#and i think will being linked to that confrontation between mike and vecna is likely bc

[chirpsythismorning]

I am not sure how to respond to your answer because a lot of the things you have said were kinda... irrelevant?

My main point was that I think there's more stuff to be addressed with Will's character. That is why I think he's going to be targeted first. I never said he'd be the sole main character of S5. I just think there's more stuff that is to be addressed with his character. Especially because we do not know a lot of mysteries about him. We still do not know why he got targeted in S1, his S1 and S2 supernatural stuff have yet to be addressed. We do not know if he has powers or not and if that's the reason why he got targeted. We do not know why he is connected to Vecna and that has to be addressed. We do not know why the Upside Down is stuck on the time he went missing. His parallels to Vecna are not addressed and if that plays a role in him being targeted back in S1 are not yet addressed. We do not know why Will is connected to UD and how to break off his connection to Vecna and UD, etc.

I've never even said that Noah would receive more cash or would have his name appear as the first name on the show. I do not even have any idea where that came from. I am just pointing out that there are more stuff to be addressed with Will's character, thus why it makes sense for him to get targeted first to address those questions and plot points. That's my main point... I have no idea what to answer to your other points because a lot of things you said were irrelevant. Thanks for the answer anyway!

I'm sorry if I rambled! I got the impression that you thought because Will was said to be central in s5 by the Duffer's, then that means he automatically is at the center related to the overall story, and I sort of attributed that to Vecna as well. And so I felt the need to get logistical and let you down easy bc I notice there are a lot of bylers taking that Duffer snippet and are using it to like blast milkvans and say Will is the main now and El isn't anymore, which... just isn't the case. And this is coming from a will has powers and byler endgame truther. If that's not you at all then I apologize for making that assumption and will drop that whole side of the argument entirely!

As I replied to another ask just previous, I do think that if Mike is targeted, the endgame goal would be for it to somehow be a step in the right direction for Vecna to get to Will.

I think s5 is going to involve Will at the forefront when it comes to a lot of these questions being answered related to him going missing. And I do think, assuming that the whole Mike being late thing was intentional, it's very likely the opening for s5 could again somehow involve Mike being late yet again. Seeing that trend come full circle in a way that is shocking and satisfying. It just so happens that Vecna is the big bad this time around, and Mike is long overdue for some self-reflection, and so I was speculating with a few others about that possibility, because it's there.

S5 has like 10 hours of running time to account for. And Will confronting Vecna is probably going to take up a good chunk of it. And even still, as Vecna has done in past seasons, he's going to continue to be calculated.

S5 is likely not going to start with Will and Vecna simply facing off with all their cards on the table, because that would be too easy? And a little boring?

It could very likely happen where we see Vecna target Will right from the jump at the start of s5, but it's also more likely something would go wrong, leading to a delay of sorts. And I think it's going to lead to another confrontation later on, followed by several others until the final battle. But there is definitely more to it than just Vecna targeting Will, because after all that is presumably the end goal. And so it's a matter of what it takes to get to that point.

And I think just like in previous seasons, Vecna is going to use all of his moves possible if it means getting what he wants, and as far as we know, he likes tormenting people over their guilt and shame, often what he himself played a role in causing them in the first place. And he's done it with the most random of characters, even if it seemed insignificant at the time, it played it's part in his plan.

Tormenting the love of Will's life, who also happens to be the kid who has been thwarting his plans for a while now, seems like enough to at least not rule out Vecna targeting Mike, for calculated reasons.

I'm honestly not even as obsessed with the prospects of Vecna vs. Mike as I used to be post-s4. Like it was just such a concept back then bc there was so much unknown about Mike. I do think it's going to happen in s5, though I'm not as excited about it as I probably was back then, I think I'm more so just defensive at the argument that it's super unlikely and people are reaching for speculating, bc all any of us are doing is speculating based on what's been shown to us. For all we know we're all wrong.

But now with the whole twelvegate theory and Will has powers in general being a commonplace fan theory on here, I've come across so many unknowns about Will after rewatching over the last month doing my own research, and that has honestly been interesting me more than anything else as of late. It's even gotten to the point now where a lot of byler evidence appears to also be either/or willel wonder twin evidence... and so I am very excited to see how that could pan out!

