#I have so many mixed feelings about s7 but above all at least we got this glorious masterpiece of an episode

[uglygirlstatus]

at least we’ll always have Archie: The Musical

[jaimetheexplorer]

I brought down by niks latest interview.Saying "J never needed redemp.He was a guy who certain circumstances in his life e.g. Kingslayer so then he needed to redeem himself bc he did this horrible thing when killing the Mad King. Then N said the redemp arc where he had to be good guy, stay with Bri etc that's not GOT.You cant erase ur prev life.Jaime bel that redeem urself meant redeeming his past and he couldnt. He can't cut off who he was.The idea of leaving C alone is impossible to him" Wtf?

2/2 Downhearted anon. Just that interview makes no sense. In prev season interviews, wasnt Nik wanting Jaime to escape Cersei for good and be with Braime forever, like he was the biggest Braime shipper??? I dont understand. Does he think ppl don’t remember stuff? Its a shame theres no way to ask him about this.

Dear Downhearted anon,

I have to admit I read only a short excerpt from that interview, so I might have missed some of the other content, but, from what I read, this is what I can say.

There are different layers to his comments, IMO. One is the take on the story, and the other is the justification of the writing choices. And, as much as I might vehemently disagree with the former, what I take issue with is the latter.

When it comes to the take on the story, we have to remember that he has to talk about the actual content of the show. The show, unfortunately, did go with the idea that Jaime is essentially doomed to never escape his past. I do not believe that is his arc in the books for many reasons, and I think it was extremely underwhelming, nihlistic and unsatisfying even just taking the context of the show into account. But, unfortunately, nihilistic and unsatisfying is what we got. The show was aiming for romanticizing incest and abuse romantic tragedy with JC, in the end (I actually think there was a far more disastrous chain of events at play, which required multiple OOC developments for multiple major characters just to arrive to Jon killing Dany - but that’s a longer story), and it is what it is. He has to talk about the reality of the episodes, not the alternatives.

If you take most of Nik’s comments, and go back to read D&D’s and Cogman’s interviews from the past, you’ll notice that it’s mostly stuff that’s lifted straight from their quotes, even down to the language: “good guy/bad guy”, “he doesn’t have a redemption arc”, “it’s just life, and he has made some mistakes”. I don’t know whether this is because he had a “final season” briefing with them and came around to see things their way and agree, or because he was told this is what he was supposed to say about the story, or because even though he doesn’t agree with it, this is what was written in the end and so this is what he talks about. His reasoning for saying these things is anybody’s guess and kind of beyond the point. But, where before he used to have his own take on the character and his arc, he’s now basically regurgitating the party line.

For my part, I never completely disagreed with the idea that Jaime does not need redemption per se. Jaime doesn’t need atonement for slaying the Mad King, for sure. He needs recognition for that. He needs atonement for a other horrible things he’s done, but even those (e.g., pushing Bran, the incest) are more about moral gray areas areas than villainous behaviour per se, since he’s never committed atrocious acts just for his own selfish gain, or for power, or because he enjoyed hurting and killing. More importantly, I have always seen Jaime’s story as more of an identity arc, where redemption is just one component. In that sense, I can agree with the take that that he is a “complex character who, at times, has made some terrible mistakes”. Jaime is not, and never was, a straightforward villain who needs to atone for his sins. He’s a much more complex and layered mix of sins and honour, and goodness and idealism turned bitterness and cynicism, and a messy product of living most of his life in toxic and abusive environments who, in some situations, has committed some horrible mistakes that he needs to own up to and face the consequences of, and who is trying to redefine and reinvent himself in the aftermath of some life-changing events such as losing his hand, meeting Brienne and growing disillusioned with Cersei. 

The problem is that, while D&D preach about Jaime being a complex character who does not need a ‘cheesy’ linear redemption arc, they also, in the same breath, justify an ending that shoves him precisely into a clear, black-and-white, simplistic category (”he just accepts he is a hateful man”) or display the psychological depth of a 5th grader (go check out their take on the sept scene in their Oxford Union Q&A and their inability to think in any more complex terms than “good guy/bad guy” or to understand that not all “bad” actions are equal). They’re not deep writers, and that shows painfully in their execution. But I can understand the “no need for redemption” arc, from a theoretical/philosophical perspective.

