Writing In The Fred Astaire Style
Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire were both incredible dancers, yet with diametrically opposed styles.
Kelly always wanted to make sure you knew how hard he was working and that you appreciated how hard he was working.
Astaire, on the other hand, made it look natural.
Smooth.
Effortless.
Writing is like that.
Some writers want you to see how hard they’re working at their craft.
Others just want the story to flow naturally, smoothly, effortlessly even though the amount of craftsmanship is just as high -- in fact, perhaps even higher, since part of the skill lays in how well it’s hidden from view.
A prime example of Fred Astaire style storytelling is in one of my all time favorite movies and, depending on how I’m feeling at that particular moment, arguably my favorite or second favorite Western, Rio Bravo (written by Jules Furthman and Leigh Brackett off of a short story by B. H. McCampbell, directed by Howard Hawks).
Rio Bravo frequently gets dismissed when people evaluate classic Westerns because it contains no obvious Big Important Themes such as those found in The Searchers or High Noon or The Ox Bow Incident.
All of which, in my way of thinking, are Gene Kelly style examples of storytelling.
The beauty and joy of Rio Bravo is how naturally, smoothly, effortlessly it unfolds, how deceptively simple it seems.
Simple? Ha!
The moment you pop the lid on this baby you realize it’s as intricate as a Swiss watch.
Let’s analyze one of the most important scenes in the film, a relatively low key moment not nearly as entertaining or as exciting as the rest of the picture, but absolutely crucial in setting up much of what will come in the story.
And not just by the plot threads it introduces but how those plot threads will interact with other plot threads.
[I’m drastically streamlining the story here in order to get quickly to the key scene, which is the fourth scene in the final edited film. The movie follows the plot of the final draft screenplay very closely, though it’s clear they were fiddling with the dialog during production and eliminated several redundant scenes or lines in the final cut.]
Scene 1 / credits: A freight wagon train approaches the town of Rio Bravo
Scene 2: Sheriff Chance (John Wayne) and Dude (Dean Martin) arrest sadistic bully Joe Burdette (Claude Akins) for murder.
Scene 3: Pat Wheeler (Ward Bond) and Colorado (Ricky Nelson) lead the freight wagons into Rio Bravo. They’re stopped at the edge of town by Dude, whom Wheeler only knows as the town drunk.
Scene 4: Wheeler, Colorado, and the wagon train are stopped again near the jail by Sheriff Chance.
WHEELER:
Chance, what's going on here?
People stopping me. Everybody
telling me what I can and can't do.
Next thing, you'll be telling me what to do.
CHANCE:
Pat, I will tell you.
WHEELER:
What?
CHANCE:
Stop your wagons.
WHEELER:
I give up.
[signals wagons to stop]
Now don't tell me what's going on.
Just leave me wandering around
in the fog. I like it. I'm getting used
to it. It makes me feel so good.
CHANCE:
You better look out, Pat,
you'll blow up and bust.
WHEELER:
Listen, Chance, remember me?
Your old friend Pat Wheeler.
Now, will you please--
Dude rides up.
DUDE:
Hey, Chance! What do you want
to do about this outfit? Do you
want to take their guns?
CHANCE:
Got any new men with you, Pat?
WHEELER:
No, nobody except Colorado here.
CHANCE:
Where'd you take him on?
WHEELER:
Fort Worth.
CHANCE:
What does he do?
COLORADO:
I speak English, Sheriff...if you want to ask me.
CHANCE:
All right, buster, what do you do?
COLORADO:
I'm riding guard.
CHANCE:
Pretty young for that, aren't you?
COLORADO:
Just how old do you have to be, Sheriff?
WHEELER:
You remember Ryan from
Denver, don't you?
CHANCE:
Rocky Ryan?
WHEELER:
That's his boy. He tells me
the kid's faster than he was.
CHANCE:
He better be, packing a pair of guns.
COLORADO:
Now, Sheriff, if it's the two guns that
bother you, I could give you one of them.
I could let you have them both. They
wouldn't do me too much good. That
fellow in the door there has a shotgun on me.
Chance turns to see Stumpy (Walter Brennan) aiming a shotgun through the barred security window on the jail door.
CHANCE:
Stumpy, didn't I tell--
STUMPY:
I know. I'm going. I'm going.
CHANCE:
You can keep your guns, Colorado.
COLORADO:
Thanks, Sheriff. I don't want any trouble.
CHANCE:
Well, then don't start any.
COLORADO:
I won't, unless I tell you first.
CHANCE:
That's good enough. Pat, you can put
your wagons in that corral.
WHEELER:
I ought to do just that.
CHANCE:
What?
WHEELER:
I'm just guessing, you understand.
It seems to me that you've already
got some trouble here.
CHANCE:
You're guessing right.
WHEELER:
It so happens that part of our load there
is fuel oil and dynamite. Would you like
to have that sitting next to you?
CHANCE:
No, I wouldn't.
DUDE:
They could put them over there by the creek.
Near the Burdette warehouse. If it's going
to blow that's just as good a place as any.
CHANCE:
Show them the way, Dude.
You can go along, Colorado.
COLORADO:
Is that the way you want it, Mr. Wheeler?
WHEELER:
Go ahead.
Dude leads Colorado and the wagon train to the creek.
CHANCE:
Let's get out of the middle of the street.
WHEELER:
Now that you're satisfied and that the kid's
got his guns...would you mind telling me
what this is all about?
CHANCE:
We've got Joe Burdette in here.
WHEELER:
Joe Burdette in jail? Nathan's brother?
CHANCE:
That's right.
WHEELER:
What are you holding him for?
CHANCE:
They were about to bury the reason
when you were coming in.
WHEELER:
Murder?
CHANCE:
No other word for it.
WHEELER:
No wonder this town's in such a mess.
What does Nathan say about this?
CHANCE:
Nothing. He's not talking. Just doing.
You saw part of it. He's got this town
so bottled up that I can't get Joe out
or any help in. There are men over there
watching us. They're his. I can't make
a move without him knowing it.
WHEELER:
Who you got helping you?
CHANCE:
You met half of them.
WHEELER:
You mean that fellow with the badge
that stopped me, and who else?
CHANCE:
Stumpy. You know him. He's
watching Joe and guarding the jail.
WHEELER:
A game-legged old man and
a drunk. That's all you got?
CHANCE:
That's what I got.
WHEELER:
If I ever saw a man holding the bull
by the tail, you're it. It's a good idea
putting my wagons where they're safe.
Guess I better see they did it.
CHANCE:
I'll see you later.
Let’s break down what this scene does:
In a very naturalistic manner, it introduces a character who (a) logically doesn’t know what is going on and (b) logically needs to know what is going on so our protagonist can deliver a lot of necessary expository material without it sounding like a bald faced info dump.
It tells us what the stakes are: A lone sheriff and two woefully deficient deputies up against a rich and powerful foe determined to thwart justice by rescuing his brother with the help of a gang of hired guns.
It introduces three very important characters who will be absolutely necessary in the resolution of the story: Wheeler, who will get killed because of his friendship to the sheriff, and as a result provide both an opportunity for Dude to redeem himself as well as the impetus for Colorado to insert himself into the fray over the objections of Chance; Colorado, who is shown to be a cocky smart ass yet recognized and respected by Chance based on how coolly he reacted when he realized Stumpy had a gun on him; and Stumpy, whom we’ll soon learn has his own motives against the Burdette brothers that will prove vitally important at the climax when ///he/// shows up over Chance’s objections.
