#and idk i just think fandom is so heavily built on community and i think it's an important part of fandom and idk

[sga-owns-my-soul]

this is something i have been thinking about basically since i got back into fandom and it feels especially relevant right now with some of the posts i've seen floating around

something that's very common to hear in fandom is "there's no ______ explanation for this" (fill in the blank with straight, normal, platonic, non-sexual, etc) and i get it, we're all guilty of it, i do it all the time, i think it's part of the fun of fandom is having a space to go insane about something and that's fine!

but i think it's also really really important to remember that there is literally endless ways to interpret something because no two human beings are the same, and the same thing can mean different things to different people

let's use me as an example. in my last relationship with my ex, we would regularly tell each other that we loved each other and wanted to spend our lives together and in that context, it was a very romantic sentiment. however, in my current relationship, we tell each other constantly that we love each other and we want to spend our lives together and there's not a single ounce of romanticism in either of us, because neither of us want or express romance to each other. most of my friends are convinced we're boyfriend/girlfriend, because to them our relationship WOULD be dating, but that doesn't mean we are

the same can be said about fandom. you can take a scene that is VERY romance heavy and one person might genuinely see that as a sexual expression, and someone else might genuinely see it as a platonic expression, and someone else might genuinely see it as a hateful expression, and i think it's really really important to remember that all of these takes are valid.

there's no one right or wrong way to interact with fandom (unless you're deliberately being harmful and hateful towards the characters and the community at large but that's a different topic of conversation) and i think people get really hung up on their takes and headcanons and forget that there's always going to be endless ways of interpreting fiction and that other interpretations are just as valid.

and this isn't to say you can't go insane about your blorbos or ships and you can't say they're obviously in love or whatever, because that's half the fun of fandom!! i just really wish people would realize that, no, there are actually multiple ways to view that scene or relationship and that's entirely valid

[rawmeknockout]

i have some thoughts about degrees of lewdity but this isn’t a review these are just my opinions and observations

i want to preface this by saying, although i like text based smut games, im not some connoisseur and i haven’t played that many. really my deepest exposure is fenoxo’s games and maybe a handful of others i haven’t played in a while.

so i totally went in blind, i have seen the names of characters floating around and ive read a fic or two about it on here if the set up or summary piqued my interest, but i already had some preconceived idea of what it was about and the general set up (i ended up so wrong lmao) so i didn’t bother looking up anything about it because i was fairly certain i knew it was about your player being in college and interacting with the town or whatever

i had the view it was like friday night funkin??? not in gameplay or story but like that generally it has a lot of hype around it and a pretty voracious community (i was already aware of mods for the game so i think that also made me think of fnf which also has a lot of mods) and that most of the appeal is the hype built up around the game. not saying that’s bad but that was my general idea/opinion of it idk why lmao

i was kind of white man jumpscared by the actual contents of the game. i didn’t find any of it triggering necessarily but i didn’t expect it to lean so hard into certain fetishes. im pretty desensitized to a lot of hardcore kinks in smut so it wasn’t a deal breaker for me bc i was still interested in checking out the game, and there’s options in the default game to turn off certain interactions, but i definitely think people should look up the trigger warnings for the game first and not just jump into it blind like i did. i had a totally different idea of the game so i didnt even think i needed to look up what it involved.

in my brief experiences of the game through the fandom, i imagined it as a college student in a sex game sorta akin to things put out by fenoxo now, but it’s more like the first Corruption of Champions (which you can only find through an internet archive these days probably because of the contents of the game idk if fenoxo has disavowed it or whatever but they’ve certainly left that project i believe because they also have a patreon that they rely on)

your character is a high schooler and i believe it’s mentioned they just turned 18? there’s a disclaimer that all characters are 18+ but i don’t think it’s ever mentioned in game or if it is its like a passing thing. not that like,, ages are ever heavily mentioned in any media but i know there are some people who would like it explicitly stated. in my opinion, going into any 18+ game, i just expect all characters to be 18+. id prefer them even older than that but ive never come across a game where i was jumpscared by a minor.

i think it’s set in a high school because that gives stricter penalties and set ups for consequences? if your in college and you skip class no one’s gonna hold it against you because you’re paying to skip school lol that’s the penalty. also high school tends to be a pretty traditional set up for a game it gives the creator the opportunity to involve a learning mechanic and sets a place for interactions and a structured time table for most of the week. another function is that, as a porn game, some people are in to being barely legal and an object of sexualization because of that. the game leans heavily on having authorities outside of the players control because as it turns out the whole town is essentially hell. we are straight up in the devils asshole right now and we don’t even know it.

one of the most stressful things going in on the first game is the need to make money, you owe money to the orphanage caretaker and you need it by the end of the week every week and this mechanic does NOT go away. it increases until it caps out at £2000. the game is in britain? so you know you’re in for a bad time.

