#I���m all for these designs it’s just the Spider’s a bit harder to draw since he has all the extra limbs- 😅

[scarletspider2the2ndpower]

So that resurrection scene kind of brings up something for the general Kaine vs Ben and Peter debate- it looks like the Jackal did enhance his powers/mutate them beyond what Peter could do? I know there's the argument over whether Kaine is meant to look exactly like Peter/have the exact same powers but this seems to support the idea that he was deliberately designed differently from Ben. And the Other would have resurrected him perfectly; so these secondary mutations he's initially resurrected with are implied to be part of his natural powerset? I've been trying to figure this out for years and no one can agree lmao

Oooooh, thank you so much for sending in an ask, because this is a topic I could talk about endlessly. :D

Disclaimer: the continuity surrounding Kaine and the Clone Saga as a whole is uniquely snarled even beyond typical comic book whackiness, so while I will do my best to back up my reasoning using comic book evidences, I am, at the end of the day, just a person on the internet and you should take everything I say with a grain of salt hahaha Oh, and another disclaimer is that I’ll mainly be drawing from the material I have read for this read-through so far. It has been a couple years since I last read Scarlet Spider vol. 2 or any of the more recent works Kaine has been in, so I may go back and add to this post in the future if I stumble upon any more interesting and relevant material. 👀

The shortest and most direct answer to your first question of if the Jackal specifically made Kaine differently from Ben with the aim of the former being “stronger” than Peter is from the “Echoes” story in Web of Spider-Man (Vol. 2/2009), #1 by J. M. DeMatteis.

Further supporting evidence in this vein can be found in the story I believe you’re referencing in your ask, “What I Did for Love,” Spider-Island: Deadly Foes (Vol. 1/2011), #1.

All of these can be editorially explained by the staff scrambling to answer the question of “wait, if we’re going to bring Kaine back in the year of our Lord 2009, how on earth are we going to explain how he, out of all the Parker clones (including Ben at this point), didn’t degenerate when degenerating was one of Kaine’s defining characteristics???” That’s where I believe the narrative of “the Jackal designed Kaine to be stronger” is most definitively explicated; however, I have further “evidences,” musings, and discussion of how The Other changes spider people beneath the cut if any one would like to read more. :D

There are other, even earlier indicators, however, that Kaine was built to be stronger than Peter. The first examples that come to mind are Kaine’s precognitive flashes and the infamous Mark of Kaine. The latter is a more easily defendable claim as, while Peter has demonstrated that in moments of extreme rage like in Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1/1963), #598 and #637 he is not above sticking to someone’s face, those instances seem to be more like examples of extreme adhesion as opposed to the unique burning/acidic quality of Kaine’s “Mark.”

Peter in Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1/1963), #598 vs. Kaine in Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1/1963), #631 and #636, respectively.

Now, Kaine’s precognitive flashes actually being Peter’s spider-sense amped up to 11 is a bit harder to defend, as that requires near-apocryphal material as evidence. Specifically, Marvel editor and writer Glenn Greenberg described Kaine’s pre-cog flashes as such in part nine of The Life of Reilly, a joint project with Andrew Goletz and various other Marvel insider interview subjects on the complicated editorial history surrounding The Clone Saga. Greenberg goes on to state in that same part that “it was well established in the stories that Kaine was physically stronger than Peter, and he was clearly much taller and more massive” (qualities we will get back too), but that all of Kaine’s abilities directly paralleling Peter was never actually explicitly stated in the text, much to all of the writers’ chagrin.

So, in light of that statement, I would like to throw my hat into the ring on the “is Kaine stronger/bigger than Peter” debate (what could possibly go wrong hahaha).

As early as when Kaine first revealed himself to be a Parker clone, he was described by multiple sources, including Kaine himself, the aforementioned Jackal, Ben, and Peter, as being stronger.

Spider-Man (Vol. 1/1990), #60 by Howard Mackie.

Spider-Man (Vol. 1/1990), #66 by Howard Mackie.

Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1/1963), #634 by Joe Kelly.

Now, whether Kaine is actually stronger or just more willing to cut loose and use his strength to its full lethal capabilities is an argument I am definitely willing to entertain, as there is no doubt that Peter is strong, but willfully holds himself back (I don’t think I’ll ever forget that time Peter held up the entire Daily Bugle building on his back in Spider-Man (Vol. 1/1990), #98 or the time he beat Firelord, a herald of Galactus, in Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1/1963), #270, and he is a self-proclaimed juggler of cars according to Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man (Vol. 1/2017), #6). (…and then there’s that whole debacle with the “““superior””” Spider-Man and the Scorpion’s jaw).

As for if Kaine is physically larger, I stand by Greenberg’s statement that Kaine was consistently drawn as larger than Peter throughout the 1990’s and most of the 2000’s, with even the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Spider-Man (2005) listing Kaine as being 6’4” while Peter has reliably been 5’10” for ages (or as listed in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: A-Z (2009) if you want a specific source hahaha).

In fact, from what I have gathered, Kaine wasn’t portrayed as being physically similar in size to Peter until Slott’s Spider-Island event in 2011 (which,,,I feel like critics might be able to make a snide comment from that about how much Slott cares about the Spider-Man franchise, but that is WAY too far afield hahaha).

Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 1/1963), #672.

Okay, so after all that, I also wanted to discuss what you brought up about the Other and resurrecting Kaine with his innate skill set. The facetious answer would be “yes, kind of???”, but considering Peter’s own experience with being connected to the Other, the powers Kaine developed post-resurrecting are not all actually as unique as, say, his precognitive flashes or his Mark.

