#and I'm seeing my 90 year old grandma this weekend

[adira5780]

G'mar chatima tova everyone.

I hope you find this Yom Kippur meaningful however you are observing it.

[timeoverload]

I guess I'm sort of ok now. I'm calm now at least but I can't sleep. I'm really sorry about last night. I know I need to keep trying harder to control my emotions and I can't act like that no matter how I feel. I don't know how to shut up sometimes and just let things go. I know my behavior has been incredibly erratic lately. I am having a hard time managing myself and I should have just taken my anxiety medicine last night instead of going to get beer. I'm not sure why I impulsively do that sometimes when I get upset. I know it's extremely unhealthy and it's not going to make me feel any better. I don't even drink that much most of the time but I've been getting triggered a lot the past couple weeks. I don't know what's wrong with me because I know better. I've been feeling a little self-destructive lately and it's really shitty so I'm trying to get my bad thoughts under control. Sometimes I feel like I have a monster in my head telling me what to do. I don't want to hurt myself or other people by acting this way. I don't want to cause anyone to be worried or stressed.

I'm also going to try really hard not to drink anymore unless it's a special occasion. I don't want it to become a habit. I'm not going to let myself buy any more for a while no matter what happens. I need to be better at sitting with my emotions. I can't drink when I'm not feeling stable. I need to be more responsible and take better care of my body. I can't mix alcohol with the ativan anyway and I don't want to get sick because of that. I am trying not to take the ativan every day unless I absolutely need it because it makes me feel gross. I can't drive or do anything after I take it. I don't want to have to rely on it because it has the potential to be addictive. I hate taking pills every day as it is.

I just need to learn to manage my stress and anxiety in other ways. I wish it was easier for me to exercise outside of work. I haven't tried to do yoga in a long time and I would like to get back into that. It would also be good for me to start reading again. I just need to get outside more. I think my vitamin D level is probably super low because I'm inside 90% of the time.

I don't think spending most of my time in solitude is good for me at all. Sometimes I even go most of the day at work without saying much to anyone. I live a pretty quiet life. I'm frustrated because I tried to ask some of my co workers to hang out sometime because we get along really well but I don't think they want to because I'm a couple years older than them. They all got together for the 4th of July and didn't say anything to me about it. We don't have a lot in common either so I guess I understand. I probably seem pretty boring to them but it's ok. I've gotten used to feeling left out. I think I'm just too weird and I act like an old woman a lot of the time.

I got to talk to my grandma a lot this weekend and that made me feel a little better. Since my mom isn't involved in my life, it's nice that I'm still able to talk to her. We have a lot in common and I'm glad I can go to her for advice and support. I hope I can go see her soon. I wish she didn't live so far away. I feel so bad for her because she doesn't really talk to anyone either and no one goes to see her. I can't tell her everything that's going on with me but I know she probably understands me better than a lot of people do.

I think I am also going to be working through my trauma for a long time. I don't like letting it interfere with my life. I don't want to upset people because I'm out of control. I didn't want my family to see how bad I am and it's embarrassing. I'm definitely not the same person I used to be and that's both a good and a bad thing. I don't want to let my past experiences to define my life and who I am. I don't want to think about it anymore and I want to leave it all behind me but that's easier said than done. I want the nightmares to go away. I know healing can take years so I'm not giving up. I know that my life has still improved a lot and I have more peace now. I need to be more thankful for that.

I also think my hormone levels have been super out of balance for the past couple months. I'm not sure what's going on but I'm starting to get worried that something isn't right. I'm still anxiously awaiting the results of my blood test. I'm hoping I don't have something wrong with my thyroid. It might be TMI but it's possible that I have more ovarian cysts. They found a large one when I was in the hospital for sepsis but it went away a few months later. I would have had to have it surgically removed if it didn't go away. I know they can come back. I've had a lot of pain in that area and my abdomen is slightly distended among other issues. I am going to make an appointment to get that checked out sometime this week. I feel like my problems are never ending and it's just one thing after another.

I'm trying to be optimistic right now that things will get better. I just need to keep reminding myself that everything is going to be ok. I can't let stuff that I have no control over get me down.

