#Meta/Theory

[loganelfreeces]

Thank you for putting this into better words than I can.

While I also have headcanons on Tsubaki's gender identity, I don't want to impose them on others or have them oppressed by others, because the point of Tsubaki is Tsubaki is Queer. You can ascribe anything you want to that because Queer is all of it and I'm always up for supporting people in their interpretation of Tsubaki's particular brand of Queerness. I just don't want people to forget Tsubaki is Queer.

I also think there's like, gender nuances that may be lost in translation because of the language and cultural barrier. Going off my Anime Inspired knowledge of and research into Japanese (I'm not an expert please don't hate me), English doesn't have equivalents of the gendered boku, watashi or ore the "I" pronouns in Japanese, while Japanese doesn't use third person pronouns he/she/they nearly as much as English does. The language itself makes it harder to pin down Tsubaki, without even considering differences between Western and Eastern views on gender non-conformity like I think in Japan a man's obsession with masculinity is considered gay, while in the UK a man liking women's stuff makes him gay.

Point is gender is a complicated social construct and an unlabelled character like Tsubaki is open to various interpretations including my opinion that Tsubaki would just call himself Queer if he was raised in the west.

Also guys remember, Tsubaki isn't real and can't be hurt by us misgendering them, but you can hurt your fellow real fans of Tsubaki by insisting your opinion is the only right one. Let's have debates but kindly towards each other maybe over some food.

deleting this later but im sharing my two cents on tsubaki

tsubakis story is a universal queer experience. anyone who is queer is able to relate to it (myself included) to various extents. as such, certain aspects of his story can be interpreted as them representing a different identity (the most common being a trans female)

however, i feel like these views are counterintuitive to the message tsubakis story is trying to convey. the whole point of it is to show that the things you love don’t need to be restrict to an unnecessary gender binary. you are free to love the things you like, and present yourself however you want, because you’re you. assuming tsubaki is a girl just because they present themselves as feminine, likes things that are considered feminine, and has people address them with feminine terms even though the story explicitly states that things like these don’t need to be constricted into a specific gender binary is pretty… eh….

it just further reinforces the fact that if you like girly things you are a girl, which is just generally a terrible message to spread. tsubakis story subverts these societal norms; that boys and girls must like certain things, and if they like some thing that was ‘intended’ for the other gender binary, then they’re either part of that gender or are “weird”.

and before i see anything about the feminine terminology, drag queens (both cis and trans) also address themselves and their peers with feminine terminology. im not saying that tsubaki is a drag queen, but things like this are common even in real life

perhaps it can be argued that it’s counterintuitive to try to force tsubakino into these certain labels. but i ask you to ask yourselves this question: if tsubaki wasn’t male, then why would nii satoru write a character like them attending an all-boys school? it certainly wouldn’t harbor good implications if this was true, as it would imply the fact that even if they identify as another gender identity, they are ultimately male.

tsubakino has never used a label for themselves throughout the story, so it makes sense as to why the confusion exists. but then again, i dont think things like these need to be spelt out to the audience.

in essence, tsubaki is undoubtedly queer. his story and his character are both very important to me, and the same applies to many people in the fandom. wind breaker has not only amazing, but explicit queer representation; something which is very rare in ‘mainstream’ mangas, as nii sensei is upfront about his identity with no filter or censorship

although it is important to distinguish what exactly tsubaki represents and how it connects with queer identity and maybe even wbks themes, at the end of the day they are tsubaki. after all, gender is just a small part of who we are. im not trying to diminish their gender id, but i think people are too fixated on whether tsubaki was intended to be written as x or y, rather than understanding whats been presented in the text on an objective level and its overarching themes

in a similar vein, you are you, no matter if youre queer or not, no matter if you like to use labels for yourself or not. infighting like this is fucking stupid and pointless. lets all love tsubaki for his character and for who he is

[perpetuallyexhaustedlibrarian]

I've been thinking a lot about Makochi and its culture/society a lot lately, since I'm writing a Wind Breaker fic.

