#(also don't even get me started on how good Barret's writing is he has SO MUCH more depth of character I LOVE IT)

[loregoddess]

damn I knew the Nibelheim section was gonna be kinda sad, but did the devs really, really have to go and make it sadder?

[kazumahashimoto]

all my ff7 rebirth thoughts i can remember upon a first watch, split into good and bad

THE GOOD:

-AERITH'S DAMN SONG IS REALLY GOOD IT'S BEEN STUCK IN MY HEAD. I CRIED.

-both gold saucer dates with aerith were really good. cloud instantly following aerith's bit with the announcer voice shocked me so bad i started crying just a little it was so fucking cute 😭 and i think they did the conversation about zack really well!!!! i like it. i really liked how they traded off helping each other get on/off. very sweets.

-there was a scene like somewhat early on i think with aerith cloud and nanaki where aerith tries to get him to let her touch his paws cos she thinks they'll be soft and he says no. aerith tries to get cloud on her side and he says “i mean, i am curious” I LOVE how he follows her bits. IT'S SO CUTE. HE'S SO SILLY AROUND HER.

-in nanaki's date the paws thing gets referenced with cloud shaking his paw and saying “woah, they are soft” i love a callback. cloud silly moments

-barret saying in-kweh-dible

-CAIT SITH IS SO CUTE. I'M SO JEALOUS OF HIM. HE'S SO CUTE. it is unfortunately tainted by the fact they chose to mispronounced his name however.

-yuffie pretending to hit barret and barret pretending to be hit 😭<3

-BARRET’S STORY WAS DONE PERFECT. i was crying so bad. the visuals, the voice acting, the writing, it was all there. i'm so so glad they stuck the landing with this one.

-VOICE ACTING MOSTLY GOOD. nothing was so terrible i was actively pulling my hair out while it happened like with reunion, so i'm pleased. cody christian has definitely improved since last time too he's kinda lost that awkward disjointed manner of speaking sentences, which i'll always have a fondness for but he really did an incredible job here. i really like the main remake cast's new voices!!! i know the recast wasn't received well by everybody but i really think they're all doing great. the only people i really struggle with are zack, and recently reno? he sounds off. he was lacking whimsy. though we don't see him too much here anyway so shrug. ALSO I REALLY LIKED ELENA'S VOICE. i'm not sure familiar with elena as a character so i can't speak much on how she was being characterized here, but i LOVED what the actress was doing. i love all her inflections. she was always very petulant and cocky and she felt perhaps younger than she actually is? but i think that's what they were going for with her being new. anyway she was a standout for me in terms of new voices for this game.

-aerith says “for real? awesome!” at one point and while i HATE that they changed that line in reunion, the fact that aerith is mimicking zack drives me insane. she says for real at least one more time after this too i love it. i can't remember every instance of her mimicking zack but just assume i got a kick out of all of them

-cloud aerith date after falling into the pit, “you don't look like you're on a date… more like, ‘at a funeral’.” what if i died? what if i blew up right here?

-”cloud…[...]aerith… how the hell am i supposed to choose?” zack so close to realizing he can have them both

-zack cloud and aerith all being alive in the same room together for the first time and two of them are unconscious made me laugh. i stay losing i love it (genuinely it's funny i think it's good that they died ect)

-OH ZACK THROWING A FUCKING LAMP POST OR WHATEVER INTO A HELICOPTER WITHIN THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES OF THE VIDEO GAME HAD ME SCREAMING THAT SHIT WAS SO FUNNY. LIKE GODDAMN. ALRIGHT. WORK.

-”alright. follow my lead.” “look at you takin charge! i like it!” my essay in why zack is submissive,

-AERITH HUGGING CAIT. WWEWEWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

-”QUESTION. am i a dumbass?” “i'm cetra! am i intolerant?” i love you girl.

-cloud junior reminds me of the quaxly i named cloud jr. who was birthed by my friend's quaquaval cloud strife

-blanket statement i love all of cloud and aerith's interactions really i do. even if the plot was annoying me i must admit to enjoying all their cute smiles at each other. real cute. THEY MAKE GREAT GIFSETS !

