#I still gotta add more contrast to it but then ill be done

[s1lly-gh02tz]

Almost finished with this !!!

Also ignore how bad the quality is☹️

[rochey1010]

Hi guys, 👋 i just wanted to make a post about something that i feel is about to happen on the show, like i am completely convinced of this now.

I'm seeing major foreshadowing going on with Elu and what will be the outcome of the spoiler movie plot.

Ok, so something i've noticed with Eliott this season is that he's kinda in his own world. Yes i know they are showing his individualism and i'm happy to see that because i think he's a beautiful and complex character and deserves so much insight.

But certain things i've noticed in scenes and certain things i've heard Eliott say is starting to make me think we are heading for Eliott having his own rock bottom moment. I'm just gonna list some things that seem to connect for me.

• The hiding and lying really been highlighted with Eliott's arc. The almost casual way too. Like it's a habit and second nature. He's done it so much in my eyes to hide his true self that it's basically become a mask now. How he justifies these things to others and how oblivious he really is to how others see it too. How outside perspective is different from Eliott perspective e g. Lola calling him out with the urbex hiding, Lucas's anger when he was blindsided with Lola being in their home.

•For the first time ever with Lucas we see him at Daphne's party monitoring himself in regards to Eliott's mental illness. He's not monitoring Eliott and i have a theory on that. Lucas is so afraid of being a Lucille that he's passive with things that may be seen as controlling. So instead he tries to be cautious and make the situation about it being Lucas's choice and not a choice made for Eliott. I don't think it's an accident at all that Arthur walks up to Lucas and Eliott and wants to share a joint and Lucas who is cuddling Eliott and playing with his hair brushes Arthur off without saying what the audience is picking up on. For the first time ever we see Eliott chafe under this and we are aware that Eliott knows what Lucas is doing. Eliott tells him in an almost biting the tongue way to go and it's ok. And Lucas says these very telling words "Can i?" And Eliott says "yes Lucas" Lucas then happy kisses Eliott on the cheek and goes off with Arthur.

• The argument Lola wakes up to where we see that Eliott impulsive, forgot to let Lucas know what he was coming home to. Now i must say i don't blame Eliott for not doing this as the night was intense. And he'd just saved a girl from attempted rape and was prob up for hours with her and got very little sleep himself. But i also see Lucas's point too. Lucas is passionate. It's not out of character. It is part of who Lucas is. That is why he is a hedgehog. He is simply prickly and reactive. We have seen this throughout the show. He initially acts in a defensive way (hedgehog quills) and then he calms and deals. But again we see Lucas thrown off guard with Eliott and his impulsivity. So they are yelling and then Lucas says "she has problems" and Eliott tells him he has problems too, and Eliott acts offended that Lucas is being judgmental. And again it's a trait with Lucas too, and highlights again the group dynamics and the reaction to outsiders. Lucas accepts Eliott's illness but found it hard to accept his mothers. His love for Eliott changed his perceptive though as we see in S3. Lucas still shows that he has prejudices. He has made comments that are ignorant and unfair throughout the show e.g. mental illness, LGBTQ+, ableism with Arthur, Panphobia stereotypes etc. He just did it again with Lola. Like i said before, i play no favourites i see these characters as complex and when they're messy or flawed they are more interesting to me. So i have no issues when they F up. They're young, insecure, and it feels true to life. But yeah i notice with Lucas (again highlighting insulation in the group v isolation in outsiders) that Lucas has a moral view. If i care and love you i will accept you warts and all. If you are unknown and alien my quills are ready to go. And this is a direct contrast to Eliott who comes in and spreads his arms ready to hug the world. Even adopts furry animals. 😍

Then again something is said that shows how Lucas views his position with Eliott and his mental health. Eliott gives a hypothetical and says to lucas if he were in trouble Lucas would want him to be helped and safe, and Lucas says back. Yeah, but Lucas himself should be that person that should handle it. Now i don't blame Lucas. He loves Eliott so much and he wants him safe but i got subtle control out of that comment and an implication that Eliott can't handle himself. And we see the direct contrast the night before when Eliott, who the last time we saw in that hoodie with the hood raised, he was at his worst and crying in La Petite Ceinture needing rescue. But now he's the one that finds his power and rescues someone else. That he is capable, individual and has 2 feet.

•The mental illness talk with Lola and us learning more of Eliott's past. I loved this because we again see Eliott speak for himself. We get the much begged for past history of Eliott and his struggles. And he gets to impart wisdom and help someone else. That there is power in this friendship with Lola. For Eliott he not only sees the mistakes of his past he can rectify but he can be strong and guide someone out of the darkness he once found himself in. I find that incredibly beautiful and amazing character insight. But again it highlights how oblivious Eliott is to his actions on the one he loves most. His Lucas. Like i could write a huge ass post on Eliott alone and why he does the things he does, but i may get kicked off the tag if i do. 😄 but 2 words come to mind with Eliott and his love with Lucas.

FEAR: The fear of the past repeating and control happening AND the fear of being real and true because it's too much and you are a burden. And it all being rooted in his mental illness.

"i don't know how to control it and it is killing me"

Eliott tells Lola that his bipolar episodes can be quite violent. That there are funny ones (choc labrador thievery) and very sad ones (3 time attempt to take your life) like i knew his past was dark. (anyone that creates a refuge to release in and cry like you're still hiding, even from yourself and uses that as a coping mechanism?) Something horrible must have happened for you to resort to that.

And i've always maintained that Eliott is one of the darkest Even's, and France have not romanticised the portrayal of his mental illness in any way shape or form. He has snapped at lucas during his crash , had episodes where lucas can only watch him helplessly and love him regardless, his insta journal has been quite heartbreaking with his mental/emotional state, he sometimes won't take his meds, he'll hide his bipolar out of fear and run, he has his personal refuge, he's tried to take his life, he needs to get away and breathe, and he still has suicide thoughts even though he has Lucas. You have got to applaud the show with how they've handled Eliott and his illness. It's very real, and you may love someone immensely but depression doesn't care what they mean to you. They will be by your side but they can't fix you and love your mind to better health. You're still gonna have negative thoughts, you're still gonna slip and regress but having the one you love hold your hand makes it easier to navigate those scary moments. 👏

But through this something dawned on me. Eliott is sabotaging his relationship in his pursuit not to. And i gotta say i find that so sad. He's creating this love bubble, actually they both are, and nothing can penetrate the love bubble. That means fears and insecurities stay outside. He's lying and hiding to protect himself, protect Lucas from himself and keep Lucas from leaving him. Lucas is too but that essay is for another time. 😄 and he says to Lola that to love someone is to accept them even with their flaws. But he's lying to Lola too because he won't let Lucas see his flaws because it means Lucas leaves. 😭 we saw Eliott once open up to Lucas in S3 Lundi and the way Maxence played that scene was beautiful, because you see just how heavy being mentally ill is on Eliott. That he believes he'll just ruin everything around him

"things will change, i don't want them to but they will and it'll be because of me"

He can't keep eye contact with Lucas and his entire demeanour is one of wobbly defeat. You have never seen Eliott more vulnerable in this moment. His shame, embarassment, and self loathing is oozing out of his pores. He doesn't even want Lucas to have to deal with it, and his expectation is that the relationship ends here. And to add to that, he shows just how much he loves Lucas by saying how he can't bear to see him hurt or in any kind of pain. Lucas fights for them and Eliott has hope. But we realise that things don't just change overnight, days, months etc. Eliott still has demons inside him that tell him hurtful and toxic things that all people who suffer with mental illness go through. And when Lucas tells him he loves him there's still a voice in Eliott that says " for how long" and "you won't when you see who i am" i'm not exaggerating here. I deal with mental illness and it destroys your self worth. It is a daily fight and you kinda can see yourself as an alien in the world. It really has the power to twist your perception of the world in the ugliest way. FYI and TMI but when i had a severe anxiety episode that had crept up over years of denial and added to a huge life stressor. It lasted weeks before i accepted i needed help. I used to do what Eliott would do, and when it was too much i would up and leave, go to a nearby park and sit on the bench alone and sad. One time i looked up at the clouds and instead of seeing the beauty of nature, i saw mockery. I actually saw clouds laughing at me. 😄 no it wasn't delusions. It was simply a twisted perception of the world where there was self loathing, failure, and the feeling of powerlessness. I don't know why i included this, sorry for the discomfort. ☺️

But back to Eliott. Lola asks if things will be ok with him and Lucas. Eliott is like yeah and just throws out:

"He's worried about me, i have bipolar disorder, do you know what that is?"

