#and both Alm and Celica were important to fixing Valentia

[seasaltmemories]

To Live As Free Men and Women

Over and over again I hear the conflict of echoes summarized as “shifting from relying on gods to relying on humanity’s own accomplishments.”  And on the surface that makes perfect sense.  All the endgame quotes are about refusing to bow down to Duma and wanting to fight for their world.  

However this reading has always not sat well with me because of two things.  First this celebration of humanity’s individual strength is not brought up until the last moments of Act 5.  To call it the main theme when so much of the earlier conflict was about class feel disingenuous.  Second, this reading tends to pit Alm and Celica as opposites where Alm shows Celica the light.  Aside from disliking the convenient dismissive treatment of the female protagonist, my obvious bias aside, it just isn’t good storytelling to have one of your leads solely exist to be wrong.  Not to mention the game is going for a sort of dualism between the two of them, so to paint Celica’s route as just one mistake is short-sighted.

So the question remains, what is the main theme of Echoes?  Does it have a theme?  Regardless of your thoughts on the game, it still sends a message, every piece of art does, even if it is as banal as “good will always triumph,” that is still a theme.  So to examine echoes, thoroughly we have to find a thread that manages to link the entire game together.

The best place to start is obviously the beginning.  After the opening video.  We are given a little exposition dump about the state of Valentia.  Two countries and two gods, one emphasizing war and the other emphasizing peace.  Makes sense, it is pretty obvious which one we’re supposed to root for and what country we’ll be following.  Cue the prologue where after everyone was so excited to meet the knight in the woods, he turns out to be totally willing to murder children.  It would be so easy to write Slayde off as a bad apple but the narrative makes no attempts to try and act as if anything about him is non-standard.  If anything the start of Act 1 goes out of its way to detail just how rotten Zofia is.  It’s fitting that Alm joins a rebellion first and foremost, and it is not until Act 3 Rigel really becomes an antagonist.  And much of Act 1 is targeting Zofia’s own corruption, its bandits and power-hungry nobles.  Despite being massive problems, Alm rushes headlong into them, wanting nothing more than to protect people.

Act 2 starts similarly, Celica learning of just how horrible the pirates are, and how they have been allowed practically free reign of the seas.  She has even fewer reasons to get involved, considering her party is literally five people, but she can’t secure safe passage otherwise so let’s do this.  If it takes fighting necrodragons then she will fight necrodragons.

Despite both of their reckless behavior, they accomplish real change and make things for the better.  And so after growing up into the people they are today, Alm and Celica in an obviously heartwarming manner.  Except quickly things tilt sideways.  

Celica’s hypocritical behavior has been long-pointed out, wishing him to avoid bloodshed after just killing a pirate king, but things still stay civil until this moment.

“Alm: Nrgh… If I didn’t know any better, I’d swear I was speaking to a blue blood. My station doesn’t matter, Celica. I’m here because I was called. I have a duty to perform, and I’ll perform it. No more, and no less.

Celica: Oh, Alm…

Alm: Do you think I WANTED this fight? This all started because Lima IV went and angered the empire. If you wish to point fingers, point them at the ruler who failed his people. It’s his fault we’re in this mess.”

Alm points to Lima and the system that failed Zofia, and while he is not wrong, as the Zofian heir, Celica is just as much a part of that system.  And to have someone so important to her throw the failings of the state at her feet, when all her life she has simply tried to survive, feels like the worse betrayal.  And when Alm still expects her to hold responsibility for all those mistakes (even if he doesn’t directly ask it of her) she explodes.  Now obviously Alm didn’t know how his words would impact her, and Celica was the first to go on the offensive, but often this discussion gets characterized as just being about violence, when that discussion is just a footnote to the real conflict.

Starting with Alm, Act 3 opens with Alm finally meeting Berkut face to face, someone who represents all of Rigel’s teachings about power and strength.  While a fearsome opponent, he has an utter meltdown after Alm’s army beats him.  As they go on their way to face Desaix, even Clive starts to fail Alm by doubting him and questioning if it is worth it to try and save Delthea, and depending on how well you play the next few levels, he really might fail Alm such as when/if Mathilda dies and he blames Alm for her death.  While he still will eventually come around to believe in Alm once again, we see that even after retaking Zofia, the old order is still not completely gone.

