#acofas interpretation

[natureboy96]

SJM, ACOTAR, Authorial Intent and what's "fair" to criticize/validate

So, the title of this post is, while accurate, a bit vague. I decided to put my two cents out on this because, since I joined the ACOTAR fandom a few months ago, I've found a lot of very harsh words being flung one way or another, largely based around the characters of the book or the direction people believe SJM has taken/will take the narrative. There's also been a lot of rather nasty attacks on people for their takes, their ships, and their criticism. I'm not an expert on writing, but I thought it worth having a proper, fleshed out discussion on these topics.

Author's Intent vs Reader's Interpretation

When it comes to understanding a text and gaining meaning from it, Author's Intent and Reader's Interpretation are generally the two fields which are subscribed to. Authorial Intent argues that the meaning of a text should be derived by what the author wanted the reader to take from it, and that a text is inherently connected to the intent of the author; for example, because SJM doesn't put as much emphasis on certain side characters, the reader shouldn't consider them important. Or, that SJM and the narrative intend and clearly state that the IC and Rhysand are the good guys, it only makes sense to view them as such. Reader's Interpretation posits that texts are meant to be interacted with, and that the meaning people can derive from them is subjective, because individuals have different life experiences and perspectives which can lead them to understand a text in different ways; A reader can see Rhysand's actions as hypocritical based on their interpretations of what he did and how in ACOSF. Or, coming at the text with a different understanding on trauma or sexuality, a reader can come away from a text finding Tamlin to be a more sympathetic character than hateful one. Both of these arguments have existed for decades, if not longer. And the thing is...

Neither of these are wrong or right ways to read a text

There is no "one right way" to engage with or criticize a text! If you believe that SJM is a bad writer because she uses characters as plot points rather than giving them actual growth/retcons things as needed for her narrative, or that Tam’s actions have earned him his redemption, that is a valid assessment based on what you read in a text. If you think Lucien and Elain have no chance because Elain has on multiple times been shown being friendly, even intimate (not romantic intimate, just close) with Azriel and that the author seems to hint towards a rejected mating bond, that is a valid assessment too. Anything in a text, written, implied or intended, is a valid avenue of criticism.

At the same time, people are fully allowed to have their own head cannons and fanfics about characters outside the written narrative. Just because SJM wants you to ship Feysand, doesn’t mean you can’t write or ship TamlinxRhysand, or Gwynriel or Rhysta. Art, including text, is open to interpretation and you are allowed to make it your own too, even if the text itself makes it clear it’ll never happen. Hell, shipping Elain and Tamlin because they both like flowers is entirely valid! Fan fiction and ships don’t have to be defended by the text/author’s intent, they are your own creation and can be based on whatever you want! Have fun, go crazy with em.

What isn’t ok for criticism

You can criticize the actions and choices and motivations of a book character all you want, using whichever method of critique you want. If you want to call Rhysand a pedo because he came to a pic of his child, you can make that take. If you call Tamlin a serial abuser who brought everything on himself, you can make that take.

What isn’t ok, is using your takes to criticize the people who disagree with you.

(These are just a few examples I’ve seen in the last few days, but I’m pretty sure everyone in this fandom has seen personal attacks along these lines, some far worse than the ones I grabbed. It’s also not a matter of degrees of bad faith criticism, all of these are of the same vein and one isn’t more ‘valid’ than others because it wasn’t as harsh.) Believing Rhysand is a pedo doesn’t make it ok to call people who like him the same. Believing Lucien is a terrible person doesn’t make someone who likes him a person of questionable morals. Having a different method of criticizing a text doesn’t make someone else’s different way of approaching the text wrong.

At the end of the day, these characters, this world, this narrative are all constructs, not people. You are not Feyre, you are not Tamlin, you are not Rhysand or a Valkyrie or Elain or Cassian. You do not deserve to be judged for the actions of fictional characters, and you should not be judged for your opinions on these characters either. And you need to let others have differing opinions on characters, even ones you dislike intensely.

Let people like the characters they want to like, let people criticize the characters they don’t like (or the ones they do) and for fuck’s sake, don’t take it or make it personal.

[viktoriaashleyyx]

Why do some of us not *hate* Tamlin?

I am pro-tamlin, not pro feylin. I would prefer Tamlin to never have to deal with the NC ever again. If SJM never types his name out again I will be happy.

Tw: light mentions to DV, SA, and Divorce.

Feyre is written in a way that makes it feel like she is intentionally manipulating us against Tamlin to justify her leaving him the way she did, and to put Rhysand up on a pedestal.

The abrupt and sloppy way SJM handled Tamlins' character assassination induced my fight or flight. Let me explain:

My parents divorced when I was 4, and I had to learn, quickly, how to interpret people's true intentions and empathize with where they are coming from vs just blindly listening to someones account of what happened. My father got custody of us and would use the same elements against my mom that Feyre uses against Tamlin. I HAVE to read between the lines or I would fall to the intentional manipulation.

"She left me so she probably cheated" "he trapped me in the house" "she has a new boyfriend so she doesn't care about you anymore" "he hit me [when I was actively TRYING to get him to hit me to sway public opinion of him]"

Everytime Feyre left for the NC, she did so kicking and screaming. Every indication Tamlin could see was that she did NOT want to go with Rhys, until he gets a letter from her saying to not come looking for her that she doesn't want to be with him. Tamlin didn't know she could read or write. Had that been my love I would assume it was a ransom note too, written by someone else. Had she actually spent 1 hr winnowing to Tamlin, tell him face to face, then winnow back (with an escort) he MIGHT have gotten the hint.

