#100% USM osborns

[guardianbee]

I'm finally sitting my ass down and watching Marvel's Spider-Man (and by watching I mean skimming for any scenes with Harry, Anya, Miles, and MJ in them) and I commend the MSM staff for trying new things out with the lore but I'm sorry the majority of the creative decisions in the third season alone just absolutely suck.

Examples:

Curt Connors is a lapdog to Norman Osborn. That goes against the very foundation of his character, especially as one of the more sympathetic and moral villains in SM's rogue gallery (I personally blame ASM1 for this). They reveal it was all for a promised cure to Connors' Lizard transformation, but the episodes leading up to that just make him out to be cartoonishly evil without any sort of moral backbone. It's fine to interpret characters in a different way for a different media/story, but aside from the Lizard persona, there's really nothing about THIS Curt Connors that makes him a well-written or even half-baked reimagining of his character. Plus his design is ugly and is such a downgrade from his USM design lmao.

Jefferson Davis is a lapdog to Norman Osborn AND had one of the worst villainous motivations ever concocted: "Oh no! my son and my neighborhood was put in danger by this superhero! so I'm going to go to this madman that caused FAR more irreparable damage to NYC and could further endanger my son and genetically alter my DNA, kidnap innocent people, and help kill my son's friends so that I may kill this one superhero." STUPID. Did they really think they were doing something here? Where is Rio to slap some sense into this man? Oh, they never introduced her? She's presumably dead?? Miles is a main character in this show and Jefferson was only in one episode before becoming Swarm? Wow, what a fantastic build-up for a character dynamic no one gives a shit about in this show!! Plus his design is ugly (the Swarm design is fine though).

I will say though I think it's borderline funny (and can now even be considered a #canon Miles Morales SM event) that when Miles reveals himself to any of his villainous relatives/friends, the first thing they do is gasp and go "Miles?!?"

This is an S1 thing but they made it my problem again in S3 so: making Jackal Gwen's uncle. I'm sorry, but that's fucking weird given his comic history with her (TLDR he's a scientist who was fucking obsessed with her and wanted to kill Spider-Man because he blamed him for her death). Why did every main character in this show NEED to have a villainous relative (luckily Anya's was a fake because that shit made no sense in canon)? None of that drama with Gwen and the Jackal and Miles and his father was compelling!! Villainous family drama is Harry Osborn's thing you just can't take it away from him!! Or at least introduce villain relatives that make SENSE - could have had Aaron Davis be Swarm instead and build his relationship with Miles from previous seasons, could have made Mark Raxton Gwen's stepbrother instead of Liz's and watched him become Molten Man. See how easy it is to create new interpretations without going against the very core of their characters?

Also did they just straight up never introduce George Stacy in this show? Again Gwen is a main fucking character how do you not introduce and have AT LEAST a few scenes between her and one of her most important and foundational relationship dynamics? Trash, man!

I didn't care for Otto in this show but his replacement, Grady, is such a downgrade. Were they contractually obligated to give Scott Menville another character to voice in S3? Because that's the only reason I can think of for this dude to be here and be one of the most annoying characters on this annoying show.

If this show just had shading it would look five times better but Disney is so cheap when it comes to its animated Marvel properties now. USM had over 100 episodes and they were ALL shaded and looked like a goddamn masterpiece compared to any episode from MSM. MSM S3 only had 12 episodes so you would THINK they could have preserved some of their budget for shading but nope! there is precisely one scene that is shaded in this entire season and it's a scene that involves Grady lmao.

Peter reveals to everyone (including VILLAINS) and their mother that he's Spider-Man. The school board meeting reveal was particularly egregious because Connors just egged him on and he just did it to save Max's job??? When a core part of Peter's dilemma throughout any piece of media is revealing himself to the ones he cares about, how they will react, and what the consequences of such an act will be for them and his superhero life? And he does that all to save a guy's job - not his life, but his JOB??? Get outta here lmao.

MJ being introduced in S3 is fine and Peter instantly falling for her is fine given that he has been instantly enamored with her in almost every other iteration of their relationship but I will say it IS a bit weird given this Peter Parker has not shown any previous interest in girls whatsoever (including Gwen!). MJ's also in just a handful of scenes with Peter and I would have really liked for her to be a stronger supporting character for the third season with a believable romance (because Peter all but confesses he wants to be with her for the rest of their lives in the series finale which is very cute but also feels random when she's been a total of four episodes and has a screentime of MAYBE fifteen minutes in the entire show).

