#Theseus and Tina’s relationship could even end up being the most entertaining relationship in the series to watch

[freedomforthewin]

I think Theseus and Tina’s relationship (any kind of relationship, romantic or non-romantic) would be very fun to watch. 😊 I feel like their relationship would be quite playful and that they’d tease each other. 😄 They would challenge each other, too.

[funkzpiel]

so what are your thoughts of FB2 after reading the screenplay?? i'm curious!!

Ooooh goodness – the short version of it is that I feel that the writing was messy and lazy, and that the characterizations and development was either non-existent or didn’t make sense most of the time. All in all, a hot mess that I found little to no entertainment out of – though it’s worth saying that I am sure the acting, music and visual effects of the actual movie would likely help at least make the story somewhat enjoyable.

For the long, savage version, look below the cut:

Honestly, where to fucking start…

NEWT SCAMANDER 

Personally I thought Newt Scamander was incredibly out of character. Now I say this from a motivational stand point rather than acting, because I adore Eddie and I’m sure that if nothing else, he probably did a phenomenal job. However, I’m still hella caught on the following:

Newt won’t go to Paris for Credence. When the Ministry of Magic meets with him and basically tells him “Either you work for us or we’re going to send this lunatic to go kill him”, I honestly can’t believe that Newt said no. Now I get that he said no because he obviously doesn’t want to kill Credence, but you cannot convince me that Newt wouldn’t have a.) seen the opportunity to have his travel visa back and b.) seen the opportunity to use his position to safely fake Credence’s death or something and help him disappear. This is the boy he tried to save, who he thought dead, who “died” of the same thing that left him obviously emotionally traumatized in the first film after he couldn’t help save the girl in Sudan. And JK wants me to believe he was like naw, I’m cool, that guy can go kill him, peace. NO.

Newt won’t go to Paris for Dumbledore. Less of a stretch, considering what he could lose: his life, his freedom, the safety of his beasts. In fact, this makes sense. What pisses me off about this is that he said no to Dumbledore, but he instead GOES TO PARIS TO BONE TINA. So now, onto my third point…

NEWT FINALLY DECIDES TO RISK HIS FREEDOM AND THE SAFETY OF HIS FUCKING BEASTS, WHO WOULD UNDOUBTEDLY SUFFER IF THEY WERE CONFISCATED BY THE MINISTRY, JUST SO THAT HE COULD SEE TINA, WHICH WHEN HE SEES HER, HE IS THEN MYSTIFIED ABOUT WHY SHE’S UPSET EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW HE INSULTED HER IN A LETTER AND QUEENIE TOLD HIM THAT SHE HAD READ A TABLOID – WHICH DON’T GET ME STARTED ON THE FACT THAT TINA, CLEVER TINA, FELL FOR A FUCKING TABLOID AND THEN NEVER EVEN BOTHERED TO LIKE CLARIFY WITH NEWT – AND ALL OF THIS ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPT TAKES PLACE A YEAR AFTER THE EVENTS IN THE FIRST FILM. DURING THIS TIME THEY’VE WRITTEN LETTERS BUT NOT DATED, SO THIS MAN IS SOMEHOW SO FUCKING HUNG UP ON HER HE’D RISK HIS LIFE AND HIS CREATURES TO THEN BARELY DO ANYTHING TO RECTIFY ANYTHING WHEN HE FINALLY FOUND HER. HE COULD HAVE DONE THAT AT ANY POINT MIND YOU. IF THAT’S HIS FUCKING MOTIVATION, HE COULD HAVE JUST BROKE THE LAW WHENEVER TO SEE HER. OR YOU KNOW, TALK VIA FIRE. LETTERS. GOD ANY FUCKING COMMUNICATION THAT DOESN’T LEAD TO DEATH. NOT TO MENTION THAT ‘MISCOMMUNICATION’ IS THE SLOPPIEST MOTIVATION FOR STORYTELLING, DEAR GOD. BUT NO – HE DIDN’T GO TO PARIS FOR CREDENCE. HE DIDN’T RISK HIS LIFE FOR ANY SIGNIFICANT REASON. HE WENT SO HE COULD BONE TINA. AND TELL HER THAT SHE HAD FUCKING SALAMANDER EYES.