Celica meanwhile has to confront another outlaw king, but this time Greith is more personal, aside from people in her army having been directly harmed by him, there’s this lingering thread of Greith only having been able to grow so powerful because of Lima’s negligence.  In-universe there is no reason she has to go and stop him, it is a significant detour from her pilgrimage, still she refuses to enable this injustice.  Greith warns her that there will always be another one like him, and when they arrive at the temple, Mila is gone and unable to fix everything like she wanted to do.  So Celica does what she has been running away from her entire life, she reveals her status as the lost princess and promises to protect Zofia and Mila.

However while this is a good choice both for her development and from a logical standpoint, we start to see that even it is not without consequences in the Act 4.  Determined to save Mila, Celica eventually comes into contact with Jedah, who says as long as she gives up her soul to Duma, he will return Mila.  Now while Celica is often lambasted for this choice, let’s look at how she sees this and why she doesn’t immediately distrust him.

While we have seen Jedah be a creep all game, this is the first time Celica has seen him, and while he is othered and marked evil with a lot of traits, such as his blue skin, how stupid would it be if in real life you refused to work with people because “they looked evil” not to mention he is the leader of a similar faith, it would be like if a protestant Christian talked with the Pope.  Jedah is a scumbag but Celica has no reason in her eyes to immediately distrust him/assume he is lying.

And having traced Celica’s actions up until now, how she hates the suffering of others and will do anything in her power to fix things, why would she not consider herself a worthy exchange for Zofia’s restoration?  With Conrad’s reappearance, there’s even another heir ready to take over.  All her life she’s been confronted with her father’s failure, and what kind of ruler would she be if she followed in his footsteps?  

Still despite this mindset, she does not go to Duma Tower to die.  She plans to see Mila and rescue her first and foremost.  But when it looks as if Mila is completely gone and impossible to recover, she decides she will at least try and protect those she loves.

Before we can look at how that decision go, we need to return back to Alm.  In Act 4, we learn that Rigel is pretty much as corrupt as Zofia.  People like Nuibaba and Jerome manipulate good people like Zeke and Tatiana purely for their own selfish gain.  Throughout all this Alm is treated as if he is already King of Zofia, which Alm never really confronts and very obviously chafes at the thought.  He stands poised to become a living legend, when horror of all horror he ends up being the one to kill his own father.  

While Rigel welcomes him with open arms as there prince, Alm finds no joy in the title and learns that all his hard work was just to fulfill Rudolf’s plans.  And the closer he gets to the climax the more and more trauma he suffers,  having to kill his only remaining family left, Berkut having gone mad from his failure to live up to Rigel’s ideals of power over everything.  In the end it culminates in Alm having to even kill the woman he loves.

The only thing that keeps this story from becoming the tragedy we first saw at the beginning of the game is the fact Mila takes pity on them and decides to release Falchion for Alm.  So to act as if the events of Echoes were purely fueled by human ingenuity is disingenuous.

So what was the point of this little recap?  Well when you look closely you see it is not just Duma and Mila who failed them, but the entire way their world was structured, the sins of their fathers who created/maintained a world where the weakest were always exploited the most.  A world where they were denied happiness and set up to fail.  Celica has her entire life defined by being a part of this system, less an individual person and more a title.  What use was she as an individual, if she didn’t give her all for a country her blood had left down?  And Alm was denied a family, and forced to kill them simply because of Rudolf’s plan, even if it was for the greater good.  The world Duma and Mila set-up centuries ago is not the type of world these people need anymore.  Killing them is not enough, they have to change the entire structure of society as they know it. It’s why they get rid of Rigel and Zofia in the end to create the One United Kingdom, because only then can they start fresh, free from the influences of before.

Now some might say, why explain make such a big deal over such a minor detail?  Gods, society, what’s the difference?  But like I said earlier a theme needs to encapsulate the entire work, not just the climax.  And society’s failing manifest in multiple ways in Echoes, from classism, to tragedy of Sonya’s family, to Valber’s loss.  From start to finish Echoes never lets you forget what a broken world Valentia is.  And to fix it you can’t just take Alm’s impulsive idealism or Celica’s country-bound devotion.  Sometimes you need both, and to attack the problem at the source of its roots.

