#and you're not homophobic you would be annoyed with hets too | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

whiskeyswifty · 11 months

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I've always found the whole "queer people should listen to queer artists" conversation bizarre, especially when it comes to Taylor, because I'm sure she herself would be flattered to learn that queer people are finding some sort of comfort/solace in their interpretations of her music – especially considering how loud she's been about her allyship in the last few years. The only real problem she would have (if we can even call it that) is if people were using that to make speculations about her personal life – which she doesn't like even when people do that with the MEN in her life.

The biggest popstar in the world advocating for and welcoming gaypeople with open arms is always going to be a big deal, no matter how much people try to underplay that and make it an exclusively het space. People have to accept that other gay people can like things that YOU, personally, think is boring or too cishet or whatever the fuck. Being gay is not a monolith, and gay experiences, just like every other human experience, are diverse! Who benefits from this kind of holier than thou snobbery anyway? (Feel free to ignore this lmao, I've just always found that kind of sneering and discourse annoying and lowkey homophobic, like "oh there is one right way to be gay and you're not it bc you like XYZ!!!" Fuck off. Anything can be about eating pussy if you try hard enough lmao)

i don't think you have to wonder about how she feels about gay people finding a connection in her music. she's been inviting countless queer people, including gay couples, to secret sessions and meet and greets on her tours for years. she performed king of my heart at a gay couple's engagement party as a surprise. she performed shake it off at stonewall. she has two male dancers dance to lover on this very tour. she clearly doesn't care if gay people relate her music to their life or find gay themes in it that they interpret their own way to their own experiences, at the very least. she's always been welcoming and encouraging of gay people to be a part of her fandom and relate to her art. the idea that taylor only wants people interpreting her music through the paparazzi photos the public has seen of her boyfriends or whatever is just homophobic bullshit for no reason other than their own bigotry and desire to keep gay people away from them. (long answer again trying not to clog people's dash lol)

insofar as the speculation about her life, idk what to tell you. people are always going to gossip and speculate, they've been doing it as long as human beings had language. a long time ago now it seems, she seemed to have accepted she would always have little control over it, and she logged off pretty much for good. which seems the healthiest way for her to carry on. the lavhaze bridge refers to that and how she just no longer really engages in media coverage of herself or social media gossip about herself. the prologue just recounts how pre-1989, particularly post-red, she discovered the darker sides of that gossip she doesn't like. her feelings about that gossip still remain true i'm sure, but you're discounting what immediately follows that section in the prologue, which says "But none of that mattered then because I had a plan and I had a demeanor as trusting as a basket of golden retriever puppies. I had the keys to my own apartment in New York and I had new melodies bursting from my imagination. I had Max Martin and Shellback who were happy to help me explore this new sonic landscape I was enamored with. I had a new friend named Jack Antonoff who had made some cool tracks in his apartment. I had the idea that the album would be called 1989 and we would reference big 80s synths and write sky high choruses. I had sublime, inexplicable faith and I ran right toward it, in high heels and a crop top." Which, if that's not clear to anyone out there, is her saying she learned through making 1989 to ignore the gossip and that all that mattered was her music and pursuing new sounds and creative experiences. she basically is saying "yeah it sucked to be called a serial dater, but 1989 helped me learn to refocus energy away from trying to control it and towards my creative output and creative relationships." which is something she has done several times when faced with struggles with the public, and will do again post 1989 into reputation.

that's a lesson everyone must learn in life at some point. you can't control what people say or what they think about you. but also it's not a crime to gossip, nor do most people who gossip mean any harm. people on this website even haven't ceased to gossip about her and speculate about things as intimate as her and joe's sex life while they were dating, pregnancy and abortions she may or may not have had, etc etc. even currently the fanfiction swirling around her and football man is incessant (some of it literal, blatant fanfiction being published shamelessly as books which makes me so embarrassed for them). it's just something people do to pass the time because life can be monotonous and dreadful, and i don't think it makes anyone a bad person for doing it. she's a public figure, and insists on being one and seems to enjoy many aspects of it, so it's just part of the territory she has reconciled with. people will project things onto her that they want to see mainly because they seek to recognize themselves in others in search of validation, but also every now and then because they want a villain to hate. most gossip will be benign ultimately, especially if it's not true, and some will be painful, especially if it is true, but like taylor does these days, if you don't like it, just ignore it.