I wanted to talk a little about my headcanons/predictions on why things are the way they are in the Wind Breaker universe.

When I first started watching the show, I thought of Wind Breaker as 'an AU where gangs of teenagers rule the sections of the city and battle each other almost like feudal lords'.... and it turns out that's not actually far from the truth. But I think it's deeper than that. Nii-sensei is a much better writer than someone who would just shrug and say "that's just how things are."

I think Makochi is a city stricken with extreme poverty. We see it with Suzuri and his gang of orphans that had to beg and steal to keep each other alive, splitting a single cookie among ten people. We see it with the orphanage that Ume and Kotoha grow up in. In that none of our main cast seem to have parents, that there seem to be no middle-aged people in Makochi, just much older and much younger.

I think that sometime in the past, the gangs started to move in on Makochi, maybe paid off the police, and the police stopped doing their jobs. Or claimed it was too dangerous to do their jobs.

And so the well off people and businesses leave the area, taking jobs with them. The city government can't collect taxes to try to fix things from people with no money. There aren't enough jobs, so young men join gangs to survive. And so we get all the different gangs in Makochi, each with their little square of turf on the map: Shishitoren, KEEL, Noroshi, Furin High.

I think that the adults in Makochi accept being protected by these literal children because no one else will. The city and its people were left behind, failed by those in authority, until Umemiya decided to try to change things. That's why the teachers don't mind when kids leave class or go on patrols. That's why the townspeople love their Bofurin boys so much.

[loganelfreeces]

Let's Talk About Akari Kiryu

Because we've only had her for 3 chapters and I fucking love her.

If you haven't been keeping up with the Wind Breaker Manga, spoiler for chapters 171 onwards, but this is Kiryu's older sister.

The boys run into her while they're showing Sakura the wonders of a mall and Akari seems to be on a date. But once it turns out that the guy she's with is a fucking asshole, the boy scare him off and Akari invites them to her and Kiryu's house.

She's a little cheeky, since she knows that Kiryu is a very private person and keeps his family life and his school life very seperate, but she still insists on inviting the Bofurin boys in and Kiryu lets her.

It's interesting how Mitsuki and Akari both see each other as being similar to each other as well.

Both Akari and Mitsuki see the other as having their head in the clouds and not getting along with others easily, just like how Mitsuki was worried about the guy taking advantage of Akari in the mall.

Both Akari and Mitsuki have the ability to laugh off serious and bad situations as well, due to the complicated situation with their family.

But the fun times in Mitsuki's annex are cut short when we find out someone is yelling at Akari about a 7pm curfew. It turns out to be their father.

When it looks like Mitsuki and Terunobu are about to come to blows, Akari steps in to defuse the situation.

She risked becoming the subject of her father's wrath to protect Mitsuki. If the phone hadn't rung, I fully believe he would have yelled at Akari until he was satisfied.

And when Mitsuki was going to yell at Akari to stand up for herself, she again diffused the situation before Mitsuki could continue.

While Mitsuki may see this as Akari giving into their father's demands, I think this is actually a sign of Akari's inner strength.

Sakura notices this too and when we next see Akari, she's not acting as a high class mopey rich girl does.

She's waiting tables in a cafe.

If Akari was relying entirely on her parents and their family's money to go to University, she'd have no need to work a cafe.

And if Akari was perfectly okay with what Terunobu was saying and doing to her and Mitsuki, she would've just left the two of them to yell at each other and fight so she could escape unharmed.

I think Akari recognises that both she and Mitsuki are rebelling against their parents. But she knows this Mitsuki's rebellion is unsustainable. There's only so far dying your hair, getting peircings and becoming a delinquant can get you out of a financially and emotionally controlling situation.

