#Going to KL for Important Umber Things

[targaryen-stronghold]

Dany deliberately targeting innocents in KL was horrible and OOC af, but I think what really irritated me was Tyrion's condemnation and shock. He's so shocked she didn't listen to his advice when the city surrendered. Like, DUDE, what counsel have you given her in the last 2 seasons that has ACTUALLY WORKED? Tyrion lost Dany her allies. He told her Cersei would keep her word. He told her the North would support her if she fought for them. (1/?)

(2/2) He told her to treat with Cersei, and Missandei was beheaded. Literally, Tyrion was one of the WORST things/people to happen to Daenerys (Besides Jon Snow and Sansa Snark). Literally what reason did Daenerys have to believe anything that came out of Tyrion's mouth? Everything he advised her to do ended badly for her. She was punished for listening to her advisors. And then harshly judged, side-eyed, gaslighted, and treated like she was crazy when she wasn't. Ugh.

You are absolutely right. Let’s start by saying that Dany killing innocents “because reasons” is total bullshit. This woman couldn’t even look at innocent people murdering each other for sport in the fighting pits of Meereen. It was tradition but she was 100% against it because innocent people died for so good reason at all. She accepted it because it was important to her people. She locked up her own dragons to prevent them from killing another child or harm anyone else. She used her dragons to fight her opponents because that’s what smart people do and dragons are her power, she doesn’t need to wield a sword. However, she only killed soldiers and people who opposed her because that’s what all monarchs do if they want to rule. 

There are shameless double-standards regarding Dany in this fandom because she’s a woman who commands the most powerful forces in the lore. She also embodies both female and male energy and traits - and this makes fragile men feel threatened and women with internalized misogyny feel uncomfortable. Other male characters did far worse than she in their quest for power and they aren’t treated as harshly as she is. Tywin literally slaughtered an entire House because they rebel against the Lannisters. Robb and his troops destroyed the Riverlands; the innocent people who lived there didn’t care about Ned Stark or the Northern Independence, they just want to live in peace - for them the Red Wedding was a blessing (actually by “avenging” the Red Wedding and killing every male Frey in GOT, Arya probably caused a fight among the other Houses to decide who would take control over the Riverlands. Of course this is glossed-over because the Starks are moral superior to every other character and can do no wrong). Jaime commanded the slaughter of everyone in Highgarden: including innocent men, women and children. Not only that but King Bran saw fit to name one of those murderers to take hold of Highgarden in the end: I bet the surviving farmers who were terrorized by Bronn and the Lannister soldiers feel really safe now. The Starks also fought to get back their home. It doesn’t matter if it was their ancestral home: it belonged to House Bolton by royal decree. They had to take it back by force and many Northern houses didn’t even support them. Afterwards, Sansa even wanted to strip Lord Umber (a child) and Lady Karstark (a teenager) of their ancestral homes because their parents fought against in Starks in the Battle of the Bastards. Fortunately for these kids, Jon opposed to this idea. 

When I saw “The Bells” I couldn’t believe my eyes. The stupidity of it. First, the ringing of bells doesn’t even mean surrender in the GOT/ASOIAF universe and that’s well established (ever since Season 2) but I guess Dumb and Dumber kind of forgot. Second, Dany had no reason whatsoever to target innocent people in the streets when Cersei was locked in the Red Keep. She only needed to fly to Red Keep and be done with it. She would eventually kill innocents in the process but at the very least it would have made sense. When I read the leaks, I thought it would go down like this. But instead, they made her burn down several streets before getting to Red Keep for no good reason at all.  Cersei doesn’t care about the people and Dany knows this. Some can justify it as revenge for Missandei’s death but that’s bollocks. Those people didn’t kill or cheer for Missandei’s death: they probably don’t even know about her. At its core, this was only a plot device to make Jon look heroic while murdering her in the next episode and for Tyrion not to look like a traitor.

And this, ladies and gents, is how you ruin a TV series.