Maxwell, I'm really sorry for being rude to you. I hope I didn't ruin your vacation. You deserve to do fun things even if I'm not with you. I know you work very hard and you probably don't get enough breaks. I shouldn't expect you to invite me to anything. You don't have to do anything for me. It's wrong for me to be so intrusive and it's none of my business. You don't have to share anything with me. I realize I probably can be a little intimidating at times. I do feel like you have walls up and you don't want to let your guard down. I understand if you don't want to be more open with me but I wish you would be. I just love you so much and being apart from you is very painful, especially when I can't do anything about it. I just wish you were here.

I probably won't be as active on here for a few days because I still think I need a bit of a break from the internet. I'm still feeling really sad and I don't want to dump my negative energy on other people anymore. I don't want people to think I'm ignoring them but I'm trying to avoid having another episode. I'm also not feeling very talkative. I'm going to do my best to pull myself out of this slump. I truly hope this week is better for everyone. Thank you to everyone who reads my posts. I appreciate you. Thank you for caring. It does mean a lot to me. Sometimes I just don't believe it but I know there are a lot of people that care about me. I know I can be a drag sometimes so thank you all for putting up with me.

[ryeeatsbread]

I need to vent about sadness real quick

Tw death

My grandpa died last year, around the time of the first heavy duty Lockdown in Germany. He died of old age, but no one was really allowed to visit him at the old people's home he was in and he was often hospitalized for a lot of stuff that was super out of the ordinary for him. My grandpa was a very peaceful and quiet man, a little leftist feminist icon tbh. But when the dementia got him, he started having violent outbursts and paranoia and he'd try to hurt the care staff, so they hospitalized him. This was super hard on my mom, grandma, and aunt. I was in the lucky position of living too far away from all of that.

We were all kind of waiting for him to go, I think. We felt that this wasn't him, and that he was struggling. But when the Lockdown came, my mom and aunt (and probably also my grandma, but she won't talk about it) felt guilty for not being able to care for their dad the way they had imagined it. They were only allowed to see him for like half an hour a week. It was really hard on them.

His health soon deteriorated, and after a few weeks he died in my mom's arms. She told me that that was a difficult, but somewhat helpful experience. She was able to be there for him, rock him from side to side, talk to him, and give him a little massage that a nurse had shown her.

I couldn't really feel anything. I kept thinking yes this is my grandpa and it's sad for grandma, mom, and my aunt to lose their husband/dad, but he's old and this is natural. I couldn't grieve. When my mom asked me and my sister if we wanted to contribute something to the eulogy, I couldn't come up with anything aside from "he made the greatest Kartoffelgratin" (man I miss his Kartoffelgratin.). I didn't say that though, it felt silly. I thought everyone else would have great stories to tell and legitimate grief to share with the others, so I kept to myself and wept a little during the funeral, when his life story was being told. (btw, a great story. My grandpa was a really cool and nice guy)

I'm sure that none of you really care about this story about some grandpa you've never met, and that's okay!! I just need to write down some of these thoughts and feelings.

Today I was texting back and forth with my sister and asked her when our grandma was planning to move out of her apartment. She still lives in the apartment her and grandpa bought from their savings in the 80s. It was their weekend getaway when they were still living with us, in the early 90s, when they helped my parents raise their kids. It was my sister's and my getaway for summer holidays or when mom was sick. For a long time, it was the place our whole family got together for Christmas, that time of year when my grandparents would get out a very old little angel figurine/candle holder thingy - the poor little angel has a sooty mouth from the candle burning away its lower lip a tiny bit year by year, but it's holding onto dear life. They didn't get a Christmas tree. They had a minimalist advent wreath with four candles on it - my grandpa once told me that when he was a kid, no one had big wreaths or trees because they were all too poor for that. Maybe it was just my grandpa's family. They were a working class family with 4 children in ww2 Munich. Anyways. Christmas at grandma and grandpa's was magic. They had these thin-walled glass tea cups you were afraid to pick up because they were so fragile. They had a fancy little clock with dancing golden orbs inside of a glass dome. They had that weird little soot covered angel, and the best, most perfectly shaped Christmas cookies of like 12 different varieties, all made by hand by my grandma. We sang and we ate and my cousins, my sister, and I would sneak into the China cabinet (that my grandma of course has because she's a fancy lady who grew up in the 1940s/50s) and steal sugar from the fancy little bowl they had (and not just any sugar, they always had the kind that was like heart shaped) in there.