A tithe was a weird thing to use to show how cruel Tamlin is, considering how 2/3 of the night court live in constant fear, children's bones are broken for misbehaving, the CoN are trapped there. SJM really showed us that she has no political knowledge what so ever. I barely started ACOFAS and when Feyres talking about the unnatural sum of her money, my first thought is "You don't amass that level of wealth without oppressing someone." Lucien said that Tamlin would be expected to hunt down those not able to pay the tithe, but when we get to Tamlins actual actions he just said "get it together in 3 days or pay double next time". In my initial reading, I interpreted it as another mask (like how Rhysand acts). Tamlin does this due to tradition, he is expected to act a certain way, but *I felt* he had no intention of acting out what he said. It was just a line he was expected to say to send the wraith away without others expecting the same.

Feyre and Tamlin were not right for eachother because they were not eachothers mates. People can exist fine separately, and be incredibly toxic together. From page 1 we see Feyres inherent inability to empathize with anyone, she has it bad, she has to hunt, therefore her sisters don't do anything. But she also can't cook, so who was preparing the meat she brought home? It gave me "housework isn't real work" vibes. Feyre also doesn't communicate very well, which would explain why a literal mind reader was able to help her better than Tamlin was. I saw Tamlin trying but not being able to help her because he couldn't read her mind.

Feyre didn't want to be trapped in a manor for a few hours while she was displaying manic behavior, but she condoned her sisters be trapped in the HOW for 6 weeks immediately after losing their lives. She condones the treatment of the people in Hewn city and supports the literal Jim Crow laws placed against them in Velaris when all they wanted was to leave. She condones and supports trapping Nesta in HoW after the war just to force Cassain on her so Feyre can play matchmaker.

Feyre is an inherently self centered sociopath. She can read minds and still can't develop a shred of empathy.

Just leave Tamlin alone. Damn.

[nikachansstuff]

Is Elriel a sad pairing? (More about relaying on canon and logic vs personal opinion and interpretation)

Another day and here we are fighting in the trenches for our couple 🤺

Let’s debunk another take with our favorite device canon and logic.

Personal interpretation from a post I just came across:

Hm… let’s see if this checks out?

“I’d feel bad for the mice,’ Azriel muttered. Mor and Cassian howled, earning a blush from Azriel and a grateful smile from Elain—and no shortage of scowling from Amren. But something in me eased at that laughter, at the light that returned to Elain’s eyes.”

ACOFAS

Bringing joy and light in Elain’s eyes.

‘Oh, that’s from me.’

Azriel’s face didn’t so much as shift at the words. Not even a smile as he opened the present and revealed -

‘I had Madja make it for me,’ Elain explained. Azriel’s brows narrowed at the mention of the family’s preferred healer. ‘It’s a powder to mix in with any drink.’

Silence.

Elain bit her lip and then smiled sheepishly. ‘It’s for the headaches everyone always gives you. Since you rub your temples so often.’

Silence again.

Then Azriel tipped his head back and laughed. I’d never heard such a sound, deep and joyous.”

ACOFAS

So we even have an italicized laugh in the original text. The sound so unique is the first time Feyre hears it in 3 books. And who is responsible for it? Elain!

“Azriel mastered himself enough to say, ‘Thank you.’ I’d never seen his hazel eyes so bright, the hues of green amid the brown and gray like veins of emerald. ‘This will be invaluable.’”

ACOFAS

Azriel’s eyes never looked so bright. This spymaster who is known to have the best poker face completely cracks because of a gag gift from Elain.

Two small, bean-shaped fabric blobs lay within. Elain murmured, "You put them in your ears, and they block any sound. With Nesta and Cassian living there with you..."

He chuckled, unable to suppress the impulse. "No wonder you didn't want me to open it in front of everyone."

Elain’s mouth twitched into a smile. "Nesta wouldn't appreciate the joke.”

He offered her a smile back.

Azriel bonus chapter

Look at this two making sex jokes about another couple sex’s life. Elain is comfortable enough to give another funny gift and again, Azriel is unable to suppress his laughter.

Where does this pairing sounds sad, guys? I swear I get so confused by these takes because the author sure took her time to show us how these two make each other happy.

I have a feeling they will make each other really happy in the next book.

[fauxdette]

Genuine Q: How have some readers interpreted Azriel as some pervy, love-obsessed, creep?

ACOMAF

Elain said to Azriel, perhaps the only two civilized ones here

Though she’d probably cling to Azriel, just to have some peace and quiet.

ACOWAR

"Azriel is the only polite one." "Don't even try to pretend that it's not true." "Of course it's true,"

"Azriel has never once said anything that awful.”

"I know you're not Illyrian, but ... amongst their kind, it is considered... inappropriate to touch someone's wings without permission. Especially females." [asking permission to touch Feyre’s wings]

Relax,’ Rhys said. ‘Azriel isn’t the ravishing type.’

ACOFAS

"He is Elain's mate. It would be an invasion of her privacy to track him."

"Sit. I'll take care of it."

"Wait until everyone is seated before eating."

Every interaction with Nesta!!!

like, did we all read the same books??

[nobibiname]

Elain’s potatoes and protective shadows

Thinking about Elriel again … and this scene :

"Don't," Elain said flatly, starting once more into a walk, veils of steam drifting past her shoulders from the roasted rosemary potatoes in her hands, as if they were Azriel's shadows. "She won't listen." ACOFAS ch12

My reading of this used to be

“girl can’t even hold a dish of potatoes w/o reminders of the shadowboy”, 😏

which I still kinda think 😏 but then I realized, she’s actually mad at (frustrated? Upset with?) Nesta in this scene. And that makes this scene a whole lot deeper than it does at a cursory glance.