Though this has also made me realize that 4 seasons of building up Will's sexuality out in the open, and with him being swamped with powers obligations next season, even more so confirms this concept of Mike being vecna'd bc... what else does he have going on? His best friend and ex gf are busy dealing with family drama, he's gonna need to get his own head together bc that doesn't really have anything to do with him. His arc is more so connected to his guilt and shame and him resolving that is going to be necessary for both Will and El to feel secure in their relationship with him in the end. I do think they all deserve that closure. Will and El will definitely get closure with one another, but I know that Will is going to be the hardest nut to crack. He is NOT going to believe Mike, unless it's clear to him what Mike has went through and is currently going through, and vice versa.

All of their arcs overlap, though I know everyone has favorites and yes some actors are billed more than others like i rambled about, but all the pieces matter in the grand scheme of things, even if it doesn't directly impact the endgame goal in the moment, otherwise there would be no story to sit here and obsess over until we get to the end.

I hope that cleared up some of my nonsense and hopefully I made a little more sense this time! Thanks for coming back to clarify!

[notnahberrie]

So the show has established that Vecna was the one who created the Mind Flayer based on his fascination with spiders.

Just hoping now that we get an explanation as to why he was targeting Will primarily in seasons 1 & 2, especially the first one when Will somehow managed to survive in the Upside Down.

I know there are multiple theories floating around as to how he did it, a few being:

Will has powers Honestly a 50-50, but at this point, I doubt so because S5 seems a bit late to suddenly announce another kid has powers...

Will was just good at hiding More possible than no. 1 really, because our boy has had almost zero action scenes showcasing any sort of badassery since S2... correct me if I'm wrong! Seriously, I would love to be wrong.

Will and Vecna have a psychic connection Thinking about the parallels between Vecna and Will... COULD THERE be an intended link between them? I mean, I wrote in my other ST post that Will could have shaped the upside down... since Vecna likely would have no idea what Hawkins looked like after he was taken in by Papa Bad Touch, plus the scene where Nancy noticed the date in the UD was frozen on the day Will went missing. A super important scene, I am 100% convinced. BUT WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN???

Well, going off the third point, I believe Will was originally intended to be a spy for Vecna like Mike deduced in S2. And Will was originally meant to die once the link was severed, but didn't because Joyce, Jonathan, and Nancy were awesome and expelled the literal demon from within him

So what is Vecna going to do with Will now? Hmm, a spy that can't spy anymore isn't of much use, but wait...

Will still has his 'Vecna senses' right? He can sense whenever Vecna is coming or is here. Doesn't that sound like an incredibly frustrating liability to have, considering how Eleven has now gotten stronger?

What do you think Vecna is going to do to ensure this 'weakness' is removed?

In my opinion, it is going to boil down to Vecna either choosing to convert Will into one of his soldiers by taking over his mind or transforming him into something grotesque... hopefully the former because the latter pains me to think about.

Also my Byler shipper two cents but Mike finding out about Will's lie in the van and confronting him, the truth about Will's feelings coming out, and obviously S4 MIKE WOULD NOT DEAL WELL BC HE HAS BEEN SUCH A POODOO SO FAR –– so Will gets emotionally traumatized and the negative emotions allow him to get possessed.

Everyone is going to be in danger during S5 but Will... Will is going to be the catalyst for something BIG to shift the tides. As many wise theorists on here have said, it started with and ends with Will!

[strangertheories]

Do you think Vecna wants something from Will? Do you think he would kill Will if he had the chance, or do you think he would want him alive?

I think that if Vecna wanted Will to be dead, Will would've been dead in S1. As great at Will is at hiding, we saw those grown men in Russia get absolutely demolished by the demogorgon; Will was a little kid with a gun. He also wasn't eaten by the demogorgon but instead had his airway blocked with a tentacle, ie something he could be brought back from. Personally I am of the theory that somehow the tentacle is what have him true sight as Vecna can make you see things so maybe that linked him to Will so he could flash Will into the Upside Down so he could flay Will. Which raises the question of 'why Will?' which I'll get to in a second.

The previous explantation doesn't the answer the question of how Will got to the Upside Down into the first place. They did mention in S3 that the gate weakened Hawkins meaning that's why the Russians could only open gates in Hawkins, so maybe the gate being so fresh made the boundary between universes really thin for a period meaning that explains the portal in Joyce's wall and also in the tree. I also saw a theory (@willel) saying that Will was always linked to Henry/Vecna and his true sight/universe hopping led him to accidentally flash into an alternate dimension in order to hide now that the boundary was weaker.