the game is pretty hard going in i’m not gonna lie maybe im just a filthy casual when it comes to smut games but i found the penalties for repeated encounters, which are hard to escape from, racked up quickly. i was playing on normal but there is a soft mode, but i personally just wanted the regular experience of the game. i get that it’s realistic, in a sense, to have trauma and stress pile up quickly but if you let it get out of hand you get sent to the asylum!!! which is not much better!!! and when you get out you still owe money to Bailey when you haven’t been able to work 😭 very real very landlord

after playing the default game for a little bit i quickly searched for a better looking mod. part of the appeal of the game is the customizable character. i am fine with a gaia looking avatar but i just prefer the Bees mod avatar. i believe its one of the more popular mods but other than that i haven’t looked for any other, partly because i play in browser. i dont really like to download games if i can help it bc i play on ipad while im scrunched up in bed like a cozy shrimp.

my favorite named NPC is Sydney, followed by Avery. Avery gives you and has old man dick so im weak. Sydney, i haven’t played all of his content because i don’t want to lower his purity 😔 i know a lot of his content is locked behind that but he’s so sweet and cute i don’t want to. i will probably eventually. Sydney is your one bastion of normal interaction (other than Robin and even that isn’t true for long) in a sea of fucked up. Sydney also is a member of a cult. 😀 a cult that you can get involved in at your own risk. don’t do it.

the worst is probably Kylar. at least with high combat you can take care of Whitney, with Kylar he’s just a freak. he’s cute in some instances but in others he’s unbearable. he can also kidnap you and apply the stockholm syndrome status effect. 🤨

i generally, through every game i play, do the typical ‘good guy’ route. even in a game i have a hard time escaping the socially acceptable response and not doing the ‘right’ thing. this is true when i play COC or Trials in Tainted Space or really any game any genre. i’ll probably explore other routes but i wont be happy about it. idk i like to play good guy i like to be nice. my combat skills built up quick as a result because you will get into so many assault encounters but i think thats true regardless.

btw don’t bother with any other job unless you want to do sex work, just work the temp agency the entire week. it’s closed on weekends but it’s the most reliable source of money imo and doesn’t have a strict time table other than opening and closing. you can just go in and work whenever. if you get the boss to like you he’ll give you a bonus too.

i ended up looking for info on certain features and stories of the game which led me to reddit, as searches often do, and i inadvertently found out more info about that game AND the creator which dampened my idea of the game, but not necessarily in the way you would think. while i am generally enjoying playing, although it can be difficult bc it relies a lot on combat in interactions and you don’t like get to fight in a traditional sense (it can be hard to tell how ‘strong’ your character is i guess? lmao), i found out that despite the actual hardcore contents of the game, that include trafficking, there is no abortion feature. which is so funny to type out. however the creator has made it abundantly clear there will never be an abortion feature?? which okay i just have to say that’s a wild feature to have in game anyway but it makes sense!!!! because it’s a porn game where your character can get pregnant!!! but if you use the cheats version that is available in the options, you can delete a pregnancy HOWEVER it makes it very clear in the text accompanying the cheat that “this is not an abortion, this is a cheat”

look, deciding to add that is, in itself, betraying a sort of political stance no matter how much you wish to avoid it. i’ve heard through others that the creator wants to convey the actual trauma of SA, which obviously can include carrying a pregnancy you don’t want, however having an abortion you don’t want is also traumatic??? as someone with a vagina, living in a place where i cannot do as i wish with that vagina, it left me with a feeling of distaste towards the creator and the game. in a game where your creator can get SA’d BACK TO BACK you cannot then deal with the potential outcome of that??? you just have to like carry it if you don’t use the cheat version? it’s easy enough to access but the text accompanying it is blatant.

i believe that this is because the creator relies on donations on their website and because of the contents of the game they aren’t allowed to have a patreon (but don’t quote me on that because i haven’t checked the main site all i know is that certain games have had to change their contents bc patreon wouldn’t allow them to continue functioning on their site as is) which i am sympathetic to, however uuuh making a statement next to your cheat is in itself a way of signaling politics. in my opinion. as someone this actually affects. lol.

i think the creator has made a statement regarding some of the interactions as people in costume? maybe to like give plausible deniability? but like,,, the game is what it is because you made it that i would just lean in to it. they might have a hard time tho finding somewhere to platform their game or gather donations because of that, so i dont think its the weirdest thing for them to deny the contents of their game as how they appear. im sorta just shrug at this moment, i would prefer someone to just take their creation as it is but its probably more to do with the rules and stipulations of places like paypal and certain domains. i wouldn’t know. i dont mean to come off judgmental or like this is some horrible transgression, i get that collecting money online is a hassle if your main source is a smut game and i have no experience doing that so again shrug. if its what they have to do its what they have to do. again i think its like COC where its almost been wiped from the internet and remade into COC2 by the creators, and even then they’ve had to change some of the contents because patreon and paypal are pretty stringent about their rules.

i’ve skipped a lot of the contents of the game because first i think tumblr would nuke me from orbit but also a lot of it is genuinely very dark and triggering. this is not a game you should jump into without looking up the setting and gameplay prior. you should most definitely at least look through the advanced options before starting the game and look at each option you can toggle on and off because it will give you a better idea of what you’re in for.