Interestingly enough, a lot of the powers we associate with post-encountering-the-Other Kaine were actually explored with Peter in the early and mid-2000’s, with each power being unlocked after investigating Peter’s connection to the Spider-totem concept or other inherent spider-related matters.

Namely, Ezekial Sims first hints that by tapping into the totem Peter could communicate with spiders in Amazing Spider-Man (Vol. 2/1999), #32 by J. Michael Straczynski.

That concept is further expounded upon and made to be a reality in Spectacular Spider-Man (Vol. 2/2003), #20 by Paul Jenkins, when the Spider-Queen enhanced existing spider-like qualities and DNA in Peter (in a rather horrific arc that solidified my hatred for the Spider-Queen but that’s just me hahaha)

During that same arc, Peter also got organic webbing.

Finally, Peter did briefly have a pair of Kaine’s infamous wrist bone blades (pictured here from Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man (Vol. 1/2005), #3 by J. Michael Straczynski), but, being the kind of guy who typically tries to avoid disemboweling people (Morlun here is an exception since he broke MJ’s arm), Peter just didn’t use them all too often.

So anyway, tl;dr, what happens with Kaine post-resurrection could definitely be described as “enhancing powers that were already there if perhaps inert,” but there is a compelling argument (if you take all comics from all eras as equally valid/canon), that those powers are buried within Peter’s DNA/totemic connection(???) as well and were thus passed onto his enhanced clone.

[lalotai-mimic]

Week 5 Recap

Little late on this one... Anyway, it’s been an eventful week for my muses, here’s the week’s recap of what happened for @thedandyman-tis and all my other lovely followers! 

- I designed a blanket octopus oc on random inspiration, and I gave her to @jays-fictional-fun

- I’m grounded indefinitely, but keep sneaking bits of time on to check on things around here... 

- I have like 3 more oc ideas I intend on designing and keeping

- Had my first magic anon event, with not one but two spells! It was super fun and I can’t wait to do another sometime. :D 

Tawhai: 

- For the magic anon event he was a real shapeshifter, but it got harder and harder for him to turn back to his usual self with each transformation. Not knowing this, he went around showing off the new powers to several of his friends. 

- Stopped by to talk with @jays-fictional-fun, demonstrating his new ability by turning into a human so she’d be a bit more comfortable with him being there. He gladly turned into a couple of other things at her request - a giant, colorful frog and the scariest thing he could think up. 

- Eagerly showed (formerly) askademi-guy’s Maui the new shapeshifting ability by turning into a perfect copy of him. Tawhai seemed pretty interested in the strange new form, understandable considering he doesn’t usually have hair or bones or tattoos among several other things. 

- Showed @rue-eelings the new power by turning into a copy of her as well, but gave her a scare doing so. He changed back as quickly as was possible at that point, and promised her that if the power lasted he would only use it for emergencies. Cuddling and sweetness ensued as usual. 

- Showed @white-fire-the-dragon as well, turning into a dragon, though the conversation quickly took a different direction as Tawhai noticed the state Dominic was in and asked what had happened. Dominic explained, very upset about having hurt some of her friends and possibly eaten someone, and Tawhai did what he could to comfort her. 

- Walked up to @subukunojess disguised as Tamatoa just for the fun of it, wanting to meet her anyway since he had heard so much about her from Brier. 

Brier: 

- Before the M!A, she had a little interaction with @glamorous-revenge while he was drunk. She mentioned how she had become one of @chaotic-wayfinder‘s pets, and Tamatoa wasn’t so sure he approved of that at all. 

- For the other spell of the double magic anon event, Brier was turned into some kind of quadrupedal bird-monster, kind of like a griffon but with no lion and with four eyes. 

- Met @tealtambourine‘s Suia while in bird-monster form. He could understand her chirping and chattering, so that was nice, though at first he was playing with her a bit and acting like he was going to eat her and just drawing it out. He didn’t eat her, though, and they ended up talking a bit, and Suia helped her figure out flying with her new wings. 

- Approached @subukunojess (in her Tamatoa state for her Monster Week event), who was not exactly pleased with her intrusion until Brier managed to communicate who she was by scratching her name into the ground. Brier also told her about the magic Tawhai was under, and Jess explained her own current spell as well.

- Approached @glamorous-revenge, almost getting eaten for doing so and only barely getting out of it by pointing out her collar. She wrote her name in the sand and gestured once he put her down, showing him who she was, much to his surprise. 

- Told my personal favorite joke to @subukunojess

- Joined Jess’s Tamatoa protection squad for during mating season

- Stopped by @glamorous-revenge‘s cave again, human again this time, and offered to help with whatever she could. She’s mopping up on his shell now to get everything nice and sparkly, singing to herself a bit as is her habit while working.

Kaihanga: 

- Introduced himself to the spider ladies of @spiders-from-lalotai 

- Continuing to keep a hold on @goldlovesthedecapoda, who is beginning to struggle less now 

- He’s interested in @white-fire-the-dragon‘s shapeshifting ability, especially now that she’s actually shown him 

- @tealtambourine‘s Ombra mentioned life in Hunapo’s gang not being ideal. In need of a few new companions anyway, Kaihanga offers to take him with him, not knowing how exactly things work with Hunapo. 

Kanohi: 

- Continues to be not the least bit intimidated by @tealtambourine‘s Suia and his warnings/threats. Though, something tells me she probably should pay a little more mind to them... (She totally won’t though, being who she is.)