Look also at Colorado’s line: “I won't [start any trouble], unless I tell you first.” That’s a set-up that pays off when a new character and sub-plot, Feathers the gambler (Angie Dickenson) blows into town. Chance has reason to suspect her of cheating at cards and confronts her on it, but Colorado interrupts them by revealing he’s spotted the actual card cheat and is letting the sheriff know before he accuses the tinhorn; this puts Chance in the position of having to apologize to Feathers for suspecting her without cause, and that leads to a burgeoning relationship that further leads to Feathers saving Chance’s life by providing a distraction that lets Colorado shoot two of Burdette’s men who have the drop on the sheriff (which in turn results in Colorado being deputized).
Oh, and there’s one last crucial element this scene supplies…
There are few greater sins in writing than the deus ex machine -- the “god in a machine” -- who swoops down without preamble at the last second to save the protagonists.
The deus ex machine is the writer forcing themselves into the story, making it work the way they want it to work instead of letting it flow naturally, smoothly, effortlessly.
And at the climax of Rio Bravo -- when Chance and Dude and Colorado are pinned down by murderous fire from Burdette’s warehouse, hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned and about to be outflanked by Burdette’s men -- what flows more naturally, more smoothly, more effortlessly than for Stumpy to show up with a case of dynamite he took from Wheeler’s nearby freight wagons, determined to see both Burdettes pay for their crimes?
That’s a lot of dramatic weight in one simple little scene, and until the end credits roll you never know it’s there.
© Buzz Dixon
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Jorge Miroslav Jara Salas: Shipping Wine Across Provincial Borders with Dan Paszkowski, Canadian Vintners Association
Our guest this evening is the President and Chief Executive Officer of the Canadian Vintners Association (CVA), the national association of the Canadian wine industry representing wineries across Canada, responsible for more than 90% of annual wine production. He represents Canada’s national wine industry on all federal policy issues.
And he joins me live now from his home in Ottawa: Welcome to the Sunday Sipper Club Dan Paszkowski!
Click on the “Follow” and “Like” buttons on this Facebook page to get notified when we go live.
Click on the arrow above to hear Dan’s story.
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You can also click on “Follow” and “Like” buttons to know when we make updates.
Watch previous episodes of the Sunday Sipper Club (SSC) and to find out who’s coming up next.
Tell us the story of what sparked your own interest in wine? Where were you? How old were you? What happened? What were you feeling?
Mission Hill Family Estate vineyard: Syrah grapes along Black Sage Road. Osoyoos, BC
Then later on, how did you start working with the CVA?
What is the CVA?
Give us some quick stats about the Canadian wine industry please:
How many wineries are there?
How many hectares of vineyards?
Annual sales?
How fast is it growing?
Does Ontario produce 80% of the wine?
How much does the Canadian wine industry contribute to Canada’s economy? $9 billion. How is that calculated?
For every dollar spent on Canadian wine in Canada, what’s the impact on the economy?
For every $1.00 spent on Canadian wine in Canada, $3.42 in Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is generated across the country.
How many Canadians are employed in the wine industry? 37,000
What are the most critical issues right now facing the Canadian wine industry?
Why is this so critical to the industry, and to us as wine lovers? (This is a big question so let’s break it up so we don’t get a long monologue please
Provincial Territorial Ministers during a conference in Niagara were buying cases of wine to bring home; or CALJ representatives at a meeting in Kelowna were buying more wine than they could consume in their hotel rooms. In both cases they knew that it was illegal to transport wine home.
A winery is legally allowed to deliver wine to a customer in Texas but has to refuse a customer visiting from New Brunswick.
Sandra Oldfield, previously of Tinhorn Creek. ordering a gun from another province, to make the point that it’s easier to order a firearm than a bottle of wine.
Liquor Board reaction in 2012 after Bill 311 was passed, implemented personal exemptions to suggest they did not disallow direct delivery. In 2018, Premiers suggest the answer is to double the limit …. unless you live in a border community, this is of no value. If you live in Kitchener you have to travel 1200 km to MN or 550 to QC to buy two Cases of wine.
Canada is the only wine producing country that doesn’t allow consumers to order wine for direct delivery to their home from any Canadian winery located in any province .
Do you think it makes sense that Canadian wine lovers can’t access their favourite Canadian wines directly from the winery?
Enjoying Canadian wines directly from the winery should be your choice, yet these regulations make it illegal for you to do that.
What do Canadians themselves think about this issue?
88% of Canadians believe that Canada’s agricultural and wine industries will benefit if there are more ways in which local wine can be purchased.
94% of Canadians support a constitutional right to ship legally-purchased wine between provinces.
What’s the impact on the wine industry from these regulations? How much would the industry grow if there were no provincial boundaries?
Are we talking about shipping just Canadian wines across the country, or all wine eventually; say if I want to buy a Tuscan wine from an Alberta liquor store and I live in Ontario?
These regulations restrict the growth of thriving wine industries in B.C., Ontario, Quebec and Nova Scotia and also up-and-coming grape growing regions in other parts of Canada.
What can we, as Canadians, do to help?
You have the power to change these laws. Let’s get it done together. Contact your local politician today by filling out the simple form where?
Now looking at international trade, what are your concerns about selling Canadian wine to the United States, especially with NAFTA under negotiation?
What are your views on cellared in Canada wines that are not made from 100% Canadian wine?
What other issues face the Canadian wine industry?
What are the major new trends in the Canadian wine industry, aside from growth in the number of wineries, diversity of wines made and overall better quality?
Do Canadian consumers as a whole recognize the quality of Canadian wine, or is their perception still dated?
What does the Canadian wine industry need to do now that it’s not doing, to ensure its success in the future?
Describe the downright weirdest Canadian wine pairing you’ve ever had?
Do you think it makes sense that Canadian wine lovers can’t access their favourite Canadian wines directly from the winery?
Enjoying Canadian wines directly from the winery should be your choice, yet these regulations make it illegal for you to do that.
If you think this is ridiculous in this day and age, let your local politician know by emailing them right now!
We believe that Direct-to-Consumer shipment respects your consumer choice, and helps grow the Canadian wine industry – something we can all get behind.
Dan Paszkowski is President and Chief Executive Officer of the Canadian Vintners Association (CVA), the national association of the Canadian wine industry representing wineries across Canada, responsible for more than 90% of annual wine production. Mr. Paszkowski is a member of several professional associations and represents Canada’s national wine industry on all federal policy issues. He co-chairs FIVS Social Responsibility Working Group, 2016-17 Industry Chair of the World Wine Trade Group (WWTG), member of Canada’s National Alcohol Strategy Working Group and National Alcohol Strategy Advisory Committee, member of the Canadian Association of Liquor Jurisdictions (CALJ) Social Responsibility and National Quality Assurance Committees.
Some facts:
The Canadian wine industry contributes $9 billion to Canada’s economy
Over 37,000 Canadians are employed in our industry
88% of Canadians believe that Canada’s agricultural and wine industries will benefit if there are more ways in which local wine can be purchased
94% of Canadians support a constitutional right to ship legally-purchased wine between provinces
These regulations restrict the growth of thriving wine industries in B.C., Ontario, Quebec and Nova Scotia and also up-and-coming grape growing regions in other parts of Canada
You have the power to change these laws. Let’s get it done together. Contact your local politician today by filling out the simple form here
Video 2 Free My Canadian Grapes & Wine: MP Dan Albas
Shipping Canadian Wine Across Borders, Bill C-311 and Free My Grapes
Dan Paszkowski
Wine industry launches campaign to lift restrictions on wine shipments
The Canadian Vintners Association (CVA) and its members have launched a campaign encouraging Canadians to let their elected representatives know that interprovincial trade restrictions on wine are outdated and harm the growth of Canada’s wine industry.
