#and there were saami people who had not been forced converted

[norsesuggestions]

little lutheranisms things

telling people that the way to be a good christian is to understand god through intellectual indepent study of the bible

THEN

when they follow your teaching and get like, their own ideas. just kill them. kill them all. who needs parish members anyway? honestly.

also kill people that don’t go to church, people of other faiths, kill people that looked at the priest weirdly. just. none of the catholic guilt thing, in swedish lutheranism it is obey or death

*the creepy stare of the historical swedish lutheran church who historically really were.... something else allright.*

[sisterofiris]

Was there any “Christo-Paganism” in the ancient Mediterranean, as in the worship of both Jesus and other deities? I heard of people praying to both Jesus and Apollon

Yes, it occurred in various forms.

For a start, blending a monotheistic faith with a polytheistic one wasn’t exclusive to Christianity: a number of Romans, in the early empire, became what could be called Jew-ish, meaning that they were drawn to Judaism and ascribed to many of its tenets but never formally converted. (In particular, many men were put off by the idea of circumcision.) However, while Jewish people had a unique status that allowed them to practise Judaism exclusively, refusing to convert made these Judeo-Romans still officially polytheists, and therefore obligated them to partake in the polytheistic state cult like everyone else. This resulted in them effectively practising both religions at once.

This popularity of Judaism actually helped Christianity’s own development: since the requirements for becoming Christian were less strict, many people who were interested in Judaism but didn’t want to go the whole way chose to become Christians instead. But even there, Christo-polytheism persisted for various reasons. The first was obviously persecution. Since Christianity is orthodox (one must believe the right thing) and Mediterranean polytheisms are orthopractic (one must do the right thing), it was easier to avoid trouble by being a Christian in belief and a polytheist in actions. This combined with a lack of consensus on what, exactly, being Christian meant, resulting in people who considered themselves Christians but kept up various practises and doctrines which would be viewed as heretic today. These are evidenced by Paul’s Epistles (especially 1 Corinthians and Galatians), in which he admonished Christian communities for not following the gospel properly.

The last reason for Christo-polytheism was simply habit. I can attest personally to the fact that, once you’ve been a polytheist for long enough (or in the case of many ancient people, your whole life), it’s hard to wrap your head around monotheism. You need to get used to a whole other way of thinking, along with a whole other set of religious customs - which, at the time, were deeply embedded in culture. See, for example, this interesting quote from 1 Corinthians:

τινὲς δὲ τῇ συνηθείᾳ ἕως ἄρτι τοῦ εἰδώλου ὡς εἰδωλόθυτον ἐσθίουσιν

Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god. (1 Corinthians 8:7, NIV)

Again, these were people who probably considered themselves Christians, but polytheism was so ingrained in them that they struggled to lose it completely.

Once Christianity became the dominant religion of the Roman empire, a new kind of Christo-polytheists arose: people who were religiously polytheists, but who converted to Christianity to avoid persecution. This must not have been too much of a difficult decision at first since, when you have many Gods, what’s one more? Eventually, however, there was a pressure to choose (or rather, a pressure to stop making offerings and get rid of your shrines, or die) and most people chose Christianity. This does not mean that they fully renounced their polytheistic practises; rather, these were kept and Christianised. Brigid became St Brigid of Kildare, Saturnalia merged with Christmas, and Zeus’ oracle in Dodona was turned into a church.

(In fact, you could argue that there are few places in the Christian world that don’t have some traces of Christo-polytheism. This is particularly present in indigenous communities, which tend to practise their traditional religions alongside a monotheistic one; when travelling in northern Norway, I remember a Saami man telling me that he was Christian, but also offered to the spirits of the area because how else would he ensure successful reindeer herding? The situation is a little more subtle elsewhere… but even the very town in which I live, right in the middle of Europe, despite being Christian for over a millennium, has its ancient spring festival in honour of an oak.)

