#TLTTNW

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[ARCHIVED - TLTTNW] Which Gold Saucer date (FFVII OG) is canon?

Of all the optional scenes and choices dialogues, the Gold Saucer date (FFVII OG) is one that get much debated as to which of the four choices is the canon one. Yes, objectively, it's four, not two. Aerith, Tifa, Barret, and Yuffie. And in this post, I'm doing best to find the most plausible answer that question.

1. How to decide which option is canon

Now, when a scene has options, how to concretely decide which of the options is the canon? In my opinion, it's gonna be either or all of the below:

The chosen option itself is later acknowledged in a NON-OPTIONAL scene.

The chosen option is NOTICABLLY LONGER and provide USEFUL information to the plot as a whole

The chosen option is the MOST LIKELY to happen.

And as said in my opening post, I won't count any remarks outside the game itself. Some core personnel could go on an interview and said "this is the canon" and it's still an invalid statement. In case we still haven't noticed, up until the release of Remake trilogy, Square Enix has never made a conscious effort to clear up the Love Triangle Debate. If anything, they are actually encouraging it, keeping it flaming by having contradicting details spread throughout the side materials.

2. Case study: Shadow Hearts and Chrono Cross endings

Shadow Hearts

Let's move a bit from FFVII and turn to Shadow Hearts (if you don't know the game, please just google). Basically at the end of Shadow Hearts, if you go with the flow of the event, Alice will die. If you do a bit of extra fighting, she will live. Both ending gets its own FMV. So far, I would say both endings are canonical. Because while the good ending requires a bit more work, it's reasonable enough, and it still has its own FMV where Alice open her eyes (she lives!).

But then Shadow Hearts II came out, on the premise that Alice died in the previous game. Bam! Now we know of the two endings of Shadow Hearts, which one is canon... And Shadow Hearts II is neither side material nor spin-off game. It's the second installment, with Yuri remains the main character. So we can't invalidate its presence as to what really happened, canonically, in Shadow Hearts.

Chrono Cross

Another game from Square. Like Shadow Hearts, you can do a Good Ending or Bad Ending, all depending on how you tackle the final boss. Bad Ending is easier to achieve since you only have to attack randomly, whereas Good Ending requires a bit more planning.

Anyway, who to decide which one is canon? Unlike Shadow Hearts, there is no sequel to decide that for you.

By my definition, the Good Ending is probably canon, because you get a lengthy cut-scene, and after-credit FMVs, whereas you get nothing (just credit roll) with Bad Ending (that's more like a Game Over if you ask me...).

Now, back to FFVII

3. Barret or Yuffie is certainly not canon

None of the four dates get mentioned later in the game. So by my definition, point (1) can't be used.

Coming to point (2), Barret's and Yuffie's date are short compared to Aerith's and Tifa's, and add little value to the plot (except for a bit of character development on their sides).

Coming to point (3), then Barret and Yuffie are out of the picture. Because to get to date either of them would require you making very specific choices right from the beginning. Which means the chance that you get to date either of them is rather slim, under normal circumstances (ie. without a guide).

So we are left with just Aerith and Tifa.

4. Aerith or Tifa?

There are two points people present to argue that Aerith's date is canon.

It's because Aerith OFFERED Cloud a date as payment for his bodyguard work.

It's because Aerith started off with more affection points (50 vs 30 to be exact)

Let's discuss further.

The Date payment

Aerith OFFERED Cloud a date as payment for his bodyguard work. And the Gold Saucer date is THAT day. But during the scene, Aerith just asked Cloud to go on a date, without ever mentioning about the "date" payment (and it's Aerith who has to "pay" the date, she owes him that, not the other way around). And no matter what, THE date can still be missed altogether, because it's not non-optional. If it's so important, they would have made it non-optional.