Harry is in like two episodes in S3 and I feel like that was very much a #choice from the writers. If Norman isn't involved, why would Harry be? And that's just a disservice to Harry's character - he's more than his relationship with his father and I thought the MSM writers understood that - the USM writers did!

Tony Stark bankrolling Peter and his friends to create a tech startup is so antithetical to SM as a whole but it is so fucking funny and I know it's because of MCU Spider-Man and I hate it here. MCU Spider-Man has caused irreparable damage to my psyche and the SM mythos at large and I'm so glad that shit has been retconned into oblivion (thank you OMD you were good for precisely one thing).

ANYWAY, these are all my thoughts and I'm right when I say USM might have had a quirkier, 4th wall-breaking Peter Parker and made him a lapdog for SHEILD with stupid fucking tech like the spider-cycle but at least their main villains were well-developed, the Osborns were the best part of that show, almost all the main characters had satisfying conclusions, AND Peter didn't reveal his identity willy-nilly and was a contentious plot point throughout.

[hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger]

“It could be argued we’re in a new golden age”

No it couldn’t.

Decompression+most people ignoring established characterization+Event after event+Constant relaunches = This is a shitty era.

“There’s quality no matter where you look”

Unless you look at Heroes in Crisis, Rosenberg’s X-Men run, Ghost Spider and like a dozen other places I could name

“It’s just a great time to be a comic book fan”

I sure do enjoy Didio helped to wreck DC again and the media yelling at me for being a monster because I think Carol Danvers ain’t shit.

“There is a force preventing characters changing too radically”

He says showing an image of Superman Reborn which...did change things radically by entrenching firmly that Superman is, was and will be a married guy with a son.

And that was in an effort to FIX a Superman that was rebooted to MAKE him more mainstream.

“This is a recent phenomenon”

Not really. It started being a thing in the 1990s so like 20-30 years ago and it was the order of the day back before the 1960s.

“Developments were lasting”

He says showing a cover from Death of Superman which 100% did not last! Lol

“Sliding timelines existed but there was at least the illusion of linear progression”

Er...Sliding timelines and an illusion of progression have little to do with one another.

Spider-Man WAS progression between the 1960s-1980s and it was no illusion. The fact that circa 1989 he didn’t actually get bitten in 1962 anymore didn’t change that.

“Does anyone believe genuine change will last forever”

They HOPE it will. Time tells us one way or the other.

“They didn’t have to worry about continuity as much in the 1960s”

Yes they did, continuity was baked it pretty much from day 1 with Marvel.

“No one ever worried about sliding timelines”

Wasn’t the sliding timeline established IN the 1960s IIRC?

“Spider-Man was 15 when he was first introduced”

False. As ORIGINALLY envisioned by Lee and Ditko Peter was not 15. He was stated to be a senior in issue #8 and scholarshipswere discussed in AF #15. Him being 15 was a retcon.

“Norman Osborn wasn’t intended to be resurrected”

This is true but this makes the false argument that Norman’s return to life acted as a reset which it absolutely didn’t.

Not only was HARRY’s death a major lasting change that altered Norman and his dynamic with Peter but the nature of Norman as a character and his relationship with Peter was fundamentally different after he returned than before he died.

“Older Spider-Man stories never had to worry about onscreen influences”

No they didn’t but they tried resetting spidey long before a movie happened. And the movies existence doesn’t demand you synch anything up either.

“Ben Reilly was introduced because Marvel were too afraid to make Spider-Man a father”

False. Peter’s impending parenthood occurred BECAUSE they introduced Ben Reilly.

“Marvel chickened out in the Clone Saga”

Noooo, Marvel realized everyone was incredibly angry about the Clone Saga and reversed gears.

“If you’d only been reading Spider-Man for the last 10 years you’d find the idea that Spider-Man could have a family bonkers”

No they wouldn’t, it’s a huge thing people know via osmosis and even if they didn’t Renew Your Vows was a thing between 2015-2018!

These videos all act like revealing the details of OMD are a shocking revelation when like everyone knows about that!

“Ultimate Spider-Man was outperforming 616 Spider-Man in sales and critical acclaim”

False. ASM and USM sales and critical reception vacillated, both were regarded as financial and critical successes between 2001-2007. During Civil War and Back in Black ASm was outselling USm.

“Marvel made peter more in line with how he used to be and with no burden of 40 years of continuity”

In theory sure, not in practice. More importantly that was still not in line with USM which was still very distinct.

Also FALSE. All the continuity was still there post-OMD sans the fact he got married.