The best part about that apartment, though? The view. You could look out the window and always see mountain tops. When I was little, I was so fascinated by the fact that I could see snowy mountain tops on the hottest of hot summer days. My grandparents lived just 10 minutes from the Alps. They went hiking at least once a week, and my grandpa had marked a lot of the pathways himself when he was younger. A lot of my favorite childhood memories take place in the Alps, but most of them include my grandpa. He would always take me on walks and explain a lot of things to me. What wild plants were edible, what you should do if you got injured outside, he even explained the concept of acid rain to confused 4yo me.

I miss my grandpa so much and I haven't been able to really feel that.

Back to today though. So I was asking my sister when grandma was planning to move to Munich, where she's applied for a room in an old people's home. And as if it was common knowledge, my sister was like oh she moved out last Friday. I didn't know about that. No one had told me. And I feel so guilty because, even though I love my grandma, I just don't like calling people, plus my grandma doesn't talk about her feelings or what's going on in her life. So now her apartment is being emptied out, and she's only taking the essentials with her to Munich. My sister took the fancy little clock from the living room, and I'm glad that I'll get to see it at her place.

But I wish I could freeze that apartment in time. It belongs to my aunt now and she wants to rent it out, so all of grandma's stuff has to go. I started crying like 5 minutes after I read that text from my sister. I think all the sadness and grief from when my grandpa died is finally making its way to the surface. I keep imagining standing on their balcony and smelling their geraniums and staring at the mountain tops in the distance, waiting for grandma and grandpa to be done with their chores so we can drive to the nearest lake and rent a pedal boat. I wish I had visited them much more often when I got older. I even miss the unspectacular dinner that was the same every night - the same bread, radishes, some sausage and cheese. My grandpa would always cut little ridges in his breadcrust because his teeth weren't strong enough to bite into it. And at night, when I couldn't sleep, because I never could, I would sneak out of bed and watch my grandparents play cards and share one giant glass of beer. One time they let me drink some of it because they thought it would help me sleep, but that's a different story.

[lizacstuff]

Liza that 3rd fragman 👀 "if I was born a 100 times I'd fall in love with you everytime" Eda saying this is their last obstacle and nothing can separate them, serkan's "I'll be right back, close your eyes I'm here" If this isn't all a red flag for shits about to hit the fan then I don't know what is LOL (but also how cute to Edser look and them telling each other they love each other very much 😭😭😭)

That fragman is both the SWEETEST and the MOST OMINOUS thing I’ve ever seen. ALL AT ONCE.  

Friends... we’re gonna go through some things.  That being said, everything is going to be great. These writers have been solid so far, and I have faith they have come up with something really interesting to increase the longevity of this show. And I don’t know about you, but I’m prepared to go through some things if it means keeping Eda and Serkan for longer.  (I heart them)

This show is about Eda and Serkan and their love story, at it’s core it’s a comedy, it will all lead to happy things, but... yeah, buckle up! 

I have a lot of asks both about the fragman and last ep, so I’m going to answer a bunch under the cut. 

Anonymous said: The fandom theories about episode 28 have gotten so wild that I literally think the most shocking thing would be if they actually got married and were not separated (emotionally or physically). What if the earlier painful episodes were to make us believe that things couldn't possibly go right in 28 and it's a reverse psychology trick?

You could be right!  I like your thinking. I checked on twitter and I had to back away slowly. The juvenile temper tantrums were too much for me today.  

Look, I think it’s clear something big is coming. It has to, there has to be something that shakes up the show. Some of the theories are more upsetting and catastrophic than others, but the writers won’t do anything that dings either character or their love for one another.  Whatever happens will showcase the connection between these two and the chemistry between the actors, that’s the point of everything, and anything that does those things is gonna be a-okay with me. 

@jan31​ Hi Liza. Do you think we are going to see the wedding in 28 or they will leave it on a cliffhanger for next week. Lots of theories going round mainly cos of Neslihan saying new dimensions coming in episode 29, which could just mean married life etc. I have seen suggestions of memory loss, it's all a dream since episode one. I would personally love Eda to wake up like in episode one but for it to be a total turn around and she is the boss and Serkan the employee. Eda being robot yildiz appeals to me!!! I know it will never happen but leave me here with my dreams!!