Further more with the mischaracterization of Newt, in the script the Zouwu was described to have burst from a box that was on fire, incredibly malnourish, scarred and abused. You want me to believe that a.) an abused animal would have fucking done a 180 on the terrified scale for a fucking bird toy and b.) NEWT WOULDN’T HAVE REACTED AT ALL TO THE FACT THAT THIS WAS AN ABUSED ANIMAL THAT NEEDED CAREFUL HANDLING?! Qed pointed out that the neglect wasn’t obvious in the film, so I’ll give it that – but this is the way it’s written and it’s so fucking sloppy. Like the scene when he saves this cat could have been amazing. It could have showcased that Newt does something truly special and unique. Could have shown us HOW he calms beasts rather than turned it into comedic relief (which would have been fine if it wasn’t an abuse case), AND it could have been a moment for Tina to be reminded of why she is attracted to Newt instead of us being forced to believe these two stupid assholes have been pining for no real reason for each other for a year. NOT TO MENTION that this could have then led into an actual motivation for Newt to fight or be involved in Paris because you can’t tell me that Newt fucking Scamander wouldn’t want to find the asshole who abused that cat, save any other involved creatures and kill that man.

Also he trained the Niffler. His motto in the first film is that he doesn’t keep his creatures. Now at Zoos there’s a level of training wild animals to safely get them here and there, and interact with them. Newt trained the Niffler extensively. That isn’t the behavior of a man rehabilitating an animal for the wild. 

And then there’s the scene with Theseus chasing down Newt and Tina and they’re mad that he’s chasing them? And say he’s over reacting? OK BUT HAVE YOU TOLD HIM ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU’RE DOING?! NO. All he knows is that his brother just broke the fucking law on a critical degree and to make matters more stinging, is using his own fucking face to do it. The scene is written so you’re rooting for Tina and Newt (specifically Newt) and if it weren’t for the fact that Newt is only there to bone Tina, maybe I would, but damn if I wasn’t livid and rooting for Theseus tbh.

QUEENIE GOLDSTEIN

What. The ever living fuck. Did she do. To. Queenie. This film had a prime opportunity to continue on the foundation of the first film and really build Queenie into something great. In the first film we see Queenie as a young woman who doesn’t think much of herself. She kind of infers that she knows she’s really only useful for looking pretty and fetching coffee when she tells Newt and Jacob that “Teenie’s the working gal”. But by the end of the film, Queenie has saved the gang once or twice, managed to bust through the security of the office of the Director of Magical Security, thought quick on her feet, leveraged people and in general just be a subtle badass. And she learned to love and to let go – and then when to fight for what she believes in when she came back for Jacob.

But the second film has turned her identity into “I NEED TO BE MARRIED”. That’s not a healthy relationship for one. She and Jacob have talked about this. Jacob never said they needed to split. But he did say he was afraid of pursuing marriage for her safety – for both their safety, honestly – because what fucking good is a fucking piece of paper that honestly means nothing but “says” they’re married if they’re fucking dead? But what did Queenie do? SHE USED MAGIC TO MAKE HIM ACT AGAINST HIS WILL. That’s just – I can’t even begin to talk about the level of fucked up that. And god, how disparaging to that character too, Queenie is so much more than that! She could be so much more than that! Instead she’s made to look crazy. She could have gone into politics to fight for Muggle/Wizard relationships – but no. Honestly there’s so many more interesting avenues to explore with this character. Or if you wanted to send her to Grindelwald, more interesting ways to do it! Maybe Grindelwald is the only one (in her mind) who knows how to undo an obliviation because it’s in fact dark magic to manipulate the mind on the level it would take to undo it! Maybe she’s in Paris trying to figure that out and Grindelwald lies and says he knows how to do it. I’d be more interested in Queenie working to restore Jacob rather than control him. And she’s obsessed! Her entire character has been so heavily warped into “I WANT TO BE MARRIED” that she disregards all the fucking destruction she first hand knows Grindelwald has done and in the script is literally says that “she is his, heart and soul”. THAT LEVEL OF DEDICATION. For no more that a fucking fluttering second of “Muggles are basically live stock, but I know some of you love them, we don’t have to kill them all.” SHE JUST IGNORES LIKE ALL THE REST OF IT. I just… she’s such a fucking hollow, messy sham of a character and it’s truly sad, because she could have been perfect example of “woman who thought she was only what society told her she was – pretty, someone who needed to get married, etc. – and realized she’s so much more than that. She’s a PERSON. Someone who is powerful and can truly make a difference. And that she can love, but she can also be QUEENIE GOLDSTEIN who happens to be in love rather than QUEENIE GOLDSTEIN WHO IS ONLY AS GOOD AS WHO SHE LOVES AND IF SHE MARRIES THEM.