Anyone else pick up on the emphasis Eliott does there in his relationship with Lucas. Brings it back to the mental illness and the oblivious nature of other things, like miss-communication and hiding things. Like Eliott's world in this relationship is "I have bipolar disorder" like that's a huge focus for Eliott.

Then they are comparing loves. Eliott telling Lola that "And i have Lucas, I can't lose this" we are actually hearing this from his mouth, and again, the reinforcement of the root of Eliott's insecurities. I can't lose Lucas. He has made my life better and makes the bad stuff not so overwhelming and scary AKA i'm afraid he will leave. So i will use my power to stop that from happening. She's sad and tells Eliott she had a Lucas (Maya) but lost her. Eliott tells her to find her Lucas and if she loves her she'll accept her. Which is obviously going to happen with Maya and Lola. She'll tell her the past which is connected to Lola's addict issues. And like Lucas, Maya's love for Lola will help her to overcome her pain and move forward, and Lola to find her light and not be so scared of her darkness.

• Every single time Eliott is asked by someone about him keeping things from Lucas. His answer is the obsessive "i want to protect him and i don't want to stress him or worry him" We saw it with Imane in S4 and we saw it with Lola recently. We add on the inner insecurities with "It'll be too much and he won't stay" and here's Eliott folks. 😔 We know he has an arc this season. Max said Eliott has a beautiful emotional journey, and that he helps the main with his past.

But one thing that every person who goes through emotional turmoil AKA Skam season main journey. It's called the moment that is the wake up call for the character. The moment that you are at your lowest and you must face yourself. Eliott can't be main as he's blocked but we are seeing that he has a lot of focus. So far he's in the show a lot and very active too.

We know that Elu's seasons long issues are being addressed finally. We know that Eliott himself will be addressed. What's one thing that has remained the same in Eliott and Lucas's love? The hiding things from Eliott and Lucas forgiving him AKA Lucas has never left. What's one thing that could be a very scary wakeup call for Eliott? Lucas leaving.

Now i don't think those scenes are throwaway at all, and i don't think the dialogue is either. They've slowly set this arc up since S5 for Eliott and the relationship with Lucas. Little stressors that just watching S5 you play off but now paired with S6 become very serious. I've mentioned some of them in other posts. We know the spoiler movie is coming. We know how lucas reacts to Eliott being honest and we can almost say how Eliott reacts = impulsivity and rebellion.

But the fallout? And i do think the story is going there guys. Which i'm fine with tbh, along with the conflict and the relationship. Saying it's just drama or out of the blue would be a humongous lie. This has been building for seasons and it is incredibly consistent with the relationship and the characters. Now i'd agree with fans if Eliott and Lucas were eternally blissful and then suddenly boom issues. But that hasn't happened at all. It's been tiny little stressors building up to the eventual crack, or my analogy = the bubble eventually pops.

So the movie happens, and for Lucas it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. His breaking point for him to end the relationship or leave Eliott. And it's Eliott's breaking point. We have his words, we didn't need them, let's be real, but we have them. He needs Lucas and everyone knows how much he loves him. Like that is not even debatable. Eliott is deeply in love with his hedgehog. But it's the wake up call to the relationship, and it's the wakeup call to Eliott. He can't continue this self sabotage and he has to face everything. But guys, Eliott really emphasised his need for Lucas. That ultimately tells me he's put his mental health on this need too. I think Eliott is going to be triggered and spiral. Like i'm sure of it now. And i think that is when S3 main Lucas will have his talk with S6 main Lola. I think she's gonna bring them back together. And i think that's what Flavie meant in her live "she helps him too"

I just wanna say i'm not gonna be in the tag saying Eliott or Lucas is a villain. I think it's sad when stress happens we pit the characters against each other. I wish the fanbase could be compassionate and empathetic. And you may not agree with what a character does but you accept that these characters are not black and white and they make mistakes, mess up and do stupid shit. It's the journey that we all go on and as other fans have said, growth is not linear.

Finally, god these posts are getting longer. I've lurked for so long and now my thoughts are just piling up. 😄 but yeah, i noticed some fans say that this Lucas and Eliott stuff should be over, they're together a year so should have dealt with their issues. Like i just have to say to that what?? Like relationship issues happen. You don't just fix them and bam happily ever after. The same issues can crop up throughout a relationship, because you are not just dealing with you as a unit but you are dealing with you as an individual too. You have the baggage the relationship causes and your carry on's that you yourself bring to the relationship. Your own personal issues and insecurities can continue to crop up causing problems.

Stressors can expose cracks, and that is what is happening. Denying and placing to the side issues like you'll deal with them later but you never do because you're afraid of the response thinking The relationship fails or you lose each other. Like think of anxiety. It's the ultimate result of not dealing with life issues. They build and build throughout life untill they become a disorder. These 2 haven't dealt with them untill now, and that's why they are coming to a head finally. And from a show perspective the format really limits them. Focusing on one main can't explore others and their issues, because the main has to be there. The only way you can do that is breaking format and Skam is quite strict with their narrative. What's happening with Eliott is a case of 'this is the best we can do' he's blocked but they want to give this beloved character the insight the fanbase has been begging for. They don't usually do this. Usually it's the main and his/her ensemble but this time it's the main + 2 part mains in Daphne and Eliott. The ensemble is background this season. And Eliott has an arc since S3 so of course they are going to bring these seasons built relationship issues to the surface and address them. They are wrapping up the old generation and handing over to new now. All these threads are being dealt with.

So what i said about stressors exposing cracks. Well here's a stressor? moving in together. Before Eliott lived alone, with his parents checking in frequently (prob his bipolar disorder) but he could breathe and be, and hide and be alone whenever he wanted. Now he's living with Lucas. And they love each other but there are teething problems. We saw them laid beautifully in S5, and being together only a year is really nothing. Most of that would be a honeymoon period, let's be honest here. And they have such an intense and emotional love. Like they are young (17/18 and 19/20) and have found the life partner they want. Just think about that, and the issues of that responsibility as well. In reality you don't find your life partner at that age. You really don't.

And people mess up. They make mistakes and they grow but it's not a full stop there. You make other mistakes and you mess up. And environmental triggers can happen that can make more mistakes happen, and can even make you regress. You fight in life. You don't sail through it. Does anybody? So yeah, oh sweet the lovebirds moved in together but moving in together has also highlighted issues not dealt with. Couples face tests. And importantly that "minute par minute" scene is now being seen in action. That means the bad times as well as the good. This relationship started in so much fear for both and i'm sorry that level of fear doesn't just poof away. We are seeing that.

Now i'm done. I really don't blame anyone if they don't read this. Even i'm ashamed at the length. But will i still post it? Yep 😄💜

[shyung-shoes]

people actually wanted me to do this so long post time it is! i could be completely reading into all of this but here’s what i think yeet.

the things that really stand out to me in this choreo are the formations and how inspired by contemporary dance it is!

