#“muriel please inform crowley that i will not be talking to him”

[ao3cassandraic]

When angels overplay

Angels, playing a human role new to them, routinely overplay, in delight at their own cleverness and the sheer fun of roleplay. (Demons mostly don't. Crowley only piles role upon role on Bildad the Shuhite because Aziraphale prods him into helping con the angel posse. Until then, Bildad's basically just some guy -- if a guy who asks some rather foreboding leading questions -- to Job and Sitis. In s1, Hastur la Vista looks awful, but plays his role at Megiddo tolerably well; it's Warlock's child-outing-the-naked-emperor bit rather than any solecisms on his part that mess up his scene.) Angels just can't seem to figure out that sometimes less is more.

Muriel totally overdoes the Human Police Officer schtick -- Mrs. Sandwich clocks them just from a moment's glance at them, and so does Aziraphale -- because Muriel doesn't really know what they're doing so they think the thing to do is MORE OF IT. They kinda even know they don't know, but they have to get the job done so they just soldier (heh) right on. When Aziraphale pretends to buy their disguise, they are visibly thrilled.

Aziraphale totally overdoes the investigative-reporter schtick with the publican in the Resurrectionist. He settles down once he's getting some actual useful information, but the way he tosses around journalist jargon at the start is just as overegged as Muriel's Inspector Constable bit, and it comes from the same place of delight in roleplay.

Aziraphale's West End stage-magician career is also a masterpiece of Overegging It (when he isn't a basket of nerves, anyway). He only gets away with it because stage figures are allowed to be mega-flamboyant.

Here's the fun bit. Y'all ready for the fun bit? Here it is.

This applies to the Metatron too. He overplays his role as Kindly Oh-So-Human Appreciator of Aziraphale.

Oh, he does pretty well, the astute manipulative formerly-human-himself sod. He gets by Nina, no problem. The latte for Aziraphale (miracled or not) is a great gambit. He gets by Crowley, even -- Crowley's huge, huge, HUGE mistake is letting Aziraphale talk to the Metatron alone. (Crowley's contempt for Muriel's overplay, which he extends to angels in general, does him a very bad turn here.)

But then the Metatron says something that ground my brain-gears to a halt on my very first s2 watch. "You’re a leader, you’re honest, you don’t just tell people what they want to hear."

I'm sorry, are we talking about the same angel? The angel Aziraphale? The angel who flatly refuses to lead his troops in s1? The lying liar angel who lies lyingly even to the archangels and God Herself? The angel who when at odds with Heaven's archangels invariably finds a way to tell them what they want to hear, even if he has to convince them they want to hear it?

That angel?

Look, sure, it's meant as flattery, but the thing is, I don't think that is even the kind of angel Aziraphale wants to see himself as. He's not Michael or Uriel or Shax or Furfur, jockeying for empty titles and authority. He knows he's dishonest, and he's actually pretty honest with himself about it -- he confesses his lies to Crowley more than once over the millennia! He goes along to get along because it mostly works for him (and, of course, because he is always, always afraid).

But the Metatron clearly expects Aziraphale to buy this overegged line of utter boardroom-bafflegab bullshit. (Oxshit. Whatever. It's shit.) And the old boy's pretty damn pleased with himself at how well he thinks he's doing; he just oozes self-satisfaction.

I continue to hope Aziraphale doesn't buy it. He doesn't buy it. He does his standard go-along-to-get-along thing until he can get back to the bookshop and try to (codedly, codedly, anxiously, anxiously, the Metatron is still near) ask for Crowley's help.

I'm willing to be wrong about this; it's possible this is a cue to the audience -- rather than to Aziraphale -- that the Metatron isn't to be trusted. I don't think I am wrong, though. I think the Metatron went too far and Aziraphale (who is intelligent) caught it. Or possibly he'll catch it in (deus et Amazon volent) s3 when he's had a moment to consider.

P.S. I love that for all the swirling uncertainty about the details, the fandom has quickly -- and I believe accurately -- settled on the Metatron as the hate-sink string-pulling villain. We also seem to be pretty much agreed that there's one or several cons happening around the s2 ending, though again we're all over the place on the details. It's funny! I love y'all!

[secretlyhuntokar]

All the evidence I can find in S2 of Crowley being Raphael (or at least a high-ranking angel) before he Fell:

[under cut bc there's a lot]

Crowley not saying his name in return when Aziraphale introduced himself. The script is purposefully hiding the information (Ep1 - 1:08)

Shax saying "The kind of miracle only the mightiest of archangels could've performed" (Ep2 - 8:13)

Muriel saying "You have to be a throne or dominion or above" when talking about how to access Gabriel's files. (Ep6 - 7:34)

This could be them saying Jim/Gabriel took part in performing the miracle, but I don't imagine Jim had complete access to his powers then. And even if he did, it's unlikely he could control them well enough to help with performing a powerful miracle.