TINA GOLDSTEIN

Tina doesn’t act angry around Newt at all in the beginning. She’s described to be walking with an “inner sadness” (because bright, clever AUROR TRAINED Tina fell for a tabloid). And yet half way through the film we find out she and Newt had a falling out via letter. And she only at that moment reacts to it. I want Tina giving Newt the cold fucking shoulder about that. Not to mention that the whole “you’re engaged” thing is stupid and shouldn’t even be included because literally all she needed to do was investigate a little or send a letter with the article included like “Congrats!” and he’d be like “Oh, no, I’m the best man, papers are dumb”. Give me Tina who’s actually upset about what Newt said about Aurors. Give me a Tina who slowly warms back up to Newt. Give me a relationship that makes sense and actually needs work and repair and communication damn it.

JACOB

They fucking reduced him to one motivation: “When can I eat next?” I cannot tell you how many times he’s literally used as comedic relief as the “fat guy” and just blurts out “I’m looking for food” in any tense or awkward situation. He is a war vet. He is a man in love with a society forbidden to his kind. He is potentially in the middle of a war and he sees visions of a war to come. He is more than his weight or his appetite. He also should be a little more savvy at this point. And he just magically remembers because he only had good memories??? Fine, but weak as fuck.

GELLERT GRINDELWALD

JK wants me to believe that the man who couldn’t dodge a fucking glorified stick-hand-throw-toy creature was able to apparate onto a moving vehicle in bad weather above water. A magical move that is supposed to be hard even on stable, non-moving terrain. A magical move that can splinch and maim. HE COULDN’T DODGE NEWT, BUT HE CAN APPARATE ONTO A MOVING, UNSTEADY VEHICLE AT NIGHT. He’s supposed to be powerful – fuck yeah, I’m onboard – but damn, you certainly didn’t MAKE HIM POWERFUL IN THE FIRST FILM WHEN HE WASN’T BEING TORTURED FOR A YEAR BY MACUSA. I would have been more impressed and more keen to believe him escaping from inside the carriage that doing that OP move. The fight scene in 1 is so anti-climatic and here he is at the top of 2, exhausted hobo-mage doing an epic, unbelievably unrealistic fight scene.

Also fuck Abernathy. Fucking why. Blah. 

And then he throws that gremlin thing out the window. For no reason. What, to show us he’s cruel even though they’re building a morally grey narrative for him? Certainly doesn’t help endear me to him when the whole point of the film is he is charismatic and endearing and able to convince people that the world is grey and that the forces of good are not actually good for the people at all. Of which – so heavy handed about abuse of power. They cut his TONGUE out. Lovely. “AMERICA IS FULL OF BARBARIANS”, cool thanks got it. They have like magic to silence him, but they cut out his tongue. Wizards don’t believe in punching, but they cut out his tongue.

“He’s the hero of his own story, he’s morally grey, he’s doing it for the greater good, he’s charismatic and charming!”

Grindelwald: kills a family for their home, including their child (who honestly, based off his dialogue, I thought he was going to enslave and then he killed him. Has a whole bit about how they’re livestock and don’t need to all die, and then he kills all of them).

“He’s charismatic and easy to follow and has a point I swear!”

He just… He’s so boring. He could have been so interesting, so layered, and instead he’s contradictory and nonsensical and honestly I didn’t find him charismatic either – like what the fuck, I wanted so much more.

ALBUS DUMBLEDORE

Actually he’s precisely the dick I expected based off the books. So not much to say about him, tbh, I think he was nailed down right. He’s manipulative to a disgusting degree and it shows. I’ve always had a love, hate relationship with Dumbledore and that definitely continued in this – so I don’t have much to say about him here. He was well done.