“Canada is the only wine producing country that doesn’t allow consumers to order wine for direct delivery to their home from any Canadian winery located in any province,” said Dan Paszkowski, President & CEO of the CVA. “We call that Direct-to-Consumer shipping and we’re asking Canadians to contact their MPP or MLA and demand that it be permitted.”
The campaign, which features digital advertising and social media content, is timed to coincide with the anticipated release of the Alcoholic Beverages Working Group (ABWG) report. The ABWG, which was
formed as part of the Canadian Free Trade Agreement, is made up of federal, provincial, and territorial officials. It is tasked with making recommendations that will support the trade of alcoholic beverages
within Canada, while being mindful of social responsibility and international obligations. The ABWG will submit its recommendations by July 1st and on the basis of that report, the federal and provincial
governments will determine how trade in alcoholic beverages within Canada can be improved.
“We know that nine out of 10 Canadians believe Direct-to-Consumer shipping should be permitted,” said Paszkowski. “So, we’re asking them to go to Act Now and make their voices heard. The Working Group report is a significant opportunity to make this right and for provinces to make this choice available to their citizens.”
Direct-to-Consumer would lead to important growth for the country’s highest value agricultural industry. Indeed, free interprovincial trade would positively impact the economy across the country. Industry research shows that for every $1.00 spent on Canadian wine in Canada, $3.42 in Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is generated across the country.
The ‘Act Now’ advertising campaign will run in Alberta, Ontario and Quebec for two weeks, and be distributed via CVA members throughout the country.
About the Canadian Vintners Association
Canadian Vintners Association (CVA), the national voice of wine in Canada, advocates for the national wine industry at the federal and international levels. CVA is dedicated to improving the business success and return on investment for individual wineries, while assuring the continued growth and prosperity of the entire Canadian wine industry.
@cvawine
https://ift.tt/2x6dHF2
Canadian Vintners Association | Association des vignerons du Canada
310-440 Laurier Ave West | 440 av Laurier ouest, bureau 310, Ottawa ON, K1R 7X6
https://ift.tt/1vaJ2io | @CVAwine
Full Transcript:
Natalie: 00:01 Talking about some hot-button issues in the Canadian wine
industry, for example, I live in Ottawa and I love this is a
beautiful bc Pinot noir, but you know what, I can’t buy it legally,
at least, you know, calling up the winery of going online and
trying to buy this wine, which is kind of insane. I have to fly out
there to get it. And , that’s one of the issues we’re talking about
tonight. Cross-border shipping of our own wines, , and a lot of
other issues and trends that are facing not only the Canadian
wind industry but us. We as Canadian wine lovers,
Natalie: 02:03 Open. So let me just. So I’m looking at this and we will get going
with our guest intro because it’s going to be a great
conversation tonight. I’ve got the guest to talk to you about all
of these issues, not just cross-border shipping, but many others
as well. All right, so let me give you a brief intro here. , our guest
this evening is the president and chief executive officer of the
Canadian Vintners Association Cva, the National Association of
the Canadian wine industry, representing wineries across
Canada and responsible for producing more than 90 percent of
annual wine production in this country. He also represents
Canada’s national wine industry at all federal policy issues on all
federal policy issues, and joins me live now from his home in
Ottawa. Welcome to the Sunday Sipper Club, Dan Paszkowski.
Hello, Dan. Oh, Natalie. Hi. How are you? Good, good, good. , I
want to make sure that everyone can see and hear you just fine
to me a little bit low, but, we’ll see if that’s just me and my
earbuds or if, what folks are feeling. So, maybe you can sit
close and speak up because we’ve got a lot of issues to talk
about tonight. , so tell us, before we jump into all of these
issues, Dan, tell me about you personally and why, where did
you first get an interest in wine and what, what, where were
you, what happened to sort of trigger that interest in wine
Dan: 03:37 at a young age My mother’s, my mother’s from France, so
there was always wine in the house and my, my uncle always
made a made wine every year, whatever they, a local bounty
provided. So he produced blueberry wine and cherry wine. I
grew up in northern Ontario, so grapes that were an option for
us. So it goes way back and the university, I just started getting
a growing a growing interest in, in life, trying wine from buying
a few models from different regions and it sorta became a, not
a connoisseur, not a sommelier, but I bought a big enthusiast.
Natalie: 04:15 Awesome. That’s great. And so tell me, what wine, which wine
is in your glass tonight?
Dan: 04:21 Well, so now you pulled out of the cellar, a wonderful, a glass of
British Columbia wine.
Natalie: 04:30 How convenient. I have the Tantalus Pino Noir and I’m loving it
and also crying in my beer because I can’t get this wine. I can’t
order it a legally, at least. I’m sure there are ways around that
because I live in Ontario, which is just insane. So that kind of, ,
before we dive right into that issue though, of the direct
shipping, let’s talk about the Canadian wine industry to give
people a perspective of just how important and grassroots
literally, I don’t mean to punt on it. This industry is to us. So how
many wineries give us a sense of how large the industry is? How
many wineries are there now in Canada?
Dan: 05:09 We have roughly 700, great wineries in Canada today. And
that’s up from roughly around 300, 350 wineries back about a
decade, a decade ago. So there’s been a significant explosion in
investment and they indicated wine industry in British Columbia
and Ontario for in particular, but also in the province of Nova
Scotia.
Natalie: 05:30 Right. And how many hectors of wine are there are? Sorry,
vineyards?
Dan: 05: 36, it was about 31,000 acres that are, that are planted at the, at
the moment that, that would translate into, I think
approximately 12,500 hectares.
Dan: 06:23 Okay. There are roughly around 700 wineries currently and in
Canada in six producing provinces there. There’s been a
significant explosion in the number of wineries that have opened in
the past decade.
Dan: 06:48 300 to 350 wineries that have opened up in the past decade in
Canada, mainly in British Columbia and Ontario, but also
significant investment in Nova Scotia and the province of
Quebec.
Natalie: 06:52 Okay. So, Dan, that’s good. So the winery, the wine industry is
really growing fast quickly. What are the annual sales of
Canadian wine?
Dan: 07:37 Oh, well currently we’re at around 165 million liters per year.
About 50 million of that would be 100 percent Canadian wines.
And the difference would be the international blends that we
produced, which are a blend of the imported and domestic
wines.
Natalie: 07:54 Okay. And, , does, Ontario produce about 90 percent of the
wine?
Dan: 08:02 No, . They’re probably about half of the, of the wine production
in Canada with a British Columbia. I’ve come again, come again,
second, followed by Quebec and Nova Scotia.
Natalie: 08:14 Okay. And, tell us like, just, let’s get a sense of the
importance of the Canadian wine industry. How much does it
contribute to Canada’s economy and, and how is that
calculated?
Dan: 08:27 All right. The last study that we, that we completed a was in
march of 2017 and that was based on 2015 data. , what the
study told us that we’re roughly about a 9 billion dollar industry.
, and the way that we, that we calculate that as we take a look
at all of the wind production, the grape production. Now
we look further down the line in terms of the, the impacts on
transportation, on liquor boards, on multiple retail outlets, on
the restaurants and bars to come up with the multiplier effect
of the Canadian wine industry, which comes out to be about 9
billion, which I anticipate as is over 10 billion at this point in
time.