[incarnateirony]

The heavily expanded, pinned masterpost of all the ways these dumb motherfuckers lost the plot literally years ago on production.

(links included to extended discussions of basic history reminders the world outside of patrick and the wincel bubble are largely aware of short of late fandom comers after S13 at latest; history he's all incredibly ignorant to)

(cut for length)

truly the funniest denial of the existence of or ability to fan pitch concepts is like

ok let's pretend. for a hot second. That any packages or emails or communications never made it. And it's all just. One Big Giant Fucking Coinkidink And We're Crazy.

Ok but. Bear with me here. If this is so obvious that even people that were banned from a server for some insane fandom drama coup that are still salty as fuck recognize what's going on because they were heavily involved, like our proverbial old bible keeper coming back to the server like--

ok hear me out but. Imagining. Nothing ever made it.

...doncha think it's kinda weird that we nailed it that close as a fluke so powerful even the Salty Banned Ones return? Like

you get that means we. Have a pretty good idea. Of where their heads are at least. Fucking... right? If this shit was any further up my ass I'd say they're subscribed to my youtu-ohw- how long ago was season 13 again? and oh man just wait until you hear who loves to read my mythos meta that you'd deny from a master post I know for a god given right from at least one person onboard that they're freaking obsessed with and share around. idk whatever dude, cope. there's been years of an ongoing rent-free fucking timeshare of fandom and authors in each other's headspaces and you're just fucking now figuring this out or hearing about the Wayward Daughters movement. just search the fucking tumblr tags or google it or something you oblivious numpties. You were apparently too busy peeing your pants crying everything was "just subtext" or "just meta" to realize fans and authors have been talking about a lot of shit for a long fucking time and already put shit on TV collaboratively.

Just. Tossing that the fuck out there for Patrick's remaining desperate followers to wrap their fucking skulls around.

and none of this, NONE OF THIS even brushes the surface of the actual history of reliable leakers or holders of generalized knowledge vs the people who have made a career out of being wrong for upwards of 7 years.

Somehow this dumb motherfucker can't figure out that even if it's all a coinkidink me knowing from the goddamn jump what the wholeassed intention was the second the season launched and who's pissed about what being cut might in the very least give me a rough fucking indicator of what jensen's looking to fix with Dean in the Winchesters. While ofc, Pat screamed to argue with me that it wasn't about letting go of the past bc Jensen was TOTES PERFECTLY CONTENT WITH THE ENDING before he got bricked in the face by the ET promo. He never gives up.

the funniest reality is they've spent so long trying to argue against the actual canon being the canon, and so poorly understand the canon, that they don't even understand fans have built in a metric fuckton of things into this show or attempted spinoffs over time. Like, those fans were literally talking to the authors about what the fuck they were doing all around and you guys didn't even apparently realize this during Wayward? And you literally crowed against everything like... people.... deadass... knew????????????? just because you could manage to piss off some 14 year olds that didn't know better. Fucking hell.

"NOBODY CAN KNOW WHAT THE AUTHORS WANT" no man, you're just the dumb motherfuckers that didn't. You were the illiterate bastards at the edge of the room that even the show authors looked at like that fucking red solo cup party pic.

hell i'm sure they'll try to blow that into some shit to salve their egos and feel large but no like not even as a particular anti threat or opposition or anything it was literally like "wow we're all collectively impressed people this stupid, stubborn, or tv illiterate exist, we kind of want to fucking study this like a bug."

A fucking fandom of shrieking cicadas oblivious to how loud and annoying the neighborhood considers them because they're too busy siren calling for weird fandom porn rights in canon discussions while being dragged all across the wholeassed internet and kingdom come by bluechecks ranging from media to psychologists to talking cats about that very shit and they're still making fucking confused cow sounds why the con markets got bleached.

And you know what? We didn't want credit any more than Wayward's folks did. Hell we were gonna keep it perfectly quiet so you couldn't fuck it up this time like yall did Wayward while claiming you didn't believe me until people that are my own antis now figured out what the fuck was happening. We were absolutely happy to leave you dumb motherfuckers in the dark.

But since it's out there now, yeah. Get the fuck out. We're the warriors that built this town. From dust.

Genuinely funny that these rubes are so fucking basic they can't draw the two point line between the How Wayward Happened dot and the Who And What I Talk About On My Fucking Blog From What Angle fucking dot. jesus christ. Don't even try to add the third data point dot of How The Winchesters Happened, you'll fucking shatter their mental capacity. Like there's a common fucking denominator here that I can't believe you guys haven't fucking figured out I have literally been posting about some of this since season nine, are you ok.

Oh wait considering you dumb motherfuckers were oblivious for years to the Literal Line Of Toy Ships At Wayward Cocktails that Berens specifically selected what from when while winking about not supposed to pick favorites all those many, many different years ago. You argued he was somehow on the wincest side because you were so fucking unplugged.

It all makes sense.

You guys genuinely don't know what fucking happened with Wayward. Omg.