#i'm one of those taylor doesn't run her social media truthers so #i think she's just fully logged off hence the get it off my desk line which i was like okay yeah #she's one of many celebs who has her publicity team filter and inform her what they feel is necessary for her to comment on i'd say #which is a very common practice with extremely famous and busy public figures #especially after the nicki minaj fiasco from 2015 #you cant have her just on social media like a reply guy aldkfjsdlkfjdfj it blew up in her face already! let tree screen it first

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llycaons · 8 months

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lot of fun opinions on that homophobic shonen protags poll

the debates over yusuke rage. he was openly transphobic on screen, but is also friends with kurama so..hm.

#but I can't believe yusuke has votes when he canonically kissed his bestie#he's a transphobe not a homophobe

obviously there's overlap but! much to consider. he's also someone who grows up a lot during the series and is notably more chill as an older teenager. he definitely said slurs as a 14 yr old tho

ichigo is barely developed but his series is full of stereotypes of gay men as overly concerned with appearance, evilly effeminate, and sexually predatory. 'he has gay friends' says one tag but um citation FUCKING needed! wait shit

#ichigo doesn't understand but he's got the spirit you know? like he thought uryu was gay and tried to be supportive

oh fuck this might have actually happened. okay maybe ichigo isn't the worst but I'm leaving up my earlier thought bc im not a coward

#ive never seen bleach but that guy looks like he'd be an iphone user

ichigo actually predates iphones! but this is not relevant to the discussion

also the tags calling edward a smug atheist bastard vs. his 'love is love' edit lmao

#who the heck slandering Edward Tho!? This boy ain’t give a crap about homo he got better things to worry about. you go little atheist boy.#He the bane of the military existence for a reason that he works for that only keep him around because he good at alchemy. KNOW THE SERIES.

first of all the way this is written is insane. second of all what does being homophobic have to do with being the bane of the military?!

WAIT THERE'S MORE

#who the fuck is calling edward elric homophobic???? yeah he's an annoying atheist but he's so so antifa

PLEASE HE WORKS FOR THE MILITARY

The amount of people saying "edward isnt homophobic" is so funny. The "love is love i see no difference) meme is not the actual edward elric hes a libertarian military brat. Get a grip #''hes so antifa'' you gotta be smoking dick

LIBERTARIAN EDWARD ELRIC

I see why people call yusuke and naruto bi or gay but edward I never really saw it...his friendship with ling seems very hetero to me. fma always came off as a a very cishet series (lest we forget arawaka's 'men are muscular and women are va-voom' doodle + the heteronormative nuclear family ending). and deku and ichigo too I think they're just straight kids

#also izukus homophobia comes from his bully being a fruity bastard

scream?

'most of these protagonists would never be homophobic' I think you've wildly overestimated the average early 2000s 15 year old shonen boy ngl

#kirito vouldnt care less about anything but his friends/harem#he dropped fighting to live out his little nuclear family fantasy#being homophobic isnt on his radar

wow I wonder if having a nuclear family fantasy would predispose you to certain regressive ideas about gender roles and sexual orientation. it's not like most people consciously make an effort to Be Homophobic it just arises from a set of assumptions and stereotypes you're exposed to in a homophobic society....I feel like the person who wrote this may be stupid. this guy is sweeping the poll currently and at least half of the tags that mention him fucking hate him so it sounds like he's a piece of shit. some people are defending him saying he's bi tho. tbh I didn't even think people liked sword art online, famous harem incel incest fantasy about a chronically online gamer boy, in the year of your lord 2024 anymore

back and forths about deku. as a more recent shonen protag he seems less hateful to me but he also seems very het and the author is nasty so. hm

#wtf voted Luffy? he would never. he's literally a pirate

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE PIRATES CAN'T BE HOMOPHOBIC. like I agree but also what an argument, it's kind of nice to see luffy so low since I liked his vibes in the live action but WHO IS VOTING GON??!!!!! you're saying gon is more homophobic that YUSUKE??!!! I don't think gon even knows what homophobia IS and if he did he'd think it was messed up! not a single tag here is disagreeing so maybe they were mistaken votes

goku struck me as foolish yet well-meaning which is what everyone is agreeing.