This is actually a perfect mirror of another scene where Elain also experiences distress from her relationship with Nesta:

“Nesta saw the blow land, like a physical impact, in Elain’s face, her posture. No one spoke, though shadows gathered in the corners of the room, like snakes preparing to strike.” ACOSF ch21

So what we learn in this scene is Azriel’s shadows are prepared to defend Elain the way their master does, whether the distress is physical or emotional. It’s not an accident the wording to Nesta’s insult is “a blow”, we’re reminded of a physical attack.

But what about the first scene in ACOFAS? What’s the connection bw the steam and his shadows when Azriel is not even there… yet.

This is the exact scene when she walks into the dining room and he takes over the potatoes

“Sit, I’ll take care of it”

Which is when he takes the dish from her.

But what is he taking care of exactly? Just the physical load of the dish, or perhaps also the emotional load shes carrying from her broken heart over Nesta’s dark period, as symbolized by the steam (another word for anger) coming off of the potatoes?

My interpretation of this scene is, the potatoes are the Elriel version of Nessian’s “whatever you throw at me, I can take it”.

Vs Elriel

“Whatever you’re carrying, I can help”

And that is the reason Elain’s unspoken anger, symbolized by the steam from the dish she made, is being compared to his shadows. He’s here, and he’s willing to take care of it, and he does it again, instinctively, in ACOSF

I know there’s other interpretations of this scene, but I like this one🩵 hope y’all enjoy 😉

[coeurdelain]

Do gwynriels know how illogical they sound when they say that Az and Gwyn are mates and then, say the next book is about them ?

It’s simply impossible because if you think that the bonus chapter shows that Gwyn and Az are mates, their book CAN’T be the next one.

And this is why :

This interview is from a court of frost and starlight special edition.

In this interview SJM said she knows who the next book is about after Nesta and Cassian but for the last novel and the last novella, she’s keeping the door open. So, at this time, she only knew what she wanted to write after Nesta and Cassian.

So, if it was Gwynriel and Elucien who were endgame because they are mates, SJM wouldn’t have said that she leaves the door open for other ideas, because the last novel would be about Lucien and Elain, so she would have known who the last book is about. Especially knowing that Elain is the only one with a book confirmation since 2015. So, of course, if Elain was the last novel with Lucien, SHE WOULD HAVE KNOW.

It’s not even a question about ships, but it’s about Elain’s book being the next one. If you think that Gwynriel are mates, you CAN’T say the next book is about Gwyn and Az. It’s also why I think Gwyn and Azriel are not mates. Because in a interview for acosf, she said that when she was writing ACOWAR, she told to her editor her plans for Nesta, Cassian, Elain, Mor and Azriel. And that’s the reason why we have three more books.

So, she already knew who was Azriel’s LI. She had plans for him. And Gwyn didn’t even exist yet. And that’s why it’s clear to say that Gwyn was only brought to be Nesta’s friend. SJM had finished writing ACOFAS but she still didn't know about Gwyn. She didn’t have Gwyn in her mind when she wrote ACOFAS. There was no book planned for Gwyn, there was no LI for Gwyn and no mating bond for Gwyn. If in her plans, Gwyn and Azriel was supposed to be mates, she couldn't have said that she leaves the door open to other ideas, she would have no choice but to write about them.

Because, once again, if it was Gwynriel (ACOTAR5) and Elucien (ACOTAR6), SHE WOULD HAVE KNOW who the last book is about. But no, at this point, she had no idea who the last novel will be about. The only thing she knows for sure while she was writing ACOFAS is Elain will have a book like a sister.

In conclusion, it makes no sense at all if you think that Gwyn and Azriel are mates and then, say that the next book is about them. You can’t have both. If you think they are mates, then it will be the last novel and not the next one.

Like ship whoever you want but denying the fact that the next book is about Elain is crazy.

Even if I actually know why some people still don’t want to accept that Elain’s book is next. It means that Azriel is Elain’s love interest. So they are the real endgame. Because SJM said that she was excited to write about Azriel’s journey but never said anything about Lucien’s journey.

You can make your own interpretation of the books if you want, but you can't deny what SJM herself says.

And a friendly reminder that SJM didn’t change her plans. She confirmed it during the ACOSF’s tour.

I made this post because sometimes I see people with a lot of confidence say « Gwyn and Az’s book is next and they are mates ». And I’m just shocked because why are you so confident when everything shows that it's not possible ?

(I did a lot of repetition and mistakes in this post so I feel the need to precise that english is not my first language)

[8bitrosethorn]

I’m going to say something bold: I know who the next ACOTAR books will follow and in what order.

Sarah J Maas told us already. And I have receipts. Not from interviews or old screenshots or interpretations, but actual receipts. From the books.

Starting with A Court of Frost and Starlight’s description on SJM’s site:

We know that ACOFAS bridges the events for the series. And the first novel post ACOFAS is A Court of Silver Flames, which focuses on Nesta and Cassian.

So let’s dive deeper…

THE EVIDENCE

Exhibit 1

In Chapter 2, we have Rhysand’s conversation with Cassian asking a very important question of Cassian: Are you … happy?

Cassian is the first character to be asked if they were happy and gave a response that showed a need for character growth, one that Rhysand observed and wanted to support.