The question, of course, is how intentional this double worship was in ancient times. Did Christo-polytheists truly consider themselves as belonging to both religions, as modern Christo-Pagans do? I would say that early Christians didn’t; their polytheism was either forced, or due to a lack of understanding of what Christianity entailed. Polytheists of the late empire, however, are more likely to have intentionally had a foot on each path, since adopting yet another God didn’t clash with their worldview, as it did for Christians.

[norsesuggestions]

So about nationalism, scandinavism, sweden and racism

A prime example the legacy of 19th century scandinavism in the symbolism of the swedish state is the swedish national anthem which never mentions the swedish kingdom by name but instead just talks about "the nordic region".

The bakground for that is that national romantics during the late swedish 19th century had a (100% unrealstic) dream of conquering all of the nordic countries and make it into 1 swedish kingdom. This ideal was totally distached from real life politics were sweden in real life had zero chance in hell of doing that in reality.

Sweden was though with a union with norway, which sweden had forced them into by gun point during the early 19th century. But by the late 19th it was becoming more and more clear that keeping norway in this forced union was impossible for the swedish state.

In that climate scandinavism grew in sweden. The reason sweden was in a forced union with norway was that sweden had been seperated from finland a then 100 years back. Finland fell under russian rule. The swedish considered what is today finland to be 100% the swedish kingdom (this was ofcourse the pov of the swedish elite which should be mentioned, wherehas one should remember that too had a agenda with their viewpoints. the parts of sapmi with the borders of modern day finland should not be forgotten, which were NOT treated the same way as the rest of the land within swedens borders but i digress)

Anyway, from the swedish elite pov sweden had been cut in half during the early 19th century, which was a blow to the nationalistic narrative. Basically they were like, without finland, who even are we ???

Instead of reconquering finland the new elected king of sweden forced norway into a union with sweden. This too, fit poorly into the nationalist narrative of "the kingdom of sweden"

An solution was then scandinavism and/or nordicism. Preaching about "the brotherhood of the nordic/scandinavian people" became a way for sweden to ALSO claim ownership of the nordic states. Simplified, there is a thread of "greater sweden" behind the retoric of "nordic brotherhood". The end point of the retoric was that sweden conquered finland+denmark (+iceland, which back then was not an independent state).

The concept was also built upon a basis of racial biology, were the "nordic race" was considered "superior" to all other "races" on earth. This aspect of scandinavism is the one were the majority of the real horrifying conqueses of the scandinavism concept lays. Because it was claimed that the "the nordic race" was "the rulers of nordic land" all other ethnic groups in sweden were "soppused" to "disappear". I hope you can see the direct link to nazi ideology here?

This is no concidence, but the direct effect of swedish academics with a racist ideology heavy involvement with german academia. These ideas, used by nazi germany, was very much developed with the cooperation of academics within the swedish university world. The list of swedish academics with strong ties to germany nazi party ideologists is long.

In sweden the effect of these racist views were a horrific racist treatment aimed towards saami people, romani people and jewish people.

Saami people are important to remember here, because they were the main obsession of the swedish states racial biology institute. They went through a horrific list of abuses, among them: forced nude photographies being taken by swedish Scientists, residentials schools for saami children which were drenched in racist policies towards the saami, the theft of land, the forced relocation of many saami families, forced to not speak their language and more. There were also a divide and conquer thing going on, were the swedish state selected certain saami families "to remain nomadic" and others to "become settled and be forced assimilited to become swedish". This policies were created without the consent of the saami people, and remain a painful and still bleeding wound within the saami communities in sweden. Forced sterilisation of saami people was also a thing.

The oppression against the romani was also horrific during this period (the 19th century and first half of 20th century). Here too, there was a "divide and conquer" policy. They made a difference between different romani groups depending on how long they been in sweden.

The ethnic group today called "resande" (swedish travellers) in sweden, are a people most likely descended of the the first group of romani that entered sweden in the 16th century. they were elected for forced assimilition to become "swedish". This group was also very targeted by forced sterilisation. Furthermore their children were often taken from them by the state on flimsy pretexts. They were to mayor targets of racial biology "research" and policies.