Akari can't stop Terunobu from hurting Mitsuki, but she can redirect his anger at her. And while she can't stop Mitsuki from being frustated at her for never shouting back, she also understands pragmatically that she has to protect her little brother and that shouting won't solve everything.

Akari's fight to protect herself and Mitsuki is indirect, but two pronged.

She's ensuring she'll be financially self reliant, enough so to look after Mitsuki after she graduates University, and she's getting a part time job as well to help her prepare for that in the meantime.

And she's playing keeper in the house as well, helping to minimise the amount of chances for Mitsuki to clash with their other family members.

Akari is doing what she can to keep herself and Mitsuki safe from their parents. And that takes a certain amount of inner strength that we haven't seen from many of the Wind Breaker characters yet.

I'm not entirely sure how the situation in the Kiryu family will be resolved, if it will happen this arc, or if the "friend" of Akari's is gonna do something delinquenty like kidnap her, or if Bofurin will end up having to protect Mitsuki and Akari from the Kiryu family. But I sorta hope a more subtle form of survival and rebelion gets to be shown in this arc and we can see more of Akari going forward.

[helly-ena]

ether as severance + “the courtship of kier and imogene” (relationship parallels)

(just so we’re clear, while the kier-imogene dynamic is clearly paralleled with helena and mark, it is also reiterated in cobel and mark, dr mauer and gemma, and even burt and irving to some extent; season 2 has also made it a point to show us that helena and cobel are both victims in their own ways while being perpetrators. it is not a black and white situation and misogyny will get you blocked.)

original threads: (x), (x)

[loganelfreeces]

This makes me curious about why Hiragi dyed his hair.

We know Hiragi didn't dye his hair immediately after joining up with Umemiya's cause, as his hair was still black when he told Sako that he wasn't going to aim for the top spot anymore.

But when the 4 Kings assemble to start conquering Furin and turning the place upside down? His hair is dyed then and he has his Gas-kun 10.

What changed?

Hiragi doesn't seem like the kind of person who'd change his hair after a break up (unlike someone, Sako). Nor is it shown to be a direct result of him siding with Umemiya, as he still has the black hair when he turns Sako down.

But if I remember correctly from his character profile, Hiragi is stressed out about how much he bleaches his hair.

So why would the eternally stressed Hiragi do something that stresses him out on purpose? Especially something that he has more control over, like his hair colour.

I think we're missing some Hiragi backstory, between the Hirasako break up and the First Day of Furin for the Third Years.

And given the gravity of hair dye symbolism, I think we'll see it. I hope at least.

Do you think Nirei dyed his hair cause he wanted to try and fit in more with the delinquents in furin or so he wouldn't be recognizable to the people he went to middle school with

oooo these are both good points!

I think it'd fall into the first category more, but I think it's also a bit of smth else

We've seen a good handful of furin boys (and others, like sako) dye their hair in the period between middle school and high school, which has also been a period of change between a lot of these characters

take: kaji, who dyed his hair between middle school, when he was still struggling to control his anger blackouts, and now when it's much more under control than it was hiragi, who dyed his hair between middle school and joining umemiya as part of the group who radicalized furin sako, who dyed his hair after separating from hiragi and joining shishitoren and starting on his vengeful spite arc kiryu, who dyed his hair between middle and high school, when he decided to try and protect his older sister in the only way he knew how

dying hair in wind breaker seems to, to these characters, be a mark of transition/change into someone different than they are/once were; this is something that people do irl too, especially in trasitionary periods like middle to high school, or high school to college/etc.

I think nirei not only dyed his hair to seem "cooler"/a possible confidence boost, but also to mark that (starting from the day he dyed his hair) he's planning to grow and change, like a lot of other characters have done, which I think is pretty cool!

[loganelfreeces]

Umemiya's Savior, Shitara Yuki, and the Old Furin (Knowledge and Theories)

Now, if anyone paid attention during the Umemiya's Backstory chapters (93-97), I'm sure we all noticed two important players in it.