And whose book, along with his love interest, was first in the upcoming novels in the series? Cassian and Nesta’s.

The first character to be asked Are you happy? was the first character to find his happiness in the first spin-off novel.

Exhibit 2

In Chapter 12, the question is again repeated, this time from Feyre to Elain, who asks her sister: Are you—all right?

Elain is now the second character to be asked if they were “happy/all right” and respond in such a way that indicates that no, they aren’t fully all right but they want to try. 

Elain’s book will be next as she is the second person to be asked the question by our narrators, Feyre and Rhysand. Who also happen to be SJM's stand-ins for propelling the narrative in ACOFAS.

Exhibit 3

And finally, in Chapter 18, Feyre and Mor are catching up Solstice morning and the subject of Elain and Nesta is discussed:

Feyre wants to “fix everything” for Nesta and Elain aka help them find their happiness (which is later supported by the Feysand’s infamous “let's focus on helping one sister before we start on the other” from their ACOSF Bonus Chapter, but I digress).

But they won't find their happiness in ACOFAS. The sisters must find it in their books, which Nesta did with Cassian in his.

And then for a third and final time, it’s now Mor’s turn to hear the same question, this time from Feyre: And you—are you happy?

Mor isn’t ready to answer honestly. At least, not yet. Because her time will come. In her book. Which will be third.

Which leads me to...

CONCLUSION

SJM gave us the order of the ACOTAR sequel series when she had Feyre and Rhysand ask their closest companions: Are you happy?

And what order were they asked?

Cassian. Then Elain. Then Mor. 

And that’s the order we will get our answers. In their books. First, second, then third.

See you soon, Elain Archeron and Mor 🌸❤️

[nikethestatue]

I've heard people in the fandom say 'Elriels are obsessed with canon', and really, my response would be--others aren't obsessed enough with canon. The issue that I've observed this whole time in this fandom is that many rely too much on their own personal (selective) memories of what happened or didn't happen in the books, or on the word of others (who may or may not be correct themselves).

Just in a past couple of weeks I've seen a person arguing vehemently that SJM never said 'Lord of Fire and Bird of Flame' until someone finally send a screenshot from the book, only to respond 'well, I don't remember it that way!' or someone posting that the sisters ATE a Fae (Andras). They didn't eat Andras. They ate a deer.

Another stated that they 'REMEMBERED' Helion telling Feyre and Rhys that he was mates with LoA and that she rejected the bond.

Not to forget the classic: don't read ACOFAS because it's not needed! (or is it because it sets up the ship you don't like?)

I say--BE obsessed with Canon.

And no, not including entire parts, or skipping Elain's bits, or not reading the first part of Azriel's POV because 'it's icky' or stating that he was OOC, or saying 'that's my interpretation' is not actually...interpretation of text. It's just wishful thinking, selective reading and fanoning.

Be. Obsessed. With. Canon.

[hereathemoment]

Imagine writing a romance story where the protagonist isn’t even given an “I love you”

That shit was so abusive. Why did Nesta have to all-of-a-sudden see herself as worthless in ACOFAS for her to fall in love with ACOSF Cassian… either let her hate the IC in peace or give her a love interest in a different court. This “romance” was a character assassination of Cassian and Nesta. It’s never been more obvious that sjm pulls canon out of her ass as she goes.

“Everyone f*cking hates you”

“I didn’t ask to be shackled to you”

‘My best friend wants you dead so let’s add physical abuse on top of my verbal abuse’

And then for Nesta to think about how she doesn’t deserve him??????????????????

She is forced to train, is forced to participate in the rite, and yet is the only one of her friends to not pass because she is ATTACKED by her (possessed) mate??????????!?

And on top of all of that…. She loses her powers in the end??? The powers that weren’t even explored after they served their purpose in the war and for finding things….

I’m sorry but SJM needs therapy. God forbid a woman not be nice

Nesta deserves to be with someone who makes her feel relaxed, protected, and happy. That’s kinda the bare minimum in a relationship… and instead she’s constantly fighting for her life in the group chat (is yelled at by the IC), is always tense, and was written to be absolutely broken mentally

Personally, I don’t think Nesta would have started drinking and sleeping around after the war. Although she would have distanced herself from the IC for their abusive behavior, I think she would have clung to any traits that were reminiscent of her human life. Everything happened so fast I don’t think she’d be ready to have sex with any man let alone fae. She would have clung to all of the things that make her a Lady like she did as a child in the cabin. Her whole personality is based on being proud and regal and stoic. She’s a suffer in silence type if ever there was one. She clung to a tiny figurine her father made when everyone would have interpreted her as hating her father. I know that girl has trust issues— she’s not blacking out and taking random men into her home (especially when she can smell them the next morning). ACOSF was genuinely hard to stomach.

[acourtofthought]

4 Books of Buildup is not something E/riels and E/riels alone get to claim.

Yes, there have been moments in ACOMAF through SF that put the idea of E/riel into your head. Feyre thinking on how "handsome" they'd be together (literally the most shallow reason in existence for someone pairing two people but I digress), Az helping Feyre rescue Elain in ACOWAR, him offering Elain TT, Az sitting with Elain and listening to her talk about her seeds in ACOFAS, their "charged" look in SF and depending on the day and argument about whether the BC counts, their near kiss.