Also, Crowley's response "how do you know I didn't do it?" implies he alone has the strength of an Archangel and Shax knows that. Shax would have had no idea of the joint miracle so Crowley's question could only make sense in the context of him being a former Archangel.

From what I understand of angel hierarchy in Christianity, Dominion is the highest rank of the middle order and Thrones are the lowest rank of the highest order and therefore both are very 'high-up' angels in terms of overall ranking. Crowley being able to access the files while saying he was an angel once shows he must've been fairly high ranking.

Other hints that are more of a stretch are:

Crowley saying to Beelzebub that Extreme Sanctions are "something we used to joke about to frighten the cherubs" (Ep1 - 35:40)

Cherubim are the second highest ranking angel of the highest order, making them one of the highest ranking overall. This implies that both Crowley and Beelzebub were ranked above Cherubim before Falling, which makes sense for Beelzebub given their (former?) position as Grand Duke of Hell (and former position as Prince of Hell according to the wiki. [turns out this one isnt a hint but i still think some of the information here's pretty neat so i won't delete it !!]

Crowley talking to Jim about creating gravity says it "seemed like a good idea when we were all talking about it" (Ep3 - 16:52)

"All" here could imply Heaven as a whole discussing it, or he could be referring to a smaller group of angels such as the Archangels

Raphael being worshipped as the patron saint of people in the medical profession

During the resurrectionists flashback in episode 3, Crowley is on the side of the gravedigger, who is selling the body to Mr. Dalrymple, a surgeon. He also suggests to Mr. Dalrymple that he "might want to think about washing [his] hands" (Ep3 - 18:23)

Shax calls Crowley an "arch-traitor" (Ep5 - 33:45) [Thanks to user i-am-unoriginal-posts for pointing this one out in reblogs !!]

Just wanted to say sorry if any of this is wrong, I am not Christian and have a limited understanding of angels in Christianity so if any of this is wrong please point it out !! :]]

[mrcformoso]

Continuation of This Post on how The Second Coming is all of Humanity because I wrote that one on my phone and there was a lot more thought that went into it. (Please read that first hahaha)

One thing any fandom forgets over time is that we, the audience, have the privilege of an Omniscient Perspective. We have knowledge of The Narrative. That's how we're able to rationalize Aziraphale's decision. How we're able to forgive him for what he had to do. It's called a Meta Analysis for a reason.

Do you know who doesn't? The humans in the story.

As far as they know, Aziraphale disappeared. Without warning. Without any word of goodbye. How does this affect the people around them?

How does it affect Maggie, who was suddenly left without her landlord (and all his other tenants)? The People of Soho who know Aziraphale as a well-meaning cryptid? The Bookshop that was a Soho Safe Space that the MAFIA has been trying to get for years? The restaurants that were always miraculously restocked and small diners that were kept in service because they were Aziraphale's favorites and he never let them lose business? Their friends?

And the only side they have as an explanation is Crowley's. And Crowley would probably drunken rant, and they would pity him, of course they would. And over time, it would be the only side they could hear. Without knowing Aziraphale's side, who would they believe in more? (Don't get me started on their reaction when Crowley starts spouting how 'this was not the first time Angel rejected me', or how Crowley would try so hard to stop ranting about Aziraphale, which would only make him seem guiltier).

Look back at the fandom's immediate initial reaction to the Last 15 Minutes. How instinctively people sided with poor Crowley. That is what's happening here, except without The Narrative to give us a meta commentary.

So when Aziraphale comes back to thwart the Second Coming, Crowley sighs and goes along because he gets it. He knows Aziraphale. He knows that Heaven is toxic, and Aziraphale is a victim. He's sad, but he gets it.

The humans don't.

Cancel culture is prevalent and does not care for your backstory.

And resentment brews deep in those who were abandoned.

And poor Muriel is trying so hard to explain what's going on, but we've seen how Heaven keeps its angels in the dark under the guise of Order. They won't have the clearance to provide any meaningful information and evidence to defend Aziraphale. If they could even contact him.

Instead, they're left on a Fully Populated Earth, overwhelmed. They're accompanied by a Sad Demon that she learns is the kindest demon ever. They're dealing with Angry Humans who are facing the consequences of Aziraphale's sudden disappearance.

They're dealing with the Mafia that is taking Aziraphale's absence as an opportunity to take that piece of land away. They're dealing with the HMRC (I believe this is the IRS in the UK) breathing down her neck and she never learned to do taxes (and they have always been suspicious of Aziraphale so it's worse now that he's disappeared).