[firelxdykatara]

kitty i can't wait for your thoughts of Shadow and Bone asdfasfaw

Ok well I just finished and I have so many fucking thoughts. Most good! Some, less so. Part of it may just be my bias because I’ve only read the Six of Crows duology and have little interest in actually reading the original trilogy, because I know how it ends and Leigh clearly hates me personally and doesn’t want me to be happy (/j), so I was already predisposed to be far more invested in the Crows and Darkling/Darklina segments (genuinely, the Mal/Malina scenes/storyline bored me to tears, and while I appreciate that the show went out of its way to change Mal’s character to make him much less of a toxic douchebag [I’ve read enough excerpts and explanations of his actions in the books to really loathe book!Malina], it isn’t enough to make me ship them when Darklina is right there), but I also don’t think it’s a stretch to say that the Crows absolutely stole the show.

It’s actually kind of funny, because I’d assumed they were only being so heavily marketed to hype the show up even more, since while there’s a lot of TGT/SoC fandom overlap they are also two fundamentally different genres and I’d wager there are a lot of people who are massive fans of one but not so enthused with the other, while remaining fairly insignificant to the overall plot. Turns out, they make up fully half of the show’s runtime (much to my delight). Which is part of what I think will help this series stand on its own, both as a book adaptation and simply as a fantasy TV series.

I’ll put more of my story-specific thoughts under a cut, so there’s lots of show spoilers to follow!

I know that a lot of early reviewers were saying that Alina’s motivations and storyline revolved too much around Mal, and that really held true for me. It made sense in the beginning--he was the only constant in her life, she was thrust into something new, terrifying, and completely unfamiliar, and they’d developed an unhealthy codependence as a coping mechanism for their childhoods and the traumas they faced, the lives they lead growing up in a war-torn country. But she started coming into her power, falling for the General--not just his power and charisma, but what she felt when she was with him. The way he helped her summon the sun, the way she felt free in a way she never had before.

Until it all went to shit--but the Darklina make-out scene in episode 5? Fucking iconic. Poetic fucking cinema. The way they were quite literally about to have sex on that wartable (and someone better write fic of that moment, what if they hadn’t gotten interrupted), and the General left, but then he ran back just to kiss her one more time... this is what OTPs are made of ok.

I think what really bothers me overall is that Alina ultimately lacked agency in her one storyline, pretty much the entire way through. She did make a few choices, but they were mostly incidental, and a lot of it was Alina desperately trying to get back to Mal rather than seizing her own power and destiny and running with it. The most prominent example is the end of episode 5--Alina is having happy make-outs and almost bones the General in his own war room, and then he leaves, and Baghra comes in and infodumps to her about how evil he is and how he’s only using her and she needs to escape.

I recognize that a lot of this is probably because that’s essentially what happened in the book and Leigh is an executive producer for the show so she has a lot of shot-calling power. However, I really think that even in the book this plotline would’ve been better-served by having Alina make these discoveries on her own.

For example, imagine that the letters which were used as framing devices for episodes 2 and 3 were vitally important to the plot, rather than being one-offs that are mentioned a few times but not really affecting much of anything. Alina begins to get suspicious when she doesn’t receive word from Mal, and she starts wondering if her letters are even reaching him--so she starts snooping. She finds ashes in the war room hearth, late at night,, and recognizes a fragment of Mal’s signature and larger piece of her own. She now knows that someone--possibly the General, but maybe that creepy priest guy, or someone else in the palace--is keeping her and Mal from contacting one another. So she starts snooping around even more. She asks the General leading questions, trying to figure out what the truth is of his intentions. She still feels this pull--this connection to him, and she hopes she’s wrong, but she’s not willing to just sit around and wait for the other shoe to drop.

The Winter Fete still happens, she still gets the hot make-out session with the General, and then when he’s called away, she snoops through his papers, looking for anything that can tell her the truth. She finds a hidden compartment filled with journals.

She reads about Aleksander’s past (and, incidentally, wasn’t that supposed to be a huge moment in the books, him revealing his true name to her in private? kinda wish it had been kept that way in the show but who knows where they’ll go with it in the future)--that leads to the flashbacks in episode 6. She feels for him, but she also reads further--she gets a firsthand look at his desire for power, something that began as a noble desire to save his people, but was twisted by a lust for vengeance (for his lost love and all the Grisha who were killed) and shot through with greed, the realization that if he found the Sun Summoner he could control the Fold, rather than just destroy it. He could create a new world where Grisha could live without fear--where Grisha could rule.

Alina is terrified. Whoever the General used to be--whatever humanity she saw flickering in his eyes, the way his heart fluttered when they kissed--she can’t trust that it’ll be enough to save her from plans centuries in the making. So she goes to Baghra, the woman who helped her discover her power, learn to channel it--the woman who always seemed to know much more than she ever let on. Baghra gives her side of the story--Alina got it from the General’s perspective first, now Baghra is telling her something framed much differently. She isn’t sure what or who to trust, but she knows that Baghra seems willing to help her escape--but rather than trusting her ‘loyal Grisha’, she makes the choice she made in the show, to choose the other path, and winds up with the Crows.