“Making Daredevi’s identity secret again was a regression”

No it wasn’t it was fixing a decade of irresponsible storytelling.

The only problem with progression is the people at the top’s reluctance to commit to change. Nothing more and nothing less

[junker-town]

The top 100 games of the 2017-18 college football season

We start off the week with 100-71.

We did it. After 834 regular season games, 40 bowl games, 4,376 Nick Saban scowls, and one hell of a national championship game, the college football season is over. To remember and honor the season that was, I (along with a little help from the rest of the SB Nation college football crew) am going to count down the best 100 games of the season. We’ll unveil 30 games at a time on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, then count down the top 10 on Friday.

100 - 71

70 - 41 (Wed.)

40 - 11 (Thurs.)

10 - 1 (Fri.)

Let’s get to the list:

100. Jan. 1: Notre Dame 21, LSU 17

When a one-handed catch-and-run decides a battle of two famous helmets, it’s on the list.

99. Oct. 7: Southern Miss 31, UTSA 29

UTSA was Conference USA’s best team in September and entered 3-0. Southern Miss was 2-2 and coming off of a disappointing loss to North Texas.

UTSA led, 13-7, at half, but USM opened up the spigot. Keon Howard hit Quez Watkins for a 48-yard score late in the third, then Ito Smith erupted for an 89-yard TD run. The Roadrunners responded with 16 fourth-quarter points. They needed 18. After a touchdown from Dalton Sturm to Marquez McNair with 48 seconds left, Sturm’s two-point attempt failed.

98. Dec. 24: Fresno State 33, Houston 27

Fresno State flipped from 11 losses to 10 wins in Jeff Tedford’s first season, winning the MWC West and coming three points short of the conference title. They capped with a Hawaii Bowl full of twists.

You had Houston blocking a 24-yard field goal and returning it 94 yards, turning a likely 23-13 Fresno lead into a 20-20 tie. With the Bulldogs up 26-20 and under four minutes left, UH was nearing midfield with a chance to lead when Jaron Bryant had a 44-yard pick six for the clincher.

97. Nov. 24: Buffalo 31, Ohio 24

Buffalo broke through in Lance Leipold’s third year. After winning seven games in his first two years, the Bulls went 6-6 and won their final three games to finish bowl eligible (albeit bowl-free).

The last win was the most impressive. Against an eventual nine-win Ohio, the Bulls raced to a 24-7 first-quarter lead thanks to two Tyree Jackson touchdown passes and a Chuck Harris fumble return. The Bobcats came back, but KJ Osborn returned a punt to the Ohio 6-yard line midway through the fourth, and Emmanuel Reed punched the ball in. Ohio drove to the UB 5 with under 90 seconds left, but a Khalil Hodge interception sealed the deal.

96. Sept. 30: Troy 24, LSU 21

Under Neal Brown, Troy had its first 10-win FBS season in 2016, then its first 11-win FBS season in 2017. And the Trojans knocked off the big boys in Baton Rouge.

95. Sept. 23: Arizona State 37, Oregon 35

ASU was 1-2 and in desperate need of a turnaround. They scored 17 first-quarter points and took a 31-14 lead. But the Ducks went on a 21-3 run midway through the fourth quarter.

No worries! ASU responded with an 11-play, four-minute drive, and a 41-yard Brandon Ruiz field goal. Oregon turned the ball over on downs twice, and the Sun Devils hung on.

94. Nov. 4: Arkansas 39, Coastal Carolina 38

Arkansas fans won’t rank this among their favorite comebacks, but it was fun for a neutral party. CCU took an 11-point lead on Nicholas Clark’s 31-yard fumble return and led by 13 in the fourth quarter.

Arkansas’ T.J. Hammonds ripped off an 88-yard run with 10 minutes left, however, and Cole Kelley capped an 11-play touchdown drive with a one-yard score with 1:55 remaining. This upset bid only lasted 58 minutes, and Bret Bielema got to keep his job for a couple more weeks.

93. Nov. 9: North Carolina 34, Pitt 31 92. Nov. 18: Virginia Tech 20, Pitt 14

Pitt wrecked Miami’s plans for an unbeaten season, and the Panthers used a freshman quarterback to do it. To make matters even more impressive? They did so after gut-wrenching losses.

They came back from down double digits to lead UNC at home in the fourth quarter, only to fall back behind, punt with three minutes left, then fail to make a stop.