Yet between every single one of those moments, there is another love for Elain or Az or both. Elain was in love with Graysen in ACOMAF through ACOFAS. Az was still hung up on Mor, even in SF. He was happy not to stay and guard Elain, later helped rescue Elain then went on to look at Mor with heat and yearning on Solstice. He gave Elain TT but only because Mor begged him to sit out of battle. He was relieved that he was not expected to get Elain a gift that first year.

In all of those 4 books though, Elain and Lucien are confirmed mates. Confirmed by the King, by Feyre, by Rhys, by Az, by Mor, by Elain, by Graysen, by Lucien, by Eris.

It is CANON that they are mates. The "4 books of E/riel moments" are canon too however it being love is heavily debated because neither Elain or Az have confirmed it to be that. There is NOTHING in canon that unequivocally states she wants a relationship with him, that she wishes he were her mate, that he is completely over Mor, that he would take Elain without a mating bond.

In comparison, there is CANON showing Elain and Lucien are mates. Lucien calls her his mate, Az confirms their bond can be scented, she makes sure Graysen knows Lucien's name when Graysen is referring to her mate, Lucien acknowledges the real thread between them and Elain confirms she felt it too.

Could SJM decide to pull a fast one over on us in the next book and reveal the mating bond as fake? Sure, because she can do whatever she wants as the author however at this point in time, Elucien being mates is more canon than E/riel actually being in love. And to those who claim Elucien's bond will turn out to be fake, that the 4 books of proof of an Elucien mating bond can easily be undone in the next ACOTAR, then can't we say the exact same of E/riel? That the 4 books of "open to interpretation" interactions of E/riel could also easily be undone (I think they kind of already were in the BC but that's another discussion).

If a storyline which was confirmed (once again) by Feyre, Rhys, Az, Cassian, Mor, the KoH, Eris, and the author herself in interviews can be magicked away after 4 books of Elain and Lucien's arcs being built around that narrative, that it could suddenly be proven as fake, then how is anyone arguing against how the unconfirmed love between E/riel (of which no characters are even aware of considering Nesta called Az Gwyn's new ribbon and Rhys told him to find a hooker instead) can be even more easily deconstructed?

If it's that easy to undo a confirmed mating bond then anything hinting at Elain and Az is a house of cards in comparison.

[natureboy96]

My journey through the Court of Thorns and Roses series

It’s been roughly a month since I started reading the ACOTAR series, and let me tell you, it’s been one mad ride. I’ve had a lot of thoughts on the books, and I needed to put them down somewhere to hopefully stop them from rattling around in my brain for much longer (success tbd). While I am writing this more for myself than anyone else, I wondered if anyone else went through a similar journey that I have, and perhaps help understand why people view the series as they do. I’ll be going book by book to break things down.

(Also might be worth mentioning that I am a gay man in my thirties, which definitely impacted how I read certain parts of the books..)

ACOTAR

Having come into the series with absolutely no hints as to what it was about (besides the back blurb), I actually found this first book… kinda boring? I was surprised, I suppose, to see it was a Beauty and the Beast retelling, but that actually made me look forward more to where things actually deviated from the script (I texted my sister it was around chapter 30 that I felt things really getting interesting).

That’s not to say I didn’t enjoy parts of it - the more intimate moments between Tamlin and Feyre were what I liked most, like them dancing together after he played, or him appreciating that painting that made him not feel alone, moments like those. A bit stilted writing, perhaps, but fine.

When we went Under the Mountain, though, that’s when my interest picked up. I felt the fear that Tamlin and Feyre felt, knowing one wrong move could be their last. I felt terribly icky at the things Feyre was manipulated to do; maybe I can see how people might think her dancing black out drunk in a napkin could be a sexy fantasy, but it definitely didn’t do it for me, nor the bone twisting. The trials themselves felt… underwhelming (the worm was some exciting action that our Feyre’s skills to use at least, but the second one was kinda meh), but I was interested in seeing a story where the main character actually experiences some lasting impact of trauma, something I feel a lot of books gloss over. Seeing what Feyre and Tamlin were willing to sacrifice for each other also helped solidify their relationship for me. I went into the second book excited to see how it was handled, and to see what kind of character Rhysand proved to be, after his UtM admissions and actions…

ACOMAF

I was into this text a lot quicker than the previous one, no doubt because of what I mentioned about seeing actual consequences for trauma. I didn’t expect to see so much of Tamlin’s trauma as I did, but I appreciated seeing even a high lord couldn’t walk away from something like what happened without damage. I definitely felt the tragedy of what happened to their relationship, seeing how trauma warped and changed the way they were to the point where they no longer fit, and I was glad Feyre was able to leave.

That brings us to what I thought was the best point, seeing Feyre get the space and patience and support she needed to heal, from Rhysand and the rest of the Inner Court. Like the first book, some parts felt a bit stilted to me, but seeing her gain back her confidence and work through the pain Amarantha had dealt was with satisfying. Having her find a group she came to care for and a place she felt safe was wonderful.

I couldn’t say I saw the end twists coming, and I was definitely shocked to see Tamlin siding with an evil king who wanted to bring back slavery; after what I knew of him in the first book, it felt to me like there had to be more going on, and I immediately started the next book after finishing this one in 3 days.

I was also quite interested in Elain and Nesta’s changes too, I hadn’t expected them to be big characters after the first book, but it makes sense to tie them together - and give some fun stuff to work with in the next book.

