#anti zionism doesnt equal antisemitism

[sereniv]

@moonquakelake ill reply tomorrow but i definitely mean why do people hate jews so much, when did it start how did it spread. As in "how can people be like this/feel like this". im feeling emotional, it makes me sad and angery to think about. because i realized that i knew (and have seen) antisemitism exist, but why. i guess a broader question is how does that kind of thing happen. but ive gotten a few answers that answer my question now. i also want to be clear i never thought it was jewish peoples fault. just in case someone thinks im saying that

and i guess i should have been more clear but its not that i dont trust what jewish zionists say on being jewish. There are some zionists who answered the question and i knew they would, because im asking jewish people and i know jewish people know what they experience.

i have known about zionism for 20 years now, and on and off through the years have heard what zionists believe. not just non jewish zionists, but also jewish zionists. either straight from zionists as in i actually read what zionists believe right from their mouth, and i listen to anti zionist jews including those who were in the holocaust, israeli and not. i do listen to all sides even now, to ensure that yeah, the definition is the same, and i dont agree with the definition as it has been relayed to me. i agree with jewish safety, but i think the homeland is also palestinian homeland. i think it should be equal (to put it extremely simply).

and when ive actually listened, it always comes down to palestinians getting the short end of the stick. and this is also based off of a lot of things but some of the stuff sent to me by jewish zionists and jewish anti zionists alike, i already knew.

the reason i said no zionists, i was talking about any, jewish or not- because i dont want to interact with people that i have not once seen say that their ideology includes actual true coexistance. some say a 2 state solution, which has its issues. some like to focus on whats happening by focusing only on hamas. Where its obvious their care of palestinians is mostly just hate for hamas.

ill read what you wrote i just do not have the energy rn, but i want it to also be clear to everyone that i dont doubt anything a jewish zionist says about their experience as a jewish person, and i DO accept what theyve heard what their families and what not. I take in info, i look it up, cross reference, compare it to other people from opposing sides (anti zionists) compared to what i know about the genocide

But from experience, any time i ask what zionism is, it never ends in coexistance on the same land. neither now nor when talking about 1948 nakba. its always Jewish people deserve a homeland to be safe- and the details on how one gets that isnt important. but when pressed, its all hamas's fault.

So again, i didnt want to interact with zionists as a whole because i dont feel comfortable with the vast majority of what zionists stand for. Not the part about a jewish homeland, not about jewish people being safe, not about jewish people of any type being free to be jewish. im talking about what happens to Palestinians and what is happening and what has happened for years

I hear people say i dont know what zionism is but i am just going off of what zionists say and anti zionist israeli jews especially. i dont understand what they have to gain. They are iseaeli, they are jewish, and they go against the grain so much they are shunned. why would they do that?

im also going off what im seeing. jewish homeland doesnt mean kicking people who were already living on that land out. and that is what happened. and its not the jews who did it, it is israel. it is zionism. Judaism and Jewish people do not equal zionism. And this is just a fact seeing as there are non jewish zionists and there are anti zionist jews. of all kinds.

every place should be safe for jews. every place should be safe for palestinians.

this wasnt even supposed to be about palestine or zionism. this was supposed to be about hate against jewish people and conspiracies against jewish people from jewish people that i feel morals and views align with mine. that is why i said no zionists. its like saying no terfs when asking a question about women. It doesnt mean that i cant get valuable answers from a terf from their experience as a woman- i just dont want to interact with those type of people.

and i base that not on confirmation bias, but just what i have learned.

I am listening to jewish zionists on their experience and understanding of being jewish. seems they didnt listen but im not suprised. not bc zionism but bc thats the internet. and id listen to their definitions of zionism but all im getting is the same stuff i already know. except vague and no details on palestine.

im not going to respond to people who only want to talk about that but there are some who did just answer the question. idk if i should just delete the post. idk

[soulfairre-slamamancer]

If you are a Zionist, i do not like you!!

Zionism has brought about the modern "state" of israel, a european controlled war colony.

The israeli occupation is a colonizing force meant to stake claim to land and give control to european countries.

Jews do not need a country for our people, what we need is to be seen and treated as equal.

Jews are indigenous to the land of Palestine, and while what you think of when you hear Palestinian may not be all the same as Jews, they are an arabized population, largely assimilated into a culture from the Arabian peninsula-they are our sister people.

They may not be as born from the land as we were, but they belong to it too.

Zionism is the belief that the jewish diaspora can only be safe through the occupation of the homeland.

Jews can be safe, but only once our sistering people are safe too.

As an american jew, i had to stop going to temple as a kid because my mom was so worried due to bomb threats, shooting threats, stabbing threats, so on and so forth. The cementation of the state of israel would not fix this.

The existence of the state of israel implies that we are something else. that we are something different meant to be kept separate.

What we need is an end to the war. What we need is peace back in our homelands, to be able to live there with our sister people, or even just visit, in safety.

Our lands are not safe, not while the modern israel is as it is now.

Just because jews have a right to our homeland doesnt mean Palestinian claims to indigenity are null, it doesn't mean that the Palestinian people do not belong. They have lived there for hundreds of years alongside us, they do not need to be pushed out so that we may have peace.

Israel is killing more of its own people than Hamas is.

Israel is killing hundreds more palestinians than palestinians are killing israelis.

Hamas is a terrorist group.

So is the current Israeli government.

Both are committing atrocities. BOTH NEED TO BE STOPPED.

If Israel dropped their guns today, Hamas would keep attacking until international forces stopped them, and they could let palestinians return to what's left of their homes.

If Hamas dropped their guns today, Israel would continue their slaughter of innocent palestinians, and jews would still not be safe.

Both the Israeli government and Hamas are horrible and are run by horrible people, both are in the wrong.

Nobody wins in war, but Israel is the greatest of the two evils in this.

The line between them is not very thick, but the Israeli government can afford much more dangerous weapons in much greater quantities than Hamas currently can.

A lot of anti-zionists take it too far and speak with antisemitism, but the state of Israel needs to be put to an end, and either disbanded or restructured.

Israel is not just killing Palestinians.

Thats why I'm against the modern state of Israel.

It is not just killing the group it demonized, not just the "them" they have singled out and attempted to make the world's enemy, but its own people.

Israel is killing its own people at nearly the same rate it is killing Palestinians.

That's why i want to free Palestine.

Because to free palestine, the war must be stopped.

For the war to stop, both the Israeli government and Hamas must be handled.

The Zionist/Anti-Zionist and the Pro-Palestine/Anti-Palestine makes it seem so cut and dry.

It is messy and crumbling, if you were to grab it, it would fall from between your fingers like bloody sand.

It is cold and melting, frigid and unstable.

It is hot and wilting, it burns and is crushed in your hand.

It has never been as simple as good vs bad.

No one party is in the right and no one party is in the wrong.

Both sides are groups of innocent people drowned in a messy blanket of the monsters they are lead by.

It takes nuance, understanding, you must always be willing. Read as much as you can from all sides.

It had been simplified beyond sense;

To say you support Israel, you are supporting the slaughter.

To say you support Palestine, you want to free the people and stop the bloodshed.

If you want to support Israel because the people are dying, you cannot support Israel itself.

If you want the want to support Palestine, you have to denounce Hamas.

If you are a human being, you should want to stop Israel's military action. Once it's stopped, almost all damage being done to both Palestinians and Israelis will cease, and once Hamas is dealt with, then is a possibility for peace, for an end to the bloodshed.

If you think it is as simple as "this side all wrong/this side completely right" you are too comfortable. In your privilege and greed you have become blind.

Listen to the people in need. Those in refugee camps do not beg for vengeance, they beg for peace.