(flfl=fallin flower. idk if thats the right abbreviation but thats just what i used here)

formations:

my absolute favorite part of this choreography is the formations. thats always been something i love about svt choreo because they utilize 13 members so well and create so many interesting stage pictures. i’m not gonna talk about the floral shapes they make because i think there are already some really good interpretations of them floating around on this site. the thing that really jumps out at me is the fact that the members are never alone. there’s always at least two people on stage and should a member be doing a solo moment (like jeonghan/seugnkwan/woozi) the formations are always centered around that member and act as a wall/barrier/prescence/idk.

 svt always has moments were one member can shine, that’s something you can see throughout all their choreo. the difference here is that there’s never a genuine solo moment. looking at dwc and fear, woozi isn’t alone on stage when he does his break away section but there is clear separation between him and the members. in flfl though, he is completely surrounded by the members, and this makes me think svt is acting like a shield/barrier. i say this bc we know how much of himself woozi puts into everything they create (re: his fc post about fear) and this song is all about thanking fans for loving svt depsite their flaws. this makes me think that svt is protecting woozi from negativity from the outside world and also from himself. ot12 is reminding woozi they’re always gonna be there despite his fear. (his line is also “ill be fallin into your warm embrace” or something like that)

we see this similar idea with seungkwan’s part where he’s surrounded by members during his solo part compared to his moment in fear. with seungkwan it kind of feels like “even if you’re acting alone, svt is always gonna be here” especially because he’s had a lot of solo schedules. 

the only time someone’s really alone is joshua and that’s to change formations so i’m not reading too much into that. sometimes you just gotta move to a new spot, story be damned.

contrasting movement/musicality:

contrasting movement and musicality really go hand in hand, especially here. we have those big, circular movements in the ripples, soft gentle movements (see the swaying in seungkwan’s part), but also the intense breaking during jeonghan’s part and the wrist isolation at the beginning/end. this makes choreography so engaging for an audience because it really brings the music to life. choreography that follows the same movement style (just smooth or just sharp) is so boring jesus. a choreographer’s ability to play with a beat while not being trapped in it is something i believe makes a good choreographer and that’s so evident here. the breaking follows the more edm beats (if u were teaching this part it would sound like “ba ba ba!”) while those softer moments follow the instruments/lyrics (”whoosh”). none of the movements feel jarring because they play into the music rather than create their own rhythm. 

also if i put on my overthinking hat, the contrasting movements show the ups and downs of life but through it all they move as a unit. especially because the sharper movements tend to be done ot12/ot13 so they’re all supporting each other during the intense times-

stillness:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. ok moment over. seventeen’s use of stillness is deadass one of the reasons i started stanning bc it shows how much they care about choreography. this is really big in dwc (you know that really dramatic pause part? yeah that). moment’s of stillness are so important to choreography and are so often forgotten. standing still can be just as impressive as any b-boy trick.

stillness is mostly used to highlight solo moments in this choreo but god it’s so impactful. i especially love it in during dk’s line because those on the floor do these really subtle shifts which adds texture to the dance but they overall remain entirely still which keeps the focus on the main choreography. and while it’s not exactly still, the really slow way they melt to the ground just before that is SO pretty and helps calm the atmosphere of the dance down to match dk’s soft vocals and i just lose it. musicality babey!

action/reaction:

musicality, stillness, and action/reaction are all base thought process for contemporary choreography which is why i say flfl seems really inspired by it. i wouldn’t be surprised if it was bc we know hao’s adding that to his dance database and hoshi watched a lot of contemp. for lilili yabbay choreo.

this is another common theme in svt choreo- one member motivating the rest of the group’s movement. it just feels especially prevelant here because so much of the choreo/story revolves around svt acting as a unit. the use of it drives home the point that one member’s actions affect the rest of the group. 

how one member moves in a ripple affects the way the rest of the members move. coups motivates the members actions in his section but the way his choreography differs from the rest of the group shows how he isn’t a dictator style leader, he simply inspires the group. the way hao moves his arms pushes and pulls the other members into a new shape. theyre! all! connected!

breathing:

my last section i promise. the use of breathe is so pretty in much the same way as stillness. it’s a stylistic choice often forgotten but not by svt. so much of this choreo is motivated by breathe its AWESOME. the big inhale right before they start the chorus choreo, the little inhales during the jeonghao duet, the pulses when jun breaks free of the flower... i could go on and on about this so ill cut it off here but god y’all it’s so important. 10/10 would recommend making sure you breathe during choreo

ok! end rant!! sorry this was so long i just have so many thoughts about choreo, especially svt choreo! tldr; fallin flower makes incredible stage pictures, is heavily inspired by contemporary dance, and shows how svt is one unit!

[queenharumiura]

The elite: Ponsol and Kyouya~

Send me a ship and I will grade it: ||Still accepting||

C: Not a bad ship

Since I already touched upon Kyouya earlier i’m going to skip ahead to this one;;;;;;;;; Since I’m typing this up, I see no need to tag myself kek

I see that their relationship would be… better off as friends, perhaps. I mean it really all depends on the verse that I’m playing, but if I go with the usual one, which is highly headcanoned (due to him only showing up for like what, 3 chapters? lol) he’s— he’s an ass. Plain, short, and simple. 

He’s an ass. 

With the way he grew up, he grew to think that he has to be better than everyone else. He’s above other people. In his mind, people have to be used or they are useless to him. Similarly, he has to be used, or be useless. 

If there isn’t a benefit involved, then there is no point to a continued relationship of any kind with him. He’s very untrusting of others outside the mindset of business. He likes to be in control and will not tolerate anyone telling him what to do. He’s stubborn and he’s very vindictive. If you get on his bad side, he’s more than willing to see to it that you rue the very day you laid eyes on him. 

Now, he is very understanding of how messed up he is. He was raised to be this way. Power is the ultimate and that’s all you need. The more powerful you are, the less likely people can rise against you. It’s that kind of mindset that he had drilled into him since young. Additionally, he was taught that he himself is nothing but a spare. 

Due to this, he has difficulties making any true bonds with people. He hardly trusts people in his own family. The only people who showed him any care are his grandmother, his mother, and his brother (in his own way). His relationship with his brother is a bit strained because of the whole ‘you are a spare’ and the whole ‘i’m partly the reason why my brother is this messed up’ thing. 

That’s just how I headcanon things because I wanted for something to explain why they turned out the way they did as humans rather than demons. Yay human AU’s. Boo given absolutely no canon information about them, so I gotta pick up the slack. 

So yeah, Ponsol doesn’t trust a lot of people and knowing how messed up he is, he can’t trust that anyone would truly like him for who he is. The only way people can like him is if there is some kind of a gain from it. Business is something he can trust. The give and take relationship. Law abiding contracts that hold people to their word. 

Ponsol isn’t a good person. Outwardly, he may smile and be polite, but he’s usually ruthlessly tearing into someone mentally. It was the way he was taught to tear into people, to see them as lesser than him, but that conflicts with the way h was taught from his mother. She taught him to not judge people and to be kind to people. 

He really loves his mother, and respects her greatly. So there is always this huge contrast between the ideals his mother taught him and the lessons he keeps getting drilled into him by the strict and cruel upbringing by his grandfather. His grandmother tried to help but she passed away while Ponsol was still young. 

From this, he turned into this person who only cares about profits, and being very vindictive in the way to give people a warning to not act against him if they know what’s good for them. If they touch anyone in the family, he has to enact vengeance because how dare they think that touching his family would keep them safe? There is no such thing as ‘if you care for their life, you will do as we say.’ABSOLUTELY NOT. Ponsol is supposed to not care. Do what you want. For every scratch you put on them, he adds another step to his ultimate evil plan to make your life a living nightmare. Your loved ones will not be spared. You thought to touch his family, so why shouldn’t he stoop that low as well? In fact, he’ll do far worse. It’s the family way to return favors double fold. 