I started the day at 90% sure they’ll be married in 28/29, but now I’m down to like 30% that they’ll get married in these episodes. I really, really want them to get married before whatever happens happens, because every scenario I can think of for this reset or starting again, seems like it would be better if they were married.  

However, the shooting spoilers from today, make me question that. Namely the videos where Hande appears to still be wearing the ring on her right hand. We shall see, that could be for many reasons. 

Honestly, though, I wouldn’t hate a memory loss storyline. Seeing one of them (and Serkan’s line in the trailer makes it seem like it might be him) lose their memory and have to fall in love all over again? There are worse fates for a shipper than getting to experience that all again but in a different way.  

Anonymous said: Your response to the fandom drama anon was so good, it's exactly how I feel. While I don't know what the old posts that were like are (that's shady as fuck) I did see all the other drama go down and wow. The actresses def need to stay in their lane and some of the fans, hoooo boy, it's obvious they're young based off their reactions alone. Had to unfollow some people once I realized what they were like. Also some of the IRL shipping reminded me of col*fer stuff, reading into everything and blowing it out of proportion (which then gets picked up by paps....). But you're right in that at least the show related drama is tame compared to OUAT. But still, people being too careless even while they know the paps see everything and harass Kerem and hande (omg did you see the video of hande the other day stopped in the van and she looked so overwhelmed 😔)

You’re referencing this post here about yesterday’s drama. 

Today Neslihan made it worse by addressing everything and claiming she didn’t like all those Hande-bashing posts because... wait for it... she was HACKED. Oy. Hackers got in and went back two years to like gross posts about Hande? Sure, Jan. While I don’t believe that for a second, I guess that at least gives her cover with Hande so they can all pretend it’s true and move on so it’s not awkward on set.  But, yikes, she needs to consult a publicist, she took a narrative that was circulating in certain circles in fandom and made sure all her followers were aware. Not very savvy. 

As for the paps coming after Hande, yes I did see her in the car, she did look overwhelmed. Back off vultures!!! That’s why I think Kerem sometimes throws himself to the wolves so that doesn’t happen. She always handles them like a pro, but you can tell she’d rather be anywhere else on earth than talking to them. 

The pap stuff is worse than I’ve seen before, they’re like vultures circling for any conjecture (sometimes made up out of thin air) they can turn into a question and blame fans. OUAT actors dealt with nothing like this. Also I can’t believe they never ask about the show. Like after last week? They could legit ask about the sex scene which probably would have given them some angle on the actors that they wanted, (especially since it was too hot for Turkish TV) but they let that pass them by, and instead asked the same questions about being together that they never answer. Dumbasses. They are not only awful people, they are awful at their jobs. 

In Van, the paps pay off crew members for info, they always know more than fans. Also I don’t remember stars of my shows getting this level of tabloid attention before. Except for on Riverdale, Lili and Cole generated that level of interest, and while I didn’t pay terribly close attention to them, I feel like they rarely talked to the paps, were just photographed. Also I don’t suspected the CW of calling the paps on them, but I suspect either the network or production company of sometimes calling them on Hande and Kerem. 

Anonymous said: Do you think it’s weird that they didn’t touch the kidnapping at all in either trailer? They might not have filmed it in time for the 1st one but certainly the 2nd. And I’m definitely not complaining about the ones we got because its like a fairytale but the kidnapping was the cliffhanger...? 🧐 I think they should’ve just left the princes storyline at “he went back to his country” but then they didn’t so......

If they’d left his story at just going back to his country, then the Prince really wouldn’t have served his purpose. He was brought on to cause some sort of trouble, so they probably need him to cause the trouble before he goes, lets hope it ends with this kidnapping!

And to answer your question, yes, I do think it’s weird that neither trailer touched on it. On any other show I’d think it was a huge red flag, but on this show maybe not as much because  a) there’s obviously a lot of romance in this episode, it’s not crazy that they are focusing on that to draw people in with the promos  b) this show likes to do cliffhangers that end up being no big deal, that happens a lot.  

Who knows it could turn out to be a big deal that shapes the rest of the episode in some unexpected way (Eda’s captured the whole episode and she’s dreaming about wedding prep, or... who knows) but I think it’s more likely that they resolve in the first 5-10 minutes and then move on.  Since we know from the summary (not that I trust those) that Serkan goes on the bachelor weekend, it feels like the Prince is taken care of prior to that. I don’t think he’d leave her alone for a second if there was a chance the Prince was still a threat. Perhaps Babaanne is pissed he tried to kidnap Eda and tells them she’ll handle it herself???

