#and that's where i think the chib era suffered the most

[cloysterbell]

So I'm an RTD girlie who gave up on doctor who somewhere in the moffat era before chibnall even took over and so I've missed all of thirteen's tenure. I don't have it in me to watch all of her seasons at this moment in time but I LOVE Jodie and your gifs look so compelling.

Would you be able to recommend your top 5 episodes with 13 or something so I can rectify the error of my ways, at least a little bit?

Hmmmmmmm I would say that for a complete Thirteen novice you should watch:

The Woman Who Fell to Earth

It Takes You Away

Spyfall pts 1 & 2

The Haunting of Villa Diodati

And probably Fugitive of the Judoon and The Timeless Children just because those are very important series lore episodes that are important to watch even if you very much disagree with most of the choices that Chibnall made

Also probably The Power of the Doctor so you can watch Thirteen's full regeneration episode (and Jacob Anderson <3)

[13thdoctorposts]

has anyone else noticed how reactions and consensus on 13 has been RETROACTIVELY negative? I know there's been an intensely misogynistic hate campaign since Jodie was announced but I also noticed that when you look at old posts from when s11 especially was freshly aired, there was a lot more good faith engagement with the show and genuine excitement in fandom. It seems like covid gave the bad faith actors the opportunity to take over fandom and force their narratives on everyone.

Yeah a really great example of this is if you look back to tweets from the night Rosa aired the praise was very very high, now if you bring it up in the fandom you would think it was terrible and racist.

On YouTube I was told the writers, both of them Chibs and Malorie Blackman were incompetent because they doesn’t show how bad the racism really was, yet the episode starts with one of our companions being physically assaulted and told to be careful so not to end up like Emmett Till, some one who had just been murdered acting as if the show was sugar coating what life was like back then. Oh and of course with the Chibs slander that he’s racist because he may have hired a woman of colour to write the script, but she is English not American and he should have made sure it was an American or not done the episode at all

Malorie Blackman is an award winning author claiming she’s an incompetent writer is pretty incredible accusation.

Here’s some of the tweets from articles praising the episode.

I think 2 things hurt 13 era who and they weren’t Chibs and Jodie. It was the unhinged toxicity the fandom constantly spewed and then even after things got praised as you said people would go back and nitpick to a level they never ever do with any other era and 2nd not having a big enough marketing budget and brand manger series 12 and 13 suffered most from this because the BBC did put the marketing money into series 11 even if they didn’t have a brand manager, and Chibs mentions this in the Radio Free Skaro podcast from last year that the BBC put a huge marking budget into series 11 but series 12 and 13 basically the budget was… you can only advertise on the BBC because there’s no money for anything else.

Rosa is just one example but there was a lot of praise for the work at the time of release and it’s quite possible general public viewers may have just stoped engaging on social after series 11 because they would then be piled on, and people in the online fandom knew they couldn’t go to social saying they loved an episode so they started picking it apart before putting their thoughts out there so they could be on trend with the haters who were gonna pile on if they didn’t fall in line.

Seriously if there’s ever a down fall to doctor who the ‘fans’ will be it because they would rather hate on the thing they supposedly love than love it. And ever era has its super questionable moments but if you bring them up for any other era you just being petty, or it isn’t that big of a deal, or ‘it’s of the time’ it’s just excuse after excuse.

I’ve seen people upset about the fact that RTD dead named Rose in the star beast, something very legitimate because now all the right wing idiots of the fandom use that name and the people who were upset get piled on if they say anything because they should be happy that RTD is trying to give them representation… but these same people when Chibs tried to give rep though a female doctor, or an episode like Rosa or Ryans disability, say Chibs is a right wing capitalist, sexist, racist, ablest, you don’t hear them saying hey he was really trying by getting people of colour to write their stories, by getting directors with the same heritage to direct episodes, he work with a dyspraxia organisation to help write Ryan, brought in the first 2 female Doctors and the 1st Doctor of colour who was also a woman, the 1st master of colour, the first Doctor who admitted to having feeling for a companion of the same sex and the episode where the doctor admits those feeling is co written with a queer woman, oh no Chibs gets no grace for tryi neg he did everything wrong but RTD everyone should be thankful for.

I don’t understand the level of hate. Not liking something is one thing but a part of this fandom has made 13 era who seem like the anti christ of Doctor Who, when really it tried a lot harder to involve more people in it then ever before.

[minimoefoe]

Thoughts on Chibnall and Jodie Sticking Around

I tried to make this less rambley but it didn’t really work. Starts out kinda put together but gets a bit ranty towards the end. Feel free to send me a message/ask about anything DW related, I could chat about it for days.

I’m writing this assuming that this is accurate information and means that Chibnall will be staying until at least Series 15 and ‘same cast’ means Jodie will be staying until Series 15.

Posted: 03.08.2020

- I’ve had a feeling for a while, or maybe it was just wishful thinking, that Jodie would get more than three seasons. I literally wasn’t worried about Series 13 being her last one because I just didn’t think it would be. I was hoping that she would get four but five is even better. I think six seasons would be too much of one Doctor.