-WE ARE IN THE FUCKING CLEAR. ANGEAL STAYED DEAD. PHEW.

-zack was looking at a notice board in the slums and there was a banora white poster directly next to his head

-the end scene was real fucking cute. i love a call back. ending on cloud's dumb smiley face and “you promise?” “promise.” AWAYUGH. i like them. they're sweets.

THE BAD:

-zack. oh girl. like, admittedly i was already coming to this from the perspective of “zack lives doesn't need to be canon”, but even STILL. god THEY FUCKED IT. now let me defend my initial stance here too. zack has no narrative purpose being alive in the canon story of ff7. the story of ff7 is already a complete one full of characters that each play their own role in how things turn out in the end. zack has his role. he's there to be cloud’s SOLDIER friend he looked up to, one that saved his life and brought him where he is now. his character gets expanded in crisis core, but ultimately he's still there to die. his role is to be dead. and, looking to crisis core, he gets a full story as well. it's not to say he has no room left to grow, theoretically, but WHAT would his purpose be in the canon story of ff7 if he still lived? here the thing. fanfiction does not need to be canon. fanfic and aus and headcanons are great, they're a wonderful tool to flesh out characters more, get in their heads, it's a chance to explore “what if”s. but they don't need to be canon. just because you like a character and want to see them more does not mean they'd serve an actual narrative purpose in the canon material. there's nothing zack could really offer here, in my opinion, and clearly the writers agree because they didn't give him shit to do.

everytime we skip back over to zack, he isn't doing anything. he's looking over cloud, looking over aerith, he's talking to marlene, to biggs, to elmyra, about NOTHING. “hopes, dreams maybe? something like that.” marlene gives him Weird predictions of the future, which changes nothing. he gives biggs a pep talk, which does nothing. honestly it feels like they were just trying to buy time until they could try and prod some jealousy out of him over cloud and aerith and then the final team up with cloud against sephiroth. and they couldn't even keep him IN CHARACTER the entire time.

i have my small gripes. zack so nonchalantly messing up an angeal speech (which he should have absolutely drilled in his head at this point. hah, one of THOSE, huh.) irks me. i still don't think caleb's voice really suits him, though it was much better this time around. i think zack not realizing that there's literally no way biggs could have possibly met cloud is stupid. but the worst, the most egregious bit of mischaracterization i have ever seen, is marlene telling zack he needs to make cloud better so he can protect aerith, and zack deciding to go to hojo. are you… fucking. kidding me? zack's internal clock is messed up. sure, okay, that doesn't stop him from remembering aerith's letter where she tells him he's been gone for FOUR YEARS. GETTING EXPERIMENTED ON IN A BASEMENT. WITH CLOUD. BY HOJO. and then he just, shows up! he shows up, and he says, “pretty sure i only asked to meet hojo, not a whole platoon.” he says, “whatever. the world's about to end anyway.” do they think he's fucking stupid? do they think he's dumb? do they think zack is so, what, cocky? so sure of himself? that he can’t possibly find all the very obvious flashing warning signs that that idea makes no fucking sense? you expect me to believe zack would just go back? that he'd even consider it? that he'd put his life, CLOUD'S LIFE, AERITH'S LIFE, at risk like that? like i'm speechless. what are they DOING to him? what did this even MEAN for his character? so he finds out aerith has a thing for cloud. he stands next to cloud for a minute. he leaves. what did this add? what did this even set up? nothing. zack being alive had zero impact on the story, so why keep him around to begin with?

-on the topic of biggs, biggs! he also had no fucking purpose! and he won't shut up about it either! survivor's guilt, oh sure, but when he starts waxing poetic about how he doesn't know why he was saved, all i can think is well of course they picked you, the other choices were a woman and a fat guy. no fucking wonder they went with you. AND THEN HE DIES WITHOUT HAVING DONE ANYTHING. he literally added NOTHING to the story. him and zack are just there for hungry fans to point and go LOOK, LOOK! MY FAVORITE IS HERE AGAIN! WE’RE EATING GOOD CRUMBS TONIGHT!

