#and so sara & shin were raised as siblings....

[key-lime-soda]

Hades Incident Theory (YTTD)

You all remember the Hades Incident, right? It was supposedly the very first Death Game run by the heads of a bunch of rivaling criminal organizations. We know very little about it so far. According to Keiji, it took place decades before the current main game. Only one person survived: the Memorandum Man. But who were the other participants? So far we only know a significant amount of information about two more participants: the Memorandum Girl and someone named Shinobu Gokujo. I’ll talk more about them later. 

I think the remaining participants all have something to do with each of the current candidates. Specifically, I think those were their parents. Almost every candidate (that we have backstories for) have at least one missing parent. 

Sara was adopted by Mr. Chidouin, but is still related to her mother

Joe’s dad was (most likely) Mr. Policeman, a cop who tried to investigate a case that got him fired. That case was supposedly about the police’s corruption, and it probably connects back to the Hades Incident too

Keiji was raised by his poor single mother

Gin lives with his mother and step-father

Q-Taro was an orphan in an orphanage called Asunaro

Kai was raised by his father, and we don’t know anything about his mother. Gashu is already working for Asunaro so that probably counts enough.

The only exceptions to this are the two sibling pairs: Reko and Alice, and Shin and Kanna, along with Nao as well. All have explicitly mentioned that they grew up with both parents. We also don’t know much about Mishima, Midori, or the Dummies either, so that's still to be determined.

Why would they take the children of these people and throw them in a death game? it's probably to determine something related to their criminal organizations. To be honest, I don't think the second death game is specially reserved for the children of the Hades Incident participants. For example, Gin and Kanna are both younger than 15, making them a little too young to be the child of someone who died "decades" ago. However, they could be the grandchildren of the original participants, which explains how characters with both parents still alive ended up here. I think they just wanted the youngest descendants of the original participants so they can determine who gets to inherit Asunaro. If you think about it, this explains why none of the participants have siblings that aren't present in the death game (that we know of). Maybe the original death game wasn't fair, and they needed a proper redo?

Let's go back to the Memorandum Man. In the painting found in Chapter 2, he can be seen wearing a suit very similar to Meister’s. Meister’s suit is already just a different colored version of Mr. Chidouin’s suit, and many people have already guessed that Mr. Chidouin is Meister. I’m willing to take a guess that the Memorandum man and Meister are both Mr. Chidouin. I think he was the last surviving member of the Hades Incident. He’s very clearly tied to Asunaro in many ways, and he was even seen in a flash-forward scene at the end of Chapter 2 in the victory room, where he said: 

“Your father's glad you've survived... Now, let's begin, shall we?  ...The final Death Game.”

Why the final death game? Aren’t they already in the death game? Wouldn’t it make more sense to welcome her to the final main game? That is unless he was in another main game before this. If anything, it almost sounds like he’s implying that Sara has been in a Death Game before, which brings me to my next point. 

I think Sara Chidouin is the Memorandum Girl. I believe she participated in the Hades Incident. Now, of course, the first big problem lies with how the Memorandum Girl died during the 3rd victim conference. In addition, she’s 17 now, and according to Keiji the Hades Incident happened decades ago. How can a 17-year-old girl die and then come back decades later as the same age? I’ll get to that in a moment. 

The Memorandum Man has a strange personality. He quickly took interest in the charismatic teen girl that managed to rally everyone together many times. He respects her skills, and tells her his true feelings of respect after the second victim conference. He suffered a great loss after her death. It was so painful that he was supposedly unable to love any other woman as much as her. This man, who is supposedly now the head of the most powerful criminal organization, has just lost the one person he cared for more than anyone. He probably realized that he alone had the power to bring her back. How? By using AI and machines to create the Dolls we are already so familiar with. He brought her back to life and pretended that she was his daughter. This explains his extremely overprotective personality when regarding Sara. He snapped at Kai when he mentioned how much he also cared for her. He already had to watch her die before, and wasn't willing to lose her again.