The Affection Point Mechanism

Aerith starts off with more affection points than Tifa does (50 vs 30 to be exact), meaning it's easier to date her (or so they say). What people fail to mention is that, Tifa appears in the game earlier than Aerith does, and you can score points with her right from the beginning. Meaning if you start to favor Tifa from the beginning, by the time you meet Tifa again, the point gap might not exist at all. So from a gameplay perspective, I could argue that Aerith's higher point of affection compared to Tifa's is not because the game wanted to give her a head start with Cloud, but to give her a fair start instead. You can try to see how exactly the date mechanism work here.

It's also worth noting that:

It's easy to score big points with Tifa from the early chapters.

You don't score many with Aerith when you spend time alone with her in Sector 5 (suprised?!).

If Tifa was chosen as Don Corneo's bride, telling Aerith to help Tifa will upset Aerith (points deduced). If it was Aerith that got chosen, Tifa would prefer Cloud to go help Aerith instead of asking if her (Tifa) is alright (points added). Interesting eh? (only if it wasn't a coding mistake...)

I don't have a suitable explanation as to how the all points addition and deduction the works the way it does. The way I see it, the game just tries to make the chance equal to both girls. And through my experience of playing the game, it's most likely the case. You just have to make the obvious choices favoring your girl, and then keep her in your party once you leave Midgar and bam, you get a date!

The game code

Another piece of information that I MUST mention: in the game code (according to the internet), in case Aerith and Tifa gets equal points, Aerith's date will play out.

If that's the kind of proof that you need to prove that Aerith's date is canon, I won't argue with you. It's clear that Aerith's date does take a higher priority (albeit only ever slightly) than Tifa's date, according how the game is coded.

WHY is it, is another matter. We can only guess. You can say it's because the game wants us to see Aerith's date (well yeah..., the game totally doesn't want us to see Tifa's date, sure). My explanation? It's because Aerith's screen time is limited in the game, so the game prioritizes her, when there's a chance. Still, that doesn't make Aerith's date canon, because despite all the apparent "favor" the game has for her date, it can still easily be missable, as it's never hard to get Tifa's date.

5. Which date is the most appropriate to the flow of the story THUS FAR?

This part is purely my (a player's) opinion, and actually doesn't hold any weight to the issue.

Well, Barret's and Yuffie's are certainly just there for the laugh, and for THEIR character development, not Cloud's.

Aerith's shreds some light on her back story (she knows somebody whom Cloud resembles), her awareness of Cloud not being himself, and her desire to meet the "real" Cloud. That much is clear.

Tifa's date, on the other hand, is a bit more complicated to interpret. On the surface, it's easy to see that she was about to confess but failed. But with the knowledge of how the game story eventually unfolds, was that really the case? Or could it be that Tifa was actually trying to talk to Cloud about his mental state?

I don't know, honestly, but my thought on Tifa's date is:

The atmosphere clearly gears towards a romantic confession than to a therapy session. The game certainly wants you to think that it's a confession (whether or not it's true is another story; it's not exactly a new thing for FFVII narrative to be misleading).

It's a bit out of place at that point of the story for Tifa to try confess her feeling to Cloud. She has better concerns on hand (particularly, his mental state) than to get Cloud realize her feeling. Not totally implausible, but definitely not well handled in my opinion.

In FFVII Rebirth, Tifa really did confess in that Gold Saucer scene though (provided that you get to date her). Just saying. Not that what happens in the Remake Trilogy, stritcly speaking, matters to what happens in the OG though. BUT, I do feel that a confession in Rebirth is appropriate, because Cloud and Tifa's relationship has been developed steadily ever since Remake (that's not the case in the OG though).

So yah, all things considered, I think Aerith's date adds more value to the plot AT THAT POINT than Tifa's because it provides players more apparent information (Zack, Cloud not being himself, Aerith being aware of the situation and her wish to meet the "real" Cloud).

Tifa's scene is not bad, but if it was EVER the game's intention to mislead us that it's a therapy session instead of a confession, they overdid it to effectively convince me that it could actually be about her trying to talk about Cloud's mental state.

