#and the idea of a romance that transcends that. reconciles who you are with who you are Not. or may not be.

[michiganmerchant]

something 2 be said about romances in the public eye ... Wahh

[mmmmalo]

Do you have any thoughts on the super popular headcanon transgirl John?

Been pretty resistant to it, since it doesn’t seem to mesh with the idea of John seeking to merge with the image of Dad, which I’ve read as alternately realized in John becoming the Dad of a family unit and in his gay thoughts (for his Dad or others). But the fact that ‘merging with an image’ is an impossibility that requires interpretation to be brought into reality means there are some exploitable cracks in that position, which I’ll try to outline.

An acquaintance of mine once suggested that John’s dabbling in ectobiology (in Mom’s lab robes no less) constitutes appropriation of the feminine – on the grounds that the scifi trope of penis (bearers) creating life without vagina (bearers) should be viewed not simply as an aspiration to a (gender neutral) God-like capacity for emanation, but as a jealousy of the opposite sex. This would be one approach to June – to read the fantasy of reproduction via busting-out-ghosts (ie manbro bukkake theater) as necessitating a desire to embody feminine characteristics, and to proceed from there. 

But I’m also acutely aware that within the confines of heterosexuality, gay thoughts can entail positioning oneself as the opposite gender (in a “i would have to be a girl to like guys!” sort of way) – which is to say, John “i am not a homosexual” Egbert could potentially reconcile that statement with his attraction to men by identifying as a girl (even if that’s in tension with the identification with Dad that’s packaged with the attraction to men?) – but this is not necessarily the case, since depending on the configuration of John’s head, he could just as easily come to the realization that he does /not/ have to be a girl to like guys, and that his statement was a denial.

[Tangential: I read Nedry in Jurassic Park as being gay before (x) on the basis of his loading an embryo (amber mosquito) into a phallic symbol (shaving cream) and later being blinded by bukkake (poison spit), but for similar reasons as the above, I suppose trans woman is also a valid reading]

There’s also the matter of Nanna – that John’s birth entailed her mortal fall from the ladder could imply that John actually sees Nanna as the image from which he is descended (and thus seeks to return to), though this is in tension with moments that imply Dad is highest… likewise, since kernelsprites represent wishes, the existence of Nannasprite swings the pendulum towards identification with the feminine… while John’s association of clowns with Dad swings the pendulum right back again, perhaps suggesting Nannasprite as the reconciliation of the competing ideals. (Perhaps related to how Jane aspires to certain masculinized ideals while still viewing herself as a girl?)

More on that tension: on pages 48-50, John swings from vilifying the aromas of his nemesis Betty Crocker (Dad is actually the one who bakes, so the aromas are actually Fatherly?), to insulting Dad and the associated harlequins, to waxing romantic on transcendent Platonic Forms at the fireplace (above which sits the image of Nanna and her ashes). This is also the moment where John invokes pale fire snatching its light from the sun, which brings us to the Thief of Light.

It’s very interesting that Vriska interrupts a dream in which John nearly re-unites (ie merges) with (the image of) Dad. (And in the subsequent conversation no less, John reads Vriska’s elongation of his name as “June”) Could be related to John discussing how Dad is more of a half-brother than a father, while acknowledging Nanna as the true source? And thus the true target of aspiration.

Also interesting that Vriska acknowledges that John’s session is doomed to fail, in light of her seemingly representing John’s realization that he cannot (or does not want to?) become his father. Her insistence that he should try to win anyway (because winning is the only point of anything) also seems loaded in the context of the parallel discussion of ideals… likewise, John’s insistence that winning is still possible becomes an insistence that dreams CAN come true. Vriska manifests again as John muses on the desecration (and decaptation?) of his Con Air poster, upon which Nic Cage has become a sad clown… which relates to John’s ongoing disillusionment with Dad…? (Finding out that Dad was a boring businessman was a while ago though). Reminds me that the phrasing of ‘reunite with your loving wife and daughter’ can at once represent union with the masculine role of husband AND union with the feminine… so I’m lost again? Very possible that masculine/feminine is just an inadequate dichotomy, but let’s ignore that and press forward.