Idk how Mal and the Stag thing would fit into this (if it isn’t obvious by now, Mal just... doesn’t interest me), but Alina’s story and her character arc would be so much stronger for it. And she’s supposed to be the central character, so her story being weak and her agency so frequently being compromised ultimately hurts the show as a whole.

I know I’ve gone on and on about Alina and the Darkling (look, I’m a slut for enemies-to-lovers, and also lovers-to-enemies-and-back, so Darklina and Helnik are where so much of my investment is rooted--plus Kanej, but that almost goes without saying), but the true standouts of the series were the Crows. Inej, Kaz, and Jesper, and Nina and Matthias in their episodes, stole the show (along with the Darkling, Ben is far and away the best actor in the cast and I love that for him, but Freddy, Amita, and Kit are also amazing, and Danielle&Calahan were fucking phenomenal as Nina and Matthias--I do have to say, though, that the whole cast is really solid and has amazing chemistry).

They worked together so perfectly--Freddy and Amita communicated so much with their eyes alone, especially together, and a whole lot of their relationship dynamic is rooted in how they exist together, which really came through. The show altered the Crows timeline considerably (I’m pretty sure Kaz would’ve been 14 during the original trilogy lol), so Inej is still at the Menagerie, but things like Kaz putting up the Crow Club for Inej’s freedom, the way Kaz needed her but could never bring himself to say it (until the end of the season dklhfgdkjfgh i SCREAMED)--the way Jesper played off the both of them, and it’s so obvious they all love each other even though they’re criminals and thieves and murderers, and Kaz would never admit it (out loud--which actually feeds into my theory that his love language is acts of service; Kaz does things for the people he cares about, he never announces it and he will almost always try to downplay it, but the way you know he cares is if, for example, he puts his entire life, everything he built, up as collateral for your freedom), but they’re a family.

One thing that I was kind of iffy about was Inej’s refusal to kill--but I thought it might be something they were planning to work into her overall character arc, and they did. It was the one line she hadn’t crossed--in the books, I’d imagine that it took a while for Inej to wind up at that point, being willing to kill on top of everything else. So I actually like that they worked that into the Crows plotline, and Inej killing for the first time was to save Kaz’s life.

Just like Kaz’s first selfless act was to save her.

(He’d deny it, of course. He protects his investments. He needed her for the job. But the truth is, he did it for her. And he’d do it again. Even if he’d never admit it.)

Meanwhile, Nina and Matthias’ storyline was pretty much note-for-note according to their backstory as it was revealed in Six of Crows, and I loved every second of it. Their chemistry was perfect, their journey from enemies to begrudging allies to friends to maybe something more (Matthias’ stomach cockblocking them when they were about to kiss had me fucking SCREAMING AT THE TV, and then of course the whole ‘betraying him to save him’ thing happened and I sobbed), and then suddenly right back to enemies.

Because from Matthias’ perspective, he trusted a witch--believed in her, liked her, wanted her--and she turned on him. He has no idea that she wasn’t the one who knocked him out in the first place, and no reason to believe her, because as far as he knows, she just confirmed everything he’d ever been told about Grisha. That they are deceitful and treacherous, would turn on you as soon as look at you, that they are dangerous and not to be trusted. It wasn’t revealed in-show but I imagine Matthias’ backstory is largely the same, which means that his entire family was slaughtered by Grisha when he was a young boy, and then he was turned into a brainwashed child soldier by the witch hunters and never knew anything else.

They are perfectly primed for their SoC arc next season and I, for one, am so stoked to see the rest of their journey. And if I slip Netflix a couple twenties, maybe they’ll let Helnik have a happy ending please please please.

Anyway, yeah! I have a lot of thoughts but things are still percolating in my head so I’ll probably float around the tags for a bit and let things settle. This is just a preliminary overview of my thoughts in the immediate aftermath of bingeing the entire show in one night kldfjghdkjfhgkjgf

EDIT TO ADD: I CAN’T BELIEVE I FORGOT ABOUT THE TRUE STAR OF THE SHOW, M I L O

MILO BEST BOY. MILO THE MVP. MILO DESERVES ALL THAT IS GOOD IN THE WORLD AND I HOPE HE LIVES A HAPPY AND HEALTHY AND FULL LITTLE GOAT LIFE.

[bigskydreaming]

I think about the fanon take on Dick and Jason’s relationship a lot, and the reasons for it, and tbh I think its not even just people wanting to make Robin Jason even more sympathetic or woobified or whatever....because even people who don’t even like Jason do it too!

And sure, at this point, part of why its so everpresent is its become so widespread most people just see it and take it for granted upon coming into the fandom for the first time. But I think getting things to that point, like it was a lot of factors. It was the Jason thing for sure, but I’ve also seen a lot of primarily Tim fans lean heavily into that trope too, as though Dick not being an asshole to his successor makes Tim’s attitude with Damian look worse by comparison....which is unnecessary IMO because I mean, Tim does have legitimate reasons for acting the way he does around Damian, that don’t even have anything to do with his feelings about Robin specifically. 