[jasperlion]

Peace and War — very much based on dialogue/meta

Alm has an interesting view upon war, peace and all of their portents, although most is likely based on how Mycen raised him, more of soldier and leader (empathically/charismatically/but specifically a military one, being a general himself before his discharge) than anything else.

Of the following conversation I’ll highlight the important points on this, since I don’t want to lose the context of said conversation for the sake of what I want to talk about (since it’s important to the topic, too).

Alm: Look, I’ve heard from the others. I know the drought’s made Zofia a scary place. People are starving, and many have turned to thievery and plunder. Brigands loot villages for a mere sack of grain, and soon they’ll be at OUR door! And don’t think I haven’t heard what the Rigelian army has been up to. They’ve been crossing the border for years in violation of the Divine Accord. And with that sacred bond broken, now the Terrors have resurfaced as well… Mycen: …All true. Alm: Zofia is full of innocent people who are looking for help. Please, Grandfather. I want to make a difference in a world bigger than a handful of houses. I want to see all the amazing places you’ve told me about— that Celica told me about! Mycen: Suppose you do set forth with your sword and your wits. So what? Alm: …… Mycen: Will the grand story of your life be how you met the end of a brigand’s axe? Before you dream of changing the world, learn your damned place in it. And no more talk of leaving. -Mycen leaves- Alm: …What’s his problem?! Why teach me to use a sword if you’re not going to let me fight? Every day in this place is exactly the same as the next. I know I’m meant for more than this! But you have to let me find it!

--

Alm: Lukas! Were you able to speak with my grandfather? What did he say? Lukas: He said no. Sir Mycen made it clear he has no intention of joining the Deliverance. Alm: What? But he’s ridiculously strong! He could defeat some stuffy chancellor with his eyes closed! Why would he refuse when so many people are suffering? Lukas: I cannot speak to Sir Mycen’s thinking, but it seems we misplaced our hopes. I’ll have to return to our hideout and bring Sir Clive the ill news. Perhaps Mycen has simply grown too old for the battlefield.

--

Alm: I’m just saying we could do it together. …Fighting, I mean. Not the lance. Grandfather trained all of us, right? Not just me. You already know how to use a sword and a bow. So what’s the problem?

--

Alm: What? They’ve taken a prisoner?! Lukas: Alm? Let’s just be calm and… Alm?! Alm, wait, don’t — Alm: Hold it, you lecherous pigs! Brigand: Huh? Who the hell are you? Alm: Release the woman you’re holding at once, or else

Battle has always been a solution for Alm, but not in the way of savagery or wanting to subjugate, as much as it is to defend. All of his focus on the problems are what he can stop with his physical strength to protect innocents who are suffering. He is not beyond killing those who attack others to meet his goals, but he’s also not beyond parley and seeking from his opponents a more peaceful solution (provided they aren’t already doing something dastardly, like looting, attacking people, kidnapping them, etc). All in all, those are the views of someone growing up under a general, views necessary for someone whom his father and surrogate grandfather both intended to go to war in the first place and fight.

Even so, despite his willingness to draw the blade, he’s not willing to kill on sight (usually) unless weapons are already drawn. He’s rather compassionate to a fault, which stops him from attacking others without question even when he jumps to the wrong conclusion, not unless he has seen them do shit with his own two eyes (that’s pretty much how you strike the match to his temper and killing intent fhkJDKHD).

Alm: Don’t blame yourself, Lukas. Sir Clive sent you to Ram Village. right? You didn’t have a choice. If blame lies with anyone, it’s him. Lukas: …… Alm: Regardless, standing here accomplishes nothing. We need a plan. I assume this Clair person is still alive, right? In that case, we just have to take back the Southern Outpost and save her!

Really, his solutions always involve getting in a scuffle to save someone when he knows they were both wronged and are in trouble. And he jumps to conclusions and is quick to pin blame.