6. Conclusion

So, in my conclusion, either of the dates can be canon. Normally I would say it can also be that neither is canon. But then, the Gold Saucer date scene ought to happen (because you know, Cait Sith's betrayal came next). The Gold Saucer date scene is actually non-optional, only whom you go on a date with is.

In any case, having no clear answer to that means whom Cloud dated during the Gold Saucer scene adds no value to the love triangle debate (for all we know, he could just have had some bro time with Barret, or got pecked on the cheek by Yuffie). And even if one particular date is canon, it still doesn't say much or even anything about Cloud's feelings, with the way the scenes played out.

On a side note, the whole date mechanism is NOT to determine which one Cloud himself preferred to take on a date, but to determine which one would to drag Cloud on a date :))))))))))) Ie. it's about THEIR affection towards Cloud, based on how he behaves around them (based on HOW THE GAME WANTS to add or deduce points). Asking Tifa if she was okay in Don Corneo's mansion certainly showed care and concern to her, but will get your points deduced.

You see, you think you have choices in the game, but do you really though?

7. Extra: Cloud's reaction to the dates

I'm not including Barret's and Yuffie's here because we can all agree that their dates are just pure comedy.

Aerith's date

At the end of the date with, Aerith asked Cloud:

“Don’t you like being with me?”

To which Cloud can reply either “No, I don’t.” or “That’s not it.”

Tifa's date

At the end of the date, Cloud asked Tifa:

“By the way, what did you want to say a minute ago?”

I honestly can't get much from the dialogues. As far as I'm concerned, Cloud is pretty neutral and doesn't show much to both girls. If anything, you actually have the choice to be rude to Aerith by choosing to say you don't like being with her, whereas you're quite okay with Tifa. But as you know I don't do choice dialogues, we can skip that one.

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[ARCHIVED - TLTTNW] Analysis style - Before we enter any discussion...

Before I created this Tumblr blog, I was writing a series of posts on Wordpress detailing how there was never a love triangle, not even in the OG. The project is scrapped now because @dutchdread already did a much better job that I have little of value to add.

But I did spend a lot of time writing, and it just seems a waste to let them stay as drafts forever on my Wordpress blog. So yeah, here they are, on this Tumbler blog, just for archiving purpose.

But who knows, maybe I will keep writing, if only just to practice my English writing skill.

The series is named TLTTNW - The Love Triangle That Never Was, just for the sake of archiving.

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Before we enter any discussion, there are a few points I want to make clear, regarding how I approach any topics.

1. I support Cloud x Tifa

I like Tifa as a playing character and support Cloud x Tifa just because the pairing makes sense with all what presented in the game to me.

2. This series will largely talk about the infamous love triangle

Or as I like to say: the love triangle that never was. No non-bias promise (I'm human after all), but I guarantee you that I won't be toxic.

3. When discussing OG, I disregard all the side materials (novellas, Ultimania, ...)

And to a lesser extend, spin-off games like Crisis Core. As far as I know, UP UNTIL THE RELEASE OF REMAKE TRIOLOGY, side materials provide all sorts of conflicting information that is of no help in determining the "truth". One can quote this and omit that to support their claims. And thus, the war goes on...

Another problem is, it's questionable as to whether all those side materials and spin-off games can be considered canon. Heck, I don't even know if the core people involved in making the side materials and spin-off game did play the OG or not, OR if the OG core developers had any say in those, OR if the OG core developers remembered the game they made well AND tried to stay as cohesive as possible with all those side materials and spin-offs.

So, to be fair to all side, everything said in those side materials are none of my concern. Only what happened in the game matters the most. If you need side materials to confirm something that none of the characters in the game acknowledge, such confirmation doesn't weight much in my opinion. If you want players to know something, let them know through the game they're playing, not through some side materials, be it official or not.