And then I think additionally, there’s a tendency to lean into this trope because fans of Good Dad Bruce Wayne, intentionally or not, like, use it to take attention away from where Dick did direct his resentment in canon...at Bruce himself. Because Dick had legitimate cause to be upset about it, which means there’s legitimate criticism to be made of Bruce for it.....and its much easier to shift focus onto Dick’s supposed asshole behavior or aloof rejection of Jason than to try and defend Bruce’s actions which....there’s not really a defense for. 

Bruce messed up. He should’ve been made to own that in canon and freaking apologize for it and put some effort into repairing his relationship with Dick, or failing that, fanon should’ve made him, but we’ve never ever gotten that on any kind of large scale even in fandom....because people are too busy holding Dick accountable for things that never happened to even consider holding Bruce accountable for things that did.

Then I think in some instances too, I’ve seen fans of both Tim and Damian, individually and together, emphasize this trope....but because of how close Dick was with them when they became Robin at first. Almost as if going with the take that Dick wasn’t at all close with Jason as Robin is meant to idk, make his relationship with either one of them seem more ‘special’ in comparison?

And ultimately, the thing is all of the other Robins who all approach the mantle as a legacy (one they’re only a part of because Dick created it in the first place, and then one way or another gave them his blessing to wear it, whether it was his idea for them to do so initially or not)....like the fact is, so much of this family’s overall dynamic is rooted in conflict around this specific name and mantle and what it means to each and everyone of them, and how its become symbolic of their place within the family itself, their legitimacy in being considered an actual member of the family. Which ironically resonates with the fact that Dick’s most established intent with the mantle and what it symbolized is actually meant to be just that....family....and with this hardly ever acknowledged by anyone other than him.

Point being.....they’ve all at various times fought over this mantle because of what it means to them, and because its so synonymous with their place within the family itself, their reasons for being part of it, for feeling as though they’re part of it, even if only initially.....

And Dick is actually, per canon....the odd man out in that.

He’s the one and only one of the actual Batfam who has never actually resented any of his siblings for anything to do with the Robin mantle or name and has always established himself as an ally and mentor and even just an ear to listen to their gripes or issues with Bruce. With his one and only actual issue with the mantle’s passing of the torch being just.....he’s bizarrely not fond of people trying to cut him out of the process of expanding his second family.....by way of the mantle he created in memory of his first family. I know. Go figure, right.

So its this thing where for one reason or another, ultimately it feels like everyone who’s first and foremost a fan of one of the other kids like.....idk, but to me it feels like there’s this perception that viewing Dick’s relationship with the Robin title as it actually exists in canon, and him standing out as the only one who doesn’t ever use it as a reason to create distance between himself and a sibling, like....maybe there’s this feeling or undercurrent that it threatens the other Robins somehow, by making them all look more petty or something in comparison? 

Where similar to what I described with ‘defending’ Bruce by shifting focus from his behavior in that matter to Dick’s made-up fanon behavior with Jason.....maybe it ultimately all traces back to this idea that its necessary to bring Dick down to the same level as all the others, so he doesn’t look ‘better’ than them by comparison?

*Shrugs* I don’t honestly know, to tell the truth. Its not a thing where anyone can ever know for sure what the actual underlying reasons for this phenomenon is, across the whole board. But I do think if that’s on any level part of the reason, that’s kinda wholly unnecessary IMO. 

Because it doesn’t have to be - never had to be - that Dick being the odd one out in his behavior towards any and all of his successors is because he’s like ‘better’ than the others in any way, shape or form. That he’s above being petty or resentful or any of the accusations made of the various other kids and that his canon behavior has been twisted to reflect in this regard.

Of course he’s capable of those things. He’s human. (Well, for a fictional character, I mean. LOL).

But no.....its not that Dick needs to be viewed as any more mature or pure or good than the others, above taking out any resentments he has about this on them....

When its far more plausible and in character that being the one who created the mantle, for the reasons he did....he’s simply always been too close to the situation to ever treat any of the others any differently than he did in canon.

Because for the guy who created the mantle and title of Robin...to honor his family.....maybe its just as simple as he always felt like it would cheapen or taint the very legacy he was trying to honor: his parents and the circus family that was likely as much a community, a found family of orphans and misfits and runaways as anything Bruce built.....if he used Robin as an excuse to push away or exclude or hurt any kids at all just like him, in need of a family.....someone his parents & circus family would have been as unlikely to turn away as Bruce had been.

Dick was never an asshole to Jason not because he’s too good to resent being replaced, unlike any of his siblings.....he quite possibly had the urge to be, and had to willfully fight past it. But the point is he did do that....and maybe the reason he did and was able to, is simply because to him, doing otherwise would have been a betrayal of everything Robin stands for in his eyes.

Because the thing about legacies.....they usually involve people trying to live up to whomever originated the legacy. Which plays a large role in a lot of fanfics, with the younger kids at times being in awe of Dick as the original Robin, and often times resentful of trying to live up to that.