ACOWAR

Unlike the last book, I finished this one in two days :p

I enjoy a lot of politics and intrigue in my books, so I enjoyed hearing about a lot of the planning that went into preparing for the upcoming war. I enjoyed hearing Feyre’s thoughts and plans for the Spring Court, and I was glad Lucien was able to escape with her - I haven’t mentioned him much but I have enjoyed his character quite a bit. I loved getting to meet with the other high lords and see the Dawn Court, though I found it odd how easily everyone seemed to lose their temper at what was supposed to be a diplomatic meeting. I read Tamlin’s words as being sheer bitterness, but I was glad to hear he hadn’t betrayed everyone blindly and had a plan.

The end of the book was a bit of a shock twist page after page, and I couldn’t put it down. Dads coming out of nowhere with an army only to die a few pages later? Monsters joining the fight only to get murked? Elain pulling an Arya Stark stabbing on the big baddie? The only surprise I had been expecting was Akeem’s transformation; I felt the biblical angel clues were strong enough to expect an angel of death when she changed.

I didn’t like the fakeout Rhysand death. It felt like it was tacked on for a bit more milked drama, only to be undone moments later. What I did love was how the end of the story gave Tamlin the chance to save both Feyre and Rhysand, despite everything that they had done to each other. I had hoped it was the chance for them to start healing that rift, not expecting them to be friends or in love again, but respectful at least..

Also some questionable choices for sexy scenes, but again, I kinda didn’t read too much into em, not my thing.

ACOFAS

This is where something changed with my thoughts on the text. I thought it was a nice “Christmas” story, and I enjoyed seeing where and how people were preparing for it with each other. I felt for Nesta, and as hard as it was to see where she was I didn’t feel she was ready for healing from her trauma yet, and was interested to see where it went. Wasn’t as big a fan of people talking down to Lucien, but that wasn’t the real issue I had here…

Rhysand’s visits to Tamlin may have been brief, but they struck a really unpleasant note in an otherwise nice little story. I had come to see Rhysand as a good person over the books, over what he had said and did. I couldn’t like that up, though, with the way he treated Tamlin in this book. I didn’t expect them to be friends, or even like each other, but I couldn’t understand how Rhysand could be so cruel to a person who had saved not only his life (even though I could have easily seen him not doing so), but Feyre’s, Elaine’s and Azriel’s lives too, and in doing so played a crucial part in saving the whole world. How could someone see this person who is clearly broken and so alone, and beat him down further? And then to come back and see what state he was in, and essentially suicide bait him while making him a steak? It was such a harsh and cruel thing to do that it took me right out of the text, and I took some time with that thought in my head.

AFTER READING

I had been planning to jump into Silver Flames right away, but the sour taste of how Tamlin was treated in the last book was really bothering me, and I needed to share my thoughts with someone. None of my friends had read the books, so I turned online to see what people thought, and… I have to admit, I was shocked at the level of sheer vitriol directed in Tamlin’s direction. If this was after the second book, I could see some of it, but undoubtedly most people who were sharing their dislike of his character had read all the books, even past what I read. It didn’t make sense to me, that someone we knew was a kind and good person in the first book, who was warped by trauma and bitterness in the second but helped save our main characters in the third, only to be kicked while he was down, was so incredibly hated? The more I read, the more confused and honestly frustrated I started feeling. It was as if there was nothing good in his character, who quite objectively did quite a few good things!

Until I had read ACOFAS, I had taken everything as it had been delivered to me, through Feyre’s thoughts and words. Hell, I was so into it after the second book I went and bought the coloring pages and some very expensive pens! After, though, I began rereading parts of the texts in a more critical lens, trying to somehow connect the cruelty I’d read and felt with people’s words online, with what I thought was the point of the text, of healing through trauma, and how I has liked the various characters.

It was around then that I found I wasn’t the only one who had similar thoughts and feelings towards Tamlin’s character and how he was treated in the narrative, and the fandom. I noticed some things I had missed before, where Feyre’s perspective of Tamlin had shifted to make his character from the first book worse in the second and third. Not even inconsistencies in terms of character traits changing, but points where events in the first book were quite blatantly retconned in a different view entirely, and then for people to ignore the former for the latter because it made Tamlin worse. The more that I started looking, the more issues I started picking up, issues of characters being held to different standards by both the character in text, and the people reading them.

Now, a month out from reading the books, I think it’s become very clear that the author intended for people to strongly dislike Tamlin’s character, and for a lot of people, the author’s intention is enough to accept that view. When it comes to writing, though, an author’s intention ends with the words they put down, adding clarifying statements afterwards can help show their intention, but the intent is the same. Readers, then, are free to interpret a text how they will; not everyone is going to get the same experience from a story as everyone else, because people are individuals with their own outlooks on the world they bring to a text. Just because one agrees with the author’s intention with a text doesn’t make other’s differing interpretations less valid. People don’t have to like Tamlin’s character for all the reasons the author tells you, but that doesn’t make criticism of the view wrong, or bad. People who criticize the author’s choices and the actions of characters in a text are as valid as the author’s choice to write them in the first place. I’ve come away from this feeling Tamlin’s character has been “done dirty”, whether the author intended for me to have that opinion (she clearly didn’t). That doesn’t make my viewpoint less valid, just different, and based in the same text other interpretations come from.

In the end, I’ve come down from the obsessed high I had with the series, and I’ve settled on having very mixed feelings overall. Once my interpretation of the earlier texts had changed, it kinda rusted some of the luster the books had had in my mind and added a more critical, negative undercurrent to things I had seen as entirely good before. For me, that actually makes them more interesting, and I like the idea of talking about and debating points of a text and how they can be interpreted. I don’t know if I could recommend the series to other people, though, what with the feelings I’ve had towards the actual texts and the fandom around them. I will probably be invested still for a time longer, though - whether I read Silver Flames (the takes I’ve seen online are veeery mixed, but perhaps my take would be different than what I’ve seen) or the next book afterwards, it’s been a real and novel experience diving headfirst into it all.