#also. Goku is aroace spectrum in my hearth. just throwing that out there

god I wish I lived in a world where that meant he wasn't homophobic.

naruto seems to be a mixed bag bc he almost definitely is gay (even tho some ppl in the tags are like umm it's only POSSIBLE) but nobody can agree if he ever stopped being internalized homophobic about it or if he's a more 'confused but he's got the spirit' kind of deal

yuji ranks very low, which also makes sense bc jjk is a newer series and most shonen in the mid-00s had a lot more homophobia in general than they do now. he seems like a decent kid, tho I never finished s1. the pink hair makes him seem chiller than most

kagome is getting mixed reviews but mostly landing on the not homophobic side. having seen nothing of inuyasha I cannot comment. some tags saying she's a fujoshi some saying shes bi some say both

lots of people saying lucy fairy tale so I'm obligated to mention her but idk shit about that show except it looked kinda misogynistic so if she WAS homophobic I'll give her a pass/s

#kirito is the only answer here because everyone else is gay

im sorry but edward and ichigo are like some of the straightest guys in shonen like please

and FINALLY arguments about whether death note should be included, since it was run in shonen jump. it's not a purely action/fantasy series, so that's probably why it was left out, but it WAS targeted towards teenage boys so I guess it would technically count. anyway everyone is saying light would win by a landslide if he was listed

thanks for coming to my breakdown I will probably revisit this in a week when the poll ends

#cor.txt

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colethewolf · 4 years

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"Listen, I don’t really care about Supernatural. I dropped off that show so many years ago. Where the characters and stories went on from where I stepped off really doesn’t matter to me whatsoever. Okay?" Me neither. You're the one believing he's homophobic because some SPN fans whine about it. You think I'm a homophobic too? No, fyi, I'm gay myself and I love shipping and gay characters on TV and positive representation of us. What I don't like is people forcing a ship into existence, getting what they want and then whine when it's not exactly what they wanted. What did they expect from CW? There are even het couples in other movies/shows where the actors have been friends for years and suddenly or years later the ship becomes canon and they don't want to kiss but have to, because it's a friend/chosen family and makes them uncomfortable. That is normal. People have a right to feel that way and the fandom knew that Jensen didn't like himself being shipped with men(either with Sam or Castiel, that translated into Jared and Misha too for some). That doesn't make him homophobic. After 15 years hearing he's supposedly gay as a character or even in real life and his family is just a beard, I'm not surprised he's annoyed when fans ask him at cons. Destiel should've stayed fanon, that way they wouldn't've f'ed it up. Maybe, there's a happy ending, but I doubt it. What I don't believe is Jensen being a homophobe because Dean didn't react right. Such bullshit.

No. This is the problem that we have. Destiel was not “forced” into existence. It was baited by the writers via. subtext. I cannot stand when people say slashships just randomly pop out of thin air. For the most part, they don’t. For the most part, queer people pick up on the chemistry, subtext, and tropes between characters and thus a ship is born.

Secondly, don’t fault fans for being upset when a show goes down the “bury your gays” route. It happens far too frequently and fans reserve the right to complain about that happening with characters that they love. The gay fans of television deserve to be treated with respect, perhaps even moreso to heterosexual fans, because it’s always the gay fans that get abused, harrassed, and manipulated by television shows, networks, and writers.

Thirdly, Jensen and Misha are actors. They get paid millions of dollars per episode to play a fictional character, so I don’t give a fuck whether or not they’re best friends & would feel uncomfortable if their characters wind up getting touchy-feely. They are not paid to play themselves. They are paid to play a character and if they’re not up to the task of setting aside their own personal feelings in order to play a role, then they should not be actors. Period.

Lastly, I agree somewhat about the “real life shipping”. I can see how that could be uncomfortable, but that by itself has nothing to do with the fictional characters they play. Additionally, I’ve seen gifs of them from cons where they purposely flirt with one another to get a reaction from the crowd of fans. So no, I don’t particularly care if it made either of them uncomfortable after the fact, when they themselves are the ones encouraging it.

#Anonymous

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toraonice · 7 years

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I don't think you're homophobic, a bad person, or any of that and am sorry you're getting outright hate BUT I think you're missing a lot of the point. I am not going to presume that you aren't LGBT, but I am unsure if you understand how LGBT people are irritated at how het pairings as "overt" as v*****ri are typically accepted as they are (/cont)

(cont) yet so many gay pairings portrayed in the same vein are “ambiguous” or argue that it isn’t canon. The “they’re DEEPER than romantic love” is also hurtful as people aren’t discriminated against for friendships and erases what makes them so special to LGBT fans.

(cont 3/3) Essentially, I think although you have good intentions in trying to be objective, with what I said in mind when you add separate commentary such as pointing out that soulmates can be platonic or the late night drama thing it does deeply hurt people, because it sounds like you’re trying to downplay them—intentionally or otherwise

Hello! First of all, thank you for making a concrete example and articulating your point logically!

