#and if you say 'it's okay to be antisemitic towards THESE jews because they're bad people' you're walking a dangerous line

[mewtonian-physics]

saw someone say 'nazionist' today.

you know you can criticize the israeli government without bringing nazis into it, right?

[anamericangirl]

I am fully on Israel and the Jews side during this war; but omg some of the hardcore Jewish leftists. I want to say I feel frustrated but I actually feel so bad for them. I saw a post where a christian girl was expression how stupid and evil she found Christians being antisemitic, and the post got full of people saying stuff like “but christianity is inherently antisemitic! It’s built into the very fabric ! It and you are always going to be antisemitic!” Like saying that on a post where someone is literally condemning hatred in their own community is ????? The whole “I have decided you are a bigot and can never stop being a bigot” talking point has always been one of my least favorites. And the posts I’ve seen where leftists Jews are expressing how terrible it is that Jews are now being seen as white, and they acknowledge that it’s being used to excuse any and all hatred towards them, and how they need to get people to realize they are a middle easter group. Which yes, you guys aren’t white, you are middle easterners; but shouldn’t this be making some of ya’ll question the whole notion on the left that white=bad and that’s it’s not okay to categorize different people in that way? It’s just sad to see so many of them going through the utter betrayal they have but are still clinging to the super left way of thinking and just seem totally lost. And I’m not even saying to go right; but to at least acknowledge that maybe the whole black and white “white straight Christian American=Bad Everyone Else=good” rhetoric was always going to go bad for anyone who peddled it? It happened to Asians too in recent years. And I’m absolutely not trying to say this is a Jewish thing, just a far leftist thing, because I can remember all the Jews (and Asians, and Latinos, etc,) who were really trying to sound the alarm that once they lost their place on the oppression hierarchy, a lot of these far leftists treat the minority groups they used to champion even worse than how they treat white people. I don’t know. I just feel sick to my stomach seeing all these people feel so heartbroken and betrayed by what they considered their close friends and community. I just wish this didn’t have to happen to them this way.

It really is sad watching it happen. It should be a lesson to them of the dangers of playing so hard into identity politics. It's an inherently bad way of approaching situations and they approach every situation that way. Wars are a little more complex than this skin color = good and that skin color = bad but they've let their brains get so damaged by that way of thinking over the years that they're really going to have to put in the work to change and I just don't see that happening.

It's such a shame.

[jedi-enthusiast]

Honestly I’m so confused why people are so upset that Israel was included in Eurovision, like…my dude it’s literally a music contest for a bunch of countries---that Israel has already been included in before---not an actual political statement.

It’s literally insane to me, especially with how people were treating the Israeli contestant---protesting her, forcing her to change her song, other contestants saying shit like “talking to her doesn’t mean I support Israel,” etc. etc.

And I feel like that’s a reoccurring thing with all this mainstream pro-Palestine bullshit: y’all don’t actually care about Palestine or want to help anyone, you just want “good person points” socially, but don’t actually care about your impact.

You'll post shit like "stan Hamas" and ignore the fact that they're literally a terrorist organization dedicated to killing Jews, and that they're literally hurting Palestinians too, as well as the fact that the conflict between Israel and Palestine is only ongoing because Hamas keeps breaking the ceasefire and won't give back hostages.

But you'll ignore all of the organizations that actually help Palestine because they're run by Jews/Israelis, or even just supported by Jews and Israelis.

(And how much do you want to bet that the same people who cry- "Hamas is only doing this because of Israel's actions regarding Palestine, so it's justified/reasonable/understandable, etc." -would never say that if it was a group like, say, ISIS that was kidnapping/killing/waging war on Americans because of the US's actions in the Middle East?)

You'll harass random people on college campuses just because they're Jewish, even though they clearly have no fucking say in what a country on the other side of the world does, and barricade yourselves inside a building and be shocked when you're suspended or expelled for property damage/harassment/etc.

But you won't volunteer at any organizations that are dedicated to helping Palestine, or donate money to those organizations, or donate food/clothes/etc., or actually do anything besides whine and cry because you helped destroy a campus building and your college doesn't want you there anymore.

(Hell, 99% of y'all don't even bother volunteering for your own communities, so I know you're sure as hell not volunteering to help anyone else's---again, you just want the "good person points")

Everyone that was so gung-ho about "oh yeah, let's punch Nazis!" a few years ago are now spouting Nazi rhetoric.

Everyone that preached that bigotry is never ok, even if someone from a minority does something bad, are now the same people chanting- "Jews are shit!" -and spreading blood libel.