Anonymous said: Semiha not being in the promo is highkey suspicious. The actress is promoting the episode lol. She's about to Evil Queen this wedding ceremony but you know what, I'm fine with whatever she has planned if they end up married at the end of the day. What's funny is that since a lot of fans these days will assume that there will be shocking negative plot twists, not actually having one here would be a plot twist so I hope the writers keep them together for whatever's next haha

You’re not wrong, at this point, having this wedding take place would be a shocking twist for all of us!  As for Semiha... hmmm... it will be interesting to see what her reaction is to Eda being kidnapped by her pick of suitor. Serkan Bolat might be the son of the man indirectly responsible for her parents death, but he would never hurt her. Take note, Grandbag!  

Anonymous said: Do you mind sharing your speculative scenarios?

After the trailer today, I don’t know if I can even remember some of them. 

Memory loss

Grandma forces Serkan to choose between Eda and his company/wealth,  he chooses Eda and they start over from scratch with nothing

Time jump

AU starting over, showing a different path they might have taken together

Dream

These actors playing different characters in a new story

I don’t think the last three are likely, but they did spring to mind after some of Neslihan’s teases. 

Anonymous said: So this show doesn't get like fantastic ratings (it actually seems to be on the lower end compared to all other dizis airing) but the social media engagement is off the charts. Why is that?!? Is the show just extraordinarily popular internationally? or that this is a "shipping" show? I'm floored by the numbers - its like no other show/fandom is even trying

The ratings were terrific during the summer. But to your point, it has a huge fandom both in Turkey and internationally, but it’s worth noting that most of those charts you see where it beats every other show in every imaginable social metric is just for Turkey.  

It’s one of those lightning in a bottle situations where you get the right property and the right actors together at the right time and magic happens.  And, for sure, the number one reason is the shipping. Shipping drives fandom engagement, and a fantastic ship with a juicy, fun, tropey love story is what this show offers. It also offers up two extremely attractive, talented, likeable leads with off-the-charts chemistry (plus the added speculation about an off-camera relationship that has intrigued more than a few fans, tabloids and gossip sites and fueled interest) who have done a good job of building the fanbase through their social media engagement. Plus the timing is part of it as well. I don’t know about you, but this show hit the spot during this pandemic and the horror of 2020. We all needed this escape. 

Anonymous said:Do you think something happened in the writers room after the backlash of 25 and fan disappointment after Ayse's announcement? I feel like a switch flipped and now we're in fanficland with how much good content we've gotten in these last two episodes. Like I thought maybe they should wrap up the series soon before the characters got completely off the tracks but they may be finding their groove now and I'm interested to see what their next twist is after they can write out Balca/Seymen.

I don’t know about a switch flip, this show has been fanfic land since the first episode!  The tropes! That is how I described it to multiple people when I first started watching: an AU fanfic come to life.

As for the writing changes, no, I don’t think backlash after 25 affected 26 or 27, because 26 was already 90% shot, and 27 already written. However, I assume they themselves could tell that 25 got just too dark and had strayed pretty far from the DNA of the series. While I didn’t think it was bad, it was not fun to watch and this show ought to be fun to watch. 

Let’s hope, however, that the backlash affects future episodes in that they know what works... and what doesn’t.  The last two episodes definitely felt reminiscent of the first batch of episodes. Light, funny, romantic. If they can keep that tone... I’ll be thrilled.

Anonymous said: i didn't realize how much i missed "together" edser until watching 27.. it's been so long since they were "officially" together and we also had such few episodes of it.. ppl have been comparing it to 12 and while in some ways i agree, edser are always so different here than they were there. 12 was them navigating their new relationship.. they were more shy and finding their footing.. here they are very much established, as they should be after knowing their love for so long in comparison to 12!

Yes, it was lovely. You know I’ve preached a lot about how even though Eda and Serkan were broken up, they’ve still been together all this time. And it’s true, but there is something about them truly being together that is magical. We never got enough of that the first time around (a writing mistake in my opinion) and they’re so good together it’s lovely to watch. 