[shadowqueenjude]

As admirable as Nesta’s efforts to protect Elain are (🥹) have any of them actually borne fruit?

Like she tried to protect Elain from Tamlin in the cabin but ultimately it was Feyre who saved them by agreeing to go with Tamlin.

Then uhhhh it was Hybern? I suppose? Well they threw Elain in first and she survived with Seer powers so she didn’t rly do anything there.

Then it was in ACOWAR when she was talking about Elain and how she wouldn’t sleep or eat and all that good shit, but the IC didn’t do anything about it until Elain’s mate Lucien demanded it.

As for saving Elain from being kidnapped? That was Feyre and Azriel. Not Nesta.

Then Nesta tried to protect them all by acting as bait for the King of Hybern but ultimately it was Elain who bailed them all out by stabbing the dude.

Then in ACOFAS she was dealing with shit, so I don’t blame her for cutting everyone off, but all Nesta did for Elain there is give her major attachment issues, a mountain of insecurity, and loneliness.

Then in ACOSF I suppose you could interpret her scrying for Elain, but all that did was make Elain feel useless, unappreciated, and weak. Coddled. Ignored. Suffocated.

(honestly the more I think about it how tf did nesta and rhysand not bond over their collective failures to protect their families)

I love Nesta, but when some Nesta stans act like Elain needs to be “grateful to Nesta” for what tho?😭 All her efforts to protect her have either been useless or counterproductive.

[songofthesibyl]

Just saw yet another post where Tamlin is listed as being worse than Amarantha, and I’m truly getting tired.

The uneven application of morals and logic—not even in the books, but within the fandom—is so blatant, so over-the-top, that I would say it’s trolling, but it’s not been just people stalking the -anti tags to troll people, it’s within original posts, and friendly reblogs as well. Being annoyed that they would be judged, that people would dismiss their trauma and experiences for liking or not liking a character. And then turning around and saying, about people who like Tamlin or Nesta, that they must not know what real love is, that they must have been abused and liked it, questioning their morals, that they are “abuser apologists,” that they should be studied, should go choke, be shamed, that they would be the kind of people to defend Harvey Weinstein, over and over and over. And then these same people get annoyed when people don’t like Rhysand or the IC, and say people take these books too seriously, that it’s just faerie smut, that they are just fictional characters and it’s silly to see them as more than that. Then pulling Tamlin out of the narrative so he is a real human man and not a fictional 500+ year old faerie. Tamlin’s magic exploding is akin to a real world situation. Rhysand’s magic exploding is fantasy violence. There is no objective truth here. This is all based on people’s opinions. Canon is canon, but everyone has a slightly different version of that canon character because they are made-up characters, and not real people. It’s all in someone’s head. And whatever is not on the page is open to interpretation unless it later gets defined in canon. But it never stays limited to literary critique, or character analysis. It always goes to judgment, bullying, mocking, and harassment of actual people. Every time. It’s been like this since I started being in this fandom, and it remains incredibly pervasive, and I simply don’t get what’s so attractive about it, what’s fun about it, why this is the particular form of wasting time that people prefer. And I don’t know why it still bothers me when I know it’s going to happen every time I enter a social space.

I am deeply frustrated by Rhysand as a character right now, but I don’t hate him. I don’t wish he had stayed dead, I don’t want to write fanfic of him suffering. I actually thought I might like ACOMAF the most out of the first three books for awhile even though I didn’t hate Tamlin. I felt for Feyre in her panic attack in ACOMAF, I felt for Tamlin in ACOFAS. I think his and Rhysand’s history is one of the most interesting unexplored parts of the story. I love the image of them standing facing each other as newly-made High Lords, the blood of each other’s families on their hands, one wreathed in shadow, the other crowned in light. It’s a great image. But all this bullshit just really makes me not want to participate anymore.

[wishcamper]

Just an unedited thought dump about Mor and The Buffer, scroll accordingly

Okay re: ACOFAS lingerie-gate, like let’s imagine Mor DIDNT know Nesta would be coming over for solstice. that’s still a very weird gift to ask for from a person you consider a brother?

Right? Like what was the thought process here, what’s the motivation? And then it’s a matching set? Why was this a thing you orchestrated, and who is it for? How were you so sure his dumb ass was gonna buy it? Is it because this weird psychosexual power play thing is just regular at this point? Why???????

I almost wish we got her POV bc I can’t think of any answers that don’t come across as either self-serving, creepy, or manipulative.

It totally goes both ways too, how cassian is like ‘she’s my sister, the most beautiful woman in the world who I’m definitely not attracted to’. I mean. Guys, it’s okay if you think the other one is hot but like.. get a grip.

It makes my head feel like a pretzel bc I at one time had a sort of Cass/Mor dynamic with a friend where there was chemistry and attraction but we both were not in a place to date and didn’t want to fuck up our genuine friendship, so it wasn’t worth it. But that shit doesn’t LAST like it’s 1000% a placeholder for a later relationship, which is shitty and if you’re both aware that’s what you’re doing it can be weirdly nice.