Then, they took a fourth-quarter lead at Virginia Tech, only to fall victim to Cam Phillips’ 23-yard TD reception. This time, the offense responded. Jester Weah took a slant 74 yards to the VT 1 with under a minute left ... and VT got three stuffs.

91. Nov. 25: Ohio State 31, Michigan 20

J.T. Barrett won approximately 11 million games as Ohio State’s quarterback, but we got a glimpse of a post-Barrett future when he left The Game with injury.

Blue-chipper Dwayne Haskins came in for his first meaningful action and went 6-for-7 for 94 yards, adding three carries for 24 yards. His 22-yard run set up the go-ahead, and the Buckeyes scored 17 in his four drives.

Photo by Lon Horwedel/Icon Sportswire via Getty Images

90. Dec. 30: Mississippi State 31, Louisville 27

In Lamar Jackson’s final game at Louisville, a younger quarterback — MSU freshman Keytaon Thompson — stole the show.

89. Nov. 25: Duke 31, Wake Forest 23

It’s hard to lose six straight and still make a bowl, but that’s what Duke did, falling from 4-0 to 4-6 and then rallying. They were 5-6 when they went to Winston-Salem, and they spotted Wake Forest a 17-3 lead.

Rally, they did. Daniel Jones’ one-yard run gave the Blue Devils the lead in the fourth, and Brittain Brown’s four-yard score made it 31-23. Mark Gilbert’s midfield interception sealed a bowl bid, and Duke took advantage with a romp over NIU in the Quick Lane Bowl.

88. Sept. 16: Texas Tech 52, Arizona State 45 87. Oct. 7: Texas 40, Kansas State 34 86. Oct. 21: West Virginia 38, Baylor 36 85. Nov. 4: Kansas State 42, Texas Tech 35 84. Nov. 11: Oklahoma State 49, Iowa State 42

Every year sees a batch of Big 12 shootouts. There are a few further up the list, too.

In Week 3, Tech’s Nic Shimonek threw for 543 yards and six touchdowns, and the Red Raiders needed every bit to survive an ASU comeback. Tech led 35-17 at halftime, but two Manny Wilkins touchdown passes in six minutes tied it before Dylan Cantrell capped a 90-yard drive with the winning score.

In Week 6, Texas beat Kansas State for just the third time in 10 tries. The Longhorns were down by 10, but Joshua Rowland’s late field goal forced overtime, and the UT offense caught fire. Sam Ehlinger hit Jerrod Heard for a 25-yard score in the first OT, then Chris Warren III bulled for the winner.

In Week 8, Baylor nearly pulled of an insane comeback. The then-winless Bears trailed 38-13, but Trestan Ebner scored on a 52-yard catch and a 40-yard run to make it 38-27. It was 38-30 in the closing seconds when Ebner scored on a nine-yard pass from Charlie Brewer. WVU swallowed up the two-point conversion, however.

In Week 10, KSU found overtime redemption, coming back from 35-24 down in the fourth and tying on a Skylar Thompson score and a Dalton Schoen conversion. In OT, Thompson found Pringle for the go-ahead score, and Shimonek’s fourth-and-goal pass fell incomplete. Shimonek threw for 405 in a loss.

In Week 11, ISU nearly pulled a third upset of a top-15 opponent, leading 42-34 with under six minutes left. But Mason Rudolph and Marcell Ateman connected for a 30-yard score, a Justice Hill conversion tied it, and Rudolph found Dillon Stoner for the go-ahead two minutes later. ISU drove to the OSU 4 with 32 seconds left, but A.J. Green picked it off in the end zone.

83. Oct. 21: Oklahoma State 13, Texas 10

For a changeup, one of the best games of the Big 12 season was an anti-shootout. And it ended with one terrible dose of miscommunication.

82. Oct. 7: Kentucky 40, Missouri 34 81. Nov. 24: Missouri 48, Arkansas 45

Former Big 12 member Missouri did its best to bring the spirit to the SEC, averaging nearly 38 per game and rallying from 1-5 to 7-6. They only played in two particularly close games, but both were shootouts.

In Lexington, the Tigers spotted Kentucky a 13-0 lead before trading a barrage: Drew Lock threw touchdowns of 50, 58, and 75 yards, while UK scored on a 71-yard Benny Snell run and a 64-yard pass to Garrett Johnson. Mizzou was driving with a chance at the lead, but Lock couldn’t find tight end Albert Okwuegbunam on the final play.