- I think I’ve thought this because Series 11 didn’t really have much going on in terms of a big arc or storyline, it was just individual episodes. And as much I love all the episodes, if Thirteen only does three Seasons, and one of those Seasons is Series 11 where nothing really happens, it would feel like a huge waste of 10 episodes with such an amazing actor and Doctor.

[more under the cut]

- To me, Chibnall’s era is much more different to Moffat and RTD than Moffat and RTD are to each other. It might just be me but generally when I’m watching I don’t notice a massive difference between RTD’s Era and Moffat’s Era. It really isn’t a bad thing that Chibnall’s Era is so different to Moffat and RTD, I think a lot of my issues with it is more of a me problem than a Chibnall problem because I just don’t like change.

- I think the main issue I have with Chibnall’s Era is that some of the writing just isn’t that good. Sometimes it feels awkward and cringey or like someone irl would never say something in that way and I’ve never felt that while watching Doctor Who before. It doesn’t happen enough to make me not want to watch but when I notice it, I notice it and I really don’t like it. Some of the moments might be down to the writing and some might be down to delivery, I really don’t know.

- I think Chibnall staying could make some people stop watching but generally, I think the people that love Thirteen and Chibnall’s Era are the silent majority, or they’re vocal but on platforms where the DW team are less likely to see - like Tumblr. The people commenting under literally everything saying Jodie is bad or Chib is bad are the loud minority and the BBC probably know that. 

- The people that hate the current era of Doctor Who also seem to know an awful lot about it considering they hate it so much which makes me think that even though they don’t like it anymore, they still watch just so they can do some complaining whenever an official Doctor Who account posts literally anything. And I do get it, if you’re attached to a show then you’ll probably carry on watching regardless of how bad it gets because it just means a lot to you, I know I probably would. (And Doctor Who hasn’t even got bad, people are just dramatic. It’s different. Different doesn’t mean bad). But I just feel like if you’re subjecting yourself to something you know you don’t like then it’s a you problem. It’s not Chibnall’s fault that you don’t like his stuff and yet you continue to watch it and complain about it on Facebook and Twitter. Maybe you should just suffer in silence.

- Other than a bit of clunky writing, Series 12 was incredible and if Chibnall’s next few Seasons are anything like that then I really don’t think we need to worry about the show going off air anytime soon. And to be honest, Doctor Who is the sort of show that doesn’t ever need to be cancelled. If a showrunner or Doctor is genuinely disliked by so many people that most people stop watching, then there are probably other writers out there itching to become showrunner and other actors who would love to play the Doctor. It wouldn’t be too hard to move on from the Doctor/showrunner people don’t like and just carry on with new people.

- I really can’t be bothered with people saying that it’s not fair that Jodie gets more than three seasons when everyone else has had three. If it was so important for every Doctor to do three seasons then we wouldn’t have only had Nine for one season. They aren’t going to change their mind just because a few assholes on the internet think it’s a bad decision. The Doctor should stick around for as long as is needed to tell their story. And imo, Thirteen needs more than three seasons for that to happen.

- For some reason people seem to think that ‘same cast’ means we’re keeping Yaz, Ryan and Graham for all five season and I’m like a billion percent sure that that is not the case. We know (I think) that Ryan and Graham are leaving in the Christmas special and then Series 13 is just going to be Thirteen and Yaz. I don’t know where people are getting that it’s gonna be all four of them for the whole of Thirteen’s run. Please grow a braincell or two. 

- In an ideal world, Thirteen would spend Series 13 with Yaz and then Series 14 and 15 with a new companion. I need to see Thirteen travelling with one person which is what I’m pretty sure we’re getting with Yaz in Series 13 and then I really want her to travel with someone that hasn’t been there the whole time she has been Thirteen, i.e. someone not from Team TARDIS. Maybe a companion from like 50-200 years ago since all companions so far in New Who have been from the 21st century. 

- I think I also would quite like the new companion in Series 14 and 15 to be there when the Doctor regenerates and stick around for half a season, or a full season depending on much I like them lmao. If Fourteen is a man, I would like to see how the companion would deal with the Doctor going from woman to man and how it could change their dynamic.

- Also, I saw someone say they can’t believe there’s been another huge break in Seasons and I’m like bro, we’re in a fucking pandemic rn. Like, I’m also pissed about it but it’s not their fault Jesus.

- Also also, I am all for giving opinions on things you dislike, especially in regards to something you usually love, which I have done a few times with DW, but Doctor Who ‘fans’ really do go above and beyond to just spew hate all over the place and I’m so tired. Like, maybe be a bit critical? Or a tiny bit constructive? Commenting on every Facebook post about how downhill the show has gone really doesn’t do anything for anyone. It’s not an argument or an open discussion it’s just straight up hate.

In conclusion, I love Jodie and I’m happy she is staying. I really like Chib and I’m glad he is staying. Haters gonna hate. Suck my ass.

