#acotar discourse

[limeandorange]

I just came to the conclusion that Cassian never fell in love with Nesta (and probably vice versa).

The destined mates trope is deeply flawed because if it’s not properly developed, it makes the relationship feel forced rather than organic. It removes the need for two people to truly connect, grow, and choose each other.

The reason ACOMAF works so well (enough to make us dismiss its problems) is because Feyre falls in love with Rhys before she knows about the bond. We see them falling for each other—the banter, the vulnerability, the slow realization, the giggling and kicking feet effect.

But in ACOSF? There’s no falling in love moment. No deep conversation where they truly get to know one another, no softness, no spark, no moment of sudden shyness or realization. Just forced proximity, fights, and sex.

No wonder he never said he loved her—because he actually doesn’t.

[titaniaqueenoffairie]

Are All High Lords Equally Powerful?

Logically, the High Lords should be on a relatively equal level. Even if there are differences, they shouldn’t be that drastic—just small variations based on their court’s magic. But the way ACOTAR handles power levels is all over the place.

Rhysand once said that if him and Tamlin, two High Lords fought, it would be an absolute catastrophe. Like, "Under the Mountain will collapse" levels of destruction. That makes it sound like they’re all these god-tier powerhouses who can wreck worlds if they really go at it.

But then we get Tamlin grabbing Beron (one of the oldest and for sure battle-experienced High Lords) by the neck and dragging him to war. And Beron just... lets it happen? The same guy who thrives on scheming and cruelty, who should be able to put up a fight? Make it make sense.

Honestly, the inconsistencies in power scaling between the High Lords make it hard to take seriously. One minute, they’re evenly matched, the next, someone is getting ragdolled like they’re a mere noble, not a High Lord. So yeah, I don’t buy the whole "some High Lords are drastically stronger than others" thing. It feels more like plot convenience than actual lore.

What do you think?

edit: tamlin killed the former high lord of night rhys's father before he get his own high lord power; so these make only the high lords power more questionable

[deathbealady]

wait a minute

was it ever explained how Brannagh and Dagdan are daemati and magically never fucking realized that Jurian was playing the King of Hybern like Tamlin playing a fiddle?

you mean to tell me that the sadistic and gross Brannagh and Dagdan never bothered to go into Jurian’s mind, not even just for shits and giggles because they like to torture humans??

I know SJM explains that Rhysand (and Feyre for that matter) didn’t think to check, but that’s also kind of a really stupid excuse. Yeah sure he’s gonna be mentally/emotionally/physically scarred from all the bs he’s been through, and it might’ve made him crazy in any number of ways, but he’s clearly of sound enough mind to be acting on behalf of Hybern in some capacity. Changing loyalties to turn against his own people is out of character to say the least, but certainly not outside the realm of possibility

Also, Jurian knew of daemati and expected them to do daemati things. He told Rhysand he figured he would’ve read his thoughts and known where his true loyalties lay. I don’t recall mention of him having mental shields, and as a human, how would he have known how to put any up? Doesn’t it require magic? And just assuming he could do it despite being human, how effectively would he be able to maintain such shields as a human, especially if he’s up against a more powerful and practiced daemati, let alone two??

Related: it’s established that daemati are not only able to read minds, but manipulate memories and essentially brainwash/control the minds of their targets. Why the fuck wouldn’t Rhysand check to see if Jurian hadn’t been brainwashed into serving the king of Hybern??? Especially after knowing that Hybern had at least 2 daemati rolling with Jurian, who could monitor and control his behavior in the Spring Court.

And for THAT matter, how did Brannagh and Dagdan not notice that Tamlin was also biding his time to double cross Hybern? I may be misremembering, but wasn’t there a whole-ass scene where Feyre had to go in and create mental shields for Tamlin and Lucien to protect them from Brannagh and Dagdan?? She protected his mind then, but it was also a lot of strain on her magic that was being sapped by the faebane. And in any case, it’s not a stretch to think Tamlin wouldn’t have met them before

It’s already stupid enough that a high lord like Tamlin and the son of a high lord like Lucien, somehow do not have training to protect themselves from daemati. It’s an especially stupid plot hole for Tamlin, who was once friends with Rhysand, and likely would’ve known about Rhysand’s abilities given their history. You mean to tell me that if he didn’t learn how to protect himself from daemati before or during their friendship, Tamlin just never thought “hey maybe I should learn to protect myself from daemati just in case”??? And especially not after the big falling out he’d had with Rhysand?!?!

This was honestly supposed to be a quick shower thoughts level post about Jurian but the more I thought about it, the more I realized NONE OF IT MAKES SENSE! These books truly do such terrible disservices to the most interesting characters and it is so painful to watch it happen

[flat-neines]

My hottest take on elucien v elriel is that the love triangle should've been elucien v elriel v Graylain or elucien v graylain that ends in elgraylucien. That is all.