Of note is that instead of ordering a chase of Desaix and the Rigelian detachment with him, he instead decides to stay within the castle. He does this again after Berkut’s mirror smash, ordering his men rest instead of give chase to the fleeing Rigelians. Alm may be focused on battle as a means to an end, but he’s not at all for eliminating all who stood in his path or destroying them. (Gaiden Alm would say different here, lfmao)

It can be a little confusing when Alm has always been about compromise when there’s a misunderstanding — surely the whole thing makes him butt heads with himself... and it does! His argument with Celica is one of the biggest demonstrations of this, but there’s another thing I want to touch first.

Silque: Sir Alm, what did you see? Alm: It was… It was so clear! Silque, it was horrible! Silque: Be calm. What you saw in the vision is not the present. The Mother is either telling you what could be…or what once was. Her power is sight. Alm: So the vision is something that’s going to happen? Silque: Something that COULD happen. If the vision was ill-boding, perhaps it was a sign— a sign that the Mother wishes for you to take action in order to prevent it. Alm: ……

Alm’s reasons to continue pressing forward with the war despite Celica’s pleas is both his will to make a difference and the fact that he was called to do it. Mila sent him a vision that if things continue and he does nothing, all of Zofia will die. Her vision sets him directly at odds with Celica, who recieves one that should Alm continue on his path, he will die (and everyone he loves will die on his way to get there). 

They are directly contrasting visions, albeit Celica’s was likely a warning to get her off the island before the Cantor arrived and likely killed everyone at the priory (you know the one, the one on the lonely boat who implies he was on his way for her). Anyway, this isn’t about that, so fast forward to the argument itself with this in mind: His feeling of duty to see the war through was to save lives, but his focus was not to invade Rigel, merely push them all the way back.

Alm: …Wow. That’s quite the story. I’m trying to picture you swashbuckling pirates, and… Yeah. Just…wow. Celica: I didn’t mean to swashbuckle anyone. It just sort of…happened. But forget all that for the moment. Alm, you aren’t REALLY planning to fight the Rigelian Empire, are you? Alm: Listen, it’s not… It’s not something I chose. They were the ones who attacked us. Celica: But there must be a way to resolve things other than bloodshed, no? Alm: That’s a pretty thought, Celica, but I’m not sure it’s true. If it were, no one would be risking life and limb on the battlefield. Celica: Is it really so naive? Zofians and Rigelians are both people of Valentia, are we not? I know we can reach some kind of accord if we just try! Besides that, I… I just can’t imagine Emperor Rudolf is the monster some claim him to be. Alm: It doesn’t matter what sort of man he is. The Rigelian Empire chose to cross Zofia’s border—that’s a fact. We aim to drive back the invaders. Nothing more. Celica: But why do YOU have to lead this rebellion? Mycen’s grandson or no, you’re neither knight nor noble. So why make yourself a target like this?! Alm: Nrgh… If I didn’t know any better, I’d swear I was speaking to a blue blood. My station doesn’t matter, Celica. I’m here because I was called. I have a duty to perform, and I’ll perform it. No more, and no less. Celica: Oh, Alm… Alm: Do you think I WANTED this fight? This all started because Lima IV went and angered the empire. If you wish to point fingers, point them at the ruler who failed his people. It’s his fault we’re in this mess. Celica: That’s not… Well, so what if it is? Maybe you should go become king if it’s such a damnably easy job! Alm: What? Celica, that’s not— Celica: You’re awfully free with accusations for a boy with no idea what royalty entails! And now that you’re a “hero,” I imagine the throne is next on the list, is that it? Alm: No, it’s not like that at all, Celica! I just want to keep Zofia SAFE! Besides, there’s an heir. A princess of the royal family may have survived. If she turned up and fixed all this, I’d happily return to Ram. You could…come with me, you know? It’d be like old times.

Hoooo, other than Alm and Celica here fanning flames (flames Alm didn’t even know existed, and flames Celica did not realize were alight at all due to Alm’s previous confrontations with nobles (notably Fernand)) this shows a lot of Alm’s thinking. 

While he’s very gung ho and willing to fight for a cause, and even kill for it, he’s not alright with it having to be the solution (even if he’s okay with using it as a solution). Basically, it’s the only way he knows he can help with the problem, and he is fine with doing it, but he’s not fine with having to do it. If there are other options, he’d take them. That’s the biggest takeaway, really, since he doesn’t just speak those thoughts, but acts upon them. Jumping right to the start of Act 4 now...

