he does with his others.

3. Benessa, Spud, and Jason are going with Jinger to Laredo to help decorate what will be Jinger's new home. Jana "volunteered" to stay home to hold down her parents' "fort". I worry about that grown woman. Something smells bad about her situation at home and her strict ties to Jim Bob. Someone do a welfare check on Jana. Ben makes sure to mention his college studies several times as he packs his books to make it look like he's doing something productive with his life.

4. Jessa and Jinger pack a lot of cheap crap into tons of bags that will be flown down with them. Why not just buy that stuff in a Laredo Walmart? Who knows? I guess because they know TLC will pay the bill for the baggage so they can be a little lazier in Laredo.

5. Back at Jill and Derick's home. LOL It's funny how the show calls it Jill and Derick's home because it's really not theirs. It's Jim Bob's. An ill looking man talks about going running with Jill and Izzy following behind. Derick talks about not being able to run in El Salvador due to security reasons though I think running from cougars could make a great hobby for him. Stickman, with no muscle tone, wants to run 5 miles. It doesn't end well. I skipped past the rest of that scene due to graphic gagging and vomiting. If they said anything important, let me know. If the show's writers and producers can't bore people away from the show maybe they think they can gross them away.

6. Jeremy picks up Joy at the airport because she flew in from what had to have been a Journey To The Heart brainwashing conference. It's an IBLP program that girls and guys go to separately to work through problems they may be having at home. Joy must have refused to make a brother a sandwich and got shipped off. She seems to be alone on this trip but I'm sure she hid someone who was traveling with her. Girls are typically not allowed to travel alone. Later they greet the others and they talk about fundie hugs.

7. Time to take a break from the soul crushing dullness for the weekly idiotic question asked to idiots segment. A producer asks, "Texas is known as the "what" state?" Jeremy: "No idea." And he lives there! Josiah, "Git her "on" or "done" state." It was hard to tell what he said. Josiah needs to pronunciate.  Jed, "The state of cowboys. Of Dallas Cowboys." Josiah again, "Gun toting state." Jed again, "The bread bowl of America." WTF? Joy and Jason, "The lone state." and then Jason airs the "star" and then gives off a creepy smile. Of course it is known as the "Lone Star State". I have never been to Texas and I know the answer to that stupid question. This segment filled me with so many emotions. Sadness for the Duggar kids' education and sheltered life. Anger at how too many people in this country are so badly educated. Happiness that I was not raised the way the Duggars are raising their kids. Relief that Jeremiah knew better than to shame himself in front of the world so he kept mum. And embarrassment for all who appear on and help create this god awful show. I did laugh though but it was only out of pity.

8. Jessa arrives in Jeremy's apartment to take charge of the decorating. She's full of ideas and Jeremy is in the way of them. A defeated looking Jeremy joins Jessa, Jinger and Jason for a furniture shopping trip. Joy stays back at the apartment to rest on Jeremy's bed. Ha! She gets to sleep in it before Jinger. I guess Ben stays at the apartment as well to babysit the Spudster. Actually, I'm sure Joy stayed behind to babysit Spud so Ben can pretend to study. They don't want to make the girls being subservient to men too noticeable.  Now the talk about shopping for bargains begins. Bargains, bargains, bargains. Duggars are known as the "what" family? You got it!!! The cheap-ass family! Okay, I really don't have an issue with bargain shopping because I'm a bargain type of shopper myself but when it's brought up in nearly every episode...it's time to snark on them about it. They find too much furniture for a tiny place and then are gifted a table by Jimchelle. Actually, I think TLC gifted all that stuff. If they film it, they buy it. I will give them a few smart points here for opening the box of the table and checking for damage before taking it out of the warehouse. 9 times out of 10 furniture is damaged before you receive it. Great move to check it first.

9. The spinster Duggar boys go to a car auction to buy a car for Jinger. It's too bad Jinger didn't get any say into what type of car she would like. OMG! Joe used the "new season of life" phrase when talking about Jinger moving. The bad cliche disease is spreading to the boys! Of course these useless boys don't buy a car because they couldn't find a "bargain" but Joe did buy a boat. He plans to use it for a season of life and then flip it. I'm sure they'll sink it first.

10. Jessa missed her calling to be a drill sergeant. The orders start flowing in the JinJer apartment. She can't pronounce duvet but she can make a bed in a snap. Then the Book War of 2016 begins. Jeremy likes books and wants them featured in his apartment. Jessa wants the books banned to the closet. One book shelf is sent to the closet which distresses Jeremy to no end. Has he ever thought about getting a kindle?  

11. DerJillBun head to a family doctor, who is a close family friend, to have Izzy's throat checked. Their friend, Dr. Fedosky, lost his license to dispense medicine due to years of writing himself prescriptions and being a drug addict. Amazingly, he is still allowed to practice medicine. https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/actions/2011/fr1117_5.htm His wife is also very controversial as a not quite a midwife. She has had complaints by people who have had her assist at births. She is also the one who was there for Jessa's birth with Spud when she bled out and had to be rushed to the hospital. Remember when Jessa begged to go to the hospital and people around her talked her out of it until she started gushing blood? The Fedoskys are amazing friends. :p Well, the doctor visit isn't just for Izzy. Jill and Derick jump on the table as well for check-ups. Derick has had this odd gag reflex going on for about ten years. He said he had an upper GI scope which found nothing amiss. The nervous family doctor advises Derick to go to an allergist. There is no mention of Derick's huge weight loss or deformed jaw. I don't think an allergist is going to help with those serious issues. Then he finds an issue with Jill. How ironic. Derick who seems to be living the life of the guy in the book Thinner is to see an allergist while Jill suddenly has an issue with her carotid artery. I have been to doctors all my life and none have ever listened to my carotid artery. I'm thinking this scene with a doctor who is a close friend is a set-up to try to take away attention from Derick's serious issues and place attention on Jill. Nice try Dillards.

12. Jessa, the apartment decorator, nails a green fake leaf to the wall inside an empty picture frame but for some reason has issues with hanging up a Rembrandt. Finally, Jeremy is allowed to hang it over his couch. How sweet of Jessa. Time for Jinger to fly away to the land of Arkansas while Jeremy remains in the bread bowl of America. She's excited about marrying her best friend...again. Jinger rides the magical escalator up to the ship with wings as Jeremy solemnly walks through the sliding glass doors of loneliness. Jeremy is alone again. Alone to tear up everything Jessa did to his place and sell it all on ebay.