(FYI these two things are canon in the Good Omens novel)

And so, as they acclimatizes to earth, they can't help but feel tired and resentful. They try so hard to smile at Aziraphale when he sees them, but it's dimmed with anger. Why did you leave me alone? Why do I have to deal with this? Are they right in what they say about you? Do you know how hard it is to smile when I can't defend you?

And then I talk about how All of Humanity is now the Second Coming.

Crowley asked questions, and fell.

Jesus asked "why, father, have you abandoned me?" and was left unanswered.

Now, it's the humans that ask. Why did you leave us? Why did you leave Crowley? Why should we forgive you?

Good Omens talks about sides. Heaven, Hell, and what Crowley and Aziraphale once referred to as Their Side. Humanity.

Ultimately, Aziraphale chose Heaven. He needs humanity's forgiveness, for abandoning their side.

Aziraphale twice now told Crowley "I forgive you." And it was never in a good context.

Crowley forgives. He doesn't say it outright, but he does.

But now, Aziraphale needs Crowley's forgiveness, he needs Crowley to say those dreadful words, for the sake of humanity.

And they're not talking.

[gayforanthonyjcrowley]

ineffable parents

This is part 2, if you didn’t read part 1 yet, check my account if you like :)

————

‘ Crowley.. what happened? Please.. t- just tell me. ’ Aziraphale did his best to sound calm, Crowley was already freaking out enough for the two of them. ‘ remember.. ’ Crowley begins, ‘ remember when I asked y-you.. to send some pictures to hell? ’ Crowleys trembling body began to relax a bit ‘cause of the alcohol. Aziraphale didn’t say anything, he just nodded and looked Crowley straight in his eyes. ‘ well.. “hell” doesn’t stand for hell in my phone.. I put heaven in my phone as hell, ‘cause, you know- ’ He doesn’t finish the sentence, but Aziraphale knows exactly how it ends. ‘ f- Crowley.. please, show me your phone.. I need to see what they said. ’ Crowley hesitated ‘ angel.. be prepared. I’m so sorry. ’ He hands Aziraphale his phone, knowing what the angel is about to read.

Michael: What the- demon? Why does that kid look like Aziraphale.. mixed with.. you?

Muriel: Uhm.. mr. Crowley? ( Muriel of course knows about Robin, they were even there when Robin was born. )

Michael: Muriel? What is this?

Metatron: Muriel- there is a demon angel child on earth.. and you didn’t inform heaven?! THAT MONSTER NEEDS TO BE DESTROYED!

This is just the beginning of the chat, Muriel tries to defend Robin and themself, but they are just being ignored by the rest, other angels get involved in the discussion about if the child should live or die. Aziraphale starts crying, Crowley grabs the phone out of his hand and hugs him. ‘ What do we need to do? ’ he whispers holding back tears. ‘ I can’t believe I’m saying this.. but I think we should ask hell for help. ’ Aziraphale sounds so broken, how could his former side be so cruel? He already knew that heaven wasn’t as good as he always believed before he was promoted for archangel, but this? Crowley nodded and pulled Aziraphale just a little closer. ‘ I’ll ask Beelzebub what we need to do.. they always know something. ’

‘ THEY SAID WHAT? ’ Beelzebub is furious! Beelz was the only demon who knew about Robin before hell found out, they even looked after Robin when Aziraphale and Crowley needed a little time for themselves. ‘ IT’S NOT POSSIBLE THEY WANT TO KILL SOMETHING SO CUTE! ’ They love Robin, who couldn’t? Robin is one of the sweetest creations on earth, a little quiet, but very smart, kind and funny. ‘ Beelz. Please, tell me what to do? ’ Crowley grabbed their hand to calm them down. ‘ I- I might know something, but.. I don’t think you or your angel are gonna like it.. hell- I don’t even like it.. but it’s the only thing I can think of. ’ Beelzebub looks to the ground, not wanting to pronounce their plan. ‘ Fuck, beelz- ’ he didn’t finish his sentence. Beelzebub, finally able to look at Crowley, miracles a notebook and a pen. ‘ walls have ears you know, can’t be too careful. ’ Beelzebub starts to write the plan, with an unpleasant expression on their face. They hand the piece of paper to Crowley and disappears before Crowley can read the first sentence.