My current theory goes as such: Henry saw himself in a young Will. After Eleven opened the gate, the boundary between universes was weakened so he was able to mind hop like we saw in S4 and after seeing the mind of this young child, an outcast for not conforming to societal norms, he decided he'd be the beginning of his uprising against Hawkins. The weakening of the barrier could also explain how it is trapped on the day Will went missing. Anyways, he took Will to the Upside Down and then when he heard that Joyce and Hopper were going to rescue him, he planted the tentacle, giving a psychic connection between him and Will and more importantly, bringing demogorgons to our world through the slug thing.

What Vecna does in his mindscape affects the real world, so using this psychic connection, Will began flashing to the Upside Down where Vecna flayed him so Will could be part of his mind and be the very first soldier in the mind flayer's army. He wanted the flayed to kill everyone but not Will. Will sensed before being flayed that it wanted everyone dead except for Will because Vecna wanted Will to join him, like young Eleven, except with no chance to turn his back on him. After being de-flayed, the reason Will can sense Vecna and the Upside Down is because of that aforementioned psychic connection which was in fact not only from the mind flayer but the tentacle earlier.

So what does this mean for S5? I think Vecna is going to try and go after Will again. Will has so much trauma for Vecna to manipulate him with so I think Vecna might utilize that. The heroes don't understand why he's targeting Will over Eleven, but Will is starting to work out why. And then he confronts Vecna about it and Vecna explains to him, expecting Will to understand his message about conformity.

Will would reject because he doesn't want to harm his loved ones. Vecna would view these loved ones as a weakness of Will and go after them, in particular Johnathan, Joyce and Mike. Especially Mike because that would impact Eleven as well. But even after that, Will would refuse because Will is good deep down and Vecna could never understand that. The parallels between Henry and Will aren't meant to indicate a Will villain arc; it is to show that Will is the foil of Vecna.

I don't know if this makes any sense, it gets a bit off the rails in my S5 theories. Thanks for the ask and sorry my response took so long!

[blue-n-yellow]

okay i need to list off alllll my thoughts before vol2 drops,,

1) im so worried about johnathan i dont know why but i sweaaar im so convinced hes gonna get screwed over. can see him, mike, joyce and max getting incapacitated in some way,, (due to the whole poster thing) this then ties into the theory that lonnie is going to end up back in wills life again, which i can see! doesnt work with all the possible plots i see happening, but yk

2) im very very much so a supporter of will having powers, i def like the theory that mikes gonna get screwed over and we’re gonna have a cleric will moment- this in urn ties into my enjoyment of the thought that el isnt going to be enough to defeat vecna, not on her own, and that vol2 is gonna be depressing because it ends with vecna still an active threat

3) moving on to another bullet point for this, but i totally see the divide between hawkins and the upside down being eradicated, and both vecna and the mind flayer being problems in season 5. i really enjoy the theories that will is linked to the upside down, the theories that vecna has had his eye on will specifically, and i think its a good way of having that “return to season one” we were told wed get in season 5.

4) if neither will nor mike gets vecna’d i swear itll be my final straw. i prefer will getting vecna’d tbh because i dont,, want it to be that vecnas trying to kill him, i want it to be another attempt of the upside downs to get will, if that makes sense. like, i dont want will to be told his suffering is over, i want to see a return to his supernatural suffering, and i want this to be the first really blatant allusion to will having powers.

5) i def wouldnt mind mike getting vecna’d instead (if we can only have one), but i see a lot of people talking about how they want mike to be forced to confront his being repressed, and like,,, i do think the best advantage of mike being vecnad would be how blatant it would make his feelings, but like... i think thats something the audience would benefit from, whereas with mike,, i dont want mike to be ‘forced’ to confront (this is a byler blog) his feelings for will, weve seen how important mikes choices are when it comes to his expression of his feelings, and i think... like, whenever mike was more forced into things, it was the homophobia of the 80s that was forcing his hand, and it resulted in milkvan, which wasnt good for anyone. whereas with byler, that was mikes choice, mike showing initiative and acting on his feelings,, i want mike to feel safe and secure, i want him to feel like he can make the choice to be open with his feelings, and i want to see him choose what makes him truly happy. we can def see this happen if mike does get vecna’d, but still. i just think mike should have that development of his own accord because of what it means symbolically

6) while i can see party members being incapacitated, i donnn’t... think we’re going to see any of them straight up Die. (with the party here being defined as el, mike, will, dustin, lucas, max, and erica),, i can see max going into a coma, i can, again, see mike getting very badly injured (or even dying, once again, in a cleric!will situation), or can even see el/will getting fucked over, but i dont think we’re going to see any of them die, or even get “killed off” in the way hopper was in season 3

this is all that comes to mind right this second, but maybe ill add more before vol2 drops! adhd brain tingz </3