#also i think about the joo dee that azula put in charge of ba sing se about twice a week

[neuronary]

so. i've been thinking about a couple things. that whole azula adopted by piandao and fat thing from a while ago, that me and @eshusplayground and @ultranos were talking about. combined with a thought that i think also originated from nos about the lower ring of ba sing se hating the fire nation but loving azula because of her putting joo dee in charge of the city.

and like. say azula's been tending to her garden and growing her cherries and mostly ignoring the international news because, hey, not her responsibility any more, right? all she has to worry about is her cherry trees and her raspberry bushes and everything else can pretty much go fuck itself - she gave them enough. she gave it all enough.

until the day piandao folds down the newspaper and says "there's a revolution started up in ba sing se, in the name of some woman called joo dee."

and. what.

azula remembers joo dee. she remembers a woman who sort-of-vaguely had a personality but didn't like to think about it. she remembers a woman who navigated the bureaucracy of the upper ring like it was her home, even when it wasn't. she even remembers feeling mildly guilty about how much she appreciated that joo dee didn't ask many questions. that was why she'd installed her in the first place - joo dee needed something to keep her occupied to prevent an oncoming breakdown from whatever it was long feng and his dai li had actually done to her, and azula had needed someone to keep an eye on the city for her. of course, her 'uncle' had pretty much destroyed that entire plan a few weeks later because his ego had been bruised over the whole affair, but that isn't polite talk for the breakfast table.

fat, of course, notices that azula's upset, because he has about triple the emotional intelligence of piandao and azula combined, and suggests, oh so gently, that they change the subject.

"no," azula says, perhaps a bit more sharply than she intended to. "please. i'd like to see it."

her guardians exchange one of those Looks, clearly weighing up the pros and cons. azula takes the opportunity to switch the paper with yesterday's and gets down to the details of the matter.

the article is written by one of those centrist types that's trying to appeal to everyone. you'd think it would make for accurate journalism, but in fact the report is littered with contradictory and unnecessarily emotional language. azula parses it with a little difficulty - she's out of practice - and comes to three conclusions:

first and foremost: a great deal of this is her fault. she'd known, at the time, that joo dee was never going to be a permanent solution to the problem of ba sing se's self-destructive system of government, but she’d considered it appropriate in the short term, and had otherwise been preoccupied with spinning her report of events to put zuko in a good enough light to get him home safe.

second: the revolutionaries are well-organised, but joo dee has very little to do with it. the journalist has put just a little too much emphasis on insisting that their actions are ineffective, which means they're accomplishing something, which means they're organised. but not well-organised enough that joo dee is actually directly involved. azula assumes she and her suffering are a symbol more than anything.

third: she feels oddly guilty about this entire situation and a little proud, to boot. her recent reading material has been rather critical of the mandate of heaven (king kuei remains a staunch and unwavering point in their favour) and proposes a system similar to the way the southern water tribes were governed, through choice of the populace. azula has her own doubts about its efficacy, but it seems to be what these revolutionaries are aiming for, and she can appreciate the "if you want it done well" attitude they're holding.

when she tries to explain all this to piandao and fat, she is met with two terribly-concealed looks of pity that make her chest do something twisty and uncomfortable. she responds (very maturely) by storming out to the forge and making another three trowels.

"fat thinks you are repressing your emotions through distraction again," piandao says when he comes to collect her for lunch.

azula mutters something very rude to herself about where, exactly, fat can take his thoughts and stick them, and does not repeat it when asked to.

"i thought," piandao breezes on, unphased, "that we might make a trip on your birthday, agni and the earth kingdom's bureaucracy willing, to ba sing se."

azula keeps her excitement at the prospect firmly locked away in her head and nods slowly. "i think it would be useful," she settles on. "and i'd like to understand what's going on there through my own eyes."

it takes some persuading fat, but the three weeks until the date itself come in handy there, and eventually he gives up, promising to take care of the garden for her.

"you're not coming with us?"

"i'm not one for travel. upsets my delicate constitution."

azula is pretty sure that this is just code for fat preferring to hide from the world in its entirety, rather than hide only a part of himself from the world. she doesn't understand it, but she respects it nonetheless. he'll be alright without them. he has been in the past, piandao reassures her, when she fidgets while packing.