As for Tyrion suddenly caring about the people of King’s Landing is yet another Dumb and Dumber bullshit. Tyrion doesn’t care about the people: he is selfish in both books and show and he craves power too, mostly because the wants his father’s approval. Tyrion even wanted all these people dead a few seasons ago and resented saving their lives when Stannis attacked the city. The same with Varys: he fed Aerys’ paranoia by constantly telling him about traitors and acting like a snitch but in the TV show they had him all remorseful about witnessing Aerys’ burning people he considered traitors.  He even sided with a King that commanded the sack of King’s Landing (leading to the murder and rape of innocents) and laughed at dead children (Elia’s children) as they were placed at his feet by Tywin. 

Was Tyrion really on Dany’s side? Because he clearly didn’t want his siblings hurt or killed. And he knew Cersei would never give up her power and Jaime would stay by her side. He persuaded Jon to do his dirty work (= killing Dany) to save his own skin because he knows he would probably be executed for treason, not because he cared about the people. 

What they made Dany do in GOT is wrong and off-character. But what House Stark, House Baratheon, House Arryn and House Lannister did in the sack of King’s Landing was far worse so people really should stop acting so self-righteous. Drogon turned those innocents into dust in a matter of seconds because dragonfire is hot as hell, but when those soldiers raped and murdered it wasn’t so quick and the women who were raped had to live with the trauma and probably with the offspring of that rape. Ned opposed to it and went to look for Lyanna, yes. But his soldiers and the other Northern houses didn’t follow him: they stayed in King’s Landing murdering and raping until they had enough. That’s fucking disgusting. It’s also fucking sickening painting Dany as the ultimate evil of the series when all of this happened.  

[kitten1618x]

Jonsa Battlements Convo Analysis (for the worried shippers)

I actually wrote this when replying to a thread, but figured it would reach more of you if I tagged it appropriately and posted it as a meta (bear with me, I kinda suck at these). I see a lot of asks floating around about what many feel is Jon's ooc behavior while conversing with Sansa, so I'm here to (hopefully) put some of you at ease.

I went back and watched the beginning of this ep. again so everything would be fresh in my mind.

So let’s start from the top at the Stark town hall meeting lol - Jon’s laying down the game plan, and Karstarks and Umbers come up along with the word treason (I feel like this is a good time to mention that this is probably a touchy word for Jon considering what happened on the Wall). So we all know the convo, we all know that Sansa interjects her opinion. She’s not wrong, but I’ve mentioned before that I agree with Jon’s reasoning on this matter. But, let’s break this down a bit more - a war is upon them and the WW are coming and Jon KNOWS they don’t have the numbers (as clearly mentioned when he ordered that girls/women would have to take up arms as well) -he needs everyone united.

Taking this a bit further, we all know that Jon’s KitN status is tenuous at best, and so he needs it to be clear to his “subjects” that he is a STRONG leader and that his say is the final one. At the end of this scene, when Jon talks about living by Ned’s words: “the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword” he lets everyone know that he’s been betrayed and executed men for not following his orders, but he’s also a fair man, and doesn’t believe in bestowing the sins of the fathers onto the children. It’s a moving speech really, and when he beckons the children forward and they bend the knee and swear to house Stark, the camera pans to Sansa’s face TWICE - the first time she’s looking up at Jon and then afterwards, her eyes are lowered and she’s looking down and the scene cuts with LF smirking in his creepy Chester way. Now, I get the impression that Sansa’s expression is ambiguous for a reason- and we are left to interpret it in two ways: she resents Jon for going against her, OR she realizes that what he says rings true and therefore lowers her eyes a bit shamefully (and maybe that’s not exactly the best word to use, but I hope you all pick up what I’m throwing down here -like when someone brings up a better point than you, and you know deep down that they’re right). I’m going with the latter, and I’ll explain in a bit more detail below.

I know I’m not alone here in thinking that Jon, Sansa and their advisors should have probably discussed this prior to the meeting, however, they are new to this “ruling Winterfell together” thing, and are learning as they go. I think the writers wanted to make that painfully obvious.

So moving along, and now they’re walking through Winterfell and Jon seems tense and agitated, walking a bit ahead of Sansa, as they hash out their differences. I reiterate: they are talking about it, NOT burying their disagreement and allowing it to fester and drive a wedge between them. That’s an important distinction, even though I believe the writers are trying very hard to tease a “growing conflict” between the two of them -but not exactly the type of conflict that you would see at face value. Does that make sense?