(I am skipping around re-evaluating the events surrounding conversations with Vriska at this point, since the circumstances of her intro seem to be a pivot)

…in John’s first conversation with Kanaya (after which Vriska manifests for the Remember Me date) is prompted by John preparing to send his gift to Jade, which I don’t know what to make of. However, the conversation dips into a discussion of Contact (need to watch), pivoting on the ambiguous reality of Jodie Foster’s vision of her Dad, which Matthew [horse-noises] has faith in – so we’ve returned to the topic of John musing on his own dreams of Dad, and everything that entails. That reminder is followed by perhaps the most damning exchange:

…which suggests that the applicability of John’s tangent is gender skepticism? But let’s return later to evaluate the resulting Vriska convo – I want to stay linear here. Vriska next manifests as John prepares to kiss Ghost Dad:

…after which Vriska mostly berates John for waiting around and not doing things when he’s supposed to, despite her being the very reason that he is forced to wait. This seems appropriate insofar as union with the Father also represents union with the divine will (in the Stoic sense), to which the Heir of Breath’s openness to suggestion is an end. So the confusion and frustration of Vriska’s orders constitutes an interruption of this fantasy of doing exactly what you’re supposed to do (ie what god/the player tells you to do), which is visually represented by Vriska preventing John from kissing Bill Cosby? I think… though since John’s present objective is to meet up with Nannasprite, I feel like the roles are blurring again… (even more so when Nanna reminds John that he is also sort of HER father)

John’s penchant for playing pranks on the bossy aliens who claim to rule him, submitting disingenuous words for them to repeat, is also a disruption of this supposed order… and/or John’s way of claiming the God-status for himself? Vriska makes the disruption of the way things are ‘supposed to be’ more explicit later when she berates John for initiating a conversation…

Anyway, the rest of this gets very rambly and speculative, so I’m placing it under the cut. Long, incoherent read.

The next “moment” that strikes me spans from 3386 to 3468, from John spotting the Hussie-Rufio kiss in the clouds to Vriska’s giant X-marks-the-spot. Crucially, these moments (emphasizing a father-son kiss and feminine anatomy) are bridged by Seek the Highbl00d – implying that that flash functions as an expression of John’s thoughts, just as Return to the Core was an expression of Jade’s thoughts. What follows is an attempt to make sense of the dream – I expect to fail in some capacity, but I will do my best.

3386: Hussie emphasize that Rufio saw Peter as a father-figure, so Hussie’s attempted revival involve bestowing the breath of life upon a son-figure. SMOOCH! (It bears repeating that the insertion of the divine breath into inert matter also has bearing as John’s self-conception as a video game avatar, animated by a divine will)

3393: The kiss appears in the clouds of Skaia above John, meaning that the thought of being kissed by his Dad is running though his head. He is transfixed by this image (for hours!)

3401: Since the instillation of breath into inert matter is often tinged with traces of necrophilia (corpsesmooch!) WV imbibing shaving cream “like the wind” seems like a euphoria tinged with sensuality, as though John leafing through his Dad’s wallet with a recently conferred sense of responsibility is akin to Terezi falling in red kool-aid (there’s no way he’s not getting off on this)

3410: WV compared buckling himself into the drivers seat to his (imminent) assumption of the title of mayor. The position of driver linked to a role of authority…

3414: …so as John takes off into the sky, we get another peak at the moment that Gamzee first declared himself God, to insinuate John similarly feels like he’s on top of the world. The SBaHJ complements this – John is riding his 4-wheel device into the sky (thus achieving unreal air) up to a cloud labeled clown (which is associated with fatherhood). John feels as though he’s achieved the ideal.

3419: The main takeaway from John’s conversation with Jade for me is that he is anxious about the idea of his Dad marrying Mom (jealousy?) and also anxious about idea of himself getting married… inclined to read this as John getting antsy about some of what (he believes) being an adult man necessarily entails, which here means getting wife. The comment about “a shipping grid made by an alien” strikes me as a tongue-in-cheek jab at heterosexuality as GOD’S PLAN, given John and Karkat’s previous conversation about Superman.