CREDENCE

What. The. Fuck. Now here’s what I’m pissed about with Credence. When we first see him, he’s basically BUSTING OUT OF PRISON (the Carnival). AWESOME. I AM ON BOARD. Where the fuck is this character development?! It feels like we were flung into the ending of another fucking movie. I’m so proud of him for stepping up, for making a relationship with another person, and for fighting for his safety and to escape. But JESUS YOU NEED TO SHOW ME HOW WE WENT FROM THE SNIVELING, TERRIFIED BOY WHO COULDN’T CONTROL HIMSELF TO THE HARD YOUNG MAN WHO FUCKING BROKE HIMSELF AND ANOTHER PERSON OUT OF A BAD, ABUSIVE SITUATION. How the fuck did he even get there? How did he and Nagini build a relationship so strong that once free she FOLLOWED HIM?! Like this is a powerful result of character building that we NEVER SEE FOR NO FUCKING REASON.

Also you expect me to believe that he – without once fucking bringing it up – fucking trusts and believes and willingly goes with Grindelwald? The man who stole another man’s identity, led him on a ruse, manipulated his emotions and then BURNED THAT RELATIONSHIP TO THE GROUND?! I get that he has information, but in my mind I think Credence could’ve have focused on a lot of different avenues before he ever came close to willingly going to Grindelwald. If Grindelwald were like snuffing multiple attempts at information at every turn (rather than just one attempt) - sure. But like… this man… AFTER EVERYTHING HE DID… I need MORE to make me believe Credence would have gone with him. God, I would have believed Credence fighting and pursuing him to find Mr. Graves. OR Grindelwald using Rossier to provide information through a face Credence could ‘trust’ and reveal at the end it was him all along. Perhaps Rossier gives him the information and then says, “I know someone who can help you avenge the life that was stolen from you. I know someone who can help you change the world, Credence. No more abuse. No more looked over children. No more pain. He’s speaking tonight in the cemetery. You should come with me.” And Credence goes and it’s Grindelwald – and his speech is a balm he didn’t know he needed, and finally he draws Credence up and says, “Look how I’ve paved the way for you, the lengths I’ve gone to, all for you. I want to rectify my mistakes, Credence. I want to help you. Let me help you.” There were just MORE BELIEVABLE WAYS, JESUS.

LETA 

…why the fuck did she walk into the fire? I know why she did, but on a writing stand point it was just to make the scene flashy, tbh. There were other fucking options. I just fucking can’t. I will say, I like the development in Leta. I like seeing the beast of burden on her shoulders. She still felt a bit hollow and like… unnecessary, tbh, and I hate that her and Theseus being together was only for drama that never gets talked about or fucking resolved. I feel a lot was missing for her – and for her relationships. Honestly I don’t care for her or Credence being involved. I’d much rather see Newt, Tina and the gang struggling to figure out how to battle discontent, fear and propaganda. This feels needlessly convoluted on an M.Night scale. She’s just there (narratively) to hurt Newt and Theseus. She didn’t have her own purpose for existence. 

PLOT HOLES

Film 1: NOTHING CAN SAVE A CHILD WITH AN OBSCURUS.

Film 2: THE LOVE OF A SIBLING CAN SAVE CREDENCE, PROBABLY, EVEN THOUGH HE’S HONESTLY DOING JUST FINE.

What a clean, one dialogue line fix to what was a HUGE PROBLEM in the last film across not only Credence’s timeline, but Newt’s with the girl from Sudan.

THE MINISTRY OF MAGIC IN FRANCE IS CALLED THE FRENCH MINISTRY OF MAGIC, WHAT THE FUCK. Like the FRENCH WOMAN who was working reception called it that. They don’t have their own unique name for their government. They were like “oh, guess we’ll just be the French version of the Ministry of Magic.” I’d get it if she’d been like, hello, welcome to [enter very beautiful french name here] and tina was like “what now?” and the woman rolled her eyes and said, “The French Ministry of Magic” like ‘let me spell it out for you, jesus’. But no. THEY MULTIPLE TIMES JUST REFER TO IT THAT WAY. I will never believe it wouldn’t have it’s own unique name. What the fuck. Like MACUSA isn’t the “American Ministry of Magic”.

Harry Potter Books: THE KILLING CURSE IS A POWERFUL, DARK AND ILLEGAL THING. YOU HAVE TO WANT TO KILL. IT’S SIGNIFICANT AND RARE.