-cissnei. when i tell you cissnei was the literal only new potential plotline i was looking forward to going into this, i mean that fully. and you know what? i got baited. i, too, got baited with look, look, my favorite is here again. i thought of so many different ways cissnei could impact the story, based on the short clip we got from the last trailer, with her saying “it's you!” i thought, cissnei is the only person left who knew zack and cloud simultaneously while they were both alive, besides tifa who's keeping quiet and sephiroth who's fucking with cloud on purpose. this could be so interesting. she recognized him! i'm enthralled. i get to gongaga, cissnei shows up near immediately, and she says, “wait, it's you! oh, i thought you were someone else.” and they move on. it's never brought up again. like. really? really? “i thought you were someone else.” who in the WORLD else could he possibly be. cissnei sees this scrawny, short little “ex soldier first class” running around with the dumbest, FAMOUSLY, CANONICALLY, FREQUENTLY BROUGHT UP IN THIS VERY GAME, ICONIC hair style, and she says “i thought you were someone else.” I DON'T BUY IT. CISSNEI ISN'T STUPID. like it wouldn't have even needed to change the story line. any acknowledgment that she KNOWS him would have been better than THIS. a simple “it’s you! you're still alive!” “what do you mean?” “oh, uh, i saw you on the news!” BOOM there you go, now WE know she knows him, and everyone else just thinks she recognizes him from being wanted by shinra. excellent. but, no! no in fact cissnei serves no narrative purpose beyond “oh, she fulfilled zack's wish from crisis core” and “oh, i know her!” 

-the whispers were the worst fucking thing to happen to this fucking franchise. like not only are we getting the dumb “fate” bullshit (that's just there to poke fun at all the fans that wanted remake to be the original story with updated graphics), but we're also getting lost memories! in fact, we're using the whispers as explanations for things that did not need answering from the original game now too! aerith tells tifa about her missing memories, and tifa says she thinks that must be happening to her too. and i suppose i don't doubt that, given the whispers exist in this iteration of the story, tifa would THINK that that's what's happening to her, but what bothers me is that there's an ANSWER. if you're a new fan and don't know how this goes originally, you're going to be thinking “oh, it's the whispers” too. but there was no REASON for there to BE an answer. tifa thinks she's crazy. tifa thinks SHE'S the one in the wrong here, it can't possibly be cloud, but she's SO SURE she doesn't remember him there. there's so much turmoil there, especially as more and more signs point to tifa being right. but here, the answer is whispers. alright, guess tifa's memory is just fucked cos of the whispers. nothing to do about it!

i believe, due to the fact that whispers fucking with memories is something they kept bringing up, that everytime you think “the characters should already know this at this point” the answer is whispers! isn't that fun? isn't it Fun that we're getting plot convenient memory loss on EVERYBODY? honestly by the time they added a third fucking type of whisper i was fully convinced their literal only purpose is to drive the plot in whatever direction the writers feel like at any given moment. we need this character to do x, but how? well the answer is whispers. if EVERYONE is a puppet, what makes cloud so special huh? they're all at the whispers whims. don't seem to be defying much fate right now!

-on the topic of memory loss, yeah the only reason cloud remembers zack this early is so we could get that team up at the end. it's cheap. like, in theory the way they did it makes enough sense, he sees the room at the inn and remembers that he was with someone in there. (the conversation he remembers is also grossly out of character for zack at that point and seriously misleads you on what was such a somber conversation initially but uhhhh let's call it cloud's imagination huh.) alright, he sees the river flowing down the mountain and remembers he watched someone drown, must be zack! makes sense. and then, tifa agrees? yes, he drowned. oh, we should tell aerith. we should, but let me, and let’s keep it a secret. cloud just remembered he had a best friend, he says they were so close, how could he forget, he just remembered that he watched him die. and tifa tells him to keep it a secret? like i understand WHY but isn’t that a bit rude? i don’t know that she'd actually go about it like that. regardless it's getting REAL tiring how they keep adding in scenes early. they did it with the forest scene with aerith in remake and they're doing it here too. IT'S RUINING THE NARRATIVE FLOW!!!!!!