He’s very cunning and he’ll figure a way to get away with most things. His brother is sort of the only moral backbone he has when they are near each other. Even then, we know that Shugarl himself isn’t exactly a model citizen either. They’re just asses in their own right tbh. 

So with all that, you can easily say that Ponsol is messed up. He knows this. It really affects his mentality, and it’s this clash of his emotionally and mentally that makes him such a horrible person. He’s got a horrid and angry temper from this clash, and he can lash out if you do the wrong thing in front of him. 

I don’t really see Kyouya being interested in Ponsol when he’s like this. Maybe business partners, but given how he is… I truly wonder if Kyouya would give him the chance. Kyouya is meticulous so he’d do his research. I can see him looking into some of the stuff Ponsol did and not being impressed. 

However, another part of me wonders if he’d look into the past and realize some concerning things about Ponsol’s upbringing. After all, Kyouya also had instances with his own siblings, and maybe he can relate to a certain extent, since he’s not supposed to be the heir being that he’s the younger brother of the family. 

Ponsol is also the younger brother of the family. He’s to consider himself the placeholder for whenever his brother finally ‘opens his eyes’ and decides to take over as the heir himself. Ponsol works hard because he wants acknowledgement. He’s not just a placeholder. He can do this job and do it well. He hates the fact that people think he’s just a placeholder and they look down on him or even try to undermine him. 

That goes against the idea that he shouldn’t let anyone look down on him and so it’s always a rough battle in the corporation. He always has to look strong and be strong. He has to be the best, even above his brother, but still be told that he’s nothing in comparison. So it’s this weird thing where he’s got a lot of pride, but it can so easily shatter the moment his brother comes into the picture. 

It’s this weird borderline of him being so prideful and haughty, but also having nothing. Yep. He’s fucked up. He honestly needs help, but he doesn’t ever reach out for it because that’s ‘weak’. 

Having not grown with a lot of affection, he secretly craves for it on a subconsious level, even though he doesn’t think he needs it. That’s why I write it that when he’s sick, he sort of is a bit childish. He’s weak, he can’t think properly or hold himself to his usual standard. Being cared for when he’s sick reminds him of the time when he was very sickly as a child and it’s like this subconsious plea for help that he never knew he felt. 

He thought he gave up on all of that to be frank. It is possible that perhaps Kyouya can notice all of this and think that Ponsol needs help. He may not like him, or agree with his methods, but he understands he needs help. 

Both can b of use to the other, so while they have a business relationship, Kyouya can try to unravel some of Ponsol’s deep hurt. 

It would take a lot of effort and fighting as Ponsol has his guard up, but he does crave for comfort and affection like I said. So, if done right, he would actually fold a lot easier than one would think. He’s very weak to people who are loyal and sincere. If one were to show him sincerity in some form, he would take note of that and deep down start to form a kind of trust and or affection for the other party. 

This can grow to the point that he can see them as a friend. With continued effort, it’s possible that something else can come out of that. Ponsol is a willful guy who is selfish. He thinks of himself first and foremost. He really doesn’t care much for other people. He only does for the sake of appearances. 

Still, he’s quite sensitive to emotional and mental abuses since he suffers a lot from that himself. So he is a bit sensitive to that too when he interacts with other people. He may be prone to showing a bit of kindness in a situation like that. 

So depending on how willing Kyouya is to give Ponsol a chance and to work with him, it could work out. Maybe. 

Like I said, Ponsol is a messed up piece of work. However, IF he actually manages to find somone he cares for, he will do whatever it takes to keep them safe. It’s like a greedy dragon who will protect his treasures. This treasure of his will be someone who he will be considerate to. 

Basically meaning, this will be one of the only people (aside from a few of his family members) that can tell him what to do, and he’d actually consider it. 

He doesn’t allow a lot of people into his heart, so if you managed to worm your way in, you best be grateful. 

If Kyouya somehow managed to get into Ponsol’s life in a positive manner (and not business), he’d see the deeper part of Ponsol that most people don’t get to see. It’s because you somehow managed to get past his defenses, and so he’ll let himself be open with you. 

Deep down, he wasn’t a bad kid. He can be a bit sassy and bratty, but he was caring for people. As an influence from his mother, he loves flowers. He had to grow up seeing people bash his mother for reasons, and so he’s very protective of his loved ones. He felt helpless because he couldn’t do anything about it as a child. 

Now, if anyone had something to say about his mother, he will flip shit. He still can’t say anything against his grandfather though, since he knows from experience that it has the opposite effect. 

Idk how willing Kyouya would be, but it could happen, but with a LOT of work. Ponsol would think well of Kyouya’s character, but he would also probably feel a bit… self-consious around him? He’s more upright and moral than Ponsol is, after all. 

So it would be a reminder of how shitty of a person he turned out to be and it would make him feel a bit bitter on the inside to be honest. Still, he wouldn’t hate Kyouya over it. He would just have more inner depressive escapades because of it. 

He respects Kyouya for his work ethic and his charisma. He wouldn’t think ill of Kyouya. Given that he’s from a line of doctors, which have the duty of healing people, there is a sense of care that he feels. There is respect from that, since it’s the opposite of how he sees his family. They are cold, conniving, and cruel. 

Businessmen usually don’t have a very good reputation so ahahah—

All in all, if a lot of work was put into it, I think they would be an interesting pair. They would be that power couple that no one could lay hands on. Everyone would have to tread carefully around them. I’m sure they would be able to support the other in regards to business. They would have a lot of trust in the other and I think that’s precious. Would be so difficult though and i’m honestly not sure if Kyouya would even want to put forth the effort into trying to tame this asshole lol. 

[comicteaparty]

May 27th-June 2nd, 2019 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party week long chat that occurred from May 27th, 2019 to June 2nd, 2019.  The chat focused on SUPERPOSE by Joe (or Seosamh) and Anka.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- WEEK LONG BOOK CLUB START!

Hello and welcome everyone to Comic Tea Party’s Week Long Book Club~! This week we’ll be focusing on SUPERPOSE by Joe (or Seosamh) and Anka~! (https://superposecomic.com/)

You are free to read and comment about the comic all week at your own pace, so stop on by whenever it suits your schedule! Remember, though, that while we allow constructive criticism, our focus is to have fun and appreciate the comic. Below you will find four questions to get you started on the discussion. However, a new question will be posted and pinned everyday (between 12:01AM and 6AM PDT), so keep checking back for more! You have until June 2nd to tell us all your wonderful thoughts! With that established, let’s get going on the reading and the chatting!

QUESTION 1. What has been your favorite scene in the comic so far? What specifically did you like about it?

QUESTION 2. When it comes to the themes of feeling lost and finding your place in life, which character do you connect with the most? What moment of their internal struggle regarding this topic really captured your imagination and why?

ErinPtah (Leif & Thorn | BICP)

Only a couple scenes in at this point, but wow, I can't let the coloring technique go uncommented on. It's gorgeous. Changes for every environment and every time of day, presenting them with rich palettes and exquisite lighting.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. At the moment, who is your favorite character? What about that character earns them this favor?

QUESTION 4. Do you think Kas will eventually adjust to life in Port City and get out more? If so, how might that change them? Overall, how do you think the nature of Port City will shape the characters as the story continues?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 5. What has been your favorite illustration in the comic so far? What specifically about it do you like?