The romani group in sweden today called "svenska romer" (swedish roma) were many of the families came to sweden in the 19th century when the roma slavery in romania ended, were instead forced to live segreted from the swedish population. They were only allowed to stay 3 months in every region in sweden, not allowed to live in houses, not allowed to go to school and more. Here too forced sterilisation was wide spread.

For how jewish people were affected by these things in sweden i need to do more research. Antisemitism was very much a thing in this epoch in sweden, that I do know. sweden belonged among the european countries were ALL immigration of jewish people into sweden was illegal to the 18th century. In the mid - 19th century swedish jewish people could for the first time have a swedish citinzhip. in the 18th century the forced converting of jewish people to christianity was still very much a thing (gustav iii forexample had a massive forced converting of jewish people event in stockholm in the late 18th century.).

The swedish state also passivly allowed millions of jewish people to die practically on swedens door step during the holocaust, because they had an (unofficial i think??) policy of not letting jewish people into sweden during the holocaust (look on a Map to realise how horrific this policy was. Sweden borders all the baltic states, poland and germany by sea. They would literally send jewish refugees back during the holocaust in sweden).

But I need to look up what swedish nationalism meant for the jewish people actually living in sweden during the 19th century and first of half of the 20th century, because they very much existed.

So anyway, that is some bakground to way words like "scandinavism" and "nordicism" makes me, and many with living in the nordic countries, shudder in horror.

[norsesuggestions]

english language versions of the saami council in swedens website about the saami people

I thought i would share some excerpts to shine some light on it. i highly rec reading the texts at samer.se. it is a very good website, full of info about saami people, written by saami people. and it got lots of information in english! including the text excerpts shared below.

quoted from samer.se text about sapmis history, found at this link: http://www.samer.se/4535

The first written sources

(qouted from http://www.samer.se/4535)

Foreign people were already writing about the Sami hundreds of years ago. Most had never met any Sami themselves, but simply wrote down hearsay. The Sami were considered to be a fascinating and exotic people. For example, it was considered remarkable that both men and women hunted.

Germania The first written document to mention the Sami is believed to date from 98 AD. This is when the Roman historical writer Tacitus, in his book 'Germania', wrote about a people he called the Fenni: "They eat herbs, dress in animal skins and sleep on the ground. The only thing they trust are their arrows with bone tips. Men and women follow each other and support themselves on the same hunt.''

 [.....]

the struggle between the countries begins

(qouted from http://www.samer.se/4539)

When Sápmi was drawn in earnest into the sphere of interest of the surrounding nations in the Middle Ages, the region was viewed as a barren wasteland. There was no state here, the Sami lived in sijdda societies and had no common king or state apparatus. Each of the nation states wanted to gain control of this land and is riches. For several hundred years they disputed who actually had the rights to the land in the north.

Territorial claims Just as in other parts of the world, the churches in the Nordic region and Russia have supported their national governments in their endeavours to gain power in new areas. They assumed the right to condemn the beliefs of the Sami in the name of God. In this way the church supported the various countries' territorial claims in Sápmi. In Vadsö in northern Norway, a church and a fortress were both erected at the beginning of the 14th century. Mission The Church in Sweden began its missionary work in earnest at the beginning of the 17th century, when churches were built in several locations in Sápmi. The Church's goal was to convert the heathen Sami to Christianity. The intention of the Swedish Crown was to expand Sweden's territory to the north. Karl IX wanted to gain access to the fish-rich Northern Arctic Ocean, with the importance this would have for trade. In order to show the neighbouring countries that he should have preference here, he called himself `the King of the Lapps in the northern land'. Rights to the land Sweden was collecting tax from the Sami in this region, admittedly, but this was not sufficient to claim rights to the land, as Denmark/Norway and Russia were also collecting tax here. The best way of being able to say that the land was Swedish was for Swedes to live there, but it was difficult to get Swedes to move to the region. And the people who already lived there, the Sami, were not Swedes, Norwegians nor Russians. However, if the Sami were converted to Christianity and paid tax to the Swedish Crown, they could be counted as Swedish subjects and the land they inhabited could be called Swedish.