It’s also striking to me that the many of the cloud visions John describes were of Jade, if the idea that the clouds function as internal mirrors holds. I suppose the vision of Jade surrounded by frogs means he’s thinking of reproduction, even before he brings of romance… and Jade worrying about if the frogs are going in a cauldron is interesting, considering her infanticide motifs…anyway,

3420: John commented about discomfort at the Crosby tops blinking at the beginning of the Jade convo, and now that it’s staring me in the face I feel compelled to contend with it. I think… it’s sort of a call back to page 1, with John blinking and staring directly at the camera. The moment of locking eyes across the forth wall – the moment orders started entering the command prompt, the moment union with God (the player) started. I’m not sure if, looking at that blinking computer, John regards himself as the player or the played.

Anyway, Karkat has manifested, and he is terrified of Gamzee – John asks him what’s up, which in context of the above is a haunting echo of Gamzee’s first line, which then too functioned as a questioning of the nature of hierarchy. (“What /is/ up? What is authority? What is divinity?” - you have to read it literally) John makes WV stop honking the car in response to Karkat’s mortal terror of honking – not sure if this means John is the Gamzee figure, all the car beeps triumphant honks upon having ascended to the domineering position of godhood, or if John is Karkat here, experiencing terror of the various potentials of his ascension. Perhaps both, perhaps neither. Moving on…

3422: John contacts Karkat (again, reversing the way that trolling is “supposed” to work… I think John is the only kid to initiate contact pre-act 6?)… but otherwise I’m not getting a lot out of this conversation. The panel though, I will note, uses the arrangement of clouds from 4 panels prior to emphasize that John is heading towards and unseen castle. After the upcoming sequence, he will crash into a tree… suggesting that Seek the Highbl00d represents an end to whatever high John’s currently on?

3427: Karkat just took a fall down some stairs in response to the terror of a honk… which places him squarely on Earth instead of Heaven… (important only insofar as it establishes Gamzee as high and Karkat as low, for the purposes of this scene). Terezi manifests, poorly attempting to hide her excitement about murder (which makes sense, since murder!Gamzee originally manifested for Karkat?). This implies that Karkat’s own terror is accompanied by titillation… and retroactively means that John’s anxiety about sex masks an excitement that he regards as unbecoming?

Then Terezi honks – ostensibly, because Gamzee has claimed her glasses (leading Karkat/us to believe she has been killed). But the appearance that Terezi honked is perhaps equally important…? It’s as though the enthusiasm for murder which Gamzee presently embodies has possessed her, as she kissed Tavros’s corpse? (Worth noting that the depiction of her corpse-smooch directly preceded the Hussie-Rufio kiss, which John responds to by… getting in the car and honking a bunch, as he approaches the sky-image of a megalomaniacal Gamzee?)

3431: Things are getting weird now, and I’m starting to lose my grip on how this all relates to John. Quoth Equius, “Are you saying the highb100d has finally embraced his position atop the hierarchy” (in response to happy Gamzee murder times) – which in context suggests that this is well within what John considers the tyrannical rights of a father, somehow. Or of a God, I suppose – whatever you wanna call that-which-occupies-the-highest-rung….

Also, seeing as Karkat is manifesting for Equius, Karkat asking if Equius is still strong means Equius is questioning his own strength… why? The only context we get is that he is looking at Nepeta, and is somehow enmeshed in Egbert’s psychodrama…

CG: THE POINT IS, IF YOU SEE HIM, WOULD YOU MIND SNAPPING HIS STUPID WAND IN HALF OR SOMETHING? CG: AND THEN CHOKE HIM TO DEATH WITH HIS OWN SHITTY PRETENTIOUS SCARF.

Weird future-echoes of Equius’s death in Karkat’s words… the motif of Breath is definitely significant, seeing as the transmission of the animating breath of life is the key act of God here, and thus representative of total domination…? Whereas choking the breath out of someone would mean…?

I’m getting ahead of myself, perhaps.