She lived her everyday life as a doll, similar to Midori. He's been dead for years before Alice "murdered" him and no one could tell. (Maybe she has some/most of Midori's body parts, similar to Mai, but that's just a possibility)

Now, you’d think Sara would be aware that she’s a doll, but that's not necessarily the case. Dolls don’t know they’re fake until it’s proven. And if you count all Game Over sequences as non-canon, then Sara has not canonically bled at any point in the game. We have no proof that she’s human. Your Time to Shine seems to support this, with the presence of a character named “Sara?” that seems to be in charge of certain parts of the simulation. So far, only dolls have been referred to with a “?” at the end of their names. 

This might explain why Sara was brought here despite never signing the consent form. She had already participated in a death game before, and also isn't human. If her dad gave permission (and was in charge) then there was no urgency to get her to sign it. They probably only did it for formality reasons (I believe Midori mentioned something about people dying if they didn't get everyone's signed forms).

Also, Sara’s role as a member of the Hades incident also explains why the AI simulations showed her as ruthless, leading Midori to encourage her to unlock her true potential and become the killer she once was. If she was in the Hades Incident, that would make her the former head of a criminal organization. It would make perfect sense for her to be both a charismatic leader and a heartless killer. Only now, she doesn’t remember anything.

This also made me think about Shunsuke Hayasaka. In his victim video, he blames Sara for being stuck in the Death Game. He worked at a medical machinery company, and had data on her (and the rest of the participants). However, he specifically curses out Sara and the organization that did this. If Sara wasn't human, then he'd probably know. After all, he worked at a medical machinery company. They probably have a hand in developing the tech used to make Dolls (I can't remember if this was explicitly stated or not). He cursed her specifically because he saw how she was different from everyone else, therefore making her seem like she's in on it.

It seems, however, that Mr. Chidouin might not be in charge of everything in Asunaro. After all, he didn't have any reason to create a second death game with the chance of his daughter's death (again). There might be someone above him, forcing everyone to abide by a strict set of game rules. Who is it? I have no clue. Hopefully, Chapter 3 will answer these questions…

[corvidcrowned]

au you say?

OKKAY OKA. *grips my shambling notes* SO AI TEST IFIOTS RIGHT.

so basically, it’s an au elaborating on the idea of “oh shit sara kills???”

you see bee, in the ai simulations, which were done to get survival rates for the candidates in the death game, Sara’s best friend joe wasn’t present, so she was focusing solely on her own survival. This matched with the fact she may/may not have been raised for this event specifically (her father is very likely the creator of the death game. Head of a cult-adjacent company bla bla daddy issues) makes her kill quite a bit.

so there’s also this anzu character who has a weirdly high survival rate for what we see of her in-game. Thus I have been. Thinking about these two‘s dynamic in the sims for many many months.

now onto the plot! Which will be hidden under the cut.

SO OKAY OKAU. The story itself is from anzu’s perspective.

basically, anzu ai decides to go skip school to go prepare a birthday present for a little sibling (to make things even more fucked up yknow.) then she got abducted and woke up in the main hall. (This is a fabricated memory, safalin wanted to spice things up a bit. In reality she just kinda spawned there.)

so the boosts/handicaps, nao kai joe and kugie, are not here because that would not make any sense. And all of the candidates are alive to start because there is no first trial. Anyways everyone ge ts introduced and they find the doll head and split up, per usual.

everything seems normal until the first main game, where shin Acts erratically and tries getting sara voted. However nobody belives him (megumi, the cop, gets voted instead. Idk who the sacrifice is but they’re dead too) this puts shin on Sara’s hit list though so once they reach floor 3 she kills him off quickly.

except anzu witnessed the murder.

so chaos ensues. the girls are fightingggg….

Eventually they become allies but that’s all I have super planned out so far jsjdjksk

[amaryllisblackthorn]

so like, contrary to what seems to be the common/popular belief, I don’t think Meister and Mr. Chidouin are actually the literal same person?

i think one is a doll of the other, with Mr. Chidouin *probably* being the doll,

for one i just don’t believe everything we see about and hear from him in the Kai flashback & emails were lies? they portray him as someone who is aware of the Death Game and trying to keep Sara *out* of it, even putting his own life on the line –

...If it comes to it, I’m trusting you with Sara.