Shitara Yuki, Umemiya's foster care worker who looks after him.

And the Mysterious Furin 3rd Year Student who saved Umemiya's life.

I've done a little data collecting, analysing and theorising about what knowledge we do have about these two and what information they can tell us about the old Furin before Umemiya was even in middle school. And potentially where they are now and how they could return in the future.

Shitara Yuki (設楽 優希)

According to this Kanji translator, his name means:

設 means "establishment, provision, prepare" 楽 means "music, comfort, ease" (the tree radical in most Furin names is here, I think) 優 means "tenderness, excel, surpass, actor, superiority, gentleness" 希 means "hope, beg, request, pray"

Since we have more knowledge about Shitara, I'd say he's the easier puzzle to crack, so let's start with him.

We know he's a bit of a goofball who keeps a dorky, brave face for the kids to protect them from the violence surrounding Makochi at this time.

But he does deeply care about and is protective of the Furinen kids, scolding them when they worry him and kindly smiling when they need to talk some emotional stuff through.

What I'm most interested is what he says about Furin.

Notice how the other orphanage worker is talking about Furin and Shitara says "That stings", and she responds with "But I'm not talking about you?"

Then there's Mystery Student's comment about how "It's not like what happened during your generation".

Shitara Theories

From these comments we can all but confirm that Shitara was a Former Furin Student, likely while it was a delinquent school when the students were "a little more well-behaved" and didn't provoke the nearby teams. And Mystery Student could have known Shitara when he was a student, or heard second hand through Shitara about his time in the school.

Shitara could also be a glimpse into Umemiya's future; what happens after Umemiya gradutes? Does he stay involved in protecting the town? Or does he work in Furinen, being a good caretaker for kids like him? Or does he become a teacher in Furin, protecting the students?

But that's enough about Shitara. Now onto the main event:

Umemiya's Savior

We have comparatively less information about him, so I'm just analysing him to Hell and back.

What we can infer from the visual information is that he's a 3rd year student (so 17 or 18 when Umemiya is 9, making him 26 or 27 in canon time). He also wears a chain necklace with some kinda charm on the end. Less important, but he has lighter coloured short hair, but we all know hair is allowed to change in this world (Nirei, Kiryu, Umemiya).

I know a few people wondered if he could be Takiishi, but considering Takiishi is around the same age as Umemiya, it's unlikely.

First thing we can confirm is that he's strong. Specifically that he went to Furin because he wanted to get stronger "just like someone we both know", meaning himself and Shitara.

Second we can confirm that Savior was in Furinen for 6 months, 8 years before he met Umemiya (17 years ago in canon timeline). Savior would've been 9 or 10 years old at that time. Not only that, but Shitara kept an eye on this kid, the same way he's kept an eye on Umemiya since then. He also has a close enough relationship with Shitara to trust him to handle stuff he's ill equipped to manage.

Thirdly we can confirm that though Savior was one of the Furin Students wrecking the town, it comes from a place of wanting to protect it. He's trying to stop the teams and gangs from getting too big and becoming a problem for the local area.

So those are the concrete facts. Now for the

Savior Theories

Based on the information gathered, we can confirm that he's got either a role model or a peer he wanted to become stronger for, who Shitara also knew. This person was most likely also a Furinen orphan or a Furin student. And since Windbreaker does this pattern of Serious Guy & Silly Guy (Sakura & Nirei, Umemiya & Hiragi, Togame & Tomiyama, etc), I'm assuming the other student is the Silly to Savior's Serious. As of right now, we can't really make any more guesses about this person.

It's also highly likely that Savior has gone through something traumatic, in order to give him this outlook on Umemiya's situation. It likely influiences why he didn't try to talk Umemiya down from his suicidal thoughts until after Umemiya attempted it himself. He could well have been putting on an act of indifference though to, in a way, give Umemiya permission to make up his own mind about the situation without someone who "cared" about him getting in the way.