QUESTION 6. How do you think Royal’s father will react to Royal’s plans with the company? How will this personally affect Royal? Further, will Royal’s father be as cool about who Rafael is related to? Also, how will Rafael’s relationship with his father affect the story?

RebelVampire

1) that scene where Royal is in the arcade teaching the kids the glitch in the game. this was the first time where i felt like we really got to see royal's soul. previously he just felt like kind of a smart air-head, but this scene made me see him in an entirely new light. there deep thoughts and grave ambition hidden under there, and the way he explained the glitch really just made me want to play glitchy games and marvel at them. plus, for comedic reasons i like the juxtaposition of the kids basically just not giving any damns about what royal is talking about. they just wanna win their game https://superpose.superposecomic.com/post/161303418270 2) its a tough choice between royal and rafael, but im gonna go with rafael. i think my favorite scenes with him in regards to being lost are when we see him in the ocean. to me those scenes are physical manifestations of what hes feeling internally, which is like a small speck alone in a vast ocean trying not to drown in everything. and honestly, what a great way to put feeling lost, because sometimes that is exactly what it feels like. plus, for me personally, i can connect with rafael's seeming lack of ambition a bit more than i connect with royal. since it's not like rafael doesn't have skills, rafael just doesnt seem to know what to do with those skills.

RebelVampire

3) Royal. I love how hyper excited Royal is about everything and just the sheer amount of ambition he has. Like, I can't not admire someone who is so sure of their own damn idea that they pursue it like their life is on the line. That being said, I also like that Royal can be a bit of a doofus and also that he still has internal struggles of his own. Like trying to find a place in the world with his dad being pretty stern and detached emotionally. 4) I do think Kas is gonna get out in Port City more, mostly probably cause Royal and Rafael will drag them around whether Kas likes it or not. Which I'm sure there will be an adjustment period, but I think eventually Kas will kind of get used to everything if only out of necessity. Plus, I think Rafael will show Kas the good spots where Kas doesn't have to be bothered by jerks. I do worry though that in the long run, the city is kind of going to continue to amplify all their internal struggles and will continue to bring those to the forefront of the story. Port City strikes me as sort of a backwater city. Like the sort of city that isn't cool enough to intense tourism but is large enough that it devours everyone into the crowd. And that's the exact sort of environment that can breed feeling lost. Plus, a lot of the random people we've seen have been kind of shitty, like drug dealers.

5) I've gotta give it to the beam https://superpose.superposecomic.com/post/183664963457 the lighting on this page takes my breath away, and the pacing leading up to the illustration is really perfect too. Especially, though, I like the little intense beam of blue at the top. Not only does it visually show off the intensity of the power, but it add that nice level of contrast that draws your eye to it. plus, great composition for this page in my opinion and a well-chosen angle. 6) Royal's father is gonna be super, duper pissed unless it makes him a lot of money. I assume he will find out before it reaches that point and immediately pull Royal out and fire everyone. Cause I do not believe Royal's father has enough faith in Royal. Which this would obviously damage their relationship, and I think Royal will have to confront the feelings of insecurity he has because of his dad and how his dad has a lot of faults. Thankfully for Rafael, I don't think the dad will care about his dad. At most, I think there will be snide remarks. As for Rafael and his dad, I think their relationship is gonna drive a wedge at some point in Rafael's plans and kind of make him have to take a step back from the project maybe. I think Rafael is taking on a lot of guilt for what his dad has done, and I think he'll need to work through that before he can truly be happy.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 7. Which characters do you enjoy seeing interact the most? What about their dynamic interests you?

QUESTION 8. What do you feel the comic has to say about family relationships and how they help define who we are? What moment in the comic stuck out to you where this theme was at the forefront?

varethane

Royal and Rafael's interactions are always engaging, though I find them also very tense most of the time haha-- they're both very intense people

RebelVampire

as much as i like Royal, I would probably be more like Kas when interacting with him. where im just kind of internally like "royal slow your roll dude"

RebelVampire

QUESTION 9. What sorts of art or story details have you noticed in the way the comic is crafted that you think deserves attention?

QUESTION 10. Given how different Rafael, Royal, and Kas are, what obstacles do you foresee in the three getting along? How will their personal lives affect their professional lives in this regard? Alternatively, what ways have their relationships improved that you liked?

RebelVampire

7) Probably Royal and Kas. They have such opposite personalities that I'm always interested to see how they make their relationship work, both professionally and personally. There's also just something deeply relateable I find in their struggles to communicate while both being immensely self aware that they are ill-matched in regards to their socialization styles. 8) I think the comic shows both the good and bad ways our parents morph who we are. Like Rafael is a great dude, but he clearly has some deep-seated issues that I think are largely tied into the crimes of his father and feeling like he cants escape them. But I think that is something else this comic is saying as well. That regardless of what our relationships with our families is, sometimes we need to escape and forge our own path in spite of them. For me the largest moment where this stuck out was when Royal was in the meeting in the beginning and voicing his opinion. Cause Royal seemed to understand he was in the shadow of his father, yet at the same time was desperate to break free

RebelVampire

9) I'm gonna second @ErinPtah (Leif & Thorn | BICP) and say the lighting for this question. there is just so much damn atmosphere is every scene. especially when its dark. i find a lot of comic's get really scared of making scenes too dark and worry if its not bright enough people wont see. but i feel this comic just boldly says nope and does it anyway, creating some really beautiful night scenes with dynamic light sources. <3 10) I think theres gonna be a lot more conflict with Royal in regards to Royal just being so energetic. I think Rafael and Kas will find him exhausting after a point. not to mention I get the impression Rafael and Kas are getting closer, and I think there's a point where Royal will feel like a third wheel. The largest conflict I see them having though is what to do with their project if they succeed and what to do with themselves after. Cause while at the moment they have a joint goal to focus on, once that goal is gone i think the feelings of lostness will return. As for relationship improvements, I really like Kas was able to tell Royal that Royal's friends were asshole and Royal apologized. I was sure Royal was gonna kind of try to write it off. But nope, the two came to a mutual understanding, and Royal got to grow as a person.

varethane

I love that the lighting approach is derived from film compositing and photography techniques, it gives it a richness of value and saturation that's very intense but still feels realistic

RebelVampire

thats a super eloquent way to put, @varethane

varethane

I, uhhhh, am very nervous about what's going to happen when Royal finds out that Raf stole his dog.

RebelVampire

oh good its not just me then

although im worried whats gonna happen to Royal when Raf finds out Royal's dad was responsible for why the dog was in such bad shape

RebelVampire

QUESTION 11. What do you think are this particular comic’s strengths? What do you think makes this comic unique? Please elaborate.

QUESTION 12. Ultimately, do you think Royal, Rafael, and Kas will manage to bring Royal’s project to fruition? Whether success or failure, what do you think it will mean for the three of them, for the future of the company, and for the world?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 13. What are you most looking forward to in the comic? Also, do you have any final thoughts to share overall?

QUESTION 14. Do you think any of Rafael or Royal’s past actions seen throughout the comic before they officially meet will have future consequences? If so, how will they affect their working relationship, and how might the two find a way to work past them?

RebelVampire

11) Once again, definitely the lighting and also probably the composition. These aspects together give the comic this really unique, movie-like tone. And again, there's just so much atmosphere with these illustration techniques that it really works for what's going on with the story. 12) I think it's gonna be a partial success. I don't think they'll manage a true teleporter, but I think they'll manage something close enough that they can use it to revolutionize something? Cause what I forsee happening is that they'll run into a kink and Royal's dad will find out and say "no my dudes make this profitable." i think regardless of success or failure, the experience will still teach them all about themselves, and I think that's more important than any affect they might on a more global scale. 13) Seeing Royal and Rafael hang out more. We've seen Kas with both of them a lot, and I'd like to see those two together more. Cause I feel there's a lot of misconceptions both can work through and apologies to be had. And I think it'll be real interesting. Also, the issue of Royal's stolen doggo. 14) Yes. There is no way that doggo is not gonna be a thing. That's gonna be a hell of a confrontation. Not just cause it's understandable Royal would be mad, but I think Royal is gonna have to face some hard truths about how his dad might be an asshole. I think inevitably the two will work things out, but each is gonna have to accept that some of the people they know are assholes.