At home Aziraphale is waiting for Crowley. He has Robin in his arms, not wanting to let go of them. ‘ Robin, I don’t want to scare you, but you need to listen carefully to me, can you do that? ’ Aziraphale tries to stay calm while thinking about what to say next. A soft little yes leaves Robins mouth. ‘ There are some people who want to do bad things, your dad and I are always gonna try to protect you, but your getting at a age where we can’t always be by your side. I want you to promise me that you won’t talk to strangers okay? And if you don’t feel comfortable in a situation- ’ The door opens and Aziraphale looks up. ‘ daddy! ’ Robin climbs of off Aziraphale and runs towards Crowley. ‘ Hey little one! ’ Crowley kneels to the ground and hugs Robin. ‘ I need to talk to papa, would you be a good kid and play in your room? ’ Robin nods and goes upstairs. ‘ Angel ’ Crowley breathes. Aziraphale walks over to him and kisses him softly, he pulls away and looks at Crowley. ‘ Fu- Angel, your not gonna like this. ’

————

Just like I said in my post from yesterday, please let me know if there are any grammar mistakes, thank you! I didn’t have time to read and check for mistakes myself, but I’ll take a look later and edit if I find any.

I can’t promise anything, but I’ll try to write part 3 tomorrow.

[thesherrinfordfacility]

(1/5?)

so. the fall. both in general and crowley's specifically. i speculated about this quite a bit when i watched season 1 already and since, by and large, these speculations are still the basis for my thoughts now, that's also how i'll be structuring this. i'm going to go through the opinions/theories i formed based solely on the data available for season 1 first and then address new information from season 2 and how that's affected my conclusions.

a quick preface! i'm working off the assumption that go's god basically doesn't get involved in anything ever and the fall was consequently not her doing. nor do i think the metatron's heard anything more from her than anyone else has nor that he had even back then.

so the most frequent allegories of heaven i see are cult and abusive family and while i don't think that's wrong, my instinctive reaction was and still is dictatorship/surveillance state. heaven is literally the ultimate form of the divine right of kings. the metatron and the archangels cannot be removed from power because they were instated by god and their orders must be followed unfailingly because they are merely carrying out god's will. so angels starting to question god/the plan is threatening. immensely so, because the logical next leap is questioning the authority of the voice of the god and of the archangels. and sure enough that's exactly what happens! there's an uprising which turns into a war and the losing side are permanently exiled and branded as unforgivable traitors, pure evil, and any hint of something that could become dissent is cracked down on harder than ever because the archangels/the metatron can't risk anything like this emerging again. after all god isn't talking to them either and their power is very much not as divinely-ordained and unshakable as they would like.

now if there's one thing that season 2 did that was confirm my impression of heaven the dictatorship. the way gabriel is dealt with is deeply unsettling and looking at how isolated muriel is kept i'd wager there are no risks being taken that any angels could start sharing ideas again. before i thought there was an off-chance that the archangels assumed the fall was god's plan and that's why they did it but now i'm convinced it was purely political. (obviously they'd still think god intended it but i'm certain that was not the motive, that the motive was solely about staying in power. unsure what the metatron's view on god is. thoughts?) what's new from season 2 is the power dynamics at the top of the hierarchy. instead of the metatron and the archangels being a unified force on approximately equal footing, the metatron's more nefarious and more powerful than i assumed and is clearly the sole person at the very top, pulling all the strings and asserting himself as lone unassailable ruler and the archangels are infighting. gabriel's abusing his power michael's trying to usurp him and uriel's barely tolerating either of them. but while that makes for some interesting dynamics to play with i don't see how that changes anything about the fall.

wow 🦭 anon!!! firstly, please accept my humble apologies for the late-late answer to this!!! i got into a hyperfocus with an amv and then needed to make soooo many notes on what you've said so that i had a coherent response!!! 💃<- apology dance✨

anyway!!! by god im so excited to answer this; plot speculation is my favourite kind of analysis!!!

further asks and response under the cut!!!

okay so im basically just going to write up a train of thought without much coherency, incorporating both s1 and s2, so please do pop back if ive ignored something, or am missing something!!!

i completely agree with your assessment of god's involvement in the fall; following job, where i recently parsed out some thoughts on the conflicting interpretations of god's will where job, his family, and their suffering was concerned, im firmly of the opinion that god in GO is omniscient, but strictly amoral. whilst she might pull strings threaded through the universe (e.g. the knocking over of the candle in the bookshop fire is, to me, an example of this), she created and abides by free will. in her angels, in the fallen, and in humanity. I've gone over incarnations of this train of thought in #god is dead theory, if anyone fancies some extra reading.

but essentially, i can kinda see god's involvement in the fall being very similar to that of pontius pilate (depending on which account you read, to be fair) in the crucifixion of jesus, and leaving the fate of the angels that were 'rebelling' up to the 'people' - i'll come back to this. but i feel this could be a very fitting allegory insomuch of jesus being the scapegoat for humanity's sins, and dying for them to be absolved. the reconceptualisation of this in the context of the fallen is chilling, but apt (especially if anyone subscribes to some variant of the scapegoat theory - that being crowley, aziraphale, lucifer, or any combination of them. more in. #omelas/scapegoat theory tag).