(she wouldn't have done that a year ago, she's gotten soft and fallen into caring too much, again, think how that ended last time, she has to pull herself together—)

fat pulls her into a hug that smells of lapsang souchong and freshly tilled earth.

(recovery is not a linear process for anyone, especially not child soldiers that have only a garden and two well meaning but not especially knowledgeable old men to help them through.)

azula breathes, accepts more bentos than would be necessary for a party three times their size, and goes back to ba sing se.

the wall has been rebuilt, again, from her uncle smashing it down, again, because he had absolutely no class whatsoever. (so maybe azula is still a bit angry about some things. she probably has the right, after everything.)

inside is different. the tension is no longer being hidden, which is convenient, because it means it take azula all of four hours to track down a meeting and a further two to track down what she really wants to see.

joo dee - her joo dee; it turns out there were several - is staying with her mother in the lower ring, spending her days sitting in silence and staring out of the small window she has. azula doesn't ask for her real name. she can't get the words out, just holds up one of the many jars she brought along. joo dee's mother accepts it, confused, and lets azula up to see her daughter.

"anything that helps," she says, weakly, as azula stares.

she sits down, and joo dee's mother leaves, and azula stares.

"hello, princess azula," joo dee says, after a moment. azula feels her breath about to catch, and makes sure it doesn't.

"i'm not a princess anymore," she replies, tone carefully even. "they kicked me out."

"hmm," joo dee replies. "how unfortunate. you were a very kind princess."

azula snorts into her tea. "no. i was efficient. vastly different and only very occasionally overlapping things."

joo dee hums again, then, "there is no war in ba sing se."

"not anymore," azula agrees. "i put a stop to all that. there's about to be a revolution, though."

"oh," says joo dee, and her eyes well with tears. azula has no idea what to do with that. "apologies," joo dee says, while the tears roll, fat and heavy, down her face. her voice doesn't change. "when the men came. with their army. they took me away and threatened to kill me if i did not release control. there is no war in ba sing se. i--" she falters, just for a moment, then recovers. "i did not wish to see anyone harmed. i failed."

azula swallows around the sudden lump in her throat. "the people appreciate your efforts," she said, eventually. "they want you back. they want you to lead them."

joo dee watches her. "there is a revolution in ba sing se."

azula nods, feeling incredibly lost. "i'd like to see it succeed, i think. i dislike the system of government here. too many layers."

"yes," joo dee says, "too many layers. perhaps we should just. do away with them."

"that... might work," azula says. she gets the distinct feeling they're not talking about government anymore. she can't follow the thread of the conversation like she might have been able to in the asylum. she's not sure if it's a good thing or not.

"yes." joo dee says, sounding very certain. "yes, i think it will."

something moves in azula's peripheral and she jerks her head up. joo dee's mother is standing in the doorway, cheeks tearstained like her daughter’s. azula begins to regret her decision.

"thank you," she whispers, voice hoarse. "she hasn't spoken so much in months."

"gardening helps," azula blurts out, then avoids the ensuing awkwardness by pulling a zuko and climbing out of their window to run across the rooftops until she is far enough away that the burning in her lungs is only a product of exertion.

piandao does not comment on it when she follows him around like a shadow the next day. she appreciates that about him. fat would have questions. he just lets her sit in the corner of the forge he has taken over for their stay, and hums old folk songs while he works.

azula visits the revolutionaries. she attends meetings, watches passionate twenty-somethings shout about justice and democracy. she leaves early, buys street food, and wonders about her own home. the fire nation is disciplined, controlled, heavily so. it might have the discipline to manage itself in the absence of a fire lord. it might collapse entirely.

(she still has more of a claim to the throne than the rest of her family and more political finesse. she might just nudge the common folk in the right direction. let them sort it out, if that's what they want. the earth kingdom's governor's won't last long after ba sing se overturns itself.)

when she gets home, though, she goes back to her cherry trees and picks the fruit off the branches, cutting them open and prying away the pits with a practised ease. fat will help her plant them, later. when she has the energy. for now, she'll go to bed and get some sleep. everything else will grow out of whatever happens tomorrow.

[ultranos]

Do you think the majority of Ba Sing Se's residents would care about Azula's coup, or would it just be refugees and the likes of King Bearfood Kuei that see the difference as more than changing the accents of the powerful and the colour of the flag?