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- WEEK LONG BOOK CLUB END!

Thank you everyone so much for reading and chatting about SUPERPOSE this week! Please also give a special thank you to Joe (or Seosamh) and Anka for volunteering the comic and creating it! If you liked SUPERPOSE, make sure to continue to support it via some of the links below!

Read and Comment: https://superposecomic.com/

Joe and Anka’s Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/superpose

Joe and Anka’s Store: http://superpose.storenvy.com/

[isaacathom]

so im googling the towns the gyms are in so i can add a little more to them and their leaders and uh warrnambools coming up dust. dairy?? the fuck am i going to use with dairy for fuckin jimin??? what am i gonna do with that???? hes a flying boy! whats he got with milktank. like that doesnt actually help me

what ill probably do for him specifically is play up the port angle - warrnambool used to be a big port town, hence that kickass maritime museum (admittedly i was like 10 so maybe its not as kickass as i remember). so you play up that, that has a tie to the wind, so Jimin has relevance. give him a pelipper and hes all good. not sure i ever pictured him for a sailor type but he DID live in the big port city in EC so actually that does track. him and william are both good swimmers. explains why they live in port cities, ya? nicely done. can Mattie swim? probably not.

so actually him being in delivery makes total sense. but i gotta play up the seaward angle because sky delivery was Skyla’s thing, with the planes. he doesnt have planes, per se, but still! boats n shit. trains? oes.... does a train actually run to warrnambool from melbourne? i doubt it. oh, it does, but its one of those booked trains. wild. ok not trains, then. boats dooo seem kinda useless when its on the mainland, BUT if we make the route between it and WIlliam’s joint really long and arduous (which, to be fair, gettin to warrnambool from geelong is goddamn arduous even if great ocean road is a+). actually yea, make the route between those two towns great ocean. that way, it makes SENSE for people to use boats between the two towns/cities/yahea, because its just that little bit more convenient, especially if the winds are on your side. which, if youve got ol Jimin, you’ve got em! its his speciality. nice. plus, if the seas ever bad, and a delivery needs to be made, ya boy is here

this doesnt reallt change anything story wise, since i plan for Jimins city to be a fairly painless affair, to contrast the absolute fuck show Henry is going to force you through PLUS any other mess.

though. i do need to play Small Fry’s a-R FUCK I FORGOT TO GIVE SMALL FRY A NAME. /DAMMIT/. ok listen whatever. ol small fry has to get arrested at some point, BEFORE the player encounters Felicity in the base (but after the player has encountered Felicity in general). s, before the mountain trip. uh..... hmmm..... between sonya and lucienne? beechworths in the middle and it and luciennes town are all about the past, and ol ghosties (though sonyas town also has a nice ghost chunk due to, yknow, The Fires). would be fun for Elliot. thooouuuggggh would elliot be there??? i feel like he needs to be. for his character arc, i mean. hes gotta succeed some time? though he is present for the tower thing, which id argue to more the completion of his arc anyway? or a big point, since he either runs or he stays and that heavily impact his potential reconciliation with Rhia. so i guess he doesnt need to be present during? afterwards absolutely! itd be the build up - hes not present for any of the other Team shit up to that point, and now he finally arrives, late - but its him building up to actually being there. same when he rescues you from the base on the east.

so, the base is in.... beechworth??? well, i say Base. its a throwaway base. itd be really easy. in terms of trainer count, anyway. it SHOULD tip the player off that this isnt the end. its too early, too easy. theres something more. thatll be fun. maybe its on the route between them? somewhere between 6-7, sonya and lucienne. maybe its like.... west of beechworth? an area off of it. just a nice house, like what people live in. idk how youd get involved. maybe through Zeke? or [Sam]? Sam might be a good choice, since this is basically the last time theyll show up before you’ve basically locked in their route (insofar as that route impacts the Tower shit). mb the idea is that Sam meets you there and takes you to buy some of those Fucking Good pastries (no seriously beechworth pastries are really good i strongly recommend it. dunno about like veggie options but the snag roll was heavenly) and while youre outside chatting (getting those sweet convo points to set the route) you notice some grunts running off down the road with a pokemon. and sam, being a goodie, runs after them, and you follow, because its natural to do so (also mandatory because an npc who watched will force you to go if you try to leave lol). so you get to fight through the grunts with sam, and then theyll leave to call the Org/League/Etc. 

and, of course, this completely disrupts the plan for the Org. when they arrive and find you with a beaten Small Fry, who was completely caught off guard by you and soundly whooped, youve thrown a spanner in the works. Small Fry was the initial, easy option for a fall guy re: the legendary thing. youve just gotten them arrested, and the only way to have him still be the fall guy is to have him escape, which would damage the org reputation. so, youve fucked them. hence the escalation from that point to doing shady shit, trying to force Jun’s hand, or Rhia’s hand, or ANYONE’S hand. they could have succeeded at forcing Rhia’s hand if Elliot hadn’t shown up and ultimately given her what she wanted.idk. ooh, Rhia could show up the base, with the idea from the Org being that, of COURSE, you’ll fail to defeat Small Fry and Rhia, being disabled, will be unable to make it in time. of course, she’s more mobile than they think, and you’re a tough cookie, and Rhia makes the arrest. Rhia’s the one who fucks them. OOF, and aybe this is the point where you start getting Team vibes from Rhia. she walks in very calmly, calls Small Fry by his name (WHATEVER THAT NAME IS, god DAMMIT), and when he attempts to use that snark to escape, she stops him very calmly. the relationship is too casual to be coincidence. they’ve got history. but what IS that history? Rhia doesn’t tell you, but she’s got a sly smile. you assume its because shes sided with SF and she’s gonna free him, but shes actually smiling because she’s sabotaging T/O. nicely done. love you, rhia. blows kiss

hmm. yea. then Sam will congratulate you, you get your last mandatory dialogue with Sam prior to the Tower, and off you go, up the road, to Luciennes town and her Ghost gym. i think i like that set up. nice.

[comicteaparty]

April 18th, 2019 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on April 18th, 2019, from 5PM - 7PM PDT.  The chat focused on The Carpet Merchant of Konstantiniyya by Reimena Yee; Edited by Atla Hrafney.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB START!

Good evening, everyone~! This week’s Thursday Book Club is officially beginning! Today we are discussing The Carpet Merchant of Konstantiniyya by Reimena Yee; Edited by Atla Hrafney~! (https://reimenayee.com/the-carpet-merchant-of-konstantiniyya/)

Remember that Thursday discussions are completely freeform! However, every 30 minutes I will drop in OPTIONAL discussion questions in case you’d like a bit of a prompt. If you miss out on one of these prompts, you can find them pinned for the chat’s duration. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is fun and respectfully appreciating the comic. All that said, let’s begin!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

my favorite scene is definitely the one where zeynel sneaks off in the middle of the night after eating the cat to go pray. i love this scene for how emotionally raw it is. like this is somewhat being stripped and presented at their most desperate and vulnerable, and every part of the scene shows that. while at the same time, it has a good balance of feeling sort of mystical and expressing zeynel's faith through the choice in visuals and how many of the panels are composed together.

another of my favorite scenes is the end of volume 2 where certain ppl kick the bucket. it too was a powerful scene in terms of emotion and vulnerability, and another moment where i truly felt like the character in question was being their truest selves without the layers that ppl build up to protect themselves. not to mention i appreciate the bittersweetness of how it played out and how kindness kind of won in the end.

mathtans

Heeeey there. So, I kinda screwed this one up. Because normally when I reach the navigation page, I hit "FIRST". Aaaand... yeah, that wasn't the Carpet story. There's apparently a whole lot of other stories that come first. I was very confused, and this was a busy week. I figured it out half an hour ago and am reading now.