What I take far more issue with is justifying writing choices by attempting to play the realism card, or the adult writing card, or the “this is GoT” card, basically implying that everyone who dislikes or criticize it is being unrealistic, immature or unsophisticated for not accepting the only inevitable outcome to a story (I wrote a twitter thread about it this week). Just because your story has decided to depict things in a certain way, it does not mean that that is the only realistic option for the story, and that people who expected/wanted/hoped for something different were fooling themselves, let alone that it had to be written that way because that is how life works.

Sure, there are people who fail to break away from their (abusive, traumatic, toxic, what have you) past and move on, but there are also plenty of people who do, and who end up thriving. One outcome isn’t any more realistic or true to life than the others. And, while some might think this is a hyperbole, it is highly irresponsible, IMO, to say that being unable to escape toxicity and your past is “the way things are”, when there might be people out there who do struggle with trauma, toxic and abusive relationship (or know people who do).

On top of that, it is rather silly to imply that we were expecting some unrealistic, too-easy scenario, where Jaime flipped a switch and totally erased his past overnight. That implication is misguided, at best, and dishonest, at worst. We put up with four entire seasons of show-only “non-linear” storytelling when it comes to Jaime, and were incredibly patient with it. Wasn’t the point of those four seasons precisely to show that life is complicated and he couldn’t just let go of his past so easily? We watched that. It happened. Nothing about this was easy or unearned.

Had we been shown a Jaime who was 100%, stupidly and completely devoted to Cersei at every turn, cruel, evil, selfish and not caring about the innocents, of course expecting an outcome where he just leaves it all behind for a honourable wench or what have you would have been a ridiculous expectation to have. Indeed, back when Jaime did come across as that kind of character, nobody was expecting anything from him. He could have died with Cersei under those bricks and most wouldn’t have cared.

Instead, for years, we were shown a Jaime that did struggle between his toxic past/Cersei and his honour and, far more often than not, we saw his honour win out. While I can see an argument for saying that didn’t guarantee an outcome where he did break free of his past for good, it’s not like like there was no buildup or seeding for the more positive, less nihilistic alternative. So I don’t find it so far fetched to have expected the events of S7 to be the last straw that finally tipped the scales completely to the other side (especially considering how 8x02 was written very heavily to imply just that or, at the very least, did not seed any doubt).

By Nikolaj’s own admission in TONS of interviews, he had been fighting with D&D for years because he expected things to move in a certain direction and kept getting frustrated when they didn’t, or when they confused him. He wanted the exact same things we wanted for Jaime and in his relationships with Cersei and Brienne since SEASON 2. He might have resigned himself in the end to having lost the battle, but he behaved exactly like us for years. So, assuming he believes what he is saying, if I could talk to him, I’d ask him how is it that he got the same feeling of “expectation” for something that in the end never came? Maybe because the seeding for both options were there all along? Maybe because, if the seeding for both options were there all along, the alternative isn’t so far fetched and inconceivable after all? Maybe because if the alternative isn’t so far fetched and inconceivable after all, then what we got isn’t the only inevitable way this could go down? Food for thought.

Of course, I want to believe that he isn’t that tone-deaf and unsophisticated as an actor (and a writer) not to realize that the only problem with the way Jaime and JB were written in S8 was not the fact that they didn’t get a HEA. Ignoring the writing quality, for a moment, and just focusing on the writing choices, there were literally dozens of ways of writing a story that ended even in a similar tragedy (EVEN with Jaime dying with Cersei), that would have been far better and more satisfying than what we got. The problem isn’t that Jaime didn’t declare his everlasting love for Brienne or that he didn’t stay together with her. The problem is that we patiently waited through all the buildup and seeding mentioned above, for years, for a relationship that ended up being butchered within 30 minutes, destroying literally everything it ever stood for (first and foremost trust and respect - I am not going to list everything, but Jaime trying to sneak out without so much of a goodbye and being completely indifferent to her pain after she vouched for him and saved his life multiple times was not only OOC, but completely unnecessary to the plot, unless it aimed to destroy the foundations of their bond, way beyond the romance).