Fantastic Beasts 2: Killing Curses everywhere. Just willy knilly. Everyone, even Aurors, casting killing curses. 

Queenie stuck at Grindelwald’s hideout because Rossier wants her to meet Grindelwald is quickly followed by Grindelwald basically saying “Join me” and then “You’re an innocent, leave this place.” The whole thing makes no damn sense, but cool, cool.

Also can we talk about JK just fucking regurgitating themes like a broken fucking record? TWO FATED BABIES, BOTH WHO END UP ORPHANS (well in this case one died) but like, TRAGIC SONS. Young boy who is abused in his foster care system but is SPECIAL ™. YER A WIZARD, CREDENCE. A FATED, TRAGIC BOY AND YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN KILL X PERSON. 

It’s just a hot fucking sloppy mess of a story on a writing perspective, and I expected more.

[mercurial-tenacity]

Crimes of Grindelwald Thoughts

Non-spoiler summary version:

Overall I enjoyed it and found it entertaining.  My main complaint is that there was SO MUCH going on that no one arc or story actually got much depth, I feel like any one subplot could have carried a movie in its own right just from the amount of content.  We had a lot of interesting characters, but not much opportunity to get to know them organically, or to catch up with the original cast.

With that said, spoilery thoughts below the cut:

I feel like a lot happened in the months leading up to this movie that we didn’t get to see, which would have helped a lot in making the story more natural.  Queenie and Jacob for instance - Queenie was in a state in this movie, and I wish we could have seen the lead up to that.  Putting a spell of Jacob seems like it should have been the climax of a story about her life in New York, what she endured trying to make their relationship work, how she was torn between familial and romantic love, the stress building and building - maybe even a close call with the law which Tina had to get her out of?  Which led to their argument and Tina leaving for an assignment in France - until she felt like they had escape and didn’t have any other choice.  Instead it was the first plot point we got with them and we learned about it through a brief argument in the street.  I find Queenie’s choice to join Grindelwald really intriguing and not unrealistic, but a lot would have been added if we’d seen the real build up.  She seemed, well, seriously off balance from the start and I want to know why.

I loved Newt’s apartmentzoo.  It makes sense that he’d have a more permanent place to house his creatures and just take the ones who needed the most personal care while travelling, and though Bunty, yeah, didn’t have much to do at all, it personally puts my mind at rest to know someone else is there to look after the creatures when Newt is indisposed for whatever reason.  Like seriously, I worry about this in just about every fic I write.

I liked Newt and Theseus’ relationship, where they clearly cared about each other but had different priorities and worldviews which makes their interactions difficult.  Neither of them came off seeming unreasonable, just caught in different situations.  And Newt hugging Theseus at the end, even though it was pretty clear Newt isn’t fond of hugs - I loved it.  He sees what Theseus needs in that moment and meets him at that level, the same way he does with the creatures.  I have to say though, that while Theseus’ actor did a fine job, he seriously does look younger than Newt to me and it threw me off.  I definitely still prefer fanon Theseus in that respect.

Theseus and Leta’s relationship was… meh.  Newt didn’t seem all that affected by it, Theseus and Leta themselves didn’t interact all that differently that close colleagues would have, it seems like it was there purely so Tina could get confused about the newspaper clipping.  Which, yes, Newt and Tina not talking was annoying.  We all know it’s annoying.  Moving on.

Leta herself was wonderful.  I feel like she actually got the most character depth with seeing her time at school, the events on the ship, her reactions to being back at Hogwarts… we could actually see how events and choices shaped her as she grew up and how she became the adult woman she was.  There’s a ton to dig into there.  (I’m still confused about how she ended up planning to marry Theseus, but.)

Speaking of what happened on the ship - that’s… that’s some heavy stuff.  ...Even if it didn’t all quite make sense, Why was Leta sent to America too?  Her father didn’t love her, so was she also supposed to be adopted?  But clearly she wasn’t.  Who sends a young child on a transatlantic trip for the hell of it?  Was it because her nanny was going and they couldn’t find anyone else to take care of her?  Also, why did she decide that while the ship was sinking was the best time to wander over and pick up another baby if she really didn’t intend to switch them?  Present-day Leta seemed pretty adamant about that, and while I fully believe she didn’t intend for Corvus to die the scene makes a lot more sense to me from the lens of little-Leta actually intending to switch the babies even if she wasn’t sure about going through with it before she was pulled away.  And I have to assume they decided to take advantage of the shipwreck and say Corvus didn’t survive (even though the nanny thought he had) for extra protection?  Because Yousuf seemed pretty certain Corvus didn’t make it, as in, it sounded like there were official records listing him as a casualty.