Based on the way that Shitara calls out Savior on the mess of the town and the idea that strength shouldn't be used in this way, and how Savior is trying to protect the town by taking down the smaller teams, part of why Savior could've wanted to be stronger is so he could physically defend the town and have what it takes to overcome life's difficulties.

Where Savior is now?

This is more thumbtacks and string zones, but I think he could be one of Suo's martial arts brothers, based on a connection @101suouexpressions pointed out in this fantastic meta here.

Or if I can be much more cracky with my headcanons, I think Savior could have trained Sakura or is the Weather contact in his phone, based on their Big Damn Heroes entrances when saving a weakling in an alleyway.

One thing I'm certain of is Savior is highly unlikely to be in Noroshi or one of the random towns folk. The character design and the significance to Umemiya's backstory even without a name reveal proves that this guy is too important to remain a shadow in Umemiya's past forever.

He, Shitara and the "Silly to Savior's Serious" character are most likely gonna turn up in an arc closer to Umemiya's graduation, when the fate of Bofurin's status as Defenders Of Makochi is under threat with Umemiya soon being forced out of the role by the Japanese schooling system.

Savior may turn up in a gang of his own that have been opperating under their own banner trying to protect somewhere near Makochi, but not near enough that Umemiya would randomly run into him and learn his name. Then they could be paralleled with the Noroshi, who are the Furin drop outs who never graduated and became trouble makers, focusing on this other team as being graduates of Furin who stop trouble.

Or if I could be self indulgent, I'd say that Savior is gonna turn up in the Suo Yakuza arc I imagine happening in the future (I'll make a post about this later.)

Guess we'll just have to wait and see what comes next.

[helly-ena]

aggregation of several threads w/ similar observations

[dandelionjack]

oh my god the secret reddit leaks were deliberately coordinated by official sources, like an ARG. has any other tv show ever done something like that? ceaselessly making new strides, blurring all lines between fiction and reality, between fandom and licensed creators, that’s my doctor who!!!

[loganelfreeces]

Everything.

I want to bash open his skull so I can study him under a microscope.

So, to recap, Hayato Suo:

Does basically everything with a permanent smile on his face (it's NOT always reassuring).

Wears an eyepatch and we absolutely do not know if there is a working eye beneath it.

He claims there is a Chinese spirit under the aforementioned eyepatch. In the character book he states this seal was "about to be broken", whatever that means.

He introduces himself as Leonardo Fucking Dicaprio for some reason.

He is touchy.

He calls other guys "Cutie" (derogatory) (is it only derogatory?).

He teases people (Sakura) as if it's second nature.

He can (and might) actually kill you.

His Hobby is freaking Human Observation which leads to his best subject being Chem and his freaking best skill being World Manipulation.

His favorite music is Folk Music.

His dream is the Emancipation of Slaves (which. Holy Moly Ravioli. The others listed a gf or a trip and there he goes).

Has a Master and Brothers (Relatives? Other disciples of this Master?) we know absolutely nothing about.

He NEVER eats. The single panel in the manga where he is shown eating has been "corrected" in the anime adaptation with him handing the food to Nirei. And he claims to be on a (unspecified) diet.

He has yet to go all-out.

Berates others on what it takes to be an adult (he is at most 16).

He claims to be a "chill guy" (spoilers, he is not)

What is wrong with him.

[glazedcroissant]

Kirby likes to be carried v2(two) !!

[impossibleanimegirl]

[loganelfreeces]

My personal theory is that he's like this because he's not exactly fully alligned with Furin. This can mean a few things.

His loyalities to another group, maybe one his Master and brothers are in, or his parents, are stronger than his alliegance to Furin and thus why he abstanes from eating with people.

Suo doesn't completely believe in the Furin motto of "protect the town, understand others, don't punish and instead offer redemption and assistance".