-um. no rocket town? we get cid with no rocket town? like picking up yuffie and vinny different from the original doesn't Super bother me, i think they did it well enough that it's not really worth noting for me, but this is quite the direction for cid. they've sucked all the misogyny right out of him and took out the area where he acts the absolute worst. i've never liked cid! but this just feels like. damn they didn't even wanna TRY getting into cid keeping this woman in his house doing all his chores cos she feels indebted to him. feels a bit selective to me, they had no problem making women squeal at the thought of hojo getting them pregnant, using women as bubbly set dressing, having cloud put a dress on and pretend to be a woman to trick a man into sleeping with him. oh but, cid is just a hair too far. we still need him for the travel though, so, welcome aboard! maybe the whispers made him forget.

-OH MY GOD THEY DIDN'T HAVE CLOUD SAY “did sephiroth… do this?” LIKE!!!!!!!! dude that's like if they decided zack didn't need to say “me? gongaga” to cloud when he asks where he's from. ARE YOU KIDDING ME.

-why did they decide shinra flew tifa out to corel? shinra, who wanted no survivors after the fire. shinra, who sent a full platoon after zack to kill him after he escaped. oh, but, in this one the residents in nibelheim all know that it burnt down? nibelheim, the town that's meant to be full of actors. the residents that are supposed to tell you “what an awful thing to say” when you explain the town burned down five years ago. oh but now it's a town dedicated to helping those with mako poisoning. right.

-i know damn well a furry did not design that galian beast WHERE IS HIS FUR. WHY ARE YOU WHITE. WHY IS HE NOT OURPLE. he looks too much like vinny, which might seem like a silly complaint but given how much he usually Doesn't look like him it kind of feels like they're treating us like we're dumb, like we couldn't possibly understand that that's vinny unless it really looks like him. not a fan.

-sephiroth didn’t even chuck the materia at cloud and then do a flip and fly away. girl you're missing all your most iconic scenes. at this point cloud's not gonna say let's mosey.

-what was the point of roche if they were just gonna essentially kill him off? i hate to sound like a broken record but girl what's the point of having all these characters when they add NOTHING. AND THEN THEY DIE.

-alright i wasn't playing the video game so maybe this was actually INCREDIBLY COMPELLING GAMEPLAY but why were half the puzzles in every area “move a big box very slowly to a location” like. damn no wonder they put that thing in the demo you're gonna be doing it in every area for the next 20 hours

-good christ the ending was so convoluted and confusing. i already don't really care for timeline convergences as a plot point, so of course this really isn’t for me, but even still it was so frustrating and hard to follow. and i think they wanted it to be that way, but that doesn't make it interesting? that doesn't make it thought provoking or compelling, it makes it frustrating and hard to follow. AND MEANINGLESS. AERITH STILL DIED. like they keep going on and on about defying fate, doing whatever, they're taking charge of destiny and whatever. oh, here comes zack to help us fight. and he’s gone. oh, here comes aerith to help us fight, and we're mourning. not cloud though! i really don't get it.

-aerith DIES!!!!!!!! THIS IS A GOOD THING I WAS WORRIED THEY'D PUSSY OUT. and well they kinda did! we don't get the iconic scene of cloud putting her in the water? like her materia falls into the water OK but that's it. it's just cloud holding her and he tells her to wake up and she does and they smile. i tell ya what, it makes a real pretty gifset! and that's it!

-really and truly what bothers me the most about this all is that to so many people, THIS is what the story of ff7 is. to many new fans, this is the only version that matters. they don't care to go back and see what originally happened because the game is old and looks “bad”. no one's getting mad at dissidia for not following exact canon and keeping everyone alive. it's not a matter of everything needing to be 100% accurate all the time. it's the fact that this IS the story of final fantasy 7 in current times. this is what people are currently viewing as default. but it's fucking up the storyline, plot progression, narrative flow, characterization, character importance. and for what? a story that's nearly impossible for someone to fully understand without having prior knowledge of the original, and adds a plot device that mocks fans that just wanted the original's story with updated graphics? that's what bothers me most.