CG: JUST DO WHAT I SAY, OK. CT: D –> I will 100k into it

An ominous note to end on, given that Equius’s willingness to combat orders from above is part of his conflict here.. but also, because of the motifs of self-alienation, orders from above /includes/ orders from within (ie urges)…? Or should I consider those at odds, in an id/super-ego kind of way? God I’m confused

3437: All I’ve gathered from Terezi’s proceedings  here (which lead into Seek the Highbl00d) is that she is projecting all of her concepts of criminal debauchery onto Vriska – which you could compare to all the absurd clown theatrics that John used to project onto Dad, but there’s no particular reason to privilege that at the moment…

I will admit that John’s fear of disillusionment (of the collapse of the ideal, the fall from the Pleroma to Earth) is giving me some confirmation bias which may be clouding/guiding my appraisal of the proceedings. I will try to remain openminded.

3438 (Seek the Highbl00d): Oh boy here we go

This is… something? Cats are a child symbol, so to call someone feline-obsessed is to call them baby crazy (see: Roxy). Earlier, John was “joking” about a desire to sink the Mom-Dad ship – and later, Bec Noir’s murder of Mom and Dad realizes the fantasy (Noir’s bloody footprints lead Rose to John, further implicating him as source). If Equius and Nepeta are doing parodies of eachother’s masculinity/femininity here, only to be brutally killed, could this be regarded as precursor…? But the deaths themselves bear no resemblance at all…

I guess the idea of Dad having Equius’s attitude of being SO PROUD that his son has finally decided to kill him for supremacy is funny to me (even more so, but I’m not sure that it checks out…

…okay, when Nepeta is checking out her shipping wall she emphasizes the role reversal in Karkat Gamzee so I guess that’s our focus here?

…for Nepeta to enter the grate placed along the wall of ships makes it as though she entering the wall, the unreal place where all the possible union are true? Or that could just be where the grate is

…Kanaya sliced the left most transportalizer, which prevents her from being followed, but also from going back where she came from. Gamzee’s “miracles” imply a child-like state of blissful ignorance – the announcement of a miracle at this juncture, along with Nepeta travel in the direction that Kanaya has marked as impossible, make it seem as though Nepeta is going into the past…? So the horror of what Nepeta sees in the final grate should reflect a (possibly falsified) rendition of the past?

…likewise the arrow fired into the chessman’s eyes seems to suggest being blinded by the light (also the motif with Rose jabbing her ogre’s eyes out), hinting that some horrible truth lies ahead.

The truth being that, like Equius, John finds joy not in domination but submission? Or the reverse, if Gamzee is the figure of identification…? Or if this is truly a look into the past, this would be how John has come to regard his own relationship with Dad? As brutal subjugation, and forced deference? Which he has nonetheless come to fetishize (as per Equius’s ecstasy)? (If this were absolutely a memory, it would not be outlandish to accuse Dad of sexual abuse, given how Equius looks like he’s giving Gamzee head while he’s being choked, as though Equius were actually gagging on a dick. But for lack of any other instance of this coming up, it seems more likely to me that John has eroticized otherwise normal interactions with Dad?)

…but then what of the death of Nepeta? Is her failed attempt to avenge herself upon this past also a part of the dream? Does Gamzee scarring himself imply and integration of Equius’s knack for taking pleasure in pain?

3462: …or rather, Nepeta’s death marks the exact point that we exit the dream, the car’s beeps one again replacing Gamzee’s honks. So it’s as though she was John’s eyes, preparing to die a second death at the hands of the patriarch, and the result is an awakening, and fall back to Earth (crashing the car again).

3465: Oh goody, Vriska’s manifesting in response to all of this as John arrives at the castle. Please enlighten me Vriska, I’m dreadfully confused.

3466: Vriska telling John he looks great with his hood up reminds me of Vriska telling him how great he looks in her clothes, making me wonder if the windsock hoodie is being construed as long hair. In which case, as per Egbert’s weird gendering of hierarchy, it’s possible that his ultimate refusal to consider upending the total authority of (his image of) Dad comes with the feminization of himself…? Hence Vriska’s current interjection.