Suo hasn't decided where his loyalties are yet. He's either figuring out his moral compass, or he's deciding if it's more strategic to only ally with Furin compared to keeping his options open, or Suo is testing Furin by watching how the leaders and his classmates react to certain situations to see if their morals and words align.

tbh i cannot wait for the suo backstory reveal bc i cant help but notice that in the story where after every single fight they place emphasis on EATING WITH PEOPLE and FOOD BRINGS YOU TOGETHER and how umemiya's whole fucking backstory revolves around EATING WITH FAMILY.... suo does not eat!

he uses the flimsy excuse of being on a diet or whatever but this is the "i win fights so i can eat with everyone and feel content" manga!!! LET THAT BOY EAT!!!

literally integral to the plot! its symbolising his closed off personality! he doesnt eat so he doesnt feel connection with others!

[somehow-a-human]

DO NOT ASK NEIL ABOUT FAN THEORY

Michael babygirl, I apologize now for the close-up screenshots of your mouth I am going to put on the internet. Call Neil if you have issues with it, it's his fault. Brain-rotting brought on by the lovely @melbatron5000!!!

Honey, why are you chewing on a ball bearing? I was going to be lenient and say it's a glint off of some saliva but nah are you sucking on a damn pie weight. I didn't see you take a bite of any dippin dots??? Who let her near my stash of Buckyballs that I've been hiding from the Consumer Product Safety Commission? Just because you are bbgurl doesn't mean you get to eat bbpellets.

[nenoname]

It's still interesting that TBoB called more attention to Stan's control over his mindscape (And if you go with the interpretation that the lost pages are partial truths that are heavily influenced by Bill, then he's the one insisting that only someone with training should be able to have that much control over the mind.)

Meanwhile we have a memory!Stan. Someone who apparently knows too much and is rather aware for being a simple memory.

From the Wheel of Shame, we know Bill was able dig up all kinds of dirt on Stan but... that wasn't why he was there in the first place, was it?

Bill couldn't find the code immediately despite a memory of Stan opening the safe being a few hours old at most and decided to have Mabel try find it for him (The original concept of the ep had it far more hidden but this was likely cut because of time constraints)

Ford did experiments on Stan's mind which likely meant using Project Mentem and actually looking around his mindscape, and his only reaction was to comment on his jokes-- despite what little we the audience know being enough to render us sobbing wrecks

(yes I refuse to shut up about this part cos the book's intro is extremely underrated)

Stan was able to replace his memories of Ford with the swingset instead and managed to hide Ford in his Bar Mitzvah memory. And that's not even mentioning the lack of visible Portal and Stan o' War which noticeably show up in Ford's dreamscape (the broken swingset manifesting anyway pains me tho)

He subconsciously has misdirects for his secrets that are both silly and manages to disturb everyone too

And while Bill-as-Soos being bored by the vending machine memory is a joke that's basically the crew's way of going "hey remember the thing way back in the first ep that's going to show up in the next one?" and in-universe appears to be Stan slipping up, it's interesting that they had Stan input the wrong code when it's consistent literally every other time its inputted (especially when it shows up correctly in the very next episode)

It's even possible that the safe code that Bill found could have been a misdirect too but we'll never know since the safe got blown open by dynamite.

Stan was able to buy time by making his mind blank despite being genuinely terrified when Bill enters his mind (to the point that he breaks character and uses his own voice to yell), and could conjure up his living room (in colour opposed to his mind's regular greyscale) to make sure Bill didn't have enough room to flee, slamming the door in his face before the effects of the memory gun kicked in.

(EDIT: Random door analysis here)

And maybe the twins eventually told him that Bill had already been inside his mind after their W3 reunion, but all we know was that his conscious self was left in the dark for ages and wasn't really aware of Bill until Weirdmageddon.

TBoB showing McGucket's dreamscape also brings up the idea of the effects of the memory gun manifesting differently to each person. To Stan's mindscape, the memory wipe manifests as blue flames which immediately brings to mind Bill's powers but it's a far lighter shade (maybe to more closely match the memory gun and its eventual fade to white?)