Natalie: 09:09 That’s significant. And you know, as I was saying in the intro or
previous videos, it’s a really, it’s such a value added industry to
be. I can’t think of anything comparable except maybe cheese in
Canada that’s that much value add when it comes to our
agricultural products. So that’s where it’s probably adding all of
this, you know, value to the Canadian economy. And, you
know, one thing I like to say is there’s nothing else we put on
the dinner table that’s still in its original package except for
maybe why we don’t, you know, we don’t labeling or apples or
you know, you don’t know where they come from, but wine
often the bottle is on the table and thus the value add it’s right
there in front of us.
Dan: 09:53 Correct. I mean, it is the highest value added agricultural
product in the, in the world. And what our study showed is that
for every bottle of Canadian wine produced and, and purchased
in Canada, contributes about $90 to the Canadian economy.
That’s 100 percent Canadian, a Canadian wine. So if we
compare that to an imported bottle of wine, you’re looking at
about $15 and sixty cents. So, you know, Canadian purchasing
Canadian wine, it makes a significant contribution to our
economy.
Natalie: 10:23 Okay, well that’s significant. And how many people work in the
Canadian wine industry?
Dan: 10:28 We estimate about 37,000 people direct indirect, jobs that are
created by the Canadian wine industry.
Natalie: 10:48 This is so valuable and so interesting. People are loving it, but
we just need to keep it up the vole up. All right, so, now let’s
start with this whole cross-border shipping. Maybe you could in
a, in a nutshell, tell us what the issue is because if I understand
it correctly, the federal government is fine with us shipping,
buying wine across the country, but it’s the provinces that are
the stopping gate, if you will maybe summarize what is the issue
and why it’s important.
Dan: 11:19 Well, basically in 1928, the federal government have put in
place legislation which created the liquor board system and
you’ve got all alcohol has to flow through the liquor board in the
province where the wine or other alcoholic beverages are being
consed. That legislation wasn’t changed for some 80 something
years. And finally, the federal government amended, amended
the laws, to say that it is no longer a criminal violation to bring
wine across provincial orders. That legislation in 2012 was
passed both in the House of Commons and in the Senate, which,
as you can imagine, is a, is a historic event for any piece of
legislation in Canada. so what the legislation did, it says you are
allowed to bring a wine on your person or by a courier or
transport across a border. , but the regulations have to be
established by the, by the provinces.
Dan: 12:19 And, what immediately happened was that the majority of the
provinces, immediately established a very low personal
exemption. Women’s Ontario, for example, put in place you can
carry one case of wine back into Ontario as long as that wine is
carried into the province on your, on your person, a few
provinces. When further Manitoba immediately opened up its
borders, British Columbia immediately opened up its borders.
Nova Scotia, a few years later, opened up this border. So
currently we have seven provinces that have not agreed to open
their borders to direct consumer a delivery of, of wine. And
that’s what we’re trying to address right now. The federal
government is very supportive, but it is a provincial decision and
individual problems. The decision to open up a and they have
been having those discussions. The premier is mapped in
July of this year and they almost came to a decision to double
the amount of the personal exemption in Canada.
Dan: 13:17 So let me explain what that means. If you would now be able to
bring in two bottles of wine, but to an in Ontario you’ll be able to
bring in two cases of wine, not one case two cases, , but
Natalie, if you live in Kitchener, you would have to travel 1200
kilometers to get to the Manitoba border, 550 kilometers to get
to the, to the, to the pullback border, it’d be able to make use of
this personal exemption. It makes absolutely no sense unless
you live longer along a provincial border like we do here in
Ottawa. There are no wineries across the border. I mean, I want
to get some wine from British Columbia, but I’m wondering the
lucky ones that get there one or two times per year. Most
Canadians don’t, aren’t in that position to get there and actually
purchased the wine to be able to carry those two cases of wine
or one case of wine back with them. And that’s, that’s where
the problem was.
Natalie: 14:06 Yeah. So why are they, why do they think that’s a solution? Why
aren’t they just saying, Hey, Canadians buy Canadian wine,
wherever you like and however much and get it shipped right to
your door, what’s stopping them from doing that
Dan: 14:19 while the two, two arguments that they’ve put forward? I guess
three, number one, they would argue that from a social
responsibility perspective, you can’t, you can’t have wine
delivered to your home from a, from a, not from a winery
because kids would be ordering wine. I don’t know any kids that
would order wine from British Columbia, pay $4 per bottle
transportation costs and wait a week for it to arrive for, for next
Friday night. Nobody plans in advance. In addition, we allow for
direct delivery of wine within the province of Ontario, within
the province of British Columbia. So it’s already within, within
the, within the province, interrupt provincially. The second
issue is taxation. I’m the liquor boards argued that they would
lose, they would lose too much revenue by allowing this to
happen and that these wines would displace wines per sale in
the liquor boards.
Dan: 15:08 , we argue that’s not, that’s not the case name. As Canadians
become more educated about, about wine, they’re gonna stop
at the liquor store and continue to purchase wine that
overtalking about a year, our small lot hard to find wines that
are not currently available then in the province, if they are
available in the province, why would you pay three to $4 a
bottle and have it shipped to your home? It doesn’t make sense.
And a third issue that they put on the table is, is an international
trade obligation, that this would be a violation of
international trade obligations. And we put forward a number
of proposals that would suggest that you do. There are ways
that you implement this, that, that would meet those
international trade obligations. So there’s, these are the three
excuses they put on the table that had been holding things back
for the past 80 years.
Natalie: 15:53 Is it just about protecting the local liquor monopolies? Really?
Dan: 15:58 I believe it’s a, it’s thin. There was a, you know, they don’t
want to open up that door, in fear that the door would, would
blow open, and have an impact on all of the monopoly system
operates so well we view is that that tax is a majority of those
taxes could still be collected, but if the liquor board isn’t
offering any service for delivery of that, for the delivery of that
wine, then they shouldn’t be able to charge a cost to service
charge for that because the wineries doing all, all of the work,
you know, sales taxes, GST, those things, as with any means of
e-commerce, you know, the province has the right to collect
those taxes.
Natalie: 17:26 All right, so, so Dan, do you think that if, if we were permitted if
they did open the borders to Canadian wine, would all wines be
next necessarily or do you think that the shipping costs would
just discourage people? Like, say I want a Tuscan wine that’s
only available in out in Alberta Liquor store it. I live in Ontario.
Do you think that’s what follows next?
Dan: 17:47 Okay. Currently, currently, if you to have that, if you want to
access that particular Tuscan wine, you can go through your
liquor board and have it procured for you from the province of
Alberta or you go to order the wine through your liquor board
directly from the, from the winery in Tuscany. there are
many options to be able to access those lines., we don’t believe
that this is going to be a significant channel for wine. I mean,
you know, most wines are fairly well represented. Liquor boards
across the country. So in all, I think if it was made available to,
to imports a, it would be a very, very small channel. Not even
worth the importance actually, putting in place the measures
to be able to provide that one case of wine, a special line to a
consumer in the province of Ontario.