That girl’s destiny has so much potential for change that I’ve put my own life on the line…

Hello hellooooo! (^^)/ Feelin kinda in danger lately.... Well ok, its Sara they're after. She's been targeted. I'm attached to this house, but I guess I gotta discard it and run. ...Will you come with, Kai?

i mean, yeah, he doesn’t specifically name the Death Game iirc. and it’s also  possible that Mr. Chidouin’s just completely lying to Kai, but like. I guess I don’t see any real reason to doubt it other than his apparent connection to Meister

also like why would Mr. Chidouin be wearing a different suit&hat/outfit (the flashforward at the end of 2-2) than Meister? i guess anything’s possible but like, i don’t see why he’d be wearing a completely different outfit idk

generally what i think is going on is:

Meister is the man from the Memorandum, the survivor of the Death Game from the ‘Hades Incident’

all of the candidates in the current Death Game are his biological children, and the purpose of this Death Game is to determine a successor

this means all the candidates are related

this also includes Sou ‘Midori’ Hiyori

Shin and Kanna probably have the same biological mother, too; 

Shin is prob also adopted, which makes more sense with him not knowing if his sibling was older or younger than the alternative tbh

Alice and Reko’s situation is admittedly ??, but it’s still  possible 

 I wonder if AI Reko’s comments about her dad are relevant at all ? maybe not but hm

i also wonder if the ‘something’ Megumi was looking for, when Keiji seems to ask about her reason for joining the police, was her father, which led to Asu-Naro? maybe? i’m not like committed to this thought, but I do think she was aware of the relation with her and Keiji but idk

the cult-like aspects of Asu-Naru are interesting and curious, too; it goes beyond just like, a yakuza organization/organized crime syndicate, so i wonder what that’s all about

the reason why Kai was sent to the Chidouins was at least in part bc the organization began to suspect Mr Chidouin’s loyalty [maybe]

Mr Chidouin talked about and acknowledged Kai’s guard work even though Kai was hired to help around the house and with Mr Chidouin’s work, with Kai’s guarding of Sara being originally on the behalf of Asu-Naro

Mr Chidouin says the the apron he gave Kai belonged to his own mother, so there is the question of would a (self aware) doll consider her his/their own mother, which is possible but admittedly something to thing about. the alternative situation, with Mr Chidouin being the human from the Hades Incident and Meister being his doll carries the question of if (male) dolls can reproduce -- which I guess is possible but also pretty weird but I am acknowledging the possibility to cover my bases

there is the question as to why Meister’s doll counterpart would be raising Sara out of all the participants -- there’s no real way they could have known her parallels to the girl from the Memorandum when she was just a baby. I imagine Sara’s mother is her biological one since they share similar hair color based on what we’ve seen. I wonder if maybe she has any connection to the original Memorandum girl? I also wonder if she knows anything at all -- we know she considers Kai family but not if she knows everything. 

I have a lot more thoughts that I’ll probably use another post for instead of going on here. but basically I just wanted to express that I do not think Mr Chidouin and Meister are the same person -- or rather that I do think Mr Chidouin and Meister are separate people, with one being the doll of the other. also that all the candidates are related through Meister and the Death Game’s purpose is one of succession -- which is super messed up ?? but i’ll guess we’ll see how everything plays out

i could be wrong of course but i just wanted to put my thoughts out there

also obligatory 🟦🟨  Слава Україні / Slava Ukraini ! 💙💛

[sou-ver-2-0]

What do you think of Midori and Kanna being biologically related theory? Personally I really like it because it adds even more shin and Kanna giving them the same abuser. My theory is that even as a child Midori was manipulative. Maybe he was physically abusive but I think he’d prefer to gaslight and coddle Kanna from the moment she was born to make her feel weak and useless without him, thus explaining her deep seeded insecurities and why she tried so hard to please her adoptive parents out of fear she’d be returned. She probably had a bad feeling about Midori somewhere down the line that made her want to leave him. Because Kanna left Midori when she was adopted maybe he’s the one who wrote the message on Kugie’s phone to punish her. I find it interesting how out of all the executions to this point Kanna was numbed for it and the plants would preserve her body. Maybe it was all safaline’s twisted idea, but I could see Midori coming up with that execution so even in death his little sister can’t abandon him again. That and it’d really mess with Shin.