The end of TBoB and the website poem also firmly reminds us about Stan's connection to fire but there's also the question if Stan himself is actually aware of it...

[loganelfreeces]

Shishitoren's Founder: The Silly to Saviour's Serious?

Hey guys, remember when I made that post a while ago about some theories I had about who Umemiya's Saviour is and the kind of person he is and how he'll come back? And how I mentioned he and Shitara know a third person who I have cleverly dubbed the Silly to Saviour's Serious?

We only know three things about this person

They inspired Saviour

They wanted to get stronger by going to Furin

They know Shitara and Saviour due to a Furin connection

So my braincells slammed together and suggested that the Silly to Saviour's Serious guy could in fact be one of Shishitoren's founders or at least one of the main inspirations behind their philosophy. I have no idea if I'm making sense, I'm writing this at 2am and I could be clutching at straws here, but let's roll with it.

Shishitoren's Unclear Origins

Now I bring this up because of the main gangs who have turned up so far, Shishitoren are the only ones with unclear origins.

Umemiya united Furin into Bofurin 2 years ago. KEEL sprung up recently under Endo's funding and then disintegrated. Roppo-Ichiza have been running for a while, protecting the Red Light District and fighting with Furin before Bofurin happened. Gravel sprung up recently out of despiration to provide the impovished people in town with an income. Noroshi are an elite force who left Furin, but have enough connections to muster an army of mooks.

Shishitoren are the only ones we do not know the true origins of. Despite this, we still have a very strong picture of what their philosophy was before Tomiyama and Togame twisted it.

Shishitoren are the Devotees of Power. This means you must persevere, no matter what. You need to push your will through in a fight and never yield to anyone else. You push yourself because strength is the only way you can attain freedom.

The Person Behind The Philosophy

Now, assuming that only one person directly founded Shishitoren and their philosophy, we can then make a few assumptions about this person.

This is a person who has faced immense hardships to get to where they are now, presumably the top of Shishitoren when they created this philosophy.

And given the way Saviour talks about how life won't stop hitting you with tough stuff again and again, I imagine Saviour has had both first hand experience of enduring these difficulties and that Someone Else showed him that there is a way to live through the hardest times.

There's also the fact that strength allows one to become free. While Tomiyama had no idea what this meant, Sakura and Togame do; only those with power are free to be themselves.

Which suggests that Shishitoren's Founder, whoever it was, came from a very restrictive environment that stopped them from being themself.

Then there's the idea of fighting being a means of pushing your will through. I think Shishitoren's Founder understood something that Umemiya taught us near the start of the manga: A fight is a conversation. A fight is a way to push your will through.

Which means that Shishitoren's Founder, if they did come from a restrictive environment, escaped it by becoming strong enough emotionally and physically to push themself through life and let their personality be free.

Potential Connections?

Bringing all these details back to the Silly to Saviour's Serious guy, I think it's very telling that the first main thing we know about this person is that they wanted to get stronger.

Like, on the one hand, of course Silly would be strong if they're on par with Saviour, but that is very much a given in this manga that anyone important to the plot is strong. And most of our other characters who are strong don't get introduced or mentioned with that as their tag line; Suo cracks a joke, Kiryu is chilling with his phone, Umemiya is a airheaded goofball. Why would Nii Satoru focus on Silly's desire to get stronger above anything else?

It's also unclear if Shishitoren, the Devotees of Power, were active when Umemiya was 9. However Saviour does tell us that new teams and gangs sprung up all the time at this stage of Furin's history, so it would make sense if Shishitoren and maybe even Roppo-Ichiza started to find their footing during this period of upheaval.