3467: …the doubt and regret surrounding Vriska’s lifetime of murder is loaded in a way I am utterly failing to parse. I don’t think Homestuck ever painted aggression as a ‘masculine virtue’ or whatever so there’s no reason to take John’s vocal horror at the bloodshed as a feminine thing.

3468: X marks the spot…. why here, though?

…Vriska seems to be making the connection between violence and sexuality, both noting that the game selects players on the cusp of sexual maturity and contending that if Karkat hadn’t done such a great job of brokering the peace between teams, perhaps more of them would have god tiered…

Her observation that the dead-girl (Aradia) had John’s same laptop is ominous for some reason. I know the kids have a paranoia that they are in the Matrix, and that if the die/wake up, they will suddenly be real – but stuff like this always makes me paranoid that someone is /actually/ secretly dead, like Aradia. Hate that feeling.

…more likely that John views himself as metaphorically dead, as a mere hollow vessel before the divine will, and thus feminized before God? But my ability to parse all of this deteriorated like 20 pages ago.

3475: involves Vriska and John musing how alike they are in emulating their ancestors, for anyone who wasn’t aware that was a Thing

…and we’re done. Well that was pointless. Let’s go to the point were dead!John and Vriska go on a date. Vriska opens up with a reminder that she made John change close, then mostly teases John about how she will kill him, as John intermittently brings up Little Monsters.

Did you know that in Little Monsters, the tire swing is used to represent a noose? It’s like when Vriska accused John of being obsessed with her as he attempted to prototype Grandpa’s blue beauties… the undertone was that he was obsessed with death (through the medium of the crypto corpses). Which is, more characterization of the dead/vessel as implicitly feminine or?

…I’m not learning a lot going through their d8 again, but I sure am getting sad.

…Yeah I’m getting nothing, psychology-wise. We’re done here.

[polytheism-and-me]

As someone who doesn't believe in the necessity of a gender binary and as a queer pagan who doesn't believe that heterosexual love and/or marriage is the highest societal good so many people have tried to make it, I've been thinking about the marriages among the gods and how, more or less, uncomfortable I've been with the concept. Now obviously, our knowledge of what gods and goddesses are paired up comes from myth and these stories come from heteronormative and quite misogynistic (this can potentially be debated, but on the whole, women and feminine folks have been treated bad for a long ass time) ancient cultures. So, and this is a very broad question that I'm only using on the topic of marriage, but how do we reconcile ancient stories and thoughts with modern sensibilities and how do we go about honoring the gods and their truths in the process?

I've seen a lot of pagans take the fact that "so and so god" is married to "so and so goddess" at face value and there's an assumption that these marriages mirror human ones. That the point is for us to see proper marriage among the gods and do the same ourselves. But this seems simplistic to me and doesn't account for the fact that fidelity is expected in our relationships, but deities are constantly having dalliances. But then we also assume marriage is based on affection and love whereas the ancients included affection, but marriage was also political or of necessity or bargaining.

This is really easy to see in the marriage of Skaði and Njorðr. Their relationship is founded on a bargain, not on shared affection. And their's is truly a meeting of opposites. As I thought about it, nearly every marriage relationship among the gods struck me in the same way: a meeting of opposite sides of a spectrum. To the ancients (or perhaps more accurately the Christians who wrote their stories down) gender was 2 opposites, so it makes sense to represent this merging of 2 poles in a human way of understanding: namely heterosexual romance.

Skaði is the mountains, Njorðr the sea; Loki is chaos, Sigyn is order; Thor is the sky, Sif the earth; Frigga is the familiar, Odin the unknown. These marriages, during the middle of which we find our existence, shows us not the shallow ideas of what marriage is supposed to be, but instead the spirirual truths of living in this universe: everything is a spectrum to which there are 2 well defined ends but life and love and "something bigger than ourselves" transcendent meaning is found somewhere in the middle, in the multitude. That these ends are represented by a man/woman dichotomy is because that was easiest to understand and continues to be for most people. But there's more to it. A good while ago I received the upg that Frey and Tyr had a bit of a romantic relationship and only now as I'm thinking on the subject do I realize that it's because of this same phenomenon of opposites. Frey is peace while Tyr is war. But here the dichotomy is not represented by the quintessential god/goddess pair but rather by 2 male gods. So what's stopping it from being that way elsewhere? Nothing, as far as I'm concerned, except convenience. We live in a cisnormative and heteronormative culture so this is palatable to us.