Everyone that was calling for solidarity between minorities and oppressed groups are now the same people ostracizing Jews because they won't condemn the only country that will actually protect them- (or rather, they'll condemn the Israeli governments actions, but won't stand side-by-side with antisemites or say that Israel should be destroyed).

Everyone that said that it wasn't okay for people to be racist towards poc because some of the BLM protests were getting out of hand/violent are now the same ones going- "oh, it's fine to be antisemitic because these disgusting Jews Zionists aren't agreeing with me on everything."

Everyone that was posting shit about being aware of misinformation and doing your research before posting something are now the ones that have no idea what Zionism actually is, don't even know which river and sea their chant means, has no clue what Israel has actually done to Palestine and is just calling it a "genocide" as a buzzword despite all the evidence stating otherwise, etc.

Like...you guys are really just proving that you don't actually have morals beyond what's socially acceptable.

"Never harass random Muslim/gay/trans/black/etc. people just for a cause or because they did something you didn't like...unless they're Jewish, then you can stalk them on campus and be physically violent towards them."

"Bigotry is never okay, even if someone from a minority does something you don't agree with or something awful...unless they're Jewish, then spread blood libel and call for the "final solution" all you want."

"Not everyone from the US/Republican states/Christian churches/etc. agrees with what their government/state/religious leaders are doing, so it's not fair to blame and ostracize them for it...unless it's Jewish people or Israelis or, G-d forbid, Jewish Israelis, then you can hate them and blame them for everything!"

Like, genuinely, fuck off.

You aren't good people, you aren't "making a difference" or "on the right side of history," you don't give a shit about morality or justice or doing any good for anyone---all you care about is your fucking popularity and the social norm.

So keep your stupid, hateful, misinformed hands off of the I/P conflict---you've proven that y'all clearly can't handle having opinions on it.

[theconstitutionisgayculture]

I'm confused. Is antisemitism okay or not okay? You routinely defend holocaust deniers and those who wish to harm Jews under free speech, yet you pride yourself on taking a stand against violence towards Jews. So which is it? Is hatred of Jews acceptable under free speech, or are you taking a stand against it? These can't be true at the same time.

First, who are the "holocaust deniers" I'm defending? Point out actual posts and things I've actually said, please.

Second, there is a large difference between speech and violence. There is also a large difference between "people should get in legal trouble for saying this" and "the things you say and do have consequences". All speech, including hate speech, is free speech. Inciting hatred against a group of people is bad. These two ideas are not at all contradictory. You can absolutely support the right of people to express their opinions and ideas while also condemning opinions and ideas that are abhorrent. Just because I don't want the government to arrest people for doing something, doesn't mean I approve of what they're doing.

[sapphire-weapon]

I hope you'll be okay. What happens at Gaza is awful, but I noticed that in my country - I'm not in USA - there were a lot of hate against jews because of that. People are so damn stupid they confuse and mix everything.

there's always hatred of jews in the US. i'm used to that. i'm not used to feeling unsafe in online spaces, and i'm really not used to seeing friends promote antisemitic rhetoric.

what i've noticed, and what's been really insidious to me, is that Literal Nazis have been seeing well-meaning people trying to say "anti-zion =/= antisemitic" and have twisted that into essentially tricking those people into actual antisemitic thinking, assuring them that they're not being antisemitic, just anti-zion.

and there's a whole rabbit hole to go down here, but i don't have the time and i really don't have the strength to explain this in a way that's not going to get my inbox nuked by well-meaning useful idiots. but the tl;dr is that the jew-arab problem in gaza is something that goes back literally thousands of years, and in recent times, was exacerbated by the holocaust, and then had gasoline dumped on the fire by US president truman. current-day israel exists in a state of apartheid, yes, but wholesale dismantling the state of israel is not the solution to dismantling apartheid. the current government needs to be reformed, not dismantled. supporting a two-state solution is not being pro-genocide, because displacing more people is not the solution. it's not justice; it's revenge against a people for the actions of their government. it also allows hamas to go unchecked -- which hurts the palestinian people, too, because hamas has been using them as shields because they don't give a shit about them and that's why the civilian casualty rate is so high. hamas won't let them evacuate. and this is to say nothing of the relationships between hamas and other countries in the region. there's a lot of moving parts to this conflict that won't be solved by just focusing on israel. and a lot of the rhetoric i'm seeing can really be boiled down to "those fucking jews are the problem, and they need to disarm and leave."

and this focus on israel-palestine doesn't pass the sniff test when the war in ukraine is ongoing with just as many civilians dead. this is literally a propaganda campaign by Actual Nazis to focus well-meaning people on the left's ire towards jews -- and, in the US's case, an attempt to cause infighting on the left in an attempt to get trump back in office. you already see people on the left protesting kamala harris while saying they wouldn't protest trump, because they've been duped into thinking that this is the correct course.

the tl;dr to the tl;dr is: if your stance is full-stop "israel bad" and your intellectual curiosity about the situation ends there, i don't feel safe around you and i don't want to be around you, because you have fallen hook, line, and sinker for neo-nazi propaganda. "netanyahu bad" = correct. "israel bad" = i don't understand global politics and i'm out for revenge against jews.