I think it's also important to note that Hiragi says Tomiyama, who is 17, is the youngest leader in Shishitoren's history who took the top spot some time after Choji's 15th birthday (since he wasn't the leader when he fought Umemiya in his first year). This of course implies that Shishitoren have been around long enough to have multiple leaders and that most of them were not high school aged at this time. Given that Saviour is probably 26 or 27 now, this could mean one of two things:

Shishitoren's Founder is the same age as him, but founded Shishitoren after high school. The latest they could have possibly done this was when they were 24 or 25, but I highly doubt that since they would've been that old when Tomiyama and Umemiya were fighting each other for the first time and Shishitoren seemed to have been better established than the other teams Bofurin had fought before. Though the earliest I would put it at is when Shishitoren's Founder was 20, which again if they're the same age as Saviour, Umemiya and Tomiyama would've been 11. Plenty of time for Shishitoren to get established.

Shishitoren's Founder is older than Saviour and founded Shishitoren after high school. If they are the Silly to Saviour's Serious, then this means they could have played more of a mentor role like the one we see with Hiragi and Kaji, rather than a peer to peer relationship I had initially imagined. Though this makes a lot more sense for how Saviour handled Umemiya's suicidal idealiation if Silly helped Saviour in a mentor role rather than a friendship role. It could also suggest that Silly wasn't loyal to Furin, and potentially neither was Saviour; they just went there to get stronger.

Where is Shishitoren's Founder Now?

Obviously at some point Shishitoren's Founder/Silly to Saviour's Serious and Umemiya's Saviour left Makochi and their respective teams. So where are they now?

Shishitoren's Founder could have left Makochi in search of stronger opponants, or to enjoy that freedom they fought so hard to gain in the first place. I don't think they're still in Makochi since they would have stepped in if they found out that Shishitoren had rotted from the inside out. OR maybe they are still in Makochi but they either no longer care about Shishitoren itself or they don't care about being strong anymore. Either one is possible, though I think them not being in Makochi is much more likely.

I think they may end up returning if Shishitoren have another trouble arc. Not one where Tomiyama or Togame have fallen on the wrong path again, but if Shishitoren are at risk of being destroyed or overwhelmed. After all, changing Shishitoren from the inside after letting it get so bad couldn't have been easy for Tomiyama and Togame. It's possible some former Shishitoren guys saw the return to the old ways as a bad thing and formed their own team to retaliate. We know from flashbacks that Shishitoren often had trouble with a group called Zinc when Tomiyama and Togame were still new to the team, so it's possible Zinc could turn out to be a problem later on if the disgrunted Shishitoren members joined them.

Shishitoren's Founder might just happen to be coming back to Makochi when the fight is about to go down, OR Shishitoren's Founder is the one leading the charge against the current Shishitoren with their own new gang. If that's the case, then this could be Sakura and the other Furin guys' chance to return the help that Shishitoren gave them in the Noroshi arc.

OR if my theories are correct and Shishitoren's Founder is the person that Shitara and Saviour were talking about, I think he and Saviour will show up closer to Umemiya's graduation. That is scheduled to happen in March and we're only in July right now timeline wise, so we have a long way to go before we get there.

If all 3 of them become more relevant during the lead up to Umemiya's graduation, then this means the three could offer different paths for Umemiya to take:

Shitara's Path: Stay in Makochi and care for the local kids as either an orphanage worker or a Furin teacher.

Saviour's Path: Recognise when other people are better equipped at a job and leave them to it.

Founder's Path: Live free of responsibilities and leave Makochi to get stronger from here on out.

Also I bet y'all money that Shishitoren's Founder has birds or lions somewhere in their name. It'd make sense since (at least in the Western world I'm not so sure about Japan) birds are a symbol of freedom. Or maybe Shishitoren's Founder actually has a different kanji for dog in their name, since Sakura called their emblam an ugly dog the first time he saw it.

Who knows, maybe Shishitoren's Founder is related to Inugami.

So yeah that is my 2am frantic thoughts about Shishitoren's past. I'm so looking forward to discovering more about the worldbuilding and what happend to make the town the way it is now.