To conclude, I’ll leave you with GRRM’s own words, when asked about Jaime’s redemption arc that he, unlike the show, has explicitly stated he wishes to explore:

“I want there to be a possibility of redemption for us, because we all do terrible things. We should be able to be forgiven. Because if there’s no possibility of redemption, what’s the answer then?”

The show decided that the answer is that we don’t escape our past. We are doomed from the beginning and any attempt to change and move on is eventually futile (and that ended up being true of nearly every character in the show, not just Jaime). But that doesn’t seem to be at all the stance GRRM has on this whole thing, and I would dare anyone to tell me that GRRM’s vision and his writing are inferior, too easy, or less realistic than what we got from the show.

There’s no guarantee that Jaime will survive in the books, or that he and Brienne will get a HEA (although I do not rule it out at all).  But the fact that the man who invented these characters and this world has a different stance on Jaime and redemption automatically invalidates any nonsense show people can say about how this was the perfect and only way it could end, and that expecting anything different from this series was wishful thinking.

[calliecat93]

RvB17 Episode 9 Review: Succession

You know something that's gotten on my last nerve dear readers? Nostalgia banking. What should be a good feeling about seeing something that you once loved and haven't seen in so long has now become a cheap cash0in for the media. It's now just lazy and downright insufferable with the constant reboots and remakes of nostalgic properties, like every Disney thing ever in the past decade. Why am I bringing this up? Because while it's nowhere near as bad as with other things, this season of RvB is very much counting on nostalgia to help win it over, just look at the Freelancer fan-service in Episode 5. It was fan-service that made sense in context in all fairness... but still fan-service. And that is the ONLY excuse as to why we're doing Felix again.

Alright, let's quit with the bitching and get to the reviewing.

Overview

Tucker has gone back to S11, at the moment where they lose half the team tot he Feds at Crash Site Bravo. The problem causing the paradox? Genkins has possessed Lopez Dos.0 and is making it so that the Reds and Blues win. As such, Tucker has to ensure that they lose and recreate the circumstances that lead to one of the worst days of his life. Damn,t hat's harsh bro. But he does it, even taking one of Genkins' attacks at point blank since Genkins still can't harm a shisno. Tucker takes him down, and as such aside from some minor differences, the overall conditions go as they are meant to. Genkins retreats.

The scene cuts to later, where Felix is talking to Tucker about what happened and it's still when he had his good guy facade. Tucker I going along with it... until he starts hearing voices telling him to kill Felix. The voice? Genkins, who jumped into the AI module in Tucker's armor. He tries to convince Tucker to kill Felix before he can betray them... but Tucker refuses. There's already a plan in place, and not even Genkins reminding him that it's Donut's plan deters him. He recalls how, since Chorus, he's tried to act as a leader should... but in reality, he just acted even more like an egotistical battle. But now he realizes that a leader is someone who steps up and does what needs to be done, something that Donut has so far done moreso than anyone else. Realizing that he's failed, Genkins retreats once more.

Tucker goes back to Iris, the agreed meeting point, where Donut already is. Sarge comes back briefly... where Donut informs him that he caused a Paradox, so Sarge goes away to... probably deal with that. This makes Donut concerned that maybe he didn't explain the plan too well... only for Tucker to tell him that he's doing perfectly fine. Donut's touched, though Tucker tells him to quit acting like an angsty bitch, so we can't get too happy feelsy. With that encouragement, Donut jumps to at some point in S7, where he confronts Genkins in The Meta. It is at this point that Donut points out something. Chrovos doesn't give power, she takes it. There is no guarantee whatsoever that she will hold up her end of the bargain with Genkins. Will Genkins really get the ultimate power that he wants? This seems to affect the Trickster God, as he jumps out.