bottom line for me on speculating about the fall, for me at the moment, is that god created angels. she created them to have free will, and free thought. this birthed angels starting to speak up about things they think could be different. some just wanted to make the stars live longer, some perhaps thought humanity were given too much importance, or god had too much power, altogether. i don't think god necessarily had an issue with any of this, because this was all according to how she wanted her creations to exist. but if she were to interfere in anything as an omniscient being, it would corrupt that very tenet - would influence free will, and render it obsolete.

so if god were to excuse herself, with very little - if anything - to say, it would stand to reason that her voice, the metatron, would take the metaphorical stage. now, i can see metatron's rationale going in two different directions (so far, and might be both or neither):

machiavellian (or dark triad) approach, in that he covets god's power and voice absolute for himself, to rule over heaven and its angels and wilfully disguise his own wants and desires as the word of god. and rebellious angels would threaten to upend his own authority in this regard

some kind of take on the divine command theory; specifically in ethics that morality is dictated by the command of god... ie. that something is good specifically because god commands it. DCT and voluntarism in general can be considered very flawed, (or so any ethics theory rooting in religion), for obvious reasons, but i could see this being what metatron genuinely believes. the absence of god renders him only with the great plan, and if the fall - because it's borne of free will - goes outside the scope of the plan, what other choice does he have but to eradicate evil from eden?

i find the second the most compelling of the two, but they're not mutually exclusive - metatron can still emulate machiavellian psychology and still think he's genuinely following the command of god, in good (?) conscience, in order to preserve a perfect heaven, without perhaps realising that his own free will could inform him otherwise. it would also, imo, bring back the conflict between the great and ineffable plans nicely - what is laid out by god, and what is entirely unknowable because it's literally dictated by every individual set apart from god?

moving onto heaven specifically... ive collected a lot of thoughts over the last 48h or so. first, mainly, that i agree with you in how to view heaven analogically; maybe it's because my experience in life has been very different to lots of others in the fandom, but my take on heaven is principally that of a police state, and what we're looking at is the institution itself. imo, there's a lot of shared characteristics between heaven and most kind of policing agencies, right down to the things that inherently open them up to corruption and resistance.

i hadn't thought to look at heaven in the view of divine right of kings, but this is very interesting. in at least one sense, yep - could view the metatron as being the defacto heavenly sovereign, and decreeing with power absolute. and given the reference to 1650 in s2 (and im personally hoping this might be a flashback in s3), this could potentially be a very powerful mirror (ie. charles I and cromwell during the english civil wars). for some reason however, this dynamic doesn't ring completely true for me - not quite sure why yet, but i'll probably come back to it.

the manner in which gabriel, and potentially muriel, have been dealt with in heaven is also unsettling. but i think personally for me, regardless of the political structure of heaven, what unnerves me is that it is potentially a facsimile of falling, but not in the way the narrative has so far posed it. hell are short-staffed - irrespective of why, we know this is an issue. but heaven seems to have a consistency in their numbers, inferred by the same problem never being mentioned in relation to angels. and then consider that gabriel at the very least is a powerful archangel; whyever would heaven allow gabriel to fall into hell, and work for them? no, it is safer to wipe his memory, and reduce him to what we can surmise is a very, very low rank of angel occupation/choir. is this the new falling? is this what happened to the fallen? i think there's something there.

now the thing is, thinking more on the fall has made me confront something. as much as their actions as thus shown to the audience so far are deplorable, the archangels are eminently empathetic in the context of the fall, and how they act afterwards. if we look at them considering that, what we consider to be, free will is in fact radical thought, is dangerous, and that acting on that will bring heaven down... well, it's actually somewhat understandable how they regard aziraphale.

let's take gabriel and how he speaks to crowley-as-aziraphale in s1: this is, to gabriel, an angel that has upset the great plan. literally stopped it in its tracks. is, to his mind, working directly against the word and will of god. a radical, gone native, and turned to rebellion. wouldn't gabriel be frightened out of his little head? of course he would! presumably he had to go through the fall too, watch as (we could hypothesise) his brothers (gn) fell to hell, and have to turn against them as traitors and dissidents. so, to watch as aziraphale presumably treads the same path must be terrifying, because of what it could precipitate. beelzebub in s1 even said it at aziraphale-as-crowley's execution, "it'll cause a riot!". and that's in hell - now imagine heaven.

we know that archangels are capable of change. we saw in job them have - if not a camaraderie - a cordial (albeit still quite condescending) relationship with aziraphale. this appears to deteriorate the longer that aziraphale is on earth, and his path diverges away from theirs. but we also see gabriel, fully as gabriel, fall in love with beelzebub. they are capable of it - and capable of free will.