Now, ever since FFVII Remake was released, I've noticed that Square Enix has been trying to tie loose ends with new side materials (Traces of Two Pasts novel, accompanying Ultimanias), Crisis Core Remake, and an "entirely" new game Ever Crisis that spans the whole timeline of FFVII Universe from way back when Sephiroth is young to the current, with visual elements from Remake Trilogy. Those, I think we can safely assume that, are canon, and cohesive as a whole. Some details of events are a bit different, but ultimately it's the same story. So, while I will stay mostly with the OG (let's kill the love triangle way back in OG), when comes the time to discuss Remake Trilogy, I think it's safe to take those into account.

5. This is a video game

A. The interaction and multiple choices nature of video games

All works of fiction (a novel, a movie, a TV series, a video game, etc.) will tell a story. Each fiction medium will have its own way and restriction as to how the plot and narrative being handled (you can watch this video (and read the comments) to get explained more on the topic). Among those, video games is distinctly different because players have interaction with the game as the story unfolds. You have choices to make, options to decide. Those are a part of the game play and the narrative, and not necessarily the (canon) plot. Some options are there just to have you involved and immersed in the game world. That's all.

A clear example of options not being canon is the endings of Shadow Hearts (a JRPG, you can goolge for more). In Shadow Hearts, you can play the game in a way to get the good ending, in which Alice is not killed, but canonically, she is dead, as presented in the sequel Shadow Hearts II.

Another thing to consider is, unlike the plot which needs to stay consistent, the behavior of a character that the players get to choose through options might not necessarily be so. For example, you could choose not to give Tifa the flower, not to accept her cocktail, but admit to Aerith that Tifa is your girlfriend, and then later when then three of you fell down the sewer, you decide to check on Aerith first. Nobody in the game will question your inconsistent behaviors because it actually doesn't matter to the plot. The purpose of having choices in a game is more for the gameplay and the players' gaming experience than to establish the plot. Reinforcing it? Maybe. Establishing it? I don't think so.

So in my opinion, if I want to to correctly determine any truth in the plot, I should disregard any choice dialogues and optional scenes. Because if a part is so crucial to the plot, it won't be made optional and thus missable.

B. The narrative nature of a work of fiction and how realism only works to a certain extend

a. The narrative nature of a work of fiction

First and foremost, a work of fiction is created by an author. What happens in it is decided by the author. When it is delivered to you, all courses of action has already been decided. You, as an audience, actually have no say as to how the plot progresses. In case of video games, you may be presented with choices to slightly alter the events, but the core plot will and always stay the same.

Now, the only exception to the above statement is an on-going work of fiction - manga, anime, TV series, ... where audience feedbacks might influence the author to change the course of the plot from the initially intended. But even if that's the case, in a GOOD narrative, the change has to happen gradually, with enough details paved, before the climax happens. Such changes also need not to contradict what have been presented all a long. The author can't just pull an Uno Reverse Card by the end of the work.

HOW the story unfold before you (the narrative) is also decided for you, to get you involved in the story IN A CERTAIN WAY. Which detail is shown, how it is shown, how much of it is shown, how clearly it is shown. In a GOOD narrative (the keyword here is "good"), everything happens before your eye already has a purpose. Certain characters fill certain roles, certain actions lead to certain consequences, or can be explained later by back stories. If something is there, it's because the narrative wants to tell you something. If something is not there, it's simply because it's not vital to the main plot. There is no randomness when it comes to what a character does or doesn't do or to what kind of fate awaits them. Cloud didn't survive the fall to Sector 5's church out of pure luck (in the OG, he didn't even have the grappling gun like he did in FFVII Remake). He survived because the plot decided so, because he's the main character (or as we usually say: plot-armor). Likewise, Aerith's death was not just an unfortunate event happened out of no where. She died because that's part of the plot and it's necessary to advance the story further.