But again....any and all takes that revolve around Dick creating the title in memory of his parents requires the idea that the mantle has always been a legacy for Dick too. The legacy of his parents.

So just as his siblings no doubt often think “what would Dick do” in certain situations, as is wholly natural when part of a legacy and thinking about one’s predecessor....

I think for Dick, upon meeting his own successor and replacement for the first time, no matter what he felt about it....

I’d bet one of the things flashing through his mind was some variation of “what would his parents do,” or at least “what would his parents want him to do.”

[sophygurl]

Rebel Scum: Finding Hope in Resistance - WisCon 41 panel write-up

These tend to be long and only of interest to specific segments of folk so click the clicky to read.

Disclaimers:

I hand write these notes and am prone to missing things, skipping things, writing things down wrong, misreading my own handwriting, and making other mistakes. So this is by no means a full transcript.

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Rebel Scum: Finding Hope in Resistance

Moderator: Anika Dane. Panelists: Becky Allen, Sandra Ulbrich Almazan, William Paimon

#RebelScumResist - for the livetweets and other thoughts on the panel

Anika introduced herself and talks about how she fell in love with Vader early on and said that Star Wars saved her sanity. She has the tumblr politicalpadme.

Sandra introduced herself and talked about doing Star Wars costuming for charity and said she is “a part time Jawa”. She shows off her Leia T-shirt which reads “A woman’s place is in the resistance”.

Becky introduced herself as a YA author who is heavily influenced by Star Wars. Rey is her favorite, but she aspires to be Leia.

William introduced himself as a psychologist. Han is his favorite rebel - not as a good person but as a piece of shit who stumbles into being a better person. 

Anika said starting with the middle stories - the first 3 - as being most about rebellion. How do these movies inspire you as ways to rebel?

Becky talked about Rogue One - specifically Bodhi Rook and how he became a rebel from having been a mercenary for the other side. Also Finn from The Force Awakens. 

Sandra talked about the animated Star Wars Rebels series - small groups of rebels who became part of the larger movement. 

William also noted Rogue One - Baze and Chirrut specifically. There were so many relevant characters in RO who were mostly side or background characters. Their moments of sacrifice in RO were intense and beautiful.

Anika asked about cautionary tales, for example - a character who goes too much to one extreme. (At this point, someone in audience’s phone goes off and it’s the Star Wars theme lol)

Becky talked about RO and how it took place in a larger world that we didn’t get to see much of. We’re not sure, as the audience, what the extremists did that the other rebels didn’t like so much. Another example is in Luke’s training - finding out he could go dark and deciding not to, even though doing so could help him win and save more people. 

William said RO shows the toll resistance can take - the costs and damage. Again, with Luke, he killed millions of people on the Death Star. “There’s no way there’s not a day care center there.” [IDK about that but ok...]

Sandra brought up an earlier panel at the con - These Are Not the Stories We’re Looking For. In RO, there were all these discussions within the rebellion about what actions to take.

Anika mentioned the line in RO that is said twice - “Rebellions are built on hope.” This idea was passed from one character to another and then finally to all of them. Jyn and Cassian are both fairly jaded - so why is hope such a big part of their rebellion. 

Sandra answered that if there is no hope of change - what is the point of resisting at all?

Becky talked about the election in November being followed by RO in December. It was so resonant because she had been feeling so scared and hopeless. The characters in RO don’t know that their sacrifices went anywhere. It helped with the idea that she can do things and not know the affect she’s having - but those things can be doing something; the idea that if we know we’re all together in this - we have a hope of winning.

William talked about the characters in RO being very different people with different values and not always liking one another - but they were held together with their hope and with their need to fight.

Sandra emphasized that the final word in the film was the word “hope.”

Anika brought up how hope is passed on with the Death Star plans and passed on through Leia. How is hope passed on through the generations? No major character in the series is raised by their birth parents, so how is hope passed on through family, friends, and loved ones?

Sandra answered that the mentor-trainee relationship is one big way it’s passed on. Also mentioned how C-3PO and R2-D2 are in all the films - how do they pass it on?

Becky said that in TFA, the new generation doesn’t have any clear living memory of what had happened before. Is Luke real, is the force real, etc.? The search for Luke is the search for hope. 

Anika brought up Bail Organa who raised Leia. While there is a lot of Vader in Leia, we can see how Bail raised her to be a shinning hope for the entire universe. 

Becky talked about the different ways those familial relationships affected things. Jyn was raised by extremists and ends up pretty jaded. Poe is raised in victory and has a very positive and plucky attitude.

Anika mentioned the end of Empire, the celebrations, and the statue of Palpatine being taken down. It’s unrealistic - we’re still fighting about confederacy statues here!

Becky talked about how the stories told affect us. Luke was raised believing his father was an important rebel - the clash of discovering the truth and how that affected his decisions going forward.

Sandra brought up the problems of people being so surprised about what’s happening in these stories. Why is there so much disagreement about it? Well, some of them (Rey and Luke for example) were raised on backwater planets. The questions about if the resistance is even needed are because messages aren’t being spread far and wide.