[pickingstars-blog1]

This isn't me trying to defend Ten from his actions, but Ten's treatment of Jackie (which, yes, was gross, as was his treatment of Mickey and Martha) can be compared to Twelve's awful treatment of Clara in series eight. He verbally brutalized Clara for a long stretch of episodes (and Danny, for that matter). Basically, the Doctor can be a huge dick in every incarnation. Nine and Eleven also had their gross moments. Hoping Thirteen moves away from the fold in that regard!

I absolutely agree RE Twelve in Series Eight. He was horrible to Clara. Horrible. However, I’d defend his attitude in this instance, because it does serve a narrative purpose, and Twelve is promptly called out by Clara, and the narrative, for his behaviour, and the development of their relationship throughot Eight and Nine is one of the most complicated, wonderfully written, wonderfully consistent, and wonderfully compelling dynamics in the show’s history. Twelve’s initial coldness is a vital component to this so yeah!

With Ten though, I never feel like his attitude problems are ever narrative deliberacy, instead they come across as writing idiosyncracy. The Jackie stuff in particular is indicative of a further issue with Classism in the show. I love Russell T Davies to bits, but he seemed to have a real real problem with this throughout his era of DW. (I mean Mickey’s name was originally meant to be Muggsy for goodness sake. Muggsy.) Poor Jackie starts her run on the show as a living, breathing, walking, talking working-class single-mum stereotype. One of her very first scenes literally shows her trying, to the audience’s amusement/second-hand embarassment, to seduce The Doctor. Because of course, all working-class middle-aged single mums are MAN-HUNGRY ammirite? Though she has some wonderful moments of character development, (”Is my daughter safe/10 seconds” in World War Three, practically all of Love and Monsters) she never quite breaks free of being the butt of the joke. Of being the man-hungry, money-hungry, desperate, middle-aged, working-class single mum. And doesn’t The Doctor love to make fun of her for that! Incidentally, Russell’s other mums, Francine Jones and Sylvia Noble, don’t fare much better, either being written as horrible people, or like Jackie, the butt of the joke. sometimes they are even both…

(Something I want to add is that despite this, RTD’s done a lot of good with Class issues, too. I think the Tyler family are groundbreaking conceptually. Where else do we have a working class family living in a flats in a London Councul Estate as lead protagonists in a mainstream sci-fi juggernaut?! Rose is a pivotal and revolutionary character in the history of sci-fi, whether people enjoy her character or not - I personally adore her, Series 4 notwithstanding!).

Thing is, I’m never quite clear what the Tenth Doctor’s character arc is trying to be. I haven’t watched his era from beginning to end in a few years so forgive me if the following is off the mark, but from what I remember, there’s some deconstruction about the deification of The Doctor which is nice, but not very consistent, and outside of that?? There’s…not very much at all, beyond “woe is me I’m so alone and my heart is broken”. His first episode sets him out as being a man of ruthlessness, a “no second chances”, bringing-down-the-government kind of a man. It is on him that The Master was able to run for election and win in Series Three. Ten, by proxy, causes the mass-suffering of the entire human race, all in his first episode. The problem? This is never, ever, addressed narratively. In The Last of the Time Lords, he is presented as our saviour. As our literal Jesus figure (don’t think those Lazarus symbolisms aren’t deliberate) he is reincarnated through the power of prayer. “He has saved your lives so many times” Martha tells us, but what about the times he’s destroyed them? What about that?!

There’s a story here about the Tenth Doctor’s arrogance that could have been an incredible character arc. For a moment in The Waters of Mars it looked like this might have come to fruitition. All those idiosyncracies, all those hypocracies, (”I Never Would!!!” The Doctor seethes, having just last episode attempted to massacre an entire spaceship full of Sontarans), all the horrible ways he’s treated Jackie, and Martha, and even Harriet Jones, would, as with the Twelfth Doctor, mean something. A tale of Hamartia, of Hubris. But suddenly we’re swept right back into a drowning in self-pity ‘look how great I am’ Tenth Doctor, in a ‘look how great he is’ two-part regeneration story that double-back flips at least fifty metres away from his character progression in the very last story:

The End of Time gives us Ten at his most arrogant, at his most haughty, but unlike in The Waters of Mars, we are asked to celebrate him this time. For??? Reasons….I guess…because damn it he could do so much more, right!!? So much more!! There are fleeting moments, Wilf’s “Don’t you dare put him before them” speech for example, in which we can see a more morally complex story shine through, but by the episode’s end, those moments are left clouded by “I don’t want to go” wasn’t-ten-so-selfless-and-amazing-please-stay-fuck-Matt-Smith hysteria. 

Sorry this went off topic a tad….for the record, I agree about Thirteen. I think Chibs will be working very hard to make her a super popular, super likeable, super charming Doctor. Particularly because, as our first female Doctor, she’ll be held up to scrutiny, I think that’ll be one of the biggest priorities next series. (Also each Doctor is ultimately a creation and reflection of the actor portrayng them. Jodie is self-proclaimed feminist from Yorkshire so I’m pretty sure Thirteen will be utterly amazing purely on the basis of that!)

Thanks for your ask!

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