Another important point of narrative in a work of fiction is that, you can actually expect how true a certain event is, based on the way it is presented to you. For example, in a movie, when an important character dies, if he dies on-screens, with all the slow-motion, epic music and flashback, you can say for certain that he is dead. But if he only APPEARS to die, or die unceremoniously, there's a chance that you will see him well alive and kicking later.

b. Realism only works so far

The world of a work of fiction is very limited compared to real life. There simply isn't room to accommodate all kinds of variables there might be as in real life. In a typical hero-saving-the-world type of story, there can only be one hero/hero group that can beat the villain. No one else will try to, or can, do the same.

Which means we should not apply real life's logic how the events in a work of fiction happen, as long as it is logical within its fictional world. The moment you hear yourself saying: "But in reality ...", just stop. Because if you can't take (fictional) events presented to you at face value, nothing the narrative is telling you actually matters anyway. One argument I've seen is "Even if Cloud and Tifa had sex during the Highwind scene, it still didn't mean that Cloud had romantic feelings for her because in real life, people have sex all the time without having to be a couple." I mean, bro, are you alright? I might not know what the Highwind scene actually means, but I'm sure it's not a dating crash-course trying to teach you that that love and sex might or might not come together.

All in all, I believe the correct attitude to any events being presented to you is not to ask "how I want to interpret it?" but "how the author wants me to interpret it?". And to dig deeper to the truth, you have to ask why. Why the author wants me to interpret it THAT way.

c. Genres matter

Another thing is worth pointing out is that fiction genres exist for a good reason. And that reason is that genres establish the main theme of the plot. If it's a romance story, you will see a lot of angst and emotions and dramas between people. Other life matters are trivial compared to the quest of finding one's true love. If it's a detective story, you will see a lot of, well, investigations. The romance aspect could be there, but it's certainly will be quite minimal and straightforward. You can't have have a main character chasing both a criminal and the love of his life at the same time, certainly not in a way happening in a romance story. Because (1) it's gonna prolong the story, and (2) it will dilute the plot and its main focus.

So, how you read a certain event also depends on what genre the work of fiction you are experiencing is. In a romance story, the main couple declaring their love right from chapter 1 could certainly mean that their love will get tested hard throughout the course of the story, or their actual true love awaits them much later. In a detective story, if the main character has a girlfriend/wife from the beginning, the chance the girlfriend/wife stays the same throughout the story is high. They are not the focus of the story, so no need to make it complicated UNLESS IT MATTERS TO THE PLOT AS A WHOLE.

And if it isn't clear enough, the main plot of FFVII isn't romance. I believe we can all agree on that.

C. Plot holes, weak writing and bad writings happen

Due to various reasons (incompetence, time constraints, etc.), plot holes, weak writings and bad writings do happen, and it certainly happened in FFVII OG. My take on it is just to accept it and get on with the game.

One example of weak writing in FFVII plot is when Rufus wanted to borrow Cid's Tiny Bronco. Why the hell did the President of a big corporate want to borrow a small plane from a "retired" pilot? Logically, even if he was strained far away from a Shinra base, getting a plane to him should only be a matter of hours. My guess is that maybe he just happened to be in the area, and just wanted to get shit done as quick as possible. Still, that part is certainly not well-written.

My point is that, when it comes to the love triangle debate (and other debates), some people tend to over analyze the details. But overanalyzing a detail only works if that said detail is NOT a plot hole or bad writing. Heck, they even try to analyze the postures and facial expressions of the polygons in the game :))))))

Now, as far as I know, some of those over-analysis is true to some extend (but their values are just like icing on the cake, and not being the cake itself). Some others are just the fan reading too much into it. There certainly are nuances presented in the game, but I'm pretty sure you don't have to use a microscope to see it. The nuances are there to make things MORE detailed and exciting, NOT to establish or change the whole narrative.

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Phew that's long. I hope I present myself clear enough as to how I would like to discuss the points and events in FFVII OG. Now, let's dive into the discussions itself.