And why, why in the hell, if Corvus’ father actually loved him, did he end up with Mary-Lou Barebone?  Even if they didn’t know she was abusive, she made it pretty damn clear she hated magic, so knowingly handing her a magical child seems like a huge fucking mistake.  Was Credence just given to an American adoption agency and the Lestranges didn’t actually know where he ended up?  Wouldn’t someone with the power and influence of Lestrange Sr. make sure his beloved son ended up somewhere he’d be loved and taken care of?  Maybe he did, but something happened to that family too and then Credence ended up with Mary-Lou?  I feel like the events between “lifeboat” and “adopted” are still a mystery.

Yousuf, though - I don’t quite know how I feel about his revenge mission, but I did like that when push came to shove he was right there alongside the rest of the characters in going wait, no, killing everybody in this room is not okay and neither is destroying Paris.  I feel like his story wasn’t as tightly put together as it could have been, but I’m intrigued.

Also, why couldn’t Queenie find Tina at the Ministry?  Was her presence in France classified, or…?  Literally nothing else suggests she wasn’t there on an official mission, she was prepared to go to the ministry as soon as she had information, the newspaper clipping Newt had stated she was still an auror, she didn’t act like anything was wrong…?  But then also, why couldn’t she just go and say, “I’m from MACUSA and we need to see the records for the Lestrange family?”  Idk.

Credence and Nagini, I feel similarly to how I do about Queenie and Jacob in that we could have used more build up to their situation.  Credence presumably works at the circus as an entry point into the magical world…?  Nagini is clearly treated badly, but how did they bond to the point where they escape together and stay together afterwards?  And as others have said, Nagini really wasn’t given much to do.  I hope we see more of her in future movies where she actually gets some development, because as it was she mostly seemed to be there so Credence had someone to talk to.  Credence… also didn’t seem to have much to do, weirdly?  His quest to find who he is was absolutely believable, but for being essentially the center point of the movie that everyone else was looking for it didn’t seem like we got much else from him.  I would have liked to see more of him pulling himself together after the subway battle, being alone and “free,” as it were, for the first time, discovering his powers and learning to control (or not, that wasn’t clear to me) the obscurus, learning about the magical world and trying to find his place in a culture he knows he belongs in but is completely foreign to.  How he survived was also pretty thoroughly glossed over, as was how so many people knew he survived.  Kinda like, there wasn’t actually much point to it seeming like he didn’t survive at the end of the last movie.

And Grindelwald - I’m not sure how I feel about Grindelwald yet.  On the one hand, I can’t wait to start writing fic with him being the gloriously manipulative bastard he is, but on the other hand, I didn’t feel like the writing or performance in the movie brought all that much depth or newness to him?  (Also, side note, for a movie called “The Crimes of Grindelwald,” Grindelwald himself committed surprisingly few crimes.  I suppose it could have been in reference to “answering for his crimes in Europe,” but that clearly didn’t happen either.)  He wasn’t exactly disappointing, but I’ve seen fanon portrayals that brought a lot more depth, charisma, and danger to him. So I remain undecided, but definitely look forward to seeing more fandom content for him.

Dumbledore was fun to see, but I don’t have strong feelings about him.  His characterization felt consistent with how we see him in HP, but he didn’t have much to do other than be vague and give warnings people, for the most part, didn’t listen to.  Hopefully we see more of him in future movies and he gets more exploration.

And yes, I would have liked to see Percival Graves.  Other people have dug into it already, but I’ll always be confused why a key government figure is never mentioned by anyone in the government, and I definitely feel like it would have fit for him to be looking for Credence just like everyone else was.

Overall the movie had good parts and not so good parts, but as a writer my main criteria for evaluation is “does this movie give me more to write about,” and it does.  So overall, it comes out on the positive side for me.

If you made it through all 1600 words then thanks for listening to my ramblings, and I’m definitely up for discussing!  I want to hear your thoughts!