That's kind of hard to say, really. Normally, yeah, I'd expect a lot of people to be somewhat upset and of course there's a lot of resentment about being occupied by the Fire Nation.

However, there are two twists in this situation that could conceivably have the majority of residents thinking occupation wasn't as bad as it could have been (it's still very much Not A Good Thing, let's not kid ourselves that it was. The bar cleared here is "Not A Fucking Nighmare Hell". It is a very low one). And would possibly even lead to some conflicted feelings after the retaking during the comet.

The first is that as far as the EK residents are concerned, the coup was bloodless. A complete regime change where the common person didn't end up paying the largest price is...frankly unheard of. Not only that, but while it's funny that Azula put Joo Dee in charge, it's also an absolutely brilliant move. Because Joo Dee is not only EK herself, but has been a part of the administrative machine that runs Ba Sing Se, and probably one of the only people who have an actual clue as to how the actual infrastructure runs. It's people like her who would be making sure food got delivered and sanitation still worked, etc. The city can actually run pretty much exactly the way it did before, minus the threat of secret police. If the FN did not implement a brutal subjugation campaign in those few weeks it held the city, and instead took the lazy way approach and let the city run itself for awhile...it's really hard to say how disrupted people's lives actually were.

The other snarl is that retaking the city was not bloodless. And probably screwed up that exact infrastructure, destroyed people's homes, and if Kuei is back in charge, that's not getting fixed any time soon. Because Kuei has no experience actually governing. It is very likely that the common people suffered a lot during the retaking. So, they're not occupied, but their ruler is now the same out-of-touch and clueless man who let things get bad in the first place, and if he decides to do a reasonable thing and purge his government of the people who worked for the FN or Long Feng...well, there's not anyone who can teach him how to govern. So, they're not occupied, which is good, but I imagine there aren't a lot of them who are thrilled to be back under the old regime.

Basically, I'd expect the average resident to be indifferent to Azula herself at best and dislike her at worst, but generally not outright hate her. Really, she's at "not as bad as you could have been". And pretty much by virtue of not being the other guys.

Hate I could see being aimed at the men who let Long Feng have his reign of terror and were disinterested in anything outside their comfy lives, and who violently retook the city to regain that power. The Fire Nation held the city for a few weeks at most. Kuei's government, before and after? That is years of suffering.

Honestly, considering how much Kuei resembles the real Last Emperor Puyi...uh, do you want communist revolution? This is how you get communist revolution.

[wingsfreedom]

Mini analysis about Azula gaining affection and her crooked moral compass.

"since she had alienated herself from her mother, she focused her energy on pleasing dad... which of course meant acting in more and more intense and possibly evil ways." -Aaron Ehasz [source]

Of course, she is acting by her own hand and decision, but why she's here, and why she suggested to burn the land to the ground was because to please her Dad -- to steal some of the attention Ozai gave Zuko in the War Meeting, and later openly expressed how she wants to be by his side. Azula was competing with Zuko over their parents' attention, especially her father's, ever since she was a kid -- "perfectionist and competitive" is Azula's nature and the core of her character, while "being loved" is the truth of her character. This is what Ehasz meant by "I intended to leave a kernel of humanity". Both traits got heavily poisoned when the alienate of her mother happened, and a man like Ozai received a double attention/devotion from his daughter.

Ozai practically choose to ignore his first born son too, and give more attention to his second-born prodigy daughter. This resulted for Azula to have everything she wanted while simultaneously carries a lot of burden, yet extremely loyal to her father.

I'm not sure what Azula would suggest to do with the Comet without her father's influence, but I remember her reasoning for conquering the Earth Kingdom:

-> ("If Ba Sing Se fell, the Earth Kingdom fall. Ba Sing Se is the key.") From "Earth Kingdom Chronicles: Tale of Azula" (ATLA official novelization)

-> ("The key is the Dai Li. Whoever controls the Dai Li controls Ba Sing Se.") From The Guru episode.

This is the reasoning she followed. It was a complete on point, strategical assessment. She only conquered the "key" to the Earth Kingdom defeat, for the Fire Lord and the Fire Nation as she puts it out for us in Crossroads of Destiny episode and Return Home comic, both written by Aaron Ehasz. Then kept the city under control and returned home after leaving Joo Dee in charge (a brainwashed Fire Nation loyal servant).