[panaeolus-fimicola]

pinned

hi, you can call me kyle. i am 21, an autist, detransitioned, a lesbian, and an agnostic jew. i am not going to chat with you/be your friend if you're antisemitic or post blood libels &/or calls for the deaths/displacement of half of all living jews.

this blog is a personal/main blog. it includes a lot of political, especially feminist stuff. i post about my various mental illnesses sometimes, and sometimes i repeat myself without meaning to because autistic and bad memory. besides that, typical tungl blog. silly thoughts and life experiences and opinions and shitposts, all that. also, i talk a lot in the tags, sorry lol

@normal-about-dinosaurs is my art sideblog. if you follow this blog or reblog any of my art i will cry (gratefully). you are welcome to send requests of random things for me to draw, tv stuff, animals, etc.

@youknowihadtodoittothem is my evidence/resources/sources sideblog. i don't make personal posts there

i don't call people slurs (including the t slur), and i might block you if you use the r slur. i don't really consider "troon" a slur but still don't say it often, and i don't use the b slur, or the words wh*re, sl*t, or similar.

"proshippers" (people who like/are ok with fictional cp), lolicons (pedophiles), etc, DNI. i am serious and this is really one of my only major account boundaries. if you think fictional cp is okay, you are a pedophile apologist and enabler.

other major account boundary: please no minors following me, i'm not here to be kid-friendly. i will still attempt to tag nudity/nsfw content as such. also, sometimes i post about weed or other drugs, this will generally be tagged as '#drug /' if it bothers you. i don't drink, smoke, or do any hard drugs. sometimes i post about my family/piece of shit father, will try to tag as '#unfather'.

more about below - beliefs, some interests, a couple other sideblogs - it's not vital information nor super long

my beliefs solidly align with radical feminism, and i try to live my life by it as much as possible. anti makeup, cosmetic hair removal, femininity. i'm not anti-natalist and i don't want humans to go extinct. abortion is awesome and should always be safe and free, no woman should be forced into motherhood or have her body used against her will. i/my blogs are crypto radfem/gc safe, usually open to discuss beliefs with civility.

i am pro female and lesbian separatism, and i'll never recommend a woman start dating a man, all women deserve support exiting abusive relationships. no woman deserves abuse or misogyny, including women who are bad people and who you disagree with.

i don't hate trans people, i'm friends with some and care quite a bit about them. i use sex-based pronouns as much as possible, i don't "misgender" my friends to their faces because i don't want to upset them. they knew me while i was transitioning and know that i'm detransitioned now. i am a gender abolitionist.

males do not and cannot face oppression for being female, thus they are not included in feminism, the movement for female liberation. even the most "passing" trans-identified males will never face true misogyny. i am generally against transition (including HRT) and other cosmetic surgery, it is too dangerous/risky and promotes harmful attitudes towards our bodies. i am pro-reconstructive surgery/treatments, even though they may not truly restore what was lost or damaged.

i am generally anti-BDSM, i don't think "because it gets me/them off" is an excuse to abuse your partner. i don't think it's much better when it's SSA women. i also don't think it's good to simulate or fetishize pedophilia, racism, incest, abuse, or any of the other bad things that much of kink involves.

i am strongly against letting pets, especially cats, outdoors unsupervised, whether they usually live indoors or outdoors. i am pro euthanasia/elimination programs for feral cat colonies, i really dislike preferential treatment for domesticated animals when they're causing harm. i am not against pets or domestication, i have a few exotic pets myself (reptiles and inverts). i am not vegan, but not really anti-vegan either, i just don't think eating other animals is morally wrong. farmed animals should absolutely have better welfare and quality of life, and agriculture needs environmental protection reforms.

detrans qualifiers: had double-incision double mastectomy shortly after turning 17, was on testosterone for 16 months, starting a month before i turned 18. my voice dropped and i did pass at least to some strangers. i'm still GNC and get sir'd sometimes.

