#bring back giving the most random characters solo books that last more than 70 issues long

[myriam-draws]

everyone read impulse 1995 for The Guy

[davidmann95]

Comics this week (3/10/2021)?

cheerfullynihilistic said: Comics this week (03/10/21)??

adudewholikescomicsandotherstuff said: This week’s comics?

Anonymous said: Comics?

Anonymous said: 3/10 NCBD?

Non-Stop Spider-Man #1: The lead story was fun, the backup was dopey, I’ll give it another issue or two to see where it goes.

The Immortal Hulk #44: While it was too late for this week I’ve taken Hulk off my pull list, so the store won’t order any copies specifically for me and therefore my future purchase of the book won’t support Joe Bennett’s presence, just the store. This issue is typical of some of the books’ weaker installments of the last year or so - feels like well-done regular superhero comics instead of Immortal Hulk - but those last couple pages bring it back around.

Daredevil #28: Holy cow, those King In Black issues actually mattered. God this book is still so fuckin’ good in so many ways, everything every dumbass street-level superhero ‘deconstruction’ wants to be when it grows up.

Children of the Atom #1: Sucks real bad! This weird combo of ‘hip new young Marvel heroes!’ trappings and soulless X-Men lifer comics execution that feels certain to appeal to neither group.

Eternals #3: Of the listed Deviants I imagine I’d relate most to Annoyed Veug.

Commanders in Crisis #6: While I remain without the ability to weigh in on this objectively, this is the issue that to date most feels like it lives up to the promises of the series premiere.

The Wrong Earth: Night & Day #3: Little disappointed personally with the reveal of what the third world is - I assumed it was going to be more of a straight take ‘modern’ version to the other two’s flavors of throwbacks - but this series still rules. And that ending.

Home Sick Pilots #4: Okay, I think I can follow what’s happening at this point, still enjoying it.

Proctor Valley Road #1: I review these books in the order I present them to my dad since he likes DC/Marvel/Other to each be lumped together, but make no mistake: this is the last of the three Morrison books to read this week, because this is what comes next for them. A return to their roots - 70s kids way into music and dealing with the weird, girls adventure stories of the kind they apparently grew up reading - this feels like a refinement of their mid/late-00s Vertigo work in the same way they’ve been iterating on their superhero material for decades. The horror is sold excellently, whether by their own efforts or thanks to cowriter Alex Child this is their most fluid, ‘real’-sounding dialogue perhaps ever, and Franquiz with Bonvillain are instantly among their all-time best collaborators, perfectly capturing the shifting tone and character acting necessary to best put Morrison’s big ideas over in a way a number of their collaborators haven’t lived up to over the years (and speaking of the visuals, Jim Campbell does the lord’s work with that lettering trick near the end). Ritesh Babu and Sean Dillon have a lot more to say about the book and how it already acts as a darker, more honest take on your Stranger Things and the like as a commentary on its times, but I’m already loving to see this particular return down to Earth for Morrison and company and I’m glad to hear this is selling really well compared to their previous indie work.

Dead Dog’s Bite #1: This actually came out last week, but Ritesh recommended it so I figured it might be worth a look. A so far intensely low-key missing persons mystery with a touch of surreality around its edges, this already looks to be the best “look! A nine-panel grid! Fancy!” comic since Mister Miracle, really lived-in and emotional for as little happens in this debut. Very curious where it’s going.

Rorschach #6: I continue to like it.

Batman: Urban Legends #1: Glory be, a good Jason Todd comic - at last, you noble stubborn weirdoes living off of like six nonconsecutive panels all these years, you may lay down your burden. Not all you’d necessarily hope from Zdarsky tackling Gotham after what he’s been doing with Daredevil but rock-solid work regardless; the Harley story is fine, Outsiders is a letdown after Thomas’s shockingly good showing for them in Future State but it’s still fine, and the Grifter stuff is fun.