William compares this to us today - people voting against obamacare but loved their ACA. An audience member asks if the SW universe has no internet. William suggests that perhaps literacy is not even widespread in this universe. People don’t know their own history - they only have oral storytelling. A member of the audience says that disinformation can be very hard to fight psychologically. 

Becky said she is studying her own family history and it’s difficult to go back further than a generation or two. 

Anika brought up the prequels. Padme’s line about this war represents a failure to listen. This represents the entire series, really. No one is communicating with one another or listening much when they do - even when on the same side. Only one talking to everyone ... is Palpatine. How do we combat this? There doesn’t seem to be an answer in Star Wars.

Sandra mentions C-3PO and R2 - they’re in it from the beginning and have a lot of knowledge. R2 is the smartest but very few can understand him. C-3PO is a translator but no one wants to listen to him! 

Becky emphasizes that people with privilege have to listen and lift up the voices of more marginalized people. We have to get on the same page, but that page has got to include all of these other things even if - especially if - those things don’t affect me personally.

William talked about how people become focused on their own lives and don’t look at what’s happening on a broader scale.

An audience member brought up that the basis of SW is anglo-centric individualist hero’s journey. RO shifts that a bit into being about a community of heroes.

William adds that even in RO the extremist is a black man.

Anika asks how do we form our own rebel alliance and use SW to bring a message of hope?

Sandra said it’s about ordinary people coming together and how that can draw power [okay there was a whole lot of stuff here about the laws of power that I just blocked out because I can’t with that].

Becky talked about the themes of hope and also of warnings in the movies - if we don’t do the work (beyond just blowing up the Death Star), the Empire will come back. Fandom is community/communities - we need more communication and active listening among these communities. Fandom can give a foundation for community action.

William added that we need to build access - the world kids live in today, they have a lot of access to information and conversations that took us older folks a lot longer to get to. 

Becky stated that adults who interact with kids need to help them think critically about what they’re reading and talking about online. Help them apply stuff like conversations about privilege to their real lives.

An audience member talked about a 20-something nephew who is both a SW fan and a tea partier. They think of themselves as the rebels. 

Anika brought up an article online - someone saying they grew up wanting to be Luke Skywalker, but joined the army and found themselves part of the Empire instead. We love underdogs and we all like to think of ourselves as the underdog. Using fandom to reach people can be problematic because we all personalize the stories we read and watch. 

An audience member added that with The Hunger Games, the right sees themselves as the rural downtrodden folk and the capitol as the liberal elite. 

Becky also added that Captain America resonates with all sides politically in this country. She asks “why are we fighting different Empires?”

William talked about the narrative appetite for violent rebellion. It’s strong with the right with narratives about confederacy, for example.

Becky said that we can all see ourselves as Luke, but certain segments freaked out about Rey, Finn, and all of Rogue One’s cast. It felt like the franchise was being taken away from them, when really it was being given to more people.

Sandra stated that everyone is the hero of their own story [not always true ime, but yea].

An audience member brought up Galen as a character working within the system. This idea of collaboration vs. rebellion. 

William said that Galen made him really uncomfortable, and compared it to stories of people working within the Nazi’s in order to help Jewish people escape. 

Becky stated that very few people are all good or all bad. We all do what we can, but at the same time - maybe don’t build the Death Star?

Sandra said that Galen knew they could make it without him, so he felt his only option was to build it but put in the flaw.

Anika brought up how Jyn was raised by Galen and Saw - extremes on either side of the rebellion with different ideas of how to fight. How does that affect her?

After a whole discussion about media, the spread of info, storytelling vs. entertainment in the SW universe (sorry did not catch it all down in my notes), Anika stated that Trump is not Palpatine. Trump is Jabba the Hutt. 

An audience member brought up Uncle Owen as showing how invested you can be in the status quo - even if that status quo is terrible. Becky added that Owen told Luke - your dad was a rebel fighter and he died, so don’t do that. But Luke was like - omg my dad was a hero and died for his cause, I wanna be just like him! (somewhere in there she also stated “if you don’t like the Ewoks, you can fight me!” lol)

William said Owen was right - Luke got into the fight and everyone died. This idea of survival vs. resistance. 

Becky talked about how Owen was all about surviving another day while ignoring the terrible things happening. We have to have hope that we can fight this. But the Empire was going to come for Luke anyway...

Anika mentioned Jyn’s line about being able to ignore the Imperial flag as long as you don’t look up...

Anika then asked the panelists what they’re doing for the resistance.

Sandra talked about joining groups to fight gerrymandering and calling representatives on issues. 

Becky said she’s become more aware of politics on the local level. There was recently a specific election in just her district that she might not have known about a year ago. She stressed the importance of knowing all of your reps. She also continues to write about these themes in her own writing.

William talked about using his job working with kids to support where they’re coming from. An example was adjusting the bathroom policy in school system. Him coming in as a white male doctor and using that power to get the issue taken more seriously has helped. 

Becky concluded - “I fight straight white men more now. My discomfort is worth getting through to people.”