The Colonization of Sápmi

(qouted from http://www.samer.se/4543)

Despite being taxed and forcibly converted to Christianity, the Sami were viewed as unpredictable by the Swedish state. Their mobility as nomads was threatening and they could not safeguard the state's claim to the territory in the north.

For the state there was only one way out: Swedish farmers would have to move to the wilderness and cultivate it. With a settled farming population, they knew what they had, and this meant that they could claim territorial rights to the land. Claim territory However, there was little interest among Swedes in moving north. As long ago as the 16th century, King Gustav Vasa had been interested in encouraging people to move to the wilderness in the north. However, the event that really awakened the interest of the Swedish state in colonising the Sami region was the discovery of silver in Nasafjäll in 1634. With a silver mine in the Sami region, it became even more important to claim it as Swedish territory. The Lappmark Proclamation So what should be done to attract settlers to the north? The solution was the Lappmark Proclamation of 1673. This stipulated that anybody who settled in the Sami region would be granted tax exemption for 15 years and would not have to serve as a soldier in any war. The latter offer was a very attractive promise, because Sweden was often at war at that time. As the Sami's contribution to the public treasury was considered to be significant, it was stipulated that settlers were not allowed to disturb the Sami in the exercise of their trade, nor to colonise land in their Lapp tax lands, but only land that was considered to be unused. Sami forced back The Lappmark Proclamation was renewed in 1695. In this new version it was emphasised that the settlers should clear arable and pasture land, and that excess burn-beating should not occur. In Kemi Lappmark, the influx of settlers had entailed major problems for the Sami. That was the destination for the majority of the settlers, and they burn-beat the land as they advanced. Hunting and fishing were still the most important trades for the Sami in Kemi Lappmark, and burn-beating caused the game to disappear. The Sami complained time and again in the courts, and as the lay assessors were still Sami at this time, their complaints were met with understanding. The settlers were fined and ordered to cease with the burn-beating, but this did not help. During subsequent centuries, the Sami in Kemi Lappmark were consequently forced off their land. The Lappmark Regulation The state eventually realised that it was necessary to clarify the division of trades between settlers and Sami. The Lappmark Regulation therefore followed in 1749. In this it was determined that the settlers should primarily devote themselves to farming and the keeping of livestock. To ensure that they did not encroach too much on the Sami's trades, they should not spend too much time hunting. However, they were entitled to fish in the Sami fishing waters. The hunting and fishing rights extended for a radius of 5 km around the colony, although hayfields could be owned further away. The colonial rights were now also opened up to the Sami. The people in power thought that since the Sami and the settlers were supposed to use the lands in different ways, they could live side by side. In reality it wasn't possible to survive only by cultivating the soil in this harsh climate. Strong position Historically the Sami had a good reputation, especially the Vasa kings liked them because of their contributions to the public treasury. The Sami hade their own representatives in the old Swedish Riksdag, in the yeomanry, and they could exercise influence on their own trades. Up to the middle of the 18th century the position of the Sami in the Lappmark areas was fairly strong. The majority of the lay assessors could be Sami and their was both understanding and knowledge about the situation in the courts. In court disputes with settlers on land use, the Sami usually won. Reindeer herding was considered an important trade, alongside with agriculture and stock-raising.

The same rights All inhabitants in the Lappmark area had the same kind of rights up to the 19th century. Then colonization of the lands really took off and the Sami had to accept encroachment in the Lapp tax lands. More settlers resulted in more conflicts, especially about fishing lakes. The authorities' view on land properties gradually changed. More often the Sami lost court cases on land disputes.

Industrialization The industrialization changed everything. Water power plants and mining caused devastation of reindeer grazing grounds and hunting grounds. The state took the language, the lands and the common law from the Sami. Ideas about lower and higher races spread, Sami heads and bodies were measured in the name of racial biology and the extinction of the Sami people was merely a matter of time. Reindeer herding and Sami culture was a burden to the society. The Sami were supposed to settle down, assimilate and pursue other trades and occupations.

[image from samer.se at: http://www.samer.se/4641]