Dan: 18:36 Case that in the case of Canadian wines, maybe we estimate
that, you know, maybe 130,000, 250,000 cases of wine would, ,
would move across the country through the direct to consumer
delivery channel. Extremely important for those small lot wine
to be able to get a bill bad that loyalty amongst consumers
across the country because as we know, no liquor boards carry
a lot of wines, but they’re, there is, there are many wines that
are produced that are award winning globally recognized, but
they’re small lot they’ll never, they’ll never enter into the, into
the liquor board system. So unless you traveled to Nova Scotia
or to, or to British Columbia and visited that winery,, you’re
never going to be able to have the opportunity to,, to purchase
it with a without a winery to consumer delivery system in this, ,
in this country, there will be an ability to collect something,
some red tax revenue off that wine that’s being shipped in the
mean, what the provinces we’re talking about it in July was the
double the amount of personal exemption. But no, none of the
provinces police that. None of the problems to collect any tax
revenue on that. I mean, you could travel to pull back a 100
times today, Natalie and bring and bring a case of wine across
every time you’d be with within the rights of the law but
Ontario is not collecting any tax revenue every time you would
do that. So what we’re proposing, it is an option that is very
viable.
Natalie: 19:56 Wow. Wow. That’s just seems to be like, let’s, let’s vote for
sanity. People here. I’m just going to acknowledge some of you
in the comments because you are just pouring in here and I
really appreciate it. , so we’ve got,, let me just go back down
here. Elaine. Bruce is in Calgary. Linda Michaels is in
Pennsylvania, highly regulated state. She knows she’s a very
Canadian in the way her liquor board works. David Head is here
from Ontario. Francis is in Ottawa. Jason is here from London,
UK where it is dark and he has had to deal with issues. ,
Facebook does not. Okay. Paul is here. Paul Hollander says
some years ago I tried to have wine shipped from Pennsylvania
to Virginia. It was a no go. Likewise. I tried to send a bottle to a
friend in Massachusetts and was stopped. Asher, Asher, I’m glad
you’re here. , Francis says, doesn’t the model in Alberta actually
generate more revenue for the province than the loan Crown
Corporation approach it? , the LCBO and Ontario. Dan, maybe
you can answer that one, please. If you know,
Dan: 21:26 I’m not familiar with, with what the revenues are in the
province of Alberta. I mean they do have a privatized system
there, which is slightly different than the other jurisdictions and
you know, it is something I think other provinces have
looked at. , but that’s, that’s a political decision as to what
decision to move to move where Alberta did 20, 25 years ago.
Natalie: 21:47 Yes, absolutely. Elaine Bruce says Albert is lucky in that way. I
felt bad for my Ontario friends and just wanting to ship a wine
home from a boy who just wanted to ship wine home from
Bordeaux. Could this be an issue of supply and demand? Linda
asks, economies are more and more just based on Justin, based
on just in time supply chain. Yeah, you’re right. , so,
Dan: 22:23 yeah, about Alberta, Alberta, I’ll, you know, it’s, it is a province
which has really, in favor of a trade. Yes. But as soon as bill seats
3:11 passed in 2012, shortly afterward they amended their
legislation, which continues to allow the residents of Alberta to
travel to British Columbia, Ontario and bring a tractor-trailer
load of wind back on. But they cannot order one bottle of wine
by a courier or I’ll stay with and have that delivered by courier.
Otherwise, they’d be in violation of the law in Alberta and be
penalized by, by a fine and slash or jail time.
Natalie: 23:02 Really. Even in Alberta. Wow. I don’t get this at all. It just seems
so tangled in a mix of taxes and lobbying and not what’s good
for consumers. It just really does not make sense. Trying to even
find a reason for the way things are. , so tell me, Dan. I’m
about when the, the terror, the provincial-territorial ministers
met in a conference for a conference in Nyack right now. They
were buying some wines themselves. So what happened there?
Dan: 23:35 Oh, it was, it was quite interesting because this was a couple of
years ago when every year the premier’s and territorial
premier’s neat in a, in a different province. This year was in
New Brunswick and a couple of years ago were in Ontario. And in
the evenings there, their delegations, we need a different
wineries across the province and a premier has enjoyed the
wine and they were buying cases of wine at these, at these
wineries, mean much more wine than I can imagine you can
consume in your hotel room at night. So a while it’s not good
enough for Canadians to be able to bring line home with them
or have wine delivered. The premiers were definitely, we’re
enjoying the wine and we’re bringing Ontario wine home back
to their back to their jurisdiction, which would be in violation of
their own loss.
Natalie: 24:18 Again, more just, it doesn’t make sense. It does not make sense.
And tell me about, so, so even they are trying to do things
against their own legislation. , but tell me what a Sandra
Oldfield did from Tinhorn winery. what, what did she do to
prove a point?
Dan: 24:37 This goes back a number, a number of years, but I mean, in
terms of trying to show a Canadians and politicians how
ridiculous it is not to be able to order a case of wine from the
winery outside your providence., she ordered a firearm from a
different province, now that firearm delivered to her, to her
home and British Columbia. It arrived a couple of, a couple of
days later, but it made, it is, it is so ridiculous that you cannot
order a case of wine from your favorite winery and have it
delivered to your home province, but you can order a firearm,
for many, any jurisdiction across Canada and have it couriered
to your home.
Natalie: 25:13 That’s great. And we’re about to legalize cannabis, but why? No,
no, you’ve got to, you know, better watch those Merlo drinkers.
They’re just going to, we’re going to go off on a bender. Okay.
So, now tell me, Dan, you made a point sometime when we
were earlier, chatting about this earlier, a winery is legally
allowed to deliver wine to a customer in Texas, but not, but it
has to refuse a customer visiting from New Brunswick. So, so
we’re talking to Canadian winery can send off wine to Texas, but
not someone who lives in Canada, is that right?
Dan: 26:17 That’s correct. I mean, it’ll take Niagara for example, we have a
lot of fantastic Quebec tourists that visit the Niagara region
because , in a province of Quebec wines have less than one
a quarter of one percent market share. So they come to Niagara,
they visit the region, they stopped by the wineries and an owner
gave me this example is, you know, I’ve got a queue at my cash
register of,
Dan: 26:44 of tourists buying, buying one, two cases of wine. A guy from
Texas approaches, the till and, and says, you know, can you
ship this back? There are two cases of wine back for maybe a lot
easier than, than traveling with it in my trunk. Of course, we can
do that. We’re going to arrange the courier service for you then,
then a Canadian, whether it’s from New Brunswick or whether
it’s from, from Quebec approaches, and says, you know what,
it’s a great idea. I mean, rather than rather than my risk and
spoiling the wine in the back of my trunk, can you ship that wine
to my, to my home province? And unfortunately, the winery
has to deny that opportunity and it will be illegal for, for
him or her to ship that wine to go bad or to, or to New
Brunswick and therefore no sale isn’t necessarily lost, but it just
points out to how ridiculous this is and how challenging it is
for a winery in Canada.
Dan: 27:40 unlike any other widget that sold in this country, you have to
reject the opportunity to make a, a potential sale or to build
that loyal relationship with that consumer and another in
another province who may go back, love the wine and tell the
story of the wine to their friends, order more wine. Maybe their
friends will not order wine. , because it’s not available in their
jurisdiction at the end of the day, you know, it’s possible that
the liquor board May, may list that product, but well, it’s not
listed. It’s not available unless you, unless you order it or
stop by the winery.
Natalie: 28:08 Wow. I love the scenarios. You propose. It just, it puts it into
stark relief, this issue. , I got some interesting comments from
Jason Davis. This is a crazy way to promote a wine region. I
agree. Jason. Surely consumers like us can do something even if
it’s lobbying. Hey, nice segway. Dan. Where can we go? Is it just
for Canadians or anybody to sign that petition? That’s online?
Tell us about that, what, what, what we need to do to lobby for
our local politicians.