mild-moderate europhobe, sorry ik there's some cool stuff but way too many european countries are fine with pedophilia and rape (esp prostitution). also what the fuck is with all the countries with an age of consent of like 14. and the netherlands' special little child rapist olympian (steven van de velde)

DMs and asks are usually open, and i don't mind DMs at all as long as you're not being a creep/you're not a creepy male. response may be delayed, probably because i'm unsure how to respond, or it's something hard to answer, sorry :[

hate anons generally go unanswered, unless they're a good example of a pattern of unhinged/bigoted behavior - such as anons calling me slurs, claiming i'm lying about being detransitioned or that i was never "really" trans to begin with. or if they're really stupid and funny.

some of my interests:

pokemon, bugs, plants, marine life (usually inverts), reptiles, archosaurs, and drugs (especially psychedelics). i like south park and iasip. and 'the boys' (show) apparently. a variety of pc and switch games such as deep rock, path of titans, lethal company, and splatoon. if we have shared interests (especially games!) please feel free to dm and start a conversation about it!! i am genuinely just here to learn, listen, make connections/friends, share my experiences/thoughts on various things, post art, and have fun/get a little silly.

@touchingsomegrass is my nature/plant aesthetic sideblog

@wholegrainoats is my happy place/interest only sideblog, so bugs, reptiles, drugs, stuff like that

[amporella]

I do wonder, what do you think it is about Kyle in particular that gets fans so riled up? It always seems like so much of the fighting is centered around him.

Ahh, what a question... if this kind of discourse were directed towards literally ANY other character, this might be a more difficult question, but as is, the answer is relatively simple; he's Jewish, and he has the audacity to defend himself. His relationship with Cartman certainly plays a role too, but I think that's more of a subpoint to the previous point rather than a totally new point.

You're absolutely right, though; so much of the fighting IS centered around Kyle, and NO other character gets this much flak - especially not personally. A large portion of this fandom often makes the jump between 'Kyle did something dickish' (which, of course, he does, he is ten) and 'Kyle himself IS a dick'. This is treatment that not even CARTMAN gets; I feel comfortable saying that I have seen more posts saying Kyle is pathetic/any relevant synonym (even in jest, which is often hard to distinguish from genuine vitriol) than I have of people saying Cartman is pathetic. Before Post-Covid, people would scavenge for crumbs to justify Cartman's behavior; I can't count the number of times I've seen 'okay, well, he saved those cats in Major Boobage, so he can't be all bad?' which, great, but it's quite obvious that a) Cartman also frequently abuses his own cat and b) Cartman saving cats and hiding them in his attack was a quite obvious metaphor for hiding Jewish people around the Holocaust and WWII; it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Normally, Cartman doesn't seem to give a single fuck about cats, let alone his own cat. His behavior wasn't evidence that he has a heart, or that he's not all bad; it was, as always, a Cartman-related joke at the expense of Jewish people - a joke at the expense of Kyle, specifically, as most of the jokes boil down to. Post-Covid gave even more ammo towards Cartman being utterly irredeemable, but he's obviously still being defended vigorously by specific people, some out of ignorance and others out of genuine malice.

I mention Cartman and these events as an example because I think it's very relevant; the venn diagram between rabid Cartman (and kyman, sometimes) fans and Kyle haters is very close to a circle. It's not that Kyle himself has done anything wrong by existing as a Jewish character; it's that the same people who desperately want to believe Cartman can change come to resent Kyle for his existence, because he serves as a stark reminder that Cartman CAN'T change. They'll come up with as many logical loopholes as possible to TRY and pretend that he can (recent examples I've seen being 'Kyle is fictional, and his abuse doesn't matter', 'Cartman isn't a nazi, he just hates Kyle in particular' and 'Cartman was the one who tried to bring the main four back together, he changed while Kyle didn't), and when that inevitably doesn't work, they turn their anger onto Kyle. This is antisemitic - the justifying of a Jewish character's abuse from a nazi (and Cartman IS a nazi, I would be happy to elaborate if anyone wants me to) is always antisemitic, regardless of whether he's fictional or whether he was a little too uppity for you in one specific episode. I have seen posts from these same Kyle haters on Twitter that essentially admit to what they're doing; they want Kyle dead because, in their eyes, he reverses Cartman's progress - in Post-Covid, he 'ruins' Cartman's chance at having a family by existing. This is obviously not true - Cartman is responsible for his own actions, and Kyle existing as a Jewish man and being unwilling to forgive his abuser is not a crime - but it's the general reasoning behind it.