Anonymous said: Serkan not asking for help from Balca when asking his team for help with the marriage gifts preparations and refusing her offer of help when she asked made me so happy. Good job Serkan! He's learning! She's not trustworthy!

Yes, that was a good moment. And he was eyeing her very warily when she offered. The thing I don’t understand is how has no one caught on that she’s working with Babaanne? That entire office is filled with nosy people, has no one remarked on the number of times Balca has gone up to the office or they’ve disappeared for lunch at the same time? Come on Leyla! Come on Melo! Notice these things!  

Anonymous said: Fingers crossed that we finally make progress towards getting rid of Seiman & Balca now that all the girls were drugged and Eda was put in the car in the last episode. Unless Seiman has a change of heart and takes Eda back inside before anyone wakes & the guys get there then the show has to address it. Although I do not think Balca is going to back down unless Serkan straight up tells her he has zero interest in her and never will. Totally fine if that happens in the next episode.

Will Balca backdown even if she’s humiliated like that? She’s so delusional I’m not sure. What I am sure is that she’s dangerous. This came in before we saw the other two fragmans that have no mention of the kidnapping. Hard to picture how that is so easily resolved. Unless she frees herself (which seems unlikely in her groggy state) or maybe Melo’s future boyfriend is able to stop it before they get far?  Or I don’t know. I just know that I want to see Serkan lose his mind and all the other characters see Serkan lose his mind and then I want it to be over. LOL.

Anonymous said: As much as I am loving everything Edser, I cannot wait for Seiman, Balca and Grandma to be gone. And I am even more annoyed to think that the show might try to redeem all 3 characters. All 3 of them are truly awful people and no need to waste air time trying to make the audience think any different. Just my opinion...🤷🏻‍♀️. Show please finally expose those 3 for the psychos they are and get rid of them.

Bye bitches!  I don’t think there’s any redemption for Balca and Seiman. They both have poisoned/dosed people, hard to come back from that.  And there is no need to redeem them because neither is compelling enough to be a long-term character. But maybe Granny, we probably will see a redemption arc for her. 

Anonymous said: i know you were worried a few weeks ago that with ayse leaving as writer, we probably wouldn't have the same sort of comedy as previous episodes... but istg the whole kiz isteme scene, especially with chef alex, had me almost crying with laughter. especially when serkan off the cuff just goes "well if that's an option..." to everyone misunderstanding alex "wanting" ayfer for 2 nights and then eda ready to beat him with the flowers he bought her... comedic gold lmao.

SO GOOD! I was thrilled to see that sort of comedy, the sort of comedy we’d come to expect, from these writers. I think it bodes very well indeed!  

That scene was amazing. I know Neslihan said that much of it was improvised. Probably that line from Serkan (since Serkan is SO out-of-his-mind in love I’m not sure he could even joke about having Eda only two nights a week! LOL) was improv from Kerem, and Aydan asking about the other nights, and Seyfi bringing up the weekend. And Eda’s very Hande-esque “Ser-KAN.” 

I just love rewatching that scene and checking out everyone who is breaking character and just losing it. Cagri most of all. He’s blurred aback there but you can see Ferit spends the whole time laughing or trying to stifle a laugh. Reminds me of Cagri in the scene in 18 when they’re watching the security footage he was losing it in that scene as well. 

Anonymous said: i'm scared - I think they are really about to give us all of these happy EdSer scenes only to have something happen RIGHT before the wedding ceremony due to Babaanne. Based on the last episode, I don't think there's any chance of a breakup (knock on wood) but what if Serkan gets arrested, goes to jail for 2 years, and we get a time jump?

This was sent before the last two teasers, so yes I think something is gonna happen. We shall see!  I don’t really think Serkan going to jail for 2 years is in the cards, at least I hope not!  Besides if Babaanne did that she would have no hopes of ever reconciling with Eda, so that seems unlikely she’d follow through and leave him there for so long a time. 

Anonymous said: With the last week's sex scene, they did a lot of fade outs but the scene was basically still there so it wasn't much wasted effort for the actors. But for what they're teasing in episode 28 - idk how they can get away with showing them in the shower at all if Serkan lifting Eda with her clothes on had required blurring? Is Eda dropping her robe even pushing it? It's intriguing indeed.

Great questions. We’re 36 hours from finding out (well I'm longer than that because I wait for the English subs, hee hee) All I know is I want to see these scenes.. one way or another!