I’m also fond of the theory of Kanna and Original Sou being related! I’ve previously written about my feelings here, here, and here.

The biggest draw of making them biologically related would be that it’d give Kanna and Sou’s relationship a narrative weight in the Emotion Route to match Shin and Sou’s past relationship in the Logic Route.

I like your ideas! That would make for a compelling story. Although I certainly have more sympathy for abusive children than I do for abusive adults. But that would be an emotional parallel for Shin and Kanna, to both be Sou’s victims!

I’ve seen theories that Sou could be either Kanna’s brother or father, and I admit I’m much more partial to the idea of Sou being her brother. This is mainly because Sou needs to be young enough to pass as a high school student in Shin’s school. (My mind is extremely Shin-centric!) Additionally, Kanna talks more about her sister more than her parents, so I think of sibling-relationships as being more important for Kanna’s arc.

I’ve previously theorized that Sou’s parents belong to Asu-Naro, because it would be a good parallel with our other agent, Kai. If that’s the case, Sou could still be pretty young. A friend mentioned to me recently that it’s a common enough trope for assassins to be raised in orphanages. If Nankidai went that route, it’s possible that both Kai and Original Sou were placed in orphanages, just like Q-Taro and Kanna. This would add a layer to Q-Taro feeling a bond with Kai, since Q-Taro says he “sensed the scent of a lonely person” from Kai and comments that he is “somebody of the same kind.” It would also give Sou and Kanna a potential opportunity to know each other for a little bit, before Kanna is adopted, assuming they were left in the same orphanage.

However—I say this as a fan of the theory that they’re siblings—we both need to be cautious not to get too attached! Maybe Nankidai will surprise me and say that Original Sou is Kanna’s very young father. It feels easier to me to make them siblings, because that establishes a natural connection between them that doesn’t raise questions about Sou’s age. In contrast, it’d be such a shocking plot twist to throw in a teenage pregnancy situation and make Sou her father. I guess I am afraid that the story would feel needlessly soap-opera-y. But what do I know? I have a lot of faith in Nankidai right now, so maybe he could pull off that kind of plot twist with sensitivity.

I know you were asking about them being siblings, but since Sou being Kanna’s father is a theory I’ve seen tossed around in several places, I figured I’d throw in my two cents! At the moment, I’m still partial to the idea of them being siblings. Possibly half-siblings, if Meister is their father who has been with several women.

I’m also a fan of the theory that Midori could have forged Kugie’s smart phone message! I previously approached this theory by thinking about how Midori might have wanted to manipulate Shin, but it would be emotional if he were motivated to specifically hurt Kanna!

If “The Human Flower” execution was Midori’s idea, that would be devastating! I agree that it’s really interesting how the execution is so focused on preserving Kanna’s body after death. Thematically, YTTD keeps bringing up the idea of “preserving people after death,” especially with dolls and AIs. So her death could be simply resonating with that theme, but I also wonder if it could be evidence of her having family in Asu-Naro. Family who has a twisted idea of “preserving Kanna in death” instead of protecting Kanna’s fragile life.

(Slightly off topic, but my reading of that scene is that Kanna died in agony! I know that Safalin claims that Kanna wouldn’t feel pain, but she’s clearly screaming as she dies… I’ve always imagined that Sara and Shin and everyone would feel momentary relief at Safalin’s promise, only to realize afterwards that Kanna could feel pain after all! The Floor Masters can’t lie about “the important things,” so I assumed that—to the villains—Kanna’s pain wasn’t “important.”)

Thanks for sharing your ideas with me! I used this as an opportunity to ramble a lot, haha. :) TLDR I would be very excited if Sou and Kanna turned out to be siblings.