This is one of the reasons that those derogatory jokes agitate me; because there are people who legitimately think this way about the characters, and who are so delusional that to them, Kyle IS pathetic and DOES deserve to die alone, because he is Jewish and has the audacity to exist, which upsets Cartman. The repetition of these phrases in a 'loving' way towards Kyle legitimizes them - it makes the people who genuinely believe them go 'okay, well, if these Kyle likers think he's pathetic, surely it's less antisemitic if I think so', but it isn't. In this way, calling Kyle a loser/pathetic/etc legitimizes the antisemitism directed towards him; it gives Kyle haters something to point to to claim that their hatred of him ISN'T based in his Jewish identity and that he doesn't lay down and take abuse. This is regardless of the intentions of the people who make these jokes; I'm sure they don't mean harm, but it's actively harmful at worst and not helpful in the slightest at best.

Anyway, this was long, so TL;DR: Cartman fans are Kyle's biggest group of haters, and Kyle's existence serves as evidence that Cartman is incapable of reform, causing them a) believe Cartman's hatred of him is justified and b) join in on that hatred.

Thanks for the ask!

[jewlian]

Please know that I mean no disrespect with the question I'm about to ask, but

Why is it such a problem for Jews to wear christmas sweaters?

I'm not trying to justify drawing the Devoraks in them, and I am definitely not coming at you for saying anything. I am just genuinely, as someone uneducated on the topic of religion, trying to understand why it's such a sensitive thing.

I did read very briefly something that mentioned christmas being a catholic holiday, but that's about as much detail as that went into, so I'm still not really seeing anything too bad in this. I mean, many people celebrate christmas and the winter period for non religious reasons, and they still participate in different stereotypical activities such as wearing jumpers or eating fancy dinner together.

Also, I think more people would stop drawing the Devoraks in christmas sweaters if they understood too. In Aisha's case, there was a lot more explanation to the religious aspect of the hijab within the fandom, so I think there was a wider understanding which fuelled more outrage towards the devs. So perhaps, if you explained a little about what Hanukkah celebrates and why it is a problem for Jews to be wearing sweaters, I think you'd see less of it.

Another thing- people with adhd and/or autism often need some sort of explanation that makes sense for them to do something. Taking myself as an example, I see that you're saying it is anti-Semitic to draw Jews in christmas sweaters, but I don't understand why, so in my head it still seems moderately okay, because so long as they're not wearing them for religious reasons, it's not interfering with religion, right? I know I'm probably wrong, but that's just how my brain works and until I'm given a concrete, digestible reason, I can't actively change my mind because I need it to make sense.

I'm very sorry for asking you to explain things like this. Again, I would like to reiterate that I say all of this with no intention of belittling the Jewish faith or showing you any disrespect. I just want to get a better understanding. :)

okay so the first thing you need to understand here is that the reason people celebrate christmas for non-religious reasons is that our culture and society are overwhelmingly biased toward christianity. Holidays like Easter and Christmas are treated like default holidays and school/work vacations are given for Christmas specifically and never Jewish/etc. holidays because society at large (in certain countries) prioritizes Christianity in all facets. Nobody would see a character celebrating Hannukah and say "they might not be doing it for religious reasons."

Second, people have been trying to explain for years now why it's not okay to portray the Devoraks as celebrating christmas but people won't listen. Antisemitism in this fandom is a huge and ongoing issue wherein most of the fandom won't even acknowledge that they're jewish in the first place. By drawing Julian (lets get real these people never draw Portia) in christmas sweaters, the immediate impression that people will get is that he's christian or christian adjacent. Barring special circumstances someone who was raised as a practicing jew isn't going to celebrate christmas. Best case scenario it's just another day, worst case scenario it's an actively hostile presence in their life.

Lastly, with all due respect i think a jew saying you shouldn't do something to or with a jewish character should be a concrete enough reason for you to change your mind. You clearly aren't Jewish and I think I gave plenty of reasons in my original post as to why you shouldn't do it. It's erasure. It erases their Judaism because the immediate assumption when you see someone celebrating christmas is that they're a non-jew. You could come up with any number of technicalities-- I myself am a jew from an interfaith non-devout family and I celebrate christmas-- but given this fandom's history of antisemitism and Jewish erasure I don't trust them not to do so in bad faith.

To sum it up, this is a one way street. None of these people would ever portray non-jews celebrating Hannukah or Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanah or Passover. They are spoiled for choice in regards to all the non jewish characters they could draw in christmas sweaters and they can leave the like two jewish ones in existence the fuck alone.