Dan: 29:15 and, there is a website called freemygrapes.ca so that,
that does have a petition to write to your local,
politician to encourage them to do, to do the right thing and,
allow for winery consumer delivery in this,, in this country and
that, that is extremely important at this point in time. for a
number of reasons. Number one, the premiers have
that, you know, we have to do something about internal trade
given the given the trade protectionism that has taken place
around the, around the world, there is an opportunity to create
trade and in Canada, in fact, the value of internal trading Canada
is greater than Canada you trade agreement or a trade
agreement with China for that matter. So there are great
opportunities and premiers recognize that they have
taken the first step to open up discussion on this in July.
Dan: 30:06 , which was a positive, a positive development in
itself. , the federal prime minister has created a, a, a minister of
internal trade, administer Dominic Leblanc from, from New
Brunswick, and now has the responsibility for, for internal trade.
the cabinet met last month and they had a broad discussion on,
on internal trade, and the prime minister agreed, to hold a first
ministers conference with all premier’s before the end of this
year in which internal trade will likely be a topic of discussion.
So if there is an opportunity to, get a groundswell of support
from, from Canadians, to their provincial, their provincial
leaders, this is the time to do it. We do have a big window of
opportunity here to, to make, a significant accomplishment.
Natalie: 30:55 Awesome. That’s great Dave had said, we get wine shipped all
the time from Nova Scotia and BC, so Dan, you don’t have to
make an official comment, but what I hear from wineries, and
I’ll just put it out there, ar online wines. It’s just technically
illegal and you can make no comment, but I want to make it
clear to people that you can contact wineries and ask them to
send you wine. , that’s what I believe.
Natalie: 31:49 I don’t know other people like Dave Head. Do you have
experience in that? Like, I know, I do know that people ship
regularly, a favorite Nova Scotia winery up here that are
distributed across the country, but you can’t get all their wines
and vice versa. So there are ways to do it directly. And there are
some advocates like openly, like painted rock John Skinner, he’s
all in, he’s shipping lines everywhere and he makes no bones
about it. He’s not being like secretive or private. It’s just like,
this is insane. I should be able to ship my wines wherever, so I
don’t know if there’s any other thing you want to add to that,
Dan. It’s okay if you don’t.
Dan: 32:28 That is a personal decision of the individual wineries to
make. Yeah. they’re trying to keep their, their
consumers a happy and maintain that loyal base in, like I said, in
seven of 10 provinces. It is technically illegal. , I don’t think
that any provincial governments want to undergo an another
Gerard Comeau case. , so unless
Natalie: 32:53 case where the, he tried to buy beer and bring it across the
border in New Brunswick is that,
Dan: 32:59 that’s correct. A beer, wine, and spirits across the border from
Quebec into the province of New Brunswick. And you know, if,
if, if the case, if a Canadian consumer was, was challenged or a
winery was challenged for having a case of wine delivered to
them, took action, I think that would be an international media
story, that would last for a significant amount of time. And
we’d be the laughing stock of the world because we are,
probably the only wine-producing jurisdiction in the ground,
that globe that doesn’t allow for a wide readership, a case of
wine to a consumer in a different different province or state or
country, if you, if you, if you live within the European Union for
that matter. So it’s a, it’s a personal decision. And then is a
provincial decision as to whether or not they’d want to take
action, which I doubt that they would
Natalie: 33:51 the only wine producing country, most likely that doesn’t allow
shipping of its own wines within its own borders in the world
that I know you’re online. If you can post that link to free my
grapes where people can sign up and it’s so easy to use. I’ve
done it and it, it’s got the letter drafted to your local politician
to say, Hey, this is insane. Free my grapes. So if somebody could
post that in the comments below if you’re still here or
somebody else, that would be great. I’d really appreciate it. I’m
now and you’ve done surveys. , so I mean, you’ve surveyed,
you’ve asked Canadians about this issue, and so what have the
results there? What, what do Canadians actually think about,
you know, agricultural and wine industries being able to ship
within the borders?
Dan: 34:41 the latest survey we did was in December of 2017 and nine out
of 10 Canadians, agreed, that, that, Canada should amend its
rules to allow for winery to consumer delivery, inner
provincially, the nine out of 10 Canadians. I mean that is a
really, really solid statistic to tell the government that a consumer
wants to access. They think this is ridiculous.
Natalie: 35:07 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Especially when I think of all those tiny
small wineries that as wine lovers we want and for that little
tiny business, that entrepreneurial startup who can’t get into
the liquor board because that’s just too big a vole to fill. The
only way you can survive is having a direct relationship with those
zealot fans across the country. I mean, it just, it’s that
connection needs to be made.
Dan: 35:33 It is, it is the first step right here. You’re absolutely correct for that
small winery. Can’t access to liquor board system and in their
province or have distribution outside of their province for that,
for that matter. currently, the only option is to, is to hope that a
tourist is going to drive down the gravel road that really is the
only available option. And the United States, you know, when the
Supreme Court ruled in 2005, it was unconstitutional, , not to
allow for direct delivery within the state, but not to allow an
estate winery to ship into that state. We currently have 45 out
of 50 states that allow direct to consumer delivery in the US.
Those small wineries are making better margins, a reinvesting
back into their winery. They’re growing, they’re increasing their
production and now they’re at the point where they’re ready to
export. And where are they going to export to? They’re going to
export to Canada because that is the closest and the easiest
option for them. , so we’re, we’re in a really awkward
predicament here and not being able to access our loyal
consumers across the country through direct delivery when it’s
creating a real economic opportunity for us. Producers, we’d
like to have that same opportunity for our 700 wineries,
Natalie: 36:42 right, with our consumers, so absolutely. Yeah. So we, we’re
allowing all these small little artismal startup wineries in the US
and elsewhere abroad to get a foothold here and tying the
hands behind the back of our own wineries. Like again,
honestly, that’s just insane. Especially, you know, again, from
the, a sampling of wineries, but also, you know, if you believe in
regional food pairings, wine, and food, what goes together, what
grows together goes together. Wine and food made from that
region. I’m supporting local, all the, you know, the big
movement of drink, local, eat local, hundred kilometer radius,
all that stuff. This goes clearly in the face of that. So anyway, I
think we’re preaching to the converted, but we still, we’re
gonna, we’re gonna say we’re going to sing all the hymns
tonight. , so what. Oh, let me go back here because Gwen
Barton has joined. Welcome, Gwen and Deb have a posted the
link to act out.freeMygrapes.ca. So go there folks and sign up.
It’s so easy now. So Dan, turning to another cross-border issue a
lot is in the news lately about the Nafta negotiations. Do you
think there’s an impact for Canadian wines, the wine industry,
and also for Canadian wine drinkers?
Dan: 38:01 Well, I mean, Nafta. Nafta was signed many, many years ago
and you know, it, it, it’s predated by the Canada, US free trade
agreement in 1,988. And really what’s happened over the past
30 years since that agreement was signed, is that the United
States has seen double-digit growth in terms of value and vole
sales into, into Canada. they’d gone from roughly $19,000,000
the worth of sales to $500,000,000 worth of sales and they’re
currently the number one bottled wine importer into, into
Canada. So they’ve done extremely, extremely well underneath
the, underneath the agreement in the case of Canada. I mean,
we’ve increased our sales by 200,000 cases a year into, into
The US. So we only sell right now with the 17 of, of the safety of the
50 states. And, really, it’s been a one-sided, one side of the
agreement from that, from that perspective, largely to do with
the way that the US system operates.