That’s the most charitable interpretation I can make of ACOFAS I guess, that this is just sort of a way they are with each other. Like Jake and Lainey in Sleeping With Other People (amazing movie if you haven’t seen it). Maybe they both want a sort of monogamy setup without the actual commitment while they wait to find their mates which seems to be a weirdly common thing in the ACOTAR world. Like I can only think of five couples in acotar and four of them are mates. Everyone else is a single Pringle until they get a book I guess.

Okay maybe you just watched me change my mind in real time. But the in front of their family part of it still doesn’t make sense, which is where I come back to the idea that the gifts are trying to communicate something, even though I don’t know what or to whom. And that just feels inherently manipulative, even if the effect is small. Alright end rant.

[romanticatheartt]

What do you think Rhys is referring to when he said Nesta is an Illyrian at heart in acofas? He says it’s a compliment but then he says that because of that, there is no excuse for her behavior. Is the behavior he is referring to how she treated Feyre? What would being an Illyrian at heart have to do with that?? It’s just something I was confused on while rereading acofas.

Note: I read these books more than 1.5 years ago and only reread the first book in February so I don't have enough evidence and what I'm saying is from what I remember. If anyone has a better answer to this I would love to hear it. My opinion is based on my own understanding so you don't have to agree<3

This is a very interesting question, one that I've never paid attention to before and it's the first time I noticed, because all this time I thought Rhysand meant she has a warrior soul, and later on, she got an Illyrian mate and now is warrior/Valkyrie. And it still can be interpreted as such but like I said I forgot in what context he said it, so I read that scene again:

And it reminded me of this scene:

People obviously got mad at this and told Mor to "get off her high horse" but they never bothered to stop and think why would she say it in the first place and what impression Nesta gave, for her to reach this conclusion.

The first time Mor and Nesta talk in acowar, Mor tries to be hospitable toward her and make friends with her. That's her personality, she did the same with Feyre as well.

But Nesta, instead of not saying anything at all if she's not in the mood for friendship, decides to question Mor's choice of dress. (in my vocabulary this is called sl*t shaming. Nesta was shaming Mor for her choice of dress) Now who also shamed Mor for her choice of lifestyle? Her father, Keir, who lives in the Court of Nightmare. She lived the first few years of her life there as well and she knows how those people are.

I also want to point to this scene at how CoN treat the women:

I know a while back people were "criticizing" Rhys for dressing Feyre like a "wh*re" (???) and asking why he got mad when Keir called her that... I'm not even gonna bother to prove how wrong and far from canon is but... I, personally, don't go around, looking people up and down and shaming them for the choice of their dress. A woman can be naked and I wouldn't call her *names* but ig that's just me... continuing:

Mor sees Nesta's behavior and the first thing she probably thinks of, is how her family treated her and still does. And from that stage of the book we don't see her being nice to Nesta at all. Nesta triggered something in her and that changed her opinion of her for the rest of the series.

Now Mor's reaction to Nesta is quite similar to Rhys'.

When Feyre asks why he's ok with Elain and not Nesta, he answers "Elain is Elain." Because she doesn't trigger anything for him. She just exists in his house and doesn't bother him or more importantly, his mate. On the other hand, he has witnessed how Nesta treats Feyre and his brother. How she's verbally abusing them.

And if you noticed Rhys was just like Mor when he met Nesta, He was polite. Because he had no reason not to be. But that changed the moment Nesta showed how she act towards Feyre.

I don't have any text evidence of this because I couldn't find it but I remember how Rhys said he was never respected among Illyrians. They're afraid of him and cowards, yes but he has heard the names they call him. They couldn't physically hurt him but they never stopped verbally expressing their feeling toward him. He was bullied by them. They called him "bastard" and "half-breed".

See, Nesta behaved toward both Rhys and Mor, the same way the people they hate so much and have bad memories of, did. Nesta reminds them of the people who gave them these traumas. Rhys hates Illyrians and Mor hates CoN citizens. I just realized both Rhys and Feyre have the same childhood trauma... God, they really are the same person lmao

So when Rhys says Nesta is an Illyrian and there's no excuse for her actions, it's because he sees Illyrians as hateful and full of rage creatures and there's no reason behind why they behave the way they do. And let's be honest that's how Nesta showed herself. I know some people will say he didn't understand and YES he didn't!! It's not his job to know what's wrong with her. The opposite can be said about her sisters and mate that they should've guessed but that's debatable. It's why later on we see how Nesta is full of anger and hatred and why she's the way she is because she explained it herself, we were in her pov and got to understand her.

And him saying "it's a compliment" can means that he can see some good in them, like his brothers. His mother and sister. He just hates their culture, their mindset that he's been trying to change for centuries and I think Nesta reminded him so much of them. That's why what he said is contrary of each other.

Anyway I think this is the only explanation because I don't see any other conclusion as to why he said that. But like I said if you have other things to add or disagree I would love to hear your thoughts. Sorry if I got carried away with Mor, I wanted to show the similarity in these two situations and have an example to explain better :D

Thank you anon for trusting me to answer your question lol I tried to answer as best as I could, I hope it helped with the confusion<33

[rahjasmine]

Amrens convo with Elain in acofas has always stood out to me. It’s about switching bodies essentially. It’s too hefty a conversation to mean nothing. So, after finishing hofas I was reminded of it again and I have an absolute crack theory that Elain will use the harp to essentially move Koschei’s soul back into his body so that he can be killed. The harp can move things through space and time, so why not a soul into a body? Furthermore, that act itself reeks of “life magic” and could be interpreted as “giving life”. Making Elain an opposite to Nesta’s pure death.

Also the poetry of killing the “deathless” by giving them life? That would be epic.