[moongirlrhea]

the way that it will be an absolute shit show when sjm announces the next acotar book, no matter who it’s about, when it probably won’t even be that good… on an ideological level at the least

i mean HOFAS was so anticipated, and it literally gave us nothing…

[floresfinds]

Ik some people can’t seem to get their head around Lucien being a poc because “if he has dark/er skin then it would’ve been obvious Beron wasn’t his father” but have they ever considered that being mixed can lead to having your skin colour change dramatically in different seasons? For example my winter shade is like white white but since it’s now summer I’d say I’m significantly darker so Lucien moving from Autumn (inside more, colder/more cloudy weather) to spring (outside more, sunnier and longer days) it would make sense that he’d tan.

[feyres-divorce-lawyer]

Ni because regarding the Tamlin slavery thing it's so funny how she like. Stops giving a fuck about humans once feyre isn't one and therefore feels fine being Weird as Shit about this. But because this coincides with the books becoming feysand oriented she just like transitions from anti slavery love interest to both siding love interest which is HILARIOUS

srsly, like fine i can deal with completely dropping the humans cuz that’s just the loss of a far more interesting plot, but to then put the both sides dude on a pedestal and act like what he said wasn’t the least bit problematic is…..😬😬

[acourtofcriticalthinking]

i constantly see posts from antis that i can't even formulate replies for because they have no substance.

they write entire essays where they just talk in circles and use social justice buzzwords that give the entire post the vibe of a high school student trying to meet the word count. and because they're often in their own little echo chamber (stay there please) they're hyped up as these massive intellectuals. and then people add even more paragraphs filled with buzzwords and nothing until it's a novel's length of buzzwords and nothing.

i don't even read the entire posts anymore, i just clock the nonsense and move on.

[deathbealady]

Y’ALL. I had a very important revelation while yelling about ACOTAR with a friend today

I’m sure everyone has realized this already but please humor me bc I’m simply raging from this revelation

So, remember how in ACOMAF or ACOWAR (sorry I forget which, but I know it’s one of them), Feyre had told Rhysand that she wanted to live and enjoy her new immortal life with Rhysand before they went on to try for kids? And then, in ACOFAS, she immediately changed her mind and decided she wanted to have Rhysand’s baby? That old thing?

Well, my friend and I were talking about how we didn’t like this change of mind for Feyre and thought it was stupid and unnecessary. I mean, sure Feyre is allowed to change her mind but like, stay with me for a moment on this

Feyre specifically changed her mind because she met that lady who lost her husband and said she didn’t even have kids to have that part of him left. Yes, I can understand how hearing the woman’s story can hit hard. It was very sad, and I get how Feyre would hear that and be like “I’m so lucky to still have my husband” and “we should make the most of any and all time we left have together” and that’s why she decides they should have a baby right now after all, bc omg what if Rhysand dies again????

Except… Feyre literally never has to imagine a world where one is left behind with no part of the other left, because they fully had a conversation that went: “hey. if I die, you die?” “bet”

They made that irresponsible AF death pact at the end of ACOWAR, so they have nothing BUT time in the world together! They will literally never have to live without each other!! Which makes the whole plot point of Feyre rushing into having kids even stupider than it already was, because Feyre made the decision based on a literally impossible hypothetical situation

Feyre:

This kind of bs is what I’m talking about when I say Feyre is so dumb it’s embarrassing. It’s really so fucking sad because (like so much else in the ACOTAR series) she could’ve been really great, if only SJM would get out of her own way 🙃

[flat-neines]

>be me

>be really into fgo, world of darkness, etc. and start actively looking for fantasy with unique takes on creatures and stuff

>accidentally stumble upon a series called acotar and you look into it

>something seems familiar...

(I'm not trying to inspire discourse but- the parallels in those storylines are there and I can't unsee it)

[iocaisaint]

I don't know how to explain but one thing I'll always love about Nesta is her accomplishments and how she's seen in the eyes of canon vs how they genuinely don't register to her (like not in a humble way she genuinely just never thinks about)

like she's able to circumvent a high lords glamour through pure strength of will

she then treks on a 4 day round trip through wolf country in the dead of winter to go get her sister back, simply because it wasn't right she was taken when the family has only benefitted from that

this leads into ACOMAF where Feyre thinks about asking Rhysand if he can force Nesta's hand if she doesn't agree to host (daemati powers) and then questions if he could even do it to Nesta

We've got literal gods talking about some Nesta "you're the one the wind whispered about" in ACOWAR

her having the King off Hybern scared as a human simply because she pointed a finger at him

Then there's the king slaying obviously

Then at some point between ACOFAS & ACOSF she manages to deal with her terror of bathtubs through pure exposure therapy and no outside help

Then there's the weapons she made

Not being able to be contained by Rhys at the height of her power (+ him admitting that she scares)

Kelpie slaying, dread trove, pure death etc.

Then there's the mother imbuing her power into Nesta's friendship bracelets? This one was genuinely crazy

Her managing those 10,000 steps that were difficult for even the bat boys on nothing but strong thighs and spite!