RebelVampire

oh dear. thats a lot worse than i was assuming too cause i knew the other comic was interspersed between the first and second volume. but now im glad i was vague in that last answer XD

mathtans

I was surprised it had been running since 2013 and then I noticed the artist had said they started it in 2016 in their kickstarter and derp. So I'll just kinda thumbs up stuff as I spot it.

reimena

If it makes it easier; here are the ebook versions of Volume I and II

Vol I: https://reimenayee.itch.io/the-carpet-merchant-voli Vol II: https://reimenayee.itch.io/the-carpet-merchant-volii

mathtans

Oh, hello author. Thanks.

(And now I must go tend to the wee one.)

RebelVampire

let's see then in the meantime. i loved the first scene where we see zeynel plying his trade and selling a carpet. like the scene immediately paints a picture for the visuals and draws you in with them. and the visuals are consistently beautiful throughout the comic.

but by contrast, i also appreciate the scene later on in the second volume where Mora wtfs Zeynel just taking the insults and Zeynel explains how its part of the job etc. etc. It was interesting to see this other take on his job and that not everything about selling carpets is all that fun and even if youre a cool vampire, sometimes you gotta swallow your pride and accept customers being dumbasses.

mathtans

Back-ish. Oh yes, the visuals are amazing. Not just the carpet patterns either. Even the sheep were different.

Lots of neat cultural stuff too.

RebelVampire

what i appreciate i think is the character of the backgrounds. cause a lot of them have what im going to describe as this splash effect. and while it may not always have anything to do with whats in the main panels and is mostly there to not be white space, i feel they always add great atmosphere to each individual page.

yeah i really adored the culture stuff. this is definitely not a heavily featured culture in comics so it was super interesting to get to see it.

though i also appreciate later zeynel's ability to just kind of meld into different cultures. cause it really gives the opportunity to compare, contrast, and appreciate

one thing i also want to say in regards to culture is that i also appreciate that the comic balances having unique culture features while still telling a story that is really universal to anybody. so you dont need to have some deep specific connection to the culture in order to appreciate the story in its fullest

QUESTION 2. One of the comic’s central themes is related to stories and story-telling. Overall, what do you personally think the comic is saying about the importance of stories in our lives? Of the fables that were juxtaposed to the main narrative, which one captured your imagination the most? How did you feel it related to what we were seeing in the story? In what ways did you see stories affect the lives of the characters within the story? Additionally, what did you make of Zeynel’s explanation about each carpet having a story within it? How do you think this applies to the works we see in our own lives? In total, how has the comic changed the way you see stories and how they shape our lives?

mathtans

Okay, little one's settled back in the crib, more fully back now.

Yeah, the story seems universal (from what I've gathered so far, with the two families). So it's more a bonus, the phrases and references and things.

RebelVampire

ill tackle the second question first. my favorite fable juxtaposed to the main narrative was Karagoz and Hacivat. there were a lot of reasons this juxtaposition really worked for me. first off, its premise of being a show that zeynel was watching i think somewhat helped build a feeling of nostalgia. like because the show was in the past, it helps illustrate how far away zeynel is from that. however, i think it further helps set up the idea of culture clashing. and predictively shows that both sides kind of have a negative and specific view of the opposing culture. so when these come up in the story, they help paint a particular perspective regarding them. and kind of force us as the readers to recognize that both sides have their biases as zeynel adjusts to life in different places.

mathtans

I know the feeling of being a better listener than talking about oneself. (Just as I'm reading, not sure if that necessarily relates to the stories idea.)

RebelVampire

in terms of the importance of stories, i feel like the comic was overall trying to say that stories help us connect to the world around us. and i kind of think this is represented with young zeynel. cause he sucks at talking about himself, but tells and listens to stories to connect with others. and this is how he bonds with people, learns about the world, and somehow down the line eventually learns about himself.

reimena

I do have thoughts of the intention behind the Karagoz and Hacivat scene, but I'll wait until everyone's done typing! (unless you want it now)

RebelVampire

you may go ahead since math definitely wouldnt be close to that one. participate as you would like

mathtans

I agree with what Rebel said, both about the bonding and learning through stories, and about the do your thing and don't wait for me, I'm a slow reader in general.

reimena

Haha I'm just lurking (doing other things while keeping this discord open). Only dropping in when necessary. (I appreciate all of the discussion though! <3)

mathtans

There's some really good non-dialogue panelling as Zeynel is opening himself up to the merchant life.

reimena

With the Karagoz and Hacivat story, it was meant to act as first, a parallel to Zeynel and Mora (with Zeynel being Hacivat, and Mora being Karagoz). Second, a subversion of the Other. Since Vol II is a jab at Orientalism, I thought it would be fun to have characters who are normally seen as "Other" to call out the Western world as their "Other".

Muslims both in the past and the present have always been constructed as monstrous or barbaric in Europe. Very rarely in a visual medium's critique of Orientalism do I see the opposite. Especially in the context of the era the comic is set in.

RebelVampire

i definitely appreciate the subversion of the "Other" then if it was intentional

reimena

Which explains the European wooden puppets at the end. The costumes, the white facepaint and blush, and the 3D construction of the design. Those are European. And they look rather jarring and out of place in a book that's mostly visually Ottoman.

mathtans

I was a little worried about how Zeynel's parents would react to his independence. It felt spot-on in the end, in particular the embrace and such, I'm glad he managed it. (Then fainting, hah.)

RebelVampire

this is true, their design really is odd compared to the rest and it did make me wtf for a moment admittedly. but i also definitely thought it made sense in the context

zeynel's parents reaction surprised the heck out of me, but probably in the good way

usually when you have overbearing parents, you expect them to be stubborn and not able to be persuaded. and yet here they were not and i thought that was a nice variety.

mathtans

Yeah, I was wondering about that, but the conditional acceptance worked for me.

Oh, well, the next sequence is a kick to the heart for me.

reimena

That's because they really love Zeynel. It's more overprotectiveness than being stubborn

mathtans

Speaking as someone with infertility issues in the family, ouch. Captured well though.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. Though much of the comic is about stories, there is also a lot of focus given to defining ourselves and achieving our dreams. Between Zeynel and Ayşe, which character’s struggle with their future path did you identify with most? What about it made it compelling? What do you think the comic shows and says about the way we define ourselves and pursue our dreams as it relates to others? Further, the narrative somewhat creates an identity crisis for Zeynel when he becomes a djinni/vampire. What part of his transformation did you find most compelling in his reaction towards it? What do you think we can learn from the comic in regards to moments like this where who we are changes? Is there anything else you’d like to mention in regards to identity and the comic?

i think i identified most with zeynel in regards to the future path struggle. cause ive been there with zeynel where you dont know what to do. and then you encounter ppl like Ayşe who just are 100% of what they want to do. and it can be an intimidating experience that makes you feel more lost sometimes, which i do think at first kind of happened. mostly cause zeynel really opened up and laid everything bare after some pressuring and i think its because Ayşe caused those emotions to reverberate more strongly than ever.

mathtans

Yeah, I've never really been clear on where I'm going, but I'm highly organized in the moment. Then there's those times when I know where I'm going (start a family) and reality just kicks you from behind and says you need to adapt those plans.