[thecloudstan]

Thoughts regarding the changes of certain elements of the OG in "Rebirth" (e.g. Cid's personality being changed or Dyne's death)?

This is such a great question!! I'll answer for both of these because I do have thoughts, and the game is so big that I'm already forgetting some things that you guys remind me about. I'll start with Cid.

I'm not entirely convinced that Cid's personality is changed, so much as the...timeframe of his life is being shifted? I'll try to explain.

In the original, you meet Cid and he's already this grizzled asshole who is doing THE MOST, and his hatred of Shinra is so acute that he eventually starts to rival Barret for who hates that company the most. I love Cid, but I guess if anyone from the playable party had the weakest motivation, it would be him. "They stole my dream" is motivation, don't get me wrong, but doesn't it sort of pale in comparison to "they murdered our parents and burned our village; they murdered me and brainwashed the love of my life; they did EXPERIMENTS ON ME." Sorry Cid, but your trauma is a bit...hmnnggh bebi by comparison...

In Rebirth, Shinra hasn't 100% fallen from his good graces yet, at least with regard to him being ambivalent about their misdeeds because he needs to turn a profit. I think the changes to when you meet Cid, how you meet Cid, and how he behaves about Shinra boil down to two things;

1.) Game functionality. It made the most sense to introduce him sooner to give access to the world in an exploratory sense, and the only way to do this in a remotely timely manner would be to introduce him sooner. But then you kinda fuck up the placement and point of Rocket Town, so he needs some other "hook."

2.) I believe they're saving his "fall" for the third part, much like Vincent's background will be saved for the third part. We still need some dramatic flair and some reminders why everyone should hate the fascist overlord, and by then we already know very well why Barret, Tifa, Cloud, Aerith, Red, Yuffie, and even Reeve harbor those feelings.

Long story short, I think he's been set up for his own character development. It was also kinda nice to have the Tiny Bronco around before Cid's wings are totally clipped, so to speak. It was interesting to see that spark of pre-FUCK THIS SHIT Cid. One thing I do find VERY intriguing is the connection to Ifalna!!!!!! I can't wait to see how that pans out...how well did he know her? Did he have FEELINGS for her?! Is he the reason she was able to escape, even though she didn't make it far? Is Aerith walking free because of Cid Highwind?! That would be kind of gaggy, to be quite honest.

So, sure, they did adjust his personality a bit. Like I doubt he's going to verbally abuse Shera and drop F-bombs, but that's fine. They changed a lot of things from the original that just would not play well to an audience nowadays, and I get it.

Dyne stuff under the cut!!!

My husband and I fully disagree on Dyne. I'm not too assed about him not leaping to his death (I mean, he already fell into a gorge which was probably kinda traumatic???? So having him NOT choose to off himself that way could make a bit of sense). What I am most intrigued about is how he goes full fucking Tetsuo from Akira half way through the fight??

In the original game, Dyne is just a man. He's strong, but he's just a broken man. He isn't experimented on by Shinra, we have no canon understanding of him being Mako poisoned or something, he should not be capable of what Rebirth Dyne was doing during that fight with Barret. My husband has chosen to write it off as the dev team just beefing up the battle to make it more modern/difficult/fun.

I don't share this thought process. Hojo is already understanding things (in my opinion) that go above and beyond the original plot. There are already mutations in Rebirth that didn't exist in the original, and I don't know if I'm reading too much into that, but it seems to me that it's kind of an emerging theme...

SOMETHING. Happened to Dyne. Whether he...fell into the gorge and then was Mako poisoned from being too close to the blown up reactor for years...or something else...I don't know for sure. But I wouldn't be surprised if Rebirth is NOT the last we hear about what happened to Dyne. They're REALLY going in on the human experimentation thing...it's going to get quite ugly with Cloud's background (and Aerith's, I'm assuming, if Cid ever spills those beans), and just Red XIII's Trial in the Temple of the Ancients ALONE was bone-chilling. I don't have precise answers or predictions or anything, but I do think it was changed with an intention deeper than "let's make this battle harder/more cinematic."