Alm: …… Clive: A word, Alm? Alm: Clive! Did we receive a reply to our petition? Clive: Unfortunately, no. The empire’s silence is likely its answer. I believe it wise to resign ourselves. Emperor Rudolf has no intention of treating for peace. He means to continue his march on Zofian soil. Alm: Damn… Clive: Our men are approaching their limit. And Rigel’s climate is far colder than what they knew in Zofia. Further delaying here will only sap their strength and morale. Alm: All right, Clive. I trust your judgment. Let’s get ready to march. Clive: Understood. I’ll pass word to the others and prepare them to cross into the empire. Alm: …… What’s all of this leading to?

Alm has legitimately sent a petition to Rudolf to stop his march into Zofian soil. As per his word, his aim was merely to drive back the invasion, then request that the Rigelian’s cease trying again. His attempts for peace, or at least a meeting for parley, are met with silence, and yet he waits until Wyrmstym/Winter before finally heeding Clive’s advice and engaging in a march. Who knows how long he had between Pegastym//Autumn and Wyrmstym to wait, but it’s implied it’s been long enough for a courrier to make it to the Empire’s capital, wait for political deliberation and receive a response, and then some.

And most importantly...

Alm: Listen, Celica. I know you sacrificed your own life to protect me and the others. But I never wanted that. I couldn’t ever be happy in a world you died to create! Celica: Oh, Alm… I’m sorry. I’m so, so sorry. Alm: Don’t apologize. Just know that I need you, all right? Without your wisdom, all I know how to do is fight whatever’s in front of me. So please… Will you fight with me? Believe in me. Believe in US. Believe in our combined strength!

Alm is very much aware that his skills lie in battle to resolve a conflict or problem, and as much as he has stated to dislike meaningless fights or struggles that can be avoided (as noted by his attempt to speak to some enemies (like witches) to try and dissuade them from attacking, or willingness to listen to Tatiana and thus speak to Zeke at the start of the fight with Jerome), and has even been noted to be a compassionate/kind leader (your choices as the player aside if you decide to kill everyone on ‘defeat boss’ missions lfmao), enough that Rigelians know this already and Rudolf can positively affirm it.

It makes him a mixed bag of emotions for this reason, because he feels terrible about what he’s good at doing, but he feels its the only way he can help.

Anyway, this was too long a post to just say that, but it’s what it is at its core. Alm is down to fight, especially if it’s someone he sees doing something vile, but as a means to an end he feels if it’s unnecessary it should be avoided (even if he feels its the only skill he has, even if it’s not particularly true). This compassionate side of him does not show at all when he feels it’s someone who deserves it, however (like Slayde and Desaix), which is probably something considered a flaw by some, maybe a dangerous one in a leader. It’s kind of fortunate that he has a well-maintained moral compass, I suppose, because this kind of thinking could lead straight to hell otherwise.

[freshaslime]

My take on Prologue-Ch. 2 on AlmxCelica

With the game still fresh on my mind, I decided to write how I take this pairing because I find them interesting to talk about. I cut it until Act 2 because it gets long and might do it for the next acts but we’ll see.

Under the read more because of spoilers for the whole game.

First of all, let’s talk about their first meeting in Ram Village 7 years prior the main game started. Celica, who was around 10 if I got her age right, came to Ram Village after Mycen rescued her from Slyde and Desaix’s attempt to kill her and Conrad. She was trapped in a house fire with no one else and knowing that her brother, who was the closest person she had, was not seen anywhere. Not to mention she heard in the house fire that Slyde wanted to kill her, she knew she was hunted. So when she arrived in Ram Village, all the fear and sadness took a toll on her and made her close herself. This is where Alm’s attempt helped her tremendously. Alm was patient with her, he didn’t leave her when she snapped at him, and the most important thing, she could feel that all of Alm’s actions were sincere.