all of this to say that i don't think it's conclusive at this time to implicate the archangels in what, as the hypothesis above indicates, is entirely metatron's doing. bear in mind that despite the recent trial, uriel and michael don't even recognise metatron. this could be memory wipe, or could be that despite how it's physically shown to us metatron in heaven as a floating head and metatron in human form are not recognisable... that being said, a) aziraphale doesn't recognise him either, despite seeing his head in s1, and b) metatron says, "you don't know me?!", which could either be a test, or as genuine incredulity that they don't remember the mf metatron. the whole thing, as LWA has pointed out on a couple of occasions now, reeks of the nuremberg defense ('just following orders'), and whilst it's unjustifiable, it's certainly understandable.

in any case, i think it has the potential to inform very heavily on the current inter-archangel dynamic in heaven - who trusts whom? who next will challenge god? who is hungry for power, and to bring down heaven? when you specifically consider uriel's disdain of michael assuming the post of supreme archangel, it could be jealousy or just out of pettiness, but michael doing so must suggest a degree of instability and concern too. it might not necessarily change anything about the fall retrospectively, but it does inform on how they punish angels, that step out of line, in a post-fall era.

re: the specifics of crowley's fall (and me bearing in mind the length of this answer!), i agree on pretty much every point you raised, each conclusion - ive covered similar thoughts in various tags: #AWCW spec, #the fall/the great war spec, and #scapegoat/omelas theory. one thing on whether AWCW fought in the great war; i agree, i don't think he fought. but i definitely think he was present. being fanciful, i think he might have hid, or someone 👀 attempted to help him hide, and get him out of heaven without bloodshed, or without violence ("sauntered vaguely downwards"). i don't think it succeeded, and i think potentially both were brought as traitors before heaven... and here is where i cycle back to the scapegoat/omelas theory.

and in any case - im not convinced that either of them, or indeed anyone(?) fully remembers the fall. it would make sense, from metatron's perspective, to wipe all seeds of rebellious thought (without accounting for the fact that they're born of free will, which cannot be erased) from all involved parties in heaven with a targeted memory wipe. as for the fallen - i think that's literally part of their having fallen; they can't remember specifics about their time as angels, or at least the specifics of why they fell. this would potentially be explanatory for crowley's tendency as an unreliable narrator as concerns his fall in particular. the one thing i do trust in particular as to his potential part in the fall is AWCW's line: "if i were in charge..." - take into account what ive said above, plus this kind of thinking being a very innocent but parallel to what we can assume lucifer's personal beef was, i think the origins of crowley's fall - and what his questions threatened - is relatively clear.

i know you've brought up other things too, 🦭 anon, but i wonder if this is something we can explore in further depth in another post? i feel this essay is enough to be getting on with for now, and would love to know your thoughts!!! again, really sorry for the delay, but hope this makes up for it!!!✨💕

note to self - topics left to look at! AWCW rank, and gabriel's first order archangel line, and his line as jim re: "all the morning stars..."

update: fuck it 🦭 anon, i was turning these topics over in my brain like a rotisserie chicken for most of the evening, so let's dig in anyway!!!✨

okay look, i'll admit (and as is clearly evident in my old posts), i was an advocate of the crowley is lucifer theory. obviously neil debunked this, no worries, glad to have nipped that in the bud. but i am still fairly convinced that crowley is going to own a lucifer-ish narrative as concerns his fall. if we go by hell hierarchy in GO and correlate this against influential material (scripture, and yes okay Milton), we can be fairly certain that lucifer led on the fall, fell first and became satan, beelzebub was a key part (to warrant being prince of hell), and that crowley got himself caught up with them at some point before falling himself. this is a part of crowley's recount of his fall that i do believe, but i think he massively downplays his part.

i think AWCW comes across a group of angels that do not rebuke him for having questions, and even talk to him about them, encouraging him. i think he feels safe with them, and becomes pals with them, and they end up sweeping him along in more 'dangerous', 'rebellious' thought... and right up until the moment they get caught/lucifer starts speaking out, i don't think AWCW realises the shit he's gotten himself into (or maybe he does, but it's easier to sink down rather than swim up). in any case, he's surely going to be implicated in instigated rebellion among the angels, and be punished accordingly.

now im not entirely sure on the specifics of a potential scapegoat allegory would come in here, but i do think it does (and history will potentially repeat itself in s3, given the promo images). i think perhaps lucifer and the gang start to panic, panic at the concept of falling (regardless of who is dolling out the sentence, god or metatron), and they pin the blame on AWCW. he started asking questions first, he caused all of this. i think that's potentially why metatron has such beef, and specifically refers to crowley "always asking damn-fool questions", plus throws him the Dirty Look - all of this mess, and everyone believes crowley started it, even if he didn't pull the trigger. obviously lucifer and all the fallen get similarly punished, so crowley doesn't carry the full weight of the fall, but that would potentially be a big chunk of his character core that once realised could make a lot of things about him suddenly make sense.