Meanwhile, Wash and Carolina are talking at a cliffside where Carolina again apologizes for her actions in the last season. Wash is still forgiving, even kind of glad that he got to experience a period without brain damage for a little while. Yes my friends, there is still one more paradox that has to be fixed: the last one. The one that began all of this to begin with: Wash being shot. He knows that, in order to save the universe, it has to happen and he seems to have come to terms with it. Carolina is understandably not happy to hear this. She's downright tearful, but in the end, she understands that it has to be. Wash emphasizes that regardless of everything and no matter what happens, he loves Carolina before jumping. Carolina takes a moment to compose herself before she follows.

Back in Chrovos' domain, Genkins returns and Chrovos... she's not unhappy but she's not pleased either. Why? As it turns out not only are no new cracks forming, but all of the previous ones are now disappearing due to the damage being repaired. Only a small amount remains now, and Chrovos wants to know what's going on. Genkins reports about the Shisno being awake, which seems to... make Chrovos throw in the towel. Genkins has utterly failed and since she can't go and do anything herself, it means that soon the paradox will be undone, the Gods will have Genkins pay the price for his betrayal, and the only pleasure that Chrovos will get is it hopefully happening in front of her as she remains prison bound for all of eternity.

Genkins, however, says that he has a plan. He points out how Chrovos used time to bring back Donut and place him somewhere before. If he can do that tot he Reds and Blues, they'll be out of the way and Genkins can cause as many paradoxes as he wants. But he doesn't have the power to do this alone... so he asks Chrovos to give him a portion of her's. Chrovos is reluctant since she doesn't have much left as it is, but Genkins points out that all she has to do once freed is kill and adsorb the Reds and Blues energy, and she'll be restored. Genkins, likely out of desperation, complies and transfers the majority of her remaining power. This causes her to collapse, her armor even changing from black to white. She tells Genkins to hurry... but the Trickster God reveals his true intentions. He's going to go back, put the Reds and Blues out of the way, and weaken the prison... so that he can kill Chrovos and take over with the power that she gave him. Chrovos can only take in her error as Genkins goes back tot he Everwhen.

We cut to Season 15/S16's finale where Wash takes in his final moments before getting shot. He begins to walk forward, the others possessing their Season 16 selves, as Wash tosses aside his own gun and holds his arms out. We hear the sound of a gun go off as the scene cuts to black. But, this is not the end, as when the scene cuts back we see the pullet... frozen. In fact, everyone is frozen. Why? Genkins. He appears and informs the group that he's paused the moment for just a bit as he goes to take care of other matters. The bullet drops to the ground and Genkins bids the Reds and Blues farewell, off now that he has all of the time in the world.

Review

This is definitely better than the previous two episodes. IDK what it was about the last two, but they felt... rather rushed and all over the place. Like they wanted to do some character development stuff, but because they only have so much time they had to condense and squeeze it together and... that really made them a mess compared to the episodes before. But thankfully, this one put us back on track. It was emotional, raised the stakes in a way that I did not see coming, and has one Hell of a monster ending that left me utterly anxious. Compared to 7 and 8, which had good moments but was again very condensed and a Hell of a lot confusing, this one had me hanging on every second.

So... let us return to our nostalgia banking topic. As I said above, it's lazy and a cash-in at this point. Now this being a time travel season, I understand that we'd go back through some nostalgic moments. And again, in all fairness, the fan-service moments with the Freelancers were relevant and actually helped advance the plot without being forced. The Mercs though... while they thankfully didn't overpower the plot, going back to them... honestly had zero relevance in comparison. This is probably just me being salty because I've honestly just gotten sick of the Mercs because of how much they get hyped and such. They... or Fel9ix at least, have completed their roles and I want to move on form them. I want to move on to new stories and plotlines, hence why I want Church and Tex to stay dead too. There's this underlying feeling, to me anyway, that this season is relying on the past to get people into it, not moving forward. Although, last season tried that, and many people hated it, so what do I know?

Speaking of the reception to last year... yeah that is the only reason we have Felix and why we had a focus on Tucker. I feel like this moment was Jason, who wrote the episodes and therefore the Tucker scenes that fans had issues with including the infamous talk with Sister, apologizing for the Tucker 'derailment'. And yes, I put derailment in quotes. I know that some felt like Tucker was OOC in the previous season and to a degree S15. He was egotistical, womanizing, and people felt like it was a regression. There was a LOT of push-back on that, so having Tucker relieve one of his worst moments and have to outright re-create it and realize how much he's messed up as a leader up to now felt nice. It's Tucker not acting in a way that he thinks a leader should, but stepping up and doing what has to be done. It's a nice moment of character development and I really hope that it pleased the Tucker fans.