Mizzou got its road shootout win a few weeks later. In Bielema’s final game, the Tigers again spotted their hosts a lead (21-7) but took a 31-28 lead at halftime. Lock broke the SEC’s single-season touchdowns record, and with the game tied at 45, Mizzou went on a five-minute drive and sealed with a field goal.

80. Sept. 30: Ohio 58, UMass 50 79. Sept. 16: Toledo 54, Tulsa 51

A week after beating EMU in overtime, Ohio survived a wild shootout. It was 27-27 at halftime, and the Bobcats went on a 21-2 run, but UMass kept coming back, and it wasn’t until Dorian Brown’s 42-yard run with 1:42 left that Ohio escaped.

The most MACtion-worthy game happened two weeks earlier. Eventual conference champ Toledo spotted Tulsa a 28-7 lead. Two long Diontae Thompson touchdowns gave Toledo the lead, but the Golden Hurricane tied it with 2:47 left, until Jameson Vest’s field goal at the buzzer.

78. Oct. 26: NIU 30, EMU 27

The Eagles’ hopes of a second straight bowl were dashed by gut-wrenching losses. After a 2-0 start, they lost to Ohio in OT, at Kentucky by four, at Toledo by five, at Army by one, and to WMU in OT.

In desperate need of a win, they took a 24-10 lead early in the fourth quarter ... and gave up two touchdown drives. A field goal gave the Eagles a lead in OT, but Marcus Jones’ run gave NIU the win. You won’t ever see another six-game losing streak this competitive.

77. Oct. 14: Memphis 30, Navy 27 76. Oct. 19: Memphis 42, Houston 38 75. Oct. 21: USF 34, Tulane 28 74. Nov. 11: Navy 43, SMU 40

Y’all noticed that the AAC was fun as hell again, right? UCF dominated headlines, and the Knights’ final two conference wins are further up the list. But those weren’t the only doozies.

In Week 7, Memphis scored its second win of the year against a ranked team, falling behind 19-17 but finding a 13-0 run. Navy’s Zach Abey cut Memphis’ lead to three with 3:25 left, but Austin Hall picked him off to bag the win.

Five days later in Houston, the Tigers were down 24-7 with 21 minutes left. But Tony Pollard’s 93-yard kickoff return and three Patrick Taylor touchdowns got them within 38-35. And after Memphis stuffed a third-and-1 rush, Riley Ferguson drove the Tigers 80 yards in eight plays, finding Sean Dykes for the win.

Two days after that, USF took its foot off the gas against a resilient Tulane. The Bulls led 34-7 midway through the third, but Sherman Badie’s 34-yard run cut it to 20, and two Dontrell Hilliard scores cut to six with 2:45 left. But on third-and-3 with the game on the line, USF’s Darius Tice raced 30 yards to end it.

Navy has a comeback-proof offense, but SMU whittled away at a 34-11 halftime lead. Courtland Sutton’s 29-yard touchdown catch with 3:32 left tied the game at 40, but Navy got one last chance, milking every second and riding two big Anthony Gargiulo runs to set up a winning kick by J.R. Osborn.

73. Nov. 4: UCF 31, SMU 24

Of the Knights’ first 10 games, only one was particularly challenging. The big plays started early — SMU’s James Proche scored on an 86-yard catch-and-run six minutes in, and UCF responded with an 80-yard pass 15 minutes later.

Adrian Killins’ 64-yard score gave UCF a 28-17 lead in the third, but SMU cut it to 28-24. The Mustangs worked into Knight territory twice in the fourth but couldn’t break through.

72. Sept. 2: Liberty 48, Baylor 45 71. Sept. 2: Howard 43, UNLV 40

Every season features fun FCS-over-FBS upsets, and we saw a wild duo in Week 1.

Soon-to-be-FBS Liberty ruined Matt Rhule’s Baylor debut by posting 585 yards and going on a 21-7 second-half run to take a 48-38 lead. Baylor made it 48-45, but Brandon Tillmon ended it with a last-second interception.

Later that night, we saw technically the biggest upset of all time. UNLV was somehow a 45-point favorite over Howard — UNLV should not have been a 45-point favorite over anybody — but fell victim to one hell of a debut by Caylin Newton. Cam’s little brother rushed for 190 yards and threw for 140 more. The Bison withstood a 24-0 run and came back from 33-21 down to score 22 of the final 29 points. This was a thriller, even if “biggest upset ever!” might oversell it.

Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty Images

Caylin Newton (3)

Check back all this week for the rest of the Top 100.

100 - 71

70 - 41 (Wed.)

40 - 11 (Thurs.)

10 - 1 (Fri.)