This is one I hate but the IC just throwing her at any single man (Helion & Eris) in Pyrthian to get what they want and it working

Holding the pass for Gwyn & Em, murdering Briallyn, stopping time, making a deal with a soup pot, having a one on one with the mother and saving Nyx, Feyre and Rhys in one morning

Then HOFAS she's calling up the dread trove through universes and slaying the wyrm, getting Gwydion and going down as saviour of another universe

This entire moment>>>>>> "Rhys nodded without looking at the warrior, and focused all his fury on Nesta. To her credit, the female stood stiff-backed, chin high. Imperious and unbending. Ember couldn't help but admire her.

Rhysand’s violet-blue eyes guttered into pure darkness at the challenge in Nesta’s expression, her stance. A predator recognizing a worthy opponent—and unsheathing its talons. His hands curled at his sides, as if invisible claws were forming."

Then we get into Nesta's pov and her only desires are to go home to her man, hang out with Emerie & Gwyn, get her hands on a pegasus, read smutty books and eat chocolate cake 😭

I may not like how her story went but I'll always appreciate that this part of her stayed the same

[deathbealady]

Spitballing here, but I think there’s something to be said about the current mated pairs and how they compare to/mirror the previously mentioned mated pairs in the series:

Feyre and Rhysand are Tamlin’s parents: Feyre is completely devoted to her man the way Tamlin’s mother was to his father, despite both males being shitbags

Nesta and Cassian are Rhysand’s parents: Absolutely a terrible match, should not be together

I think Lucien and Elain are poised to be the ideal match, perhaps like Drakon and Miryam? Kallias and Vivianne?

I simply find it very hard to believe Nesta could ever be happy with someone that loyal to a man who hates her

[littlefeltsparrow]

The whole “I’m hurting you to protect you” trope only works well when the harm inflicted is lesser than the harm that would have otherwise occurred had a character not intervened. This is a good guiding principle for examining how well this trope fits into a given story. Because if the harm inflicted fails to meet the condition of being lesser than the harm that would’ve otherwise occurred, then the whole relationship is called into question.

Rhysand’s actions under the mountain are a good example of this trope done wrong, because there are very few points where the threat of harm to Feyre genuinely justifies the harm he inflicts upon her. For example, Feyre could have reasonably stayed in her jail cell and remained safe without Rhysand’s intervention, which ultimately, caused her more harm than was necessary. Many fans try to justify his actions by claiming that he was sparing her from the horrors she might witness UTM, but that simply isn’t substantiated by the evidence we’re given. We’re never given a substantial reason that requires drugging and fondling Feyre for nights on end to save her from greater harm. It is never established what might have happened to Feyre had Rhysand not intervened, and the reader is given no reason to think that Feyre would have suffered more had she remained in her cell.

The most blatant example of this however, is when he uses physical force to coerce her into agreeing to a contract that serves his interests. He did not have to twist her broken arm or frighten her into signing the contract, he could’ve just healed her because Feyre beating Amarantha was ultimately beneficial to everyone. Nobody told him to do that and it is never established why he *needed* to hurt her in order to protect her.

This trope is very broad and can operate on a spectrum of severity, but it must involve an established/implied threat for it to reach its full potential. The fact that Maas overlooks this crucial aspect of the trope is further evidence of her incompetence as a writer.

[puresugarandspite]

so like… tamlin

no, this isn’t me talking about how he was done so mfing dirty and i would defend him, BUT

He plays FIDDLE

not violin

like there’s a difference between a posh traditional ballroom music (no hate to violinists) and the inherent community that comes with folk music (the fiddle is a folk instrument) and like it’s not a big thing

but

tamlin was the son of a high lord he hated

he’d do the more ‘common’ instrument out of spite, out of defiance, out of something to separate himself from them and pull himself closer to the common people who he likely preferred being around

because folk music is something to dance to! It encourages community, it would be done at taverns and town squares, in festivals for people who wouldn’t hear ballroom music, much less attend fancy balls or soirées for violin music

and there’s something there

something something being taught a more common style of music by maybe a more common person (because folk is an incredibly oral and aural tradition, more passed down than written down) in defiance to a high lord and high society who gave him an instrument that they want used for ‘proper’ and fancy music

[cherrymoonlights]

the discourse in the acotar fandom needs to be studied, because why does it look like a book club where we all read different books

[deathbealady]

One day I have to have a whole TED talk about this because Feyre is nowhere near my favorite character but I truly feel so so bad for her and how the story has destroyed the character she was in favor of jerking off Rhysand at every turn

I think probably the saddest thing about Feyre is that she genuinely has no friends of her own. Her "friend group" was loyal to her husband hundreds of years before she was born and have proven more than once that they still defer to him over her. The one friend she might have had (Lucien) has been completely estranged from her. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Feyre in ACOSF is living ACOTAR Feyre's worst nightmare.