I’m taking this occasion to write a long reply that encompasses my view of Victor and Yuuri’s relationship also with regard to heterocentricity. It’s long, but hopefully it’s exhaustive…

I think some people may be a bit wary about this topic and interpret my words in a negative way. For example, by saying that their bond is “deeper than romantic love” I am not trying to say that romantic love is a bad thing or that they cannot be or become lovers. I actually see it as something positive, not negative. There are people who know each other, start dating, have a passionate love story and then break up within a year. I believe that, since the bond between Victor and Yuuri is not limited to romantic love (which can be included) but also includes respect, friendship and other feelings, this makes their relationship deeper than two people only bound by romantic feelings.

Also, when I said that soulmates can be platonic and that the Japanese Monday dramas are not necessarily centered on love stories, I was trying to be fair to all interpretations. I don’t mean “so this proves that Victor and Yuuri cannot be in a romantic relationship”; it just isn’t something that proves either theory.

Regarding Japanese dramas.. Not sure how many people are familiar with it, but in the 2nd Tiger & Bunny movie there is a scene with the 2 protagonists on the roof of a building that is commonly referred to by fans as “gekku” (the same kind of drama as the scene of Victor and Yuuri at the airport). Usually this kind of scenes, in the TV dramas, feature a man and a woman, but when “gekku” is used to describe something unrelated to dramas, like scenes from an anime, it often includes a slightly humorous nuance, very similar to when two people are fighting and someone tells them “you look like a married couple”. (The scene itself is usually serious and when fans use “gekku” they don’t mean to make fun of it, but at the same time they don’t seriously mean to imply that the characters are romantically involved)

I agree on the fact that if Victor and Yuuri had been a man and a woman everyone and their dog would think that they’re in love with each other, while part of the reason some people are skeptical about it is that they are both men. I myself don’t really it like when, especially in series where the sexuality of characters is not clear, two characters of opposite sexes are seen as more likely to fall in love with each other than characters of the same sex. This happens because some people think that unless a character is declared as homosexual they must be heterosexual because “that is the standard” (these people in many cases are not even trying to be homophobic, they just do not realize that what they are implying is heterocentric). I don’t think that there is a standard, and of course there are many more possibilities than just “heterosexual” and “homosexual”, therefore if a character’s sexuality is unconfirmed I am usually open to any possibility.

I will stray a little from YOI. I was an enthusiastic X-Files fan at the time the series was still airing and the protagonists weren’t officially lovers yet (yeah it’s a long time ago but I might not be as old as this makes you think lol). I was also a member of the official forum and identified myself as “intellishipper”, fans who shipped the protagonists but didn’t necessarily want them to become romantically involved in the series unless it was relevant to the story (normal “shippers” just wanted them to get together). This is because I liked X-Files for what it was — a sci-fi thriller drama — and I didn’t want it to suddenly become a love story or focus too much on the romantic relationship of the characters. In fact, to this day I still don’t really like how their romantic relationship was handled in the series… (even though I’m a shipper!) X-Files taught me that sometimes, even if the characters you ship officially get together, depending on how it’s portrayed it might be disappointing, and in that case maybe it’s better that everything is left vague and that you keep on fantasizing on your own… (Sorry if someone disagrees about the protagonists’ relationship in X-Files, this is just my opinion)

The reason of this digression is to explain that the way I view Victor and Yuuri’s relationship and its portrayal within the series is very similar to my experience with X-Files. I personally like them together, but since the series is fundamentally a sport anime about figure skating, to me it’s fine if they don’t confirm whether they are romantically involved or not, because either way there are enough hints to be perfectly able to perceive them as in love with each other even if it’s not stated out loud. At the same time, I respect people who want them to officially get together and people who prefer to see their relationship as platonic too, because in the end everything is open to interpretations and therefore I don’t think it’s correct to force one interpretation on others.

I understand that people who see this anime as important for the LGBT+ community would prefer that they are confirmed as lovers because we would have a “regular” (non-BL) anime featuring an official homosexual couple with a strong, healthy relationship, which would be a step forward in the portrayal of LGBT characters in Japanese anime too. However, exactly because it’s a Japanese anime, as I tried to explain in a previous post a few months ago, the local cultural background is an obstacle to that, therefore I wouldn’t be surprised if even in future works they never confirm anything. Also, what Yamamoto said about “relationships without a name” too makes me think that maybe she doesn’t find it important to give a name to their relationship but she just wants to portray a very strong bond between two characters which viewers can interpret how they prefer. Kubo too made a few tweets last August that suggest how one of the reasons they didn’t use a man and a woman is that they did not want people to automatically interpret their relationship as romantic “just because they’re a man and a woman”. If you read that negatively you might think “does she mean that if they are both guys they cannot be seen as romantically involved?”. I don’t know what she meant in detail of course, because I’m not inside her mind, but I also think it can be interpreted in a positive way: if the characters are a man and a woman people will see them as automatically in love only because of their genders, regardless of the deepness of their relationship; however, if they are guys the average viewer cannot apply their heterocentric point of view to them and they will only see them as in love because their relationship really suggests that.