(as an aside, i do perhaps think that aziraphale is also implicated in here somewhere - ive explored it in the #scapegoat theory tag more - but do also equally wonder if crowley is posed as the scapegoat for the fall, and aziraphale will be posed as the scapegoat for the last judgement? interesting mirroring to hypothesise).

in terms of crowley's rank... sigh. i get the narrative and character potential of it, but... i don't think he was a Very Important Angel, however that might look. at the very least, i hope not. i got a few reasons for this, first of them being that i think it could be quite cliché, to the point of being a bit reductive. he is very obviously, in a rather on-the-nose fashion, painted as being an archangel in s2; for this reason alone, i get the feeling that this will in fact not be the case. (and im not an expert on pratchett, far from it, but my understanding is that a lot of his themes work with the concept of being "ordinary" which... this theory would arguably shoot out of the park).

we know that crowley is at least in the throne or dominion choir. the way that muriel says these ranks 'or above' suggests that they are on the same rank, not throne-above-dominion as strict christian angelology suggests. neil and terry turned this structure on its head anyway with the specific archangel structure, but i think it's far that the basic blueprint of GO!angelology follows the same outline. which suggests that crowley can only have been these ranks, or a cherub, seraph, or archangel.

i dont think he was a high archangel on the same plane as michael and uriel, let alone gabriel. i did suggest (in #AWCW spec, i think) that he might have been a lesser archangel like sandalphon or saraqael, and this still rings true for me if you cross-reference heaven hierarchy against hell hierarchy (there's obviously a lot to contradict this copy-and-paste, but im just talking in the vague sense). the other thought i have, is that i don't necessarily think that crowley's power is borne out of having been an archangel; i think it's literally borne out of having an imagination, as was intimated in s1, and i don't necessarily trust his "how did you know i didn't do it?" line to shax; we know that shax is not the sharpest of demons in this respect. as for the miracle he and aziraphale performed - i don't think the reason why it was so powerful has anything to do with either of them, and all to do with jim (#25 lazarii theory).

moving onto "first order archangel", im still not quite sure what to make of it, but... i dont think it was intimating anything beyond reasserting gabriel's rank as the top archangel. the supreme archangel position seems to be just that - a position, a role - but one that elevates already existing power (and i think that's what's indicated by the purple eyes, personally - having, to a degree, some of the power of literal god), and thus raising you to the tier (?) of first order. fundamentally, without the SA position and therefore without the FO rank, i dont think gabriel is actually any different to michael or uriel; they're all archangels, and it's just a question of promotion. in which case, i personally think gabriel was just being sarcastic and childish, and simply reinstating "hey, im the top dog here, im the only one at my level, so what i say goes'. it feels like a very gabriel thing to do and say, imo.

i'll be honest; im coming up empty on the elevator scene, but if we're talking about missing furniture - the scene before is crowley walking out of muriel's 'office' with muriel and saraqael, and then bang we're in the elevator with them all as well as michael and uriel. there's a whole, obviously interesting, conversation missing there, and i dont think that's inconsequential... potentially.

okay last bit and then i'll definitely be done!!!✨ "morning stars" - so i obviously can't say all of the above and then based on this be like 'okay yeah there were multiple lucifer-type characters' because, honestly, i think that might be a bit far-fetched. there are a lot of astronomical, mythological, and biblic references to 'morning star', and 'light/dawn-bringer' but none that, at the moment, seem to fit for me. so instead, i return to jim.

as i say in my #25 lazarii theory posts, i think when we look at jim, we're somehow looking at the shell of gabriel, but also a fragment of god. not sure how she got in there, but to me the whole fly/huge miracle/jim makes that ring true for me. so, when referencing the morning stars, i think god (who let's face it, appears to be talking at that point in ep2) is literally talking about the beginning, where on the first day, god created 'day', and specifically 'morning' and 'evening', and in wider context the heavens and the earth (genesis 1:5, KJV) - so morning stars... might just be morning stars?✨

[abcat19]

So my brother is a witch I think??

Spoilers below the cut, apologies for last post (I swear I’ve got it this time)

Ok, so to explain, there’s something that’s happened to my brother 3 times now, all around Good Omens S2- the First thing he ever said being “Yeah we’re never getting a second season for Good Omens. There’s no more book, so there’s nothing there”. This was before the release date was announced, and we both genuinely had no clue that Neil had already been talking about/releasing information about S2 beforehand. Still, we both found out just a few days after this was said, much to our delights (and my smugness).

