#another victim of trying to write perfect paragon mentor figures without acknowledging that there is no such thing irl

[a-dauntless-daffodil]

@lulubellule-kfp your oogway sucks tai lung and kai are flawed/hurt not pure evil rant has changed me spiritually, and honestly, I can’t even give Oogway credit for ‘intervening’ with Tigress.

Oogway is presented as the Wisest and Kindest and Best.

(btw this is very biased and emotional and hammered out in ten minutes and i do love the movies tbh some stories are surface level deep and that's cool)

Oogway is maybe better understood as Thinks He's Wise, Charming Rather Than Kind, and Flawed Like Everyone Else But He's Also The Most Powerful So He Gets To Decide What's Right And Wrong.

his biggest flaw (to me) is in imposing his own idea of the world on everyone else, no matter what the cost, and never self reflecting on how it might be serving him- Even as it hurts and destroys so many others

(grain of salt- we the audience are limited in what we 'know' by what we've been shown so far) (kai and tai lung did do bad things, they did choose to hurt people... and so did oogway. and not having that acknowledge is frustrating. not bad or wrong but, frustrating)

When does Oogway finally do something to help Tigress? Why, after one of Po’s randomly spilled menus happened to flutter into his hand.

Oogway, being dead set on his own philosophy of /there are no accidents/ he orders takeout and chuckles when it gives Shifu food poisoning. The valley is in danger from a rampaging violet dude who’s destroying everything and everyone one in his path but hee hee destiny.

Tigress puts HERSELF forward, willing to fight Boar in her master’s place- and Shifu cuts her off. If she can’t fight like him, then she can’t be ready to fight at all, apparently. So Shifu decides to send a scroll asking for help fighting Boar, and Oogway, deciding that it also wasn’t an accident that Tigress asked to fight Boar, tells Shifu to send Tigress with the scroll instead. Shifu agrees “DO NOT FAIL ME” and Tigress does her thing collecting the Cleaner, Comedian, and Dancer.

(Sidenote: The difference between Tigress instantly seeing how amazing each of them are even though none of them use moves like hers, verses Shifu refusing to accept that there is any other way of being good than HIS way until he literally sees it happening is hmmm yes well, good job mentoring him Oogway, that’s a perfectly healthy mentality to be clinging to, how the heck did Tigress end up more emotionally balanced than the guy raising her) (im gonna give credit to the people running Bao Gu orphanage or actually maybe just the fact that Tigress spent part of her childhood around so many people not like her but who learned to accept her as a friend)

When Shifu gets pissed at Tigress for ‘failing him’ (even while he fails to listen when she tries to tell him how amazing these four people are actually, Shifu would rather die than be wrong. Healthy!), Oogway does go talk to Tigress…… to fire her up for fighting Boar. Alone.

Which is, apparently according to him, the Thing The Universe Wants To Have Happen, and that’s why he’s going along with it. Because he sure as heck didn’t sTOP Shifu from raising Tigress under yet another painful crushing weight of expectation, like he already did with Tai Lung. Nooo, it took a random flyer flying into Oogway’s claws before he was like you know what, maybe Tigress completely giving up her sense of personal identity in a desperate bid to win the love of her father figure is wrong actually. Wow who'd have thought!

Or does he even care about that. Does he only care now because ‘the universe’ seems to be saying so? TIGRESS LOOKS BASICALLY GROWN UP IN THE SHORT HOW LONG HAS OOGWAY WATCHED SHIFU MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE WITH HER THAN HE DID TAI LUNG AND DONE NOTHING? TO HELP?

Oh yeah and then, when Tigress gets the tar beaten out of her by Boar because she’s still trying to use the forms Shifu insisted she should be using (even as it is literally getting HER killed), Oogway not only doesn’t do anything to help her, he makes Shifu stand there and watch as he almost loses ANOTHER student, ANOTHER (almost) ADPOTED CHILD.

And? AND???? Oogway could have healed Shifu whenever he wanted? Just like he could have TALKED TO TIGRESS whenever he wanted! For fucks sake if he’s so in tune with the universe and so wise, why didn’t he just wander around the nearby villages and FIND the other Five himself? TIGRESS FOUND VIPER AND MONKEY WITOUT ANY DIRECTIONS OTHER THAN AN OCCUPATION TITLE! THEY WERE RIGHT THERE!!! MONEKY’S BACKSTORY SAYS HE AND OOGWAY EVEN MET BEFORE!

'oogway knew shifu and trigress needed to go through all this in order to grow as people'

PAIN ISN'T THE ONLY WAY FOR PEOPLE TO GROW. SOMETIMES PAIN BREAKS PEOPLE! SOMETIMS CHALLENGES AREN'T WORTH THE SUFFERING IT TAKES TO SURVIVE THEM!

and SOMETIMES IT LEAVES PEOPLE WEAKER THAN BEFORE- SEE, SHIFU BEING UNABLE TO OPEN UP FULLY WITH TIGRESS AS A FATHER THE WAY HE DID WITH TAI LUNG, BECAUSE-- OH WOW, THAT ENDED BADLY AND SEEING THE SIMILARITIES BETWEEN TAI LUNG AND TIGRESS HURTS AND SCARED SHIFU!!!!

it's almost as if all three of them could have used the guidance and support of a wise and kindly older friend.... instead of series of tests and trials to 'help them' become whatever they were 'meant to be'

Oh but oogway was saved by pandas and now theres a panda orphan being raised in the village nearby (am i really supposed to believe oogway wouldn't notice PANDA right next door to him) and if a flyer from his dad’s noodle shop leads to shifu getting food poisoning then everything must be part of the grand plan to someday make a panda oogway’s ‘true heir’ or whatever.

Hm? What’s that? Po’s only an orphan because a warlord killed his mom and destroyed his home? And all that happened ALSO because of a dumb prophecy and an obsession with destiny?

Oh wow that also must be the universe talking and totally not be a thing oogway maybe could have helped with or something.     

(i don't think oogway was trying to hurt people or be selfish. but intentions are only useful in so far as they might make you change course once you see the damage you are un-intentionally causing, and ooogway... seems to have failed that spot check. which, you know, fair, most of us do. he just happens to be causing a lot more damage than a normal person would be capable of)

Oogway's pacifism is both extreme and twisted.

He won't 'fix' mistakes or accidents because he believes it's all part of some future destiny... but inaction is also an action with consequences, and who is he to decide the destiny of others by even deciding they have one?

Well. He's the most powerful guy around. It's not like there's anyone around to challenge him or prove him wrong.

....Po, sweetie, now that you're enlightened an all, could you go to the spirit realm and kick oogway's butt a little? for me? thanks dude love u

On the other hand, Po and Tigress being the anti-Oogway and Shifu respectively gives me life.

like yes! always try to be better, always try to help! be accepting of others differences and pain and traumas and do everything you can think of to be there for them when they need it! Admit when you fail! Admit when you mess up! Make friends and reach out- Ask for help when you need it too!

You don't have to be perfect to be a friend!

It's better to know and accept that you won't ever be perfect, actually, and still decide that you are worthwhile. And that so is everyone else.

TLDR: oogway's ability to find inner peace and ascend off to retirement even while everything around him is going to heck is a very inward-facing thing, which says a lot about him. I think maybe he needs to re-do his spiritual enlightenment, i think he missed a spot. But if his only goal is to break away from earthy attachments and pain and people in general, well, gold star for that. He succeeded. I sure as hell wouldn't want to.

funny thing is, i only ended up watching kfp because my depressed nephew is into taoism and wanted someone to talk about the movies with. thats not destiny tho, oogway, that's just being a friend