But the gods can appear as they like, and they can be as they like. Freya schooled me a month or 2 ago when I saw a post where someone saw her as a transwoman. I sort of shrugged to myself and had half a thought directed toward Freya that "that's interesting but I don't see you like that at all", to which I received a divine sucker punch (Freya's preferred mode of conversation) and Freya's voice saying "I look and I am how I please". Thanks to the "different path, same mountain" type thinking that characterizes most new age/neo-pagan/etc thought, it isn't a revolutionary idea to say that deities appear in different ways to different people, but it's the paradox that intrigues me. That they ARE however they want or however they appear. The gods take any shape they want and it does not lessen them. Freya as falcon is still Freya as goddess. Freya is a ciswoman to me, but a transwoman to someone else, but a demigirl to someone else, but a man to someone else and the list goes on. Freya IS a ciswoman, IS a transwoman, IS a demigirl, IS a man. Despite some things being "opposite" she is them all and all at the same time because gods are paradoxes and damn beautiful because of it and EVERYTHING is a spectrum and heterosexual marriage is not always a window into mirroring the divine and the rules are made up and the points don't matter.

The gods are bigger than we can ever understand. Their relationships are more complex than we will ever grasp. Their stories have way more meaning encoded in them than any bard who first wrote them could comprehend. The gods are not stoic and unchanging figures. They are as dynamic and alive and changing as their worshippers (and even then some). The gods are queer in every sense of the word. Don't box them in or pin them down like dead moths cause as soon as you get a grip on them, they'll wriggle out of your grasp, twisting and turning like smoke.

[marta-bee]

I’ve been noticing lately a lot of crossover between the Sherlock and Tolkien fandoms. If we were just talking about BBC productions and the Jackson productions I’d see it easily enough -- Freebatch love does tend to transcend all boundaries. But what I’m noticing are book fans who are truly hardcore fans of both verses.

Which I love, no doubt! But it also really surprises me because the fandoms and the universes are just so different. Tolkien spent his lifetime building a really well-imagined but only half-published universe, working out the philosophical (and philological) underpinnings of the reality, and it apparently really bothered him when details in the published versions didn’t line up. Just look at the lengths he went to reconcile the stories of how Bilbo got the Ring in the first-edition Hobbit vs what he finally went with in Lord of the Rings. That means there are drafts upon drafts, canon, pseudocanon, letters to adoring fans and letters to publishers and just a very intimidating (but brilliant!) quagmire to wade into if you are so inclined.

And quite a few of us fans are, in the best way. Ask us whose Gil-Galad’s father one of these days, if you don’t believe me. Or (God forbid) just what Tom Bombadil is.

On top of which the fandom itself is actually pretty conservative, at east as I experience it. I don’t mean politically, necessarily (though there is that) -- there’s just this sense that JRRT cared an awful lot about the details, and most people I know in that fandom buy into the whole author-god idea in a way Sherlock (at least BBC Sherlock) fandom just... doesn’t. Working within what he would have approved of, given his perceived Edwardian and old-fashioned-for-his-times Roman Catholic background matters a good bit, too, and the fandom seems much less driven by romance, and much less accepting of slash in a lot of ways. (The Hobbit movie fandom is the exception here, I think.) Even in the Doyle fandom, there’s this sense that we don’t really need to mess with what Doyle says where it interferes with a good story -- that canon is more about added spice for zest than the structure we build the story around.

None of which is meant as a criticism of either group, believe me. I obviously am at home in both circles, nd I’m not the only one. But the overlap does strke me as a bit.... odd.

So: fellow dual Doyle/Tolkien-ophiles: what gives here? Any insight why so many of us are drawn to both worlds, other than their shared wonderfulness?