Sansa is more bold here in her home, she doesn’t have to keep her mouth shut like she did in KL -she feels safe in Winterfell, and safe enough around Jon to express how she really feels about things. That’s really fucking important you guys!!! And so, she DOES.

J: you are my sister, but I am king now.

S: will you start wearing a crown?

This is blatant sarcasm. Don’t let the power go to your head, Jon. He may be the KitN but she is also the true born heir to Winterfell, and NOT ONCE has she made mention of that or tried to wield her power over him. She just wants to be heard. She brings up Joffrey as a warning -he was a cruel little selfish shit who did what he wanted, when he wanted, with no thought to consequences or how it would affect others. He let no one question his authority. He wasn’t a good king.

J: do you think I am Joffrey?

Jon says this with utter disgust -in both inflection and his facial expression. He’s insulted, visibly upset, and it stops him dead in his tracks. Sansa comes around to stand before him, she looks away and sighs, her features soften. Of course Jon is NOTHING like Joffrey. She tells him so in a very sincere and heartfelt way.

S: you are as far from Joffrey as anyone I’ve ever met.

Jon thanks her sincerely for the obvious compliment and quickly looks away and down at the landscape. Why is he having such a hard time looking at her lately? Especially when he couldn’t keep his eyes OFF OF HER last season?? What’s with all this Starkbowl tension of an unusual kind?

Now earlier I said I’d explain why I felt Sansa's expressions (and looking down) in the last scene meant I felt the latter -that she believed Jon was right in what he did even if she didn’t fully agree with it - what she says next pretty much seals the deal for me.

S: you’re good at this, you know?

J: at what?

S: at ruling.

J: no. (He sighs and looks away again).

S: you are. YOU ARE (I’m on mobile, so pretend my caps are italics for inflection instead).

Sansa is persistent. She really does believe he is a good King. A good man. Our sweet Emo Jon really has the lowest of low self esteem. He wants to be worthy of the name Stark. Worthy of Sansa. His expression here is so fucking important, guys! His eyes are downcast, and he drags them up to look her in the eyes. Sansa believes in him -the approval he always sought from Lady Catelyn (who Sansa is portrayed so much as very similar to her mother), who never let him forget that he was an (unworthy) bastard. And here’s where it gets sticky -

S: they believe in you, they really do (a sort of eye-roll) but you have to ….

Jon gives a sardonic shake of his head and a laugh to accompany it. He almost believed her and he feels like the joke is on him. Sansa asks why he’s laughing, because she TRULY is being sincere, but Jon feels like she’s just placating him. He brushes past her and starts walking again. Their gait is a bit slower now, but he still walks in front of her, explaining what Ned said/meant about “anything that comes before ‘but’ is horse shit”.

S: the world is dirty -father couldn’t protect me, and neither can you, so stop trying. (I can handle the truth, remember the chat we had about being honest with each other -heed your own advice Jon).

J: right. I’ll stop trying to protect you when you stop trying to undermine me.

S: I’m not trying to undermine you. 
(Dammit Jon, listen to me. I’m on your side.)

She grabs his arm and forces him to stop and face her. He sighs again, looks down at where she’s holding onto him, and again drags his eyes up her body before meeting her gaze (FYI: this in itself is a romance trope and it’s funny that the cameras pan in on her grabbing his arm -like “hey! See what we’re doing here in plain sight?”). She tells him he has to be smarter than Robb and Father -they were good men, honorable men, she loves and misses them, but they made stupid mistakes which cost them their lives (and she doesn’t want the same fate to befall you Jon, duh!).

Jon: and how should I be smarter? By listening to you?

Sigh. This is an asinine statement, and I agree, quite OOC for Jon, but okay, bear with me here, Jon needed to say something to keep this “tension” bubbling -and I think this was tossed in here simply for her reply.

S: (voice so very soft and imploring, her pretty blue eyes boring into him) Would that really be so terrible?

Jon sighs again -like a full-on, heavy body sigh. His own expression softens (note how closely and intimately they are standing now?) and he looks like he’s about to say something, and then they’re interrupted. (Ned/Cat parallel from S01xE01).

[harlowumber-blog-blog-blog]

   "Well, o'course the Southerners will want me in King's Landing. Don't sound so uncertain."