Dan: 39:03 They have a three-tier system which is a challenge to access the
consumer through compared to a monopoly system in Canada
where it’s a one-stop shop for us to, for us producers. So, you
know, we believe that there will be progress made in that, in
that agreement, likely through harmonization of the line
regulations such as labeling, things of that, things of that nature
to reduce the costs of, of a shipping line between, between the
two, the two countries. but at this point in time, we really don’t
know whether there’s going to be any, any additional
movement in the fast track process that’s a that’s currently
underway where wine doesn’t appear to be anywhere near the
top of the list of subjects that, at the minister’s are currently
talking about.
Natalie: 39:48 Interesting. Because I’ve heard too that for California wine,
which is the bulk of why made in the US, Canada, is the number
one export country was very important to them.
Dan: 39:59 We are extremely important to, to California in particular. Not
only is it the largest wine producing state in the United States, a
94 percent of total us imports into Canada has come from the
state of, of California. So it is, it is, has been extremely
lucrative, for us, US wine producers from that particular
state. The growth has been exponential at about 12
to 13 percent average annual growth for, for a year. Any sector,
would be licking their lips to be able to have that annual growth.
Natalie: 40:36 Wow. Well, Jason Davis says we’re starting a revolution here
tonight. I agree, Jason. And that requires a toast. There you go.
And let me just acknowledge a few other comments that have
come in. I’m, Jason says one solution. All Canadians should live
in the UK. I traveled to France and see if they can prove that
the wine they are buying is for personal consumption as they can bring
in 95 liters. Wow. Okay. And Linda says we’re limited in bringing
Canadian wines to the US. She’s down in Pennsylvania. , all.
Alright. So, and then just one question I meant to ask you, Dan,
do you have any notion or any idea what the growth might be
for the Canadian industry if we had no provincial boundaries if
we just dropped all the cross-border shipping boundaries within
our own country for all these little small wineries. What how,
how fast, how much, how far could our wine grow?
Dan: 41:35 Well, I think, I think it’d be extremely important for, for every
winery in this, in this country, what we’re talking about through
direct to consumer delivery is not, you’re under $10 wise. We’re
looking at the super premium super premium wines that, that
would be a moving through that, through that channel. I’m just
given the fact that that transportation costs that you adopt to
incur a three slash $4 for a per bottle to have that shift from
let’s say British Columbia to do Ontario. so the analysis that
we’ve done is that we estimate that will be somewhere around
a hundred $30,000 to 150,000 cases of wine. This would be high
value, high-value wine. So it’s wine that’s not currently available
in, in the province to where the consumer is seeking that,
seeking that product. So it’s going to build that brand loyalty
that, that winery loyalty with that, with that consumer a, they
typically, typically, they’ll, you’ll finally be able to have a wine
club that actually shifts to two members outside of the borders
of your, of your province.
Dan: 42:39 You will be able to take advantage of a full advantage of what
your, your website can do or what social media can do or
different forms of e-commerce going to do. I mean, it’s, it’s
incredible that in this day and age, a winery invests in those
forms of social media to be able to sell, to consume to the
limited number of consumers within their own province. so
what it’ll do is it will, it will expand those opportunities. They’ll
build that load, that loyal following it will provide, will provide
provinces with information of the other one that’s entering into
the province, from a different jurisdiction and give them the
opportunity as free research, right? Given the opportunity to
start listing this, , this tantalus recycling that I’m drinking right
now that currently isn’t available and at the LLC deal, but if they
see that there are 30, 40, a hundred cases of that, being sold, they
have the option of listing that product, which, which they
currently don’t. So I think it creates great opportunities for the
winery. I think that creates great opportunities for consumers.
We’re going to increase their knowledge and men are going to
hopefully go out there and spend more, spend more money
buying Canadian. That’s Canadian wine, whether it’s
through direct delivery, but in particular, I think they’re going to
increase their purchases at their local. They’re local retail stores,
which is going to create more, more generation of, more tax
revenues for, for that particular province. So it’s a win-win, win
situation.
Natalie: 43:59 Absolutely. More tax revenues, more into the economy, more
jobs, everything. It’s all going toward that higher value-add. It
just makes so much sense. So, folks, this was a great
conversation. If you’re enjoying it, take a moment right now to
share this video. If you’re watching the replay, please share it
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of every session next week, I’ll be drawing for a winner based on
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want to take your knowledge to the next level, join me on a free
online wine video course on how to taste wine like a pro. All
right, Dan. So let’s move on to one other issue here that’s a bit
of a hot button. What do you, what is your opinion view on
wines that are labeled as cellared in Canada? So there, they’re
bottled here in Canada, but they don’t contain 100 percent
Canadian juice, grapes, wine if you will.
Dan: 45:01 Well, you know, from my perspective and that of our
organization is, you know, as long as, as long as the label is
truthful to the consumer as to what is in the bottle, which, you
know, it is the case. , the intercepted the consumer to decide what
they want. They want to, to purchase. The vast majority of
Canadians do buy wine under $10 for a bottle. And if we didn’t
produce that bottle here in Canada, it’s definitely being
produced in different parts of the world. There’s three blended
wine production happening everywhere in the world. And, and
our sales would be displaced by an important, by product. I
mean, we’ve had this discussion, over the, over the years. ,
currently, there has been a ruling by the Canadian Food
Inspection Agency to amend the label from salaried in Canada
important than domestic wise to international blend from
import and domestic, a domestic wine.
Dan: 45:57 So it is, there is no Canadian connection to that to confuse
consumers as, as a number of people said was the, was the case in the
past. It very clearly states that it is an international brand and
within that blend is imported and domestic a domestic content.
So it’s a very clear, and we’re at the point now of transitioning
into that new label and as the, as the wineries burned down
their current stock of labels, they will be replaced with a, , with
the new, with the new labels, which, like I said, I think it was as
clear a consumers have told us that it is, that it is clear and we
hope that that will, that will end that end, that debate. And we
will, we’ll continue to produce those two types. Those two types
of lines, many, many people that,, including myself that, that
the one in my younger years, a purchase to purchase these
types of these types of wines and you know, then I eventually
graduated into a, into a higher price to higher price product. So,
I mean, I think it’s better for the Canadian economy to produce
those products truthfully here in this country rather than
producing them buying an $8 Chilean wine and graduating to
a15, 20, $30 Chilean wine and never leaving. Never leaving that,
Natalie: 47:13 category. You’re right. So the training wheels, we should have
the training wheel wines right here. But I, I agree with you. I
didn’t know what was happening. The international blend. I think
that’s a fair label and section in the, in the liquor store. It
bothers me when I see cellared in Canada. I think so misleadingly,
but I’m glad that’s the direction that, the labeling is headed in.
Dan is pitch hitting for us with the Canadian for the Canadian
wine industry with politicians and lobbyists and so on. So Dan,
what are the other trends that are facing the Canadian wine
industry or Canadian wine drinkers? Is there anything that we
haven’t talked about that you want to bring up right now?
Dan: 48: 07, trends as in, as in favorite types of, of wine
Natalie: 48:10 or issues or, you know, what are we going to see in the future?
Where’s it going? It could be anything. Maybe that’s just too
broad of the phrasing, but is there anything, you know, we’ve
talked about cross-border shipping, we’ve talked about celler in
Canada and Nafta. Is there any other hot-button issue that you
think we haven’t touched on that we should talk about?
Dan: 48:31 Well, I think the key thing that both federal and provincial
governments are interested in is a signing more free trade
agreements, , expand our trade portfolio, diversifying our,
our, our exports of a, of all of all products. , you know, that,
that, that really is a young in a way being spurred by the
challenges that we’re currently having with, with the trip
administration for, for example. , but we’re not, we’re a small
wine producing country. , we do export a and we’re exporting
some fantastic wines for different parts of the world, but we’re
never going to be a, a big play or in the export market. , at the
same time, we only have a 32 percent market share of wines
produced in Canada. If I break that down to sort of 100 percent
Canadian wines, we have about a 10 percent market share in
this country for those, for those wines which leave almost 70
percent market share for, for imports.