By the way, I still think that YOI, even without confirming anything, is an important step forward for the portrayal of LGBT+ characters in Japanese anime because it shows two male characters having an intimate relationship (however you want to interpret it) without their surroundings going “eww gross” or making jokes about them. In the series, no one says anything or questions Yuuri’s sexuality when he decides to interpret the role of a woman in his early version of Eros, no one ever makes fun of Yuuri and Victor’s relationship, no one looks grossed out when they see them with wedding rings (Phichit even congratulates them for their “wedding”). As Kubo said, within the world of YOI no one is discriminated for what (or who) they like. Everything is just portrayed as normal. In a way, the fact that any possibility is viewed as normal might also be the reason why they don’t feel the need to declare anyone’s sexuality or whether they are romantically involved or not, also because in the end whether Yuuri and Victor are engaged or not, or are having sex or not, is not really relevant to their performance as figure skaters. The aspects of their relationship that are relevant to the story are what has already been shown to us.

To sum it up… I understand the various points of views, including the fact that a part of the fans would prefer to see Victor and Yuuri in a confirmed romantic relationship (be it because of their personal liking or because they would like more outspoken LGBT+ representation), but as long as the creators don’t confirm anything I will stay open to any possibility. I’m sorry if some of the things I said were taken the wrong way and I hope that what I wrote above was enough to explain that they weren’t meant as something offensive or negative but were just my attempt to be unbiased toward any possible interpretation. I myself am generally annoyed by the heterocentric view of the world (which in Japan is oh so popular..) and to me whether a pairing is het or homo makes no difference, therefore in my mind Victor and Yuuri in their current stage are very much like Mulder and Scully when their romantic relationship wasn’t confirmed in the series: no matter how you look at them they must be in love with each other, but it’s not confirmed, therefore fans who think their relationship is platonic have the right to think so (in the X-Files fandom too there were fans who didn’t ship them or were indifferent, but this didn’t stop the creators from making them a couple later on).

As a translator, I’m striving to be unbiased toward any interpretation and therefore to translate official material so that the original meaning/nuance is preserved and in English it doesn’t end up sounding more/less suggestive than it was in Japanese. Since they are very different languages, sometimes it’s hard to keep the exact same nuances as the original text, and of course if you ask 10 people to translate a line they will translate it in 10 different ways, but I’m trying to be careful especially with parts that might be easily misread (I mean, it’s useless that I translate something as sounding shippy when the original doesn’t… If the original does, of course I would keep that nuance).

In any case, if anyone ever thinks that one of my translations doesn’t sound right or that something I said sounds homophobic or hurtful, please let me know and I will explain more in detail what I meant. I always try to write my opinion without being offensive to anyone, but sometimes it’s impossible to write something so that all the people who read it will interpret it the exact same way, especially when talking about topics where readers have contrastive views. I respect all opinions (people who like Victuuri, people who dislike Victuuri, people who are indifferent, etc) and I just wish for everyone to live in peace without attacking each other.

Final notes:

1) Sorry for mentioning series unrelated to YOI, but since X-Files contains a het pairing I thought it would make a good comparison to show that my view of YOI isn’t influenced by the fact that Victor and Yuuri are both guys.

2) I was trying to be very neutral when I wrote my short review of the original drama at the YOI event, but to be honest some parts sounded just like a BL drama and it would take a genius to manage to “no homo” all of that… Of course the scriptwriter made it so that if you want to see their relationship as platonic you can still justify everything with “they were drunk”, but yeah…

3) Adding sources: 1) “What Yamamoto said” comes from the May Febri interview which I’m currently translating; 2) Kubo’s tweets from last August are something that wasn’t explicitly related to YOI but were definitely referring to YOI; 3) What Kubo said about no one being discriminated in YOI’s world is also a tweet from the end of last year, I made a post about it too.

#victor nikiforov #yuuri katsuki #essay #long post is long #my opinion

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