A few weeks later, we’re in a bit of a fever discussing ideas of what’s going to happen this season. It was mid-June (you might be able to see where I’m going with this) and we didn’t have a lot of material to go off of yet, so it was a lot of hypotheticals. Then my brother gets into his Ineffable Husbands rant, and while we both agreed on getting ‘something’ from this season (based on Neil’s ‘quiet, gentle, and romantic’ comments), my brother was VERY insistent on “We’re probably not getting anything very like- explicit. Like probably not even a kiss or anything.”

Not even 10 minutes later— news article from Google while searching for Good Omens content: it’s about EVERY and includes a link to a tweet of the image. I proceed to grow a shit-eating grin as I look my brother in the eyes and say “Hey, guess what?”

So that’s the Second instance.

Finally, today had been slow for new content and we were in another tangent. Something about the Muriel image we got today got me thinking back to Neil’s mention of the beginning of the show. I debated with my brother, and eventually he winded up saying basically, “We know we’re not getting anything about like- angel Crowley though (not referring to his hysterically terrible disguise), like I’m pretty sure I saw somewhere Neil said he never thought about it.”

It’s not even evening yet, and I’m still reeling over that article with Michael Sheen just outright telling us that not only will we get a NEW first interaction between Aziraphale and Crowley, but it’s all PRE-FALL. So, yes, I once again got to stare smugly at my brother while he seethed over being wrong (or maybe right?) once again.

Therefore, I have Three Times on record that my brother said something he was so stubbornly sure would NOT happen, all related to Good Omens, and each time he was both proven wrong almost immediately, and proven to possibly be an anti-witch of prophecy. A reverse prophet? Idfk what to call it, but I’m starting to question how this keeps happening. Please, to those willing to read this, I want to know if you have any suggestions for my brother. Because if I show him this, he might see what you said and think “Oh well that definitely won’t happen” much to our delights. Or maybe horrors. We’ll see.

[aleserzal]

Things I'd like to see in the third season of Good Omens.

Hello y'all! I'm sure you all share with me that the second season has been a delight and a rollercoaster of loving and sad feelings. So, these days depressed in my room… I've been thinking about things I would like to see in the third part of this wonderful story. And please, don't be shy, leave me in comments your thoughts or other ideas/things you'd like to see in the third season. I'd love to read it!

Crowley and Aziraphale talking in whispers about the first time they met (S2x01)… and Crowley tells/whispers him his name when he was still an angel.

Aziraphale comes over and gives crowley a plant… and talks a bit, but Crowley wants a proper apology… the apology dance.

A HUGE breakfast with lots of alcohol, both happy, at the RITZ.

A kiss and may we hear nighingales at that moment. Crowley: "That's what I meant, angel.

Nina knows everyone's taste in coffee… In the season two finale she said she wants to take it slow and not out of spite, so Maggie starts by asking her what her favourite coffee is. Nina smiles and answers.

Aziraphale continues because of his taste in yellow. Crowley realises it is because of him and his "pretty" eyes.

Crowley back at his home.

Crowley continues to visit the bookshop just to make sure that no books are sold and everything is going well with Muriel. Maggie and Nina visit him over coffee to ask him how he is doing/feels.

We saw in season two that Muriel and Crowley can perhaps be good friends, perhaps develop that friendship a little more as Muriel keeps him informed about Aziraphale in heaven.

Nina and Maggie's first date

Aziraphale, being so innocent, is being used for the Great Plan, he REALLY thinks he can change things (second coming) and Muriel finds out. Maybe Crowley can borrow Muriel's body and sneak in to rescue him (imitate Muriel's voice and suddenly say "Angel" in his own voice in front to Aziraphale). They'll get him eventually… and Crowley will need someone's help to get in… Gabriel's. One more last time.

Aziraphale misses his books and the food of human beings very much… in one of those memories Crowley's face and smile appears. He shakes his head to get rid of that image, but he knows very well… (and so do we) that he is hopelessly fallen in love with that demon.

Crowley's car ends up being black with yellow parts.

Clearly the coffee was a "threat" because of the name where it was bought. It will be called "The Judas Kiss".

Aziraphale realises how much he's been used, which makes him totally savage, he explodes in rage and we see immeasurable power, Halo and glowing eyes included. We always saw him as cute (and we ADORE that part of him), but there is a whole being of great power inside Aziraphale for sure. This will surprise Crowley in a very good way. (Imagine Michael Sheen enjoying and giving it his all in that scene)

Aaaaaand done!

Thanks for read. I look forward to your ideas or comments