Dan: 49:32 We are one of the top destinations for wine from some
countries from around the world. , and it’s an easy market to, to
access. So, you know, they, the removal of internal barriers to
trade is extremely important because unless we can gain a
larger share of our own domestic market, it can’t turn our
attention to shifting a couple of cases of wine outside of
Canada. So the linkage between growing our exports and
removing internal barriers to trade are very much linked, but
something that, that we also have to do a better job of and that
we are talking to governments about is, better promotion of our
wines, across, across, across this country in countries such as
Europe or Australia. The United States are spending millions of
dollars building their brands in this country and, you know, we
just don’t have the to do that.
Dan: 50: 29, you know, where were these foreign governments are
subsidizing and providing grants, to wineries to export access
to Canadian marketplace that, that’s the two hands that are tied
behind our back, that isn’t allowing us to grow. And, you
know, if we don’t remove these barriers to trade, we can’t
export. We can’t take advantage of these free trade
agreements. they’ve removed import tariffs now on 91 percent
of all the line that comes into this, this country that’s really a
competitive challenge for our, for our producers. So I’m doing
more in terms of marketing our product in Canada. Removing
internal barriers to trade are critical to take advantage of all the
other issues that we have to face in a, you know, as a small
producer in a cool climate.
Natalie: 51:15 Absolutely you, you encapsulize it’s so well done. And you
know, I see ads online and in magazines funded by the
European Union. It’s all over the place and you just know when
that funding comes into the market, it’s just a wash with wines
from various European countries and it’s just not there for
Canadian wines. , we need to get behind this. I mean it’s, it’s
grassroots
Dan: 51:41 Austraila just announced that they’re providing their industry
$50,000,000 to, to build their brands in the export market.
Canada is one of the top destinations for, for Australia,
you’ve got the European Union and providing 40 percent of
every dollar in a grant for new equipment and machinery. So it’s
difficult to compete, with, with those countries when they’re
receiving such, such a significant amount of support from there,
from their local government. So we’re looking for, is the ground
floor, was the cellar wine within our own country?
Natalie: 52:12 Yeah. Yeah. Just some basic leveling of the playing field The
vineyard field. Wow. Okay. So some heavy topics, but some
great discussion. , let’s lighten it up as we head into the home
run here a homestretch, Dan. , do you have a favorite Canadian
wine and food pairing? Is there anything that pops to mind?
Dan: 52:35 Well, me and my wife are really big fans of a grilling and, you
know, Cedar Plank Salmon is probably one of my, one of my all
time favorites. , you know, and the period that I, it’s a little bit
unique I would think, but, it is, Syrah I mean Riesling or
chardonnay with, my salmon but, you know, it sets a meaty oily
fish and, and having a, having a fantastic Syrah to go along with
that matches really well. And we thought it was different when
we tried it, but if anybody wants to try it, it’s a fantastic pair.
Natalie: 53:09 Try it because Syrah is low in Tannin and if you’ve got those grill
marks on the fish, you’ve got that smoky flavor that will come in
through the wine that just might work. Dan, we might try that. ,
we’re getting some wonderful comments here. I just, I want to
acknowledge them. , Jackie tuning in from London. Really
interesting show. How can we get Canadian wines to the UK?
There’s a big push for that too. There’s been a lot of trade
shows and things at Canada house showcasing Canadian wine.
She says, can’t find them anywhere. Here. Need me some Pino
Noir from Niagara. Jackie, we’re going to jump back in the
comments after this chats over and give you some links and so
on and, and point you in the right directions. I know it’s sparse,
but it’s starting to happen. Devin. Vancouver says, absolutely.
Removing barriers to trade is important to Canadian wine while
becoming more than a blip on the worldwide, a worldwide wine
market map.
Natalie: 54:07 Paul says, the only Canadian wines we see in Virginia, a couple
ice wines, I’m Linda says I will look for Canadian store in US
stores. Any recommendations. I’m Jackie. You won’t even let.
Okay. So we will, we will post in there. We’ve got a lot of
international people here on board tonight. So I’m so glad you
all are so interested in Canadian wine. , but we’re going to post
more in the comments in answer to you because you need
some links. You need some resources and some specific
direction that we will put in after our chat is over. So let us just
go to a bit of the lightning round here. Dan, what’s the best
piece of advice you’ve ever received?
Dan: 54:51 your gut, your gut instinct., nine times out of 10, , you
know, what, what your thoughts are about a particular wine or
what your thoughts are about what might pair with a, with a
particular food dish are. Correct. So I just say stick. Stick with
your instincts. You wont go wrong.
Natalie: 55:10 And if you could share a bottle of Canadian one with anyone
living or dead, who would that be?
Dan: 55:18 you know, I, I pull out maybe Robert Mondavi.
Natalie: 55:21 Oh, that one. This is Canadian wine. No, no, no, no, no.
Dan: 55:25 I’m just thinking here with Y’all. He is an icon and you know, if I,
if I wanted to share a bottle of wine with somebody, I’d like to
do a blind tasting with somebody with somebody of that stature
who can recognize the quality of wine that we’re producing a up
here. So.
Natalie: 55:43 Okay, so you’re saying you’d like to taste with Robert Mondavi
and bring him a Canadian wine. Right? Right. Gotcha. Okay.
Okay. Yes. All right, cool. And, , and if you could give us a wine
tip, some type of piece of the device that we could do or
implement this week to up our Canadian wine savvy game, what
would you suggest we do?
Dan: 56:09 I think to, you know, to restaurants, , across Canada. I’d say
start putting more, , more Canadian wines on your menus in
general. , but start putting more Canadian wines on your menus
by the glass, , and to consumers, I’d say take the opportunity to
try Canadian wines by the glass tastes against another
chardonnay or another, another syrahum. And, , I think you’ll be
pleasantly surprised once you do that over and over again. I
think you are going to very quickly turn towards a Canadian
wine as your, as your wine of choice, as I think that’d be my
advice to both restaurants and consumers.
Natalie: 56:49 Good way to finish. Alright, Dan, where can we find you online?
Do you want to point us to that free my grapes? Is that the url
you’d like to use or what would you like to point us to?
Dan: 56:59 You know, we, we help, we help create freemygrapes many,
many years ago to build that conser support for direct conser
delivery, which I think will happen happen soon. , but you can
also find us at a, on twitter @Cva wine, or you can find me
@Danpaszkowski, on twitter, or you can visit our
[email protected] to get all kinds of
information or, or thoughts and perspectives from myself or our
organization.
Natalie: 57:28 That’s awesome. So folks, stay tuned. I’m, I’ve got more for you
after we wished in a, a good evening. But Dan, I raised my glass,
my Canadian, my glass of Canadian Pino Noir from Tantalus.
You’ve got the reisling. I’ve got the Pinot Noir. And , thank you
for such a great chat, like so many great insights and a folks take
action on what we’ve talked tonight I talked about tonight
because you know, the talk isn’t worth anything unless we act
www.freemygrapes.ca, All right Dan, thank you so much for
spending part of your Sunday evening with us. I really
appreciate it.
Dan: 58:06 Alright, thanks for the invitation. It was a, it was a lot of fun and
, enjoy your Sunday evening. All
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