But... my issue is... I didn't think that Tucker was regressed in the previous seasons. He did step up when he needed to. Maybe not so much in 16, but he absolutely did in 15. He is a womanizing asshole, that part of his character had never been addressed at any point until then and yeah, it was a problem. And it's not like they demonized him, he was supposed to realize how bad he had gotten after Sister's verbal beatdown and when he realized what happened to Wash. Oh, and he has yet to take responsibility for proposing the plan that caused the paradox, to begin with, most of that has been on Carolina which is annoying. Don't get me wrong, it is good to see Tucker realize how he fucked up as a leader and can become better and this was a good moment to have him realize it. But it feels unnecessary to me because his character had been fine and we again have to have a nostalgia moment for it. IDK, it just... annoys me. It's a good moment, but I'm mixed about it for the above reasons.

Okay, let's try and talk positively now. Like Wash and Carolina having a moment Yeah, this was going to come sooner or later. We all knew that for this mess to be fixed, Wash was going to have to be shot. He's come to terms with it, knowing that it has to be for the universe's sake. That doesn't make it any less hard though. Carolina broke time to save Wash. Was it ultimately a bad decision? Yes. But it's understandable why she went that route. She made a mistake, one that she is still apologizing for, and wanted to spare Wash of the pain. Not out of guilt, but because she genuinely sees Wash as family and can't stand him being hurt. Jen Brown's absolutely tearful, heartbroken delivery was so perfectly done. You can feel how hurt Carolina is as she has to accept that her efforts were in vain, and outright made things worst. Wash has to be shot. He has to endure cerebral hypoxia. They can't undo the consequences, they have to live with them.

And you know what? Good. Mind you we still have three episodes to go... but I want Wash to keep the brain damage. Look, it sucks that it happened to him... but in the end, it happened. Brain damage is terrible, but you can keep living with it. Wash is still a strong, capable soldier and he still will be even with cerebral hypoxia. He'll only be broken if he allows himself to be. Will he struggle? Of course. Will he need more help now? That goes without saying. Does that make Wash any less of the character that he was? Hell no. Wash has proven multiple times that he can pull through some terrible shit, including having an AI try to kill itself while inside his head. Wash can, and will, get through this. Now again, we have time still so they could find an alternate solution... but I really, really hope that they stick to Wash being brain damaged. I think that there are plenty of people who can be inspired by him and it can take his character, and everyone else really, into some new directions that could be good. We'll see how it goes, but I do hope that they stick to this.

But of course, if it does happen, we're still going to wait a while. Why? Because Genkins is an asshole. Yeah, I... I did NOT see that moment coming. I guess I should have since Genkins is an absolute shit, but... no, I honestly did not see his betrayal of Chrovos coming. The guy really is the God of Tricks, huh? I almost felt bad for Chrovos... almost. Yeah, she still manipulated and hurt a ton of people with her actions so she's still a bitch who kind of had it coming. But Genkins having her power is far worst since he's just outright chaotic. Who knows what the Hell he's going to do now that he can control all of time and can kill Chrovos himself to have all the power to himself. I do kind of like how this was almost framed as a redemption, what with Donut pointing out the uncertainty of Chovos keeping her word. But nope! Genkins is just as evil, and he essentially killed the queen to take her crown. I hate Genkins with a burning passion... but he is a fantastic villain and I fucking love it.

Final Thoughts

We're three episodes away from the end, and I'm still not sure how this is all going to end. While I am certainly mixed on some of the time travel usage and on Tucker's moment, it was overall well handled. And any misgivings I had about it I can forgive for Wash and Carolina's moment and the Genkins betrayal. It was a great episode filled with emotion and surprise, and I am still coming down from it. Will the final few episodes be able to hold up? We shall see in due time... get it? Time reference? Haha... yeah... yeah, I'll just... end the review now. Tootles!