- "We've done it, Zuko. It's taken a hundred years, but the Fire Nation has conquered Ba Sing Se."

- "I found the perfect person to leave in charge. Someone who will execute the Fire Lord's will mercilessly and without question."

Azula definitely is someone to rule with iron fist, but she didn't go out CRUSH all the oppositions because she already won. You can see that in a smaller scale too: she didn't kill Long Feng because she already won. She refused to Agni Kai Zuko in The Crossroads of Destiny because she already had him. And more importantly, she didn't destroy the city or killed any civilians because she already won. She didn't kill the Kyoshi Warriors and none of the Invasion force because she already won, but rather separated the groups from their leaders and split them into different imprisonment locations. So Azula was not too over the top villain, she only has a mission and does what's necessary. Her politics fuction more on "if I had the key, the rest is irrelevant", rather than "complete and total obedience".

I always thought Bryke just wanted to finish the show with a bomb, because there was no logic in burning down an entire CONTINENT in less half an hour with only 16 airships fleet (I literally counted them). But Ozai isn't below committing atrocities if they benefit him or to boost his own ego (ie the whole Phoenix rises from the ashes), considering he also was following on his forefathers' footsteps too regardless of bad writing. Still by thinking of it more from plotline standpoint; if Ozai didn't order a "genocide" then Zuko wouldn't have a good reason to leave like any decent person would (and so Aang's arc would reach climax as well).

But Azula was going to aid her father anyways, because to be by his side matters more to her than any moral or logic, and Ozai is megalomaniac with no sense of morality.

As I said before, Azula's still acting by her own hand and decision, but it's so fucked up how far she would go. She generally does have conscience (as we all saw in the mirror scene, and briefly in The Beach; her apology and sorry face expression when Ty Lee started crying), but when she's with her father, it just gets buried.

P.S Ozai also canonically has narcissistic traits [X, X, X, X], and Azula def appeal to that part of him. Take into account that he's incompetent and needs a reliable ally.

[ultranos]

How would Azula be perceived by Ba Sing Se citizens after having ended Long Feng's era of terror. Besides how would be seen IRL a character such as Iroh who lay a siege for 600 days over the city and is complicit of the most opressing powers depending of his comfort.

Ooh boy, so this is...kind of complicated. Like most things, really. And that’s probably how it would be: she’d be perceived as a complicated figure.

Because on one hand, yes, she’s an agent of the imperialist power that’s been slowly devouring EK territory for the last 100 years and people remember that kind of thing. And she did basically take over the city-state and there are a lot of people in the city who have been fleeing the Fire Nation who now have nowhere else to run. I think refugees in particular would be really unhappy.

Then you have the elite, who have been benefiting from proximity to Long Feng and his policies. Azula coming in would mean their party time is over, which would also lead to them probably resenting and hating her.

But. Then you have the common people who have been living in Ba Sing Se for awhile. Who were the ones who were the victims of Long Feng’s campaign. Because for them? Azula came in and brought down the goddamn Statsi almost single-handedly. We’re all well-aware of government institutions that are perfectly legal but nowhere near good. And after bringing it down, she didn’t install one of the ruling elite in the power vacuum or one of her Fire Nation lackeys.

Azula apparently put one of the Joo Dees in charge. Which while it can be funny, also sends the message to the commoners: the old order has been overthrown and upturned. The ones who were slaves to the system now hold the power, and the ones who understand the city best are the caretakers. Because the Dai Li and the Joo Dees? They come from the common people.

(That’s the weird thing about the state of Ba Sing Se. In modern day Western parlance, we are kind of primed to think of it as very much an occupation, like how Berlin was post-WWII or Nanjing or Manchuria. But with how Azula left it, that’s not the right model. It’s closer to the tributary state model of Imperial China, where China very much preferred to leave conquered territory up to local control and hold it mostly in-name-and-tribute-only. It’s also the same model I tend to use to make the EK as a whole make any sense, as it seems to be multiple semi-autonomous city-states under a central king.)

Overall, I think the majority opinion of Azula probably comes down to how conditions in the city improve after the takeover. If she does the logical thing and has food and medical supplies come in (because making people’s lives measurably better is the quickest way to keep them from getting rebellious, and as soon as they’re conquered, they’re now FN citizens), I’d actually expect it to be the weird situation where the citizens might like her in specific but hate the Fire Nation in general.