You may ask how do I know Alm was sincere. The answer is because Alm did all that because he has a selfish reason. Alm grew up in Ram Village all of his life and was never allowed to go out by Mycen under any circumstances. Now, if I know one thing about children is that they will either do or be curious about what the adults say they can’t do and in Alm’s case, he became extremely curious of the outside world. Then one day Celica came, Mycen wouldn’t tell him where she was from, but he didn’t care. Celica was someone from outside of Ram Village, he probably thought that she had seen, done, experienced things he could only dream of. For Alm, Celica was his window to the outside world and there was no way he would let her to stay silent while she was in Ram. 

Their friendship when they were little was important for them as they were exactly what each other needed and something they cherished that when Celica had to move to Novis after Slyde found her, both of them were heartbroken. Not in a romantic way mind you, but it hurt them nonetheless. 

Fast forward to the main game timeline, Alm was getting more impatient each day for wanting to leave the village and then Lukas came. It was his chance to answer to the calling he had been feeling when he was grew up and also to see Celica again. He fought his way to the Deliverance HQ to get an offer to lead the group by Clive. Suddenly, he had a lot of responsibilities, more than he thought he could handle, judging from Alm wanting Clive to keep his expectation low, but he didn’t back down. He had seen the outside world and it wasn’t something that he liked, so he wanted to change it for the better and if that means he had to be the leader of the Deliverance then he’d try to do it.

In Novis, Celica had a dream about Alm and King Rudolf having a duel. Knowing it was a sight given by the turnwheel and timed with The King’s death, she knew the sight was something that would likely happen. So to prevent that, she decided to go Mila’s Temple to ask for The Mother’s help (keep in mind that the Zofians were thought to be dependent of Mila’s blessings and help) to prevent that from happening. She wanted to resolve the conflict in peace. It’s a naive thought from her, but it’s all because of Mila’s teaching. Mae’s “let’s go see Mila so she could clean this mess” attitude she showed from time to time is probably the most obvious proof of it. I didn’t think Celica was as naive as that, but she clung to it because that was the only way to achieve peace that she knew of. 

That’s why she was shocked when she heard about the Deliverance overtaking Zofia’s Castle and Alm was its leader. At this point Celica had started to see what’s going to happen, Alm leading the Deliverance and drove off the Rigelans to its border and him crossing the border to have a duel with Rudolf, making her dream came true, but she kept it down because she wanted to hear it from Alm himself. 

Then the reunion happened. Both of them were happy to see each other and had their happy moment together (the hug scene is super cute btw). Then it’s time for Celica to confront Alm about her worries and they were true. Alm would fight the Rigelians, making him one step closer to Rudolf and brought Valentia in flames of war. Then Alm blamed King Lima IV (which is funny for me because Lima means five in my language) for being a bad ruler. Celica did say that she didn’t think of Lima as her father and she knew that he wasn’t a good ruler, but on the other hand, she also knew that being a blue blood wasn’t easy and that it came with a price, which she almost payed. So she got angry. Her emotion made her accusing Alm for wanting to be the king and then Alm mentioned about the missing princess and that he’d happily give the throne to the princess to fix what’s happening so he could go back to Ram with Celica. Now this didn’t sit well with Celica at all. Hearing that Alm wanted to give her ALL of the responsibility to fix everything while he was the one who made it into a bigger mess was infuriating for her. Like Boey said in the start of Act 3, if Celica announced herself as the missing princess then it means she had to lead the Deliverance and the war itself, something that she wanted to stop at the first place. 

I like this exchange because it shows that even though these two were important people, aka the leader of the Deliverance and a princess, they were still teenagers who said the wrong things and had a lot of emotions. Alm didn’t know who Celica truly was and was only trying to be honest to her. Sadly, his honesty wasn’t something that Celica needed at that time. Celica herself was in a difficult position. She couldn’t reveal herself, for reasons I have stated, and also because now she was once again hunted, this time by the Duma Faithful, though she didn’t know about it at this point. Either way, I don’t think she wanted Zofia and everyone in it to be involved by the hunt, so she couldn’t say anything about it and along with what Alm’s said, the premonition, and everything else in between, made her exploded to Alm and even more determined to see Mila.

As for Alm, Fernand was Alm’s big example on how people could change so he knew when Celica stormed out of the castle that she had changed too. So he decided to focus back on the Deliverance and carry out his missions.