[alphawolfice1989]

The Real Barney

In Game Night, we are presented with two drastically different versions of Barney – the idealist fool-for-love hippie, and the ruthless womanizer. Do you think deep inside, Barney is still the vulnerable idealist, or is his real personality rather a mix of the two – a more balanced character like the one we see when he’s alone with Robin?

I think over time Barney has become a mixture of the two. The Real Barney is actually much more the romantic, loving, sweet guy that we see come out with Robin. So much (really almost all) of the ruthless womanizer persona is just a front he uses as a defense mechanism. However, maturity and life experience have shaped him and made him much less the idealist and “fool-for-love”. He’s no longer naïve about love and life. He has a much more practical, realistic viewpoint now. Plus he’s extremely insecure because of those life experiences and so he lacks confidence in himself. He thinks he’s bound to fail, and ruin a relationship, and be a bad boyfriend, and basically not be good enough, particularly for Robin because he sets her above all other women so she requires the absolute best (which is part of the reason why he’ll go to such lengths for other women like Nora and Quinn but seemingly not for Robin because with these other women it doesn’t really matter as much if he’s not good enough or if they reject him, but with Robin it definitely does). While we’re on the subject of “Game Night, upon re-watching I just find what they do to Barney so incredibly cruel. Clearly he is bothered by what’s on the tape. That should tell them, as good friends, that it’s a serious matter to Barney that they should respect, but they don’t care. They physically rip the tape away from him (and, again, shouldn’t that be telling them how serious he is about them not seeing it? He’s obviously embarrassed and upset by it) and Robin is the only one during this altercation who is looking over at Barney, troubled by it and not appearing to agree with what the others are doing. Then when they actually start watching the tape and see what it is, Robin has her hand on his knee in support (at that point Marshall does put his hand on his shoulder, so at least he tries). And when Barney finally shows up at MacLaren’s, Robin is the one to say “Barney, where have you been?” with obvious concern. She’s also the one to reach out and touch his arm and bring him back when he tries to leave again. It definitely feels like the evening they spent bro-ing out in “Zip Zip Zip” increased their friendship and the bond between them (I love too how in “Best Prom Ever” Robin is so concerned for Barney and how he’s going to get into the prom and she doesn’t want to go in and leave him out there alone until he tells her it’s okay, not to worry about him). But it’s surprising to an almost disturbing level how much Ted and Lily in particular are mean to Barney and completely disregard his feelings. This episode also got me to thinking about 7.10. We’ve all debated why Robin came to the bar that night and if she couldn’t ditch Kevin because of his concussion why she just didn’t come. I know there are other reasons I believe she did it (like she wanted to see if Barney was actually there himself; she wanted to tell him ‘no’ without having to actually talk to him and risk telling him ‘yes’ instead) but maybe one of those reasons was also because of what happened to Barney with Shannon. As he’s telling them the story in “Game Night”, Robin is the one who says, “She never showed?” with such concern and she can see how much that hurt him. Maybe Robin couldn’t bear to repeat that. If she hadn’t come to MacLaren’s that night, essentially she would have been doing the same thing as Shannon. Barney was all set to meet her there, waiting for their new life to start, exactly the way he was with Shannon. Robin had heard the story of Barney sadly waiting there on the curb but Shannon never came. Maybe she just couldn’t bring herself to do that to him again. Of course what she does is no less painful but maybe in her mind she thinks the similarity to the Shannon situation would make it worse.

I think Shannon hurt Barney so much yes but I don't know if Robin was using hurting him as an excuse not to go meet him alone. I am still going with her being really scared to share those feelings she buries for Barney in this situation and that's why she brought Kevin along. Robin wasn't thinking clearly when she brought Kevin back to MacLaren's and it's all about how scared she is to put herself out there for Barney but Barney turns out to not be there waiting for her. I didn't realize that Robin seemed concerned in "Game Night" about Barney but I did see some things that were a concern to Robin like him being gone along time with no contact with the others of the group. Maybe Robin's new found friendship with Barney was her main concern, she was trying to be a good friend to him after being hurt all over again with this tape and by his friends no less. I did see her concern for Barney when he returned to Maclaren's but only as a friend.