RebelVampire

yeah. but ultimately what i found about zeynel's struggle was how we were shown how he overcame it. in that he found something interesting that he was good at and decided to give it a try against all he was taught. but that it was something he did with those around him supporting him. and i think in a large way this is part of what the comic shows about defining ourselves. that in essence we are defined somewhat by the people around us, such as how zeynel's parents picked his career or how Ayşe herself was defined by her family's occupation. but at the same time changing how we see ourselves is made a lot easier when those around us who originally helped define us support explorations into other areas.

mathtans

Yeah, Zeynel also got a lot better at talking about himself. (I'm at the part where he heads off, runs into a guy and is suddenly telling him all about himself and carpets.)

RebelVampire

its easier to talk about yourself when youre proud of what you do

i really enjoyed how zeynel's vampire situation kind of goes through a lot of the stages of grief. though not all with zeynel either. cause i think denial hit Ayşe a lot, lot harder. but i think it played out really well because of that since his reaction felt extremely realistic.

and i love how hard they tried to make it work before hitting that acceptance stage

but all together i think the comic shows us that sometimes we do change, its sad, but we have to accept it cause no matter how hard we may try to make something work, the reality is it doesnt always

mathtans

I'm at the transformation part. That's rough. Some stuff you can just write off, but then reality hits you once again... and yeah, I agree Rebel, reality can be at odds with what we want or believe.

Interesting how the tavern guy, while being a jerk, still had an element of sympathy to him, what with his history.

RebelVampire

i felt bad for tavern guy. cause he was definitely a jerk, but at the same time all i can think of is how this poor guy will be found and no one will know who the murderer was. and maybe therell be a vague description of some out of town dude showing up. but then nothing cause this isnt modern day and its not like they have forensics or security survellaince footage.

mathtans

Yeah. Though I guess he did kinda want death, just earlier when he was with the sultan... his reality didn't work out either.

RebelVampire

it certainly did not.

i like to think tavern dude was the showcase of what happens when you choose to define yourself with anger and revenge

mathtans

Perhaps he wanted to beat someone up and figured an out-of-towner was better than someone who might have relatives nearby.

The night imagery when he goes back home is very effective

RebelVampire

that is probably true cause that scene made me marvel about how if you killed for self defense, the best course of action probably is to just run the heck away. cause like, who are you going to tell? and what is the liklihood those you tell are going to believe you that it was self defense? cause if i was like some town guard and some out-of-towner said to me "nah dude it was totally self defense" i might be like "idk man that sounds suspicious"

QUESTION 4. Much of the second volume focuses on the character of Mora and Zeynel’s affect on him. Overall, what is your opinion on Mora? Do you feel Zeynel handled the situation correctly, or would you have done it differently? Why do you think Zeynel had the affect he did on Mora? Do you feel Mora’s regrets at the end redeemed him, or do you feel that he had done too much damage by this point? Do you think Zeynel was sincere in saying that he would try and start forgiving Mora at the end? In essence, what do you think Zeynel and Mora’s story together says about good and bad people? Additionally, what is your take away in regards to the themes of redemption and forgiveness? What in the comic made you feel this way?

i love mora because he is a conflicted, murderous teddy bear who got dealt the worst hand in life.

and i think zeynel handled the situation 100% correctly. because i think that played into a large reason why he has an affect on mora. cause i think its relevant to even the scene where we first see mora. in that mora is flat out just not used to kindness. and that she be shown kindness reminds mora that not everyone are the people who were awful to him in his past.

mathtans

I don't think I'll get that far. Ayse is taking this better than I thought she would.

RebelVampire

honestly i didnt know what to expect for how Ayşe would take it. i was legit as nervous as zeynel about it. cause this is an unbelievable situation where you have to ask a person to 1) believe youre now a supernatural creature and 2) be okay with the fact that you sorta murdered someone, even if out of self defense

but i enjoyed i didnt know what to expect

cause it helped put me in zeynel's shoes

mathtans

Yeah, I kinda thought she'd let him go and try to find a cure or something. But in the story she told, I guess she still needs him as a constant in her life.

It's kind of regressed Zeynel back to the point where he's not sure who he is any more, or what he wants. Before it was his family affecting him, now it's this inner demon.

RebelVampire

since you wont be to that volume i wont dwell on it, but i do want to finish the last set of questions off by saying i do feel mora earned his redemption in a sense. not in the lets all forgiveness sort of way, but in the sense he finally took a satisfying step in the right direction since he acknowledged everything he had done to that point was wrong. but with mora and zeynel, i think the story is saying bad and good people are still people. and that bad people are often bad for reasons and that while we dont have to forgive them, theres a degree to which we should still show them some human decency. and that if said bad person is trying to redeem themselves, its good to encourage it even if to us personally they cant be redeemed.

mathtans

Definitely address your questions, they seem like good ones.

RebelVampire

i think thats a good way to look at the transformation. that hes regressed. cause its definitely an identity crisis

like even without the vampire thing i doubt zeynel would have labeled himself as someone capable of murder

so that in itself is a holy crap moment

mathtans

He never knew what he was capable of until it was thrust onto him.

Something I've noticed narratively is the use of flashback. We started with the little blurb on the boat... then to the carpet selling... then back again 25 years. (There was something similar in the very first story too, the one I started reading accidentally.)

RebelVampire

yeah and tbh i think thats kind of within the comic as well regarding identity. that as much as we can come to define ourselves, we may still be missing portions of that definition if we never test ourselves in certain ways and find out what were actually capable of in certain situation.

mathtans

I always hesitate a bit with that style, like I wonder if it's really necessary, but I thought it worked well in terms of how the 25 years got kind of "fast forwarded" through the relationship to bring us to the present rather than jumping back. That was good.

(No idea if that narrative idea happens again.)

That's a good way of putting it, Rebel. Not only missing portions from testing but if other people are needed to bring those things into focus for us.

RebelVampire

yeah the use of flashback is interesting. though i think i most appreciate the first flashback transition from the boat to zeynel's successful merchant life. cause i think the boat really set up some great expectations. so when you see zeynel all happy selling a carpet youre like "hey werent you just eating a rat on a boat how did that come about."

mathtans

I'm not sure I made the link that fast, I just thought they were related or something.

RebelVampire

well even related i still think it sets up ominous tone for future events. so eh.

mathtans

I'm reminded of a conversation earlier today with colleagues, of when someone gets old and feels like maybe it's just their time and isn't necessarily proactive about health and stuff. But others may need that person to still be around. So they make an effort for that reason.

This two-panel style between Zeynel and Ayse is pretty effective.

RebelVampire

i think thats true to whats happening in the story for sure. cause as confident as Ayşe is, i dont think she wouldve accomplished her goals without zeynel. and tbf we dont really see them have that many friends who arent family and working for them. so they probably a close knit group

one thing i want to say at that end is that this comic really made me want to learn how to make carpets so i too can have beautiful carpets on my floor

mathtans

It's like, there's so much emotion here, it needs space to breathe.

I think there was a tutorial panel somewhere in there.

(For making carpets.)

RebelVampire

there was and id be lying if i said i didnt legitimately studied it for a bit

but then i gave up

and felt Ayşe's pain

mathtans

Made it to #300. Rough stuff. Very emotional.

You'll just have to weave your stories in the meantime, Rebel.

RebelVampire

this chat was missing a pun

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB END!

Sadly, this wraps up this week’s Thursday Book Club chat for now. Thank you so much to everyone for reading and joining us! We want to give a special thank you to Reimena Yee and Atla Hrafney, as well, for making The Carpet Merchant of Konstantiniyya. If you liked the comic, make sure to support Reimena Yee’s efforts however you’re able to~!

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