OMG I totally agree about 'Game Night'. Just watching it last night I was almost shouting at Ted & Lily to leave poor Barney alone in that scene. And when he comes back into the bar they first act all concerned, but then start laughing again. I did notice that Robin was the only one who seemed to genuinely care about Barney's feelings, until Lily at the end when he actually starts crying. Mind you, I guess the whole thing isn't that dissimilar to what they do to Robin in 'Slap Bet', and then it's Barney driving the whole thing, so maybe we shouldn't be so sensitive, idk! :-) I do think Lily softens a bit towards him after this, and of course much more so after SF. As far as Barney's character goes, every human being is the sum of all their parts, so in a way it's a pointless question to ask who is the 'real' anybody. But I do agree that Barney is still very romantic at heart (candles & rose petals, anyone?) as well as very insecure and doesn't think he's good enough for Robin. The difference between current Barney and the way he was in the early seasons is that those insecurities are now very much more apparent - to us, to himself, and to an extent to everyone else, although his friends appear sometimes oblivious to the point of not caring, and Robin simply doesn't seem able to comprehend that this is part of the issue. I do think though that Barney must always have had a wicked, mischievous side, in order to be able to become the womanizer to such an extent and actively enjoy it. It's possible to fake a persona to some extent, but to sustain it for more than ten years with such obvious relish - even if deep down you longed for something more meaningful - it must have tapped into some fundamental aspect of his personality which he'd never had the courage to bring out before. But maybe this was part of the Universe's plan to bring him together with his One. Let's face it, Hippy Barney isn't exactly sexy. Barney's confidence and humour and 'craziness' are crucial to his appeal. I think this is maybe what the writers were talking about when they spoke of Hippy Barney not being as innocent as he appeared. If he didn't have that mischievous, charismatic persona hidden somewhere beneath the hippy exterior, he'd never have met Robin or she'd never have looked at him twice. Same as if her dad hadn't brought her up as a boy, she'd never have acquired many of the attributes that appeal to Barney. It's all part of the bigger picture.

True, what the group does to Barney in "Game Night" is somewhat similar to what they do to Robin in "Slap Bet" but there are some key differences. In "Slap Bet", Barney is convinced that Robin did porn, but he doesn't think there's anything embarrassing in that. He thinks it's awesome. And what's driving Barney in that episode to find the tape (other than his subconscious fixation with Robin) is his desire to win the bet with Marshall. So it's not done out of meanness or a desire to embarrass Robin, the way that Ted and Lily's actions seem to be completely motivated by in "Game Night". Also, when Barney does find the tape and the group is all set to watch it, Barney (still thinking that it's porn) is the one to stop the tape after only a few seconds of "proof" in order to preserve Robin's dignity and so she won't feel bad. But in "Game Night", Barney himself had to physically steal the tape. They weren't going to stop it. They wanted to keep watching and laughing over it no matter how much it hurt and embarrassed Barney.

Yes that is true, Barney does stop the tape in 'Slap Bet', specifically saying he's doing so "in the interests of Robin's dignity". But they do all laugh at her quite a lot when they do get to watch it. I know she's resigned to it by then and has given them permission to watch, but it's still a bit mean, even if it's understandable. I mean, even when Ted apologises to her, he's still sniggering about it, and Barney and Marshall both talk about how they're going to watch it over & over (although I'd be prepared to bet that Marshall doesn't!). But yeah, 'Game Night' is definitely worse by a long way. I think that at this point in the show, the others really don't believe that Barney has any feelings, and to be perfectly fair, he's really only got himself to blame for that. Robin is the only one who's seen even a hint of his softer side up to this point. But maybe what this implies is that they HAD to see this tape, even though it was painful for Barney, in order to start to understand him. It's clear that by S6 they all care deeply enough about him and understand him well enough to try to reunite him with his dad, and then again in S7 when they have the 'Quinntervention' they are all looking out for Barney's interests. They know now just how vulnerable he really is, so this is a real journey that all the other characters have had to make in their friendship with Barney, and 'Game Night' was the first step on that road.

https://barneyrobin.livejournal.com/833608.html