The Joker #1: I thought the advertised ‘a Joker story from Gordon’s POV’ angle was an interesting one even if I was concerned this book would in practice be pure editorial mandate, but in reality? Tynion has managed to pull the wool over DC’s eyes and do a full-on Jim Gordon book (one predicated with him being off the force to make it reasonably comfortable read in 2021) with Joker as the barest of pretexts to get it out the door and selling for as long as he wants to continue it. He even said in interviews that when the book was first pitched to him that his response was that a Joker solo book was a dumb unworkable idea until he had an idea for a ‘different way to approach it’, he knows exactly what he’s doing and I salute him. And it’s a darn good Gordon book even if the Punchline backup is predictably tepid, I’m in the tank for Gotham’s perpetual whipping boy dealing with weird noir international crime with Joker sort of hanging around in the background menacingly to justify the nominal premise.

Anonymous said: Hey, so I figure one random anon won’t change your mind, but like you I was disappointed by New Frontier’s immortal Wonder Woman, but I still got the new issue of Wonder Woman cause Wonder Woman at Valhalla still sounds great and I actually liked it! I think I’m gonna get at least the next issue, so there’s at least one recommendation for it

Wonder Woman #770: This combined with the store still putting it in my pile prompted me to give it a try after all, and whether because something here clicks better or if they’re simply not trying so hard without the pressure of doing a ‘final’ story for Diana, Cloonan and Conrad do in fact do substantially better on the main book than they did with Immortal Wonder Woman. Some fun, some fights, some mythology and intrigue, gorgeous landscapes and generous servings of beefcake from Travis Moore - this isn’t going to be sweeping the Eisners, but this is as enjoyable as a Wonder Woman comic has been in a good long time. My only concern is that the joyousness on display here might dissipate somewhat once Diana fully returns to herself, but in the meantime this was a very pleasant surprise (especially with the the Young Diana backup by Bellaire, Ganucheau, Goode, and Carey).

Superman #29: PKJ’s Superman thus far has been a story of overcoming initial worries of mine - in this case, my concern that he’d have a bad Scott Snyder-ey case of “if you’ve read the interviews you’ve pretty much already heard the dialogue of the comic verbatim”. In practice here most of what he’s had to say about these issues are distilled down really succinctly and poignantly in the midst of a fun little upper-atmosphere adventure portending something grimmer, and while I know it didn’t click with everyone I thought Phil Hester’s work here was a perfect accompaniment. The Tales of Metropolis backup wasn’t nearly as enjoyable, but hints at some interesting worldbuilding I’m hopeful will pay off in the main run.

The Green Lantern Season Two #12: The final Grant Morrison DC comic. One of two anyway, but if the next story I discuss is their broader final (non-Klaus, hopefully) statement on the superhero subgenre and a bridge to what they’re doing next, this is the one that’s about being The Final Grant Morrison DC Comic. A mélange of pretty much all their other DC finales into a shamelessly self-reflective meditation on the limits of what they can accomplish in shared universe storytelling where Green Lantern saves the universe through collective action and then fucks off to do his own thing elsewhere while the kids take over the ongoings. Weird and kinda perfect, and if nothing else this series took Liam Sharp from “really? This dude is drawing the last ever Morrison DC ongoing?” to “HOLY FUCKING SHIT LIAM SHARP”.

(The panel folks blew up over I think can be read multiple ways, but not in a ‘it’s open to interpretation!’ way so much as the storytelling/framing being unclear. I personally read it as ‘this is what neighbor versus neighbor looks like now’ rather than ‘calling someone a TERF or a Nazi is as bad as anything the other side does’, because oldster and out of touch though they may be I can’t see Morrison seriously saying that, especially after coming out.)

Wonder Woman Earth One Volume 3: At long last, after a hideous misfire kicking the series off and a second installment best described as ‘well, at least it wasn’t the first one’, this while not without elements I want to see femme and nonbinary critics discuss critically lives up to what you want to see out of ‘Grant Morrison’s Wonder Woman’. Big utopian fiction breaking the typical boundaries of superhero stories with aplomb in implicit conversation with a ton of their previous work, a bridge from what they’ve done to what they’re doing next, it’s an imperfect (especially with Paquette’s art, which while gorgeous and majestic in the way this story demands really doesn’t living up to the ‘acting’ necessary here in a way thrown into sharp contrast by Franquiz in PVR) but shockingly passionate statement of intent - if the last two volumes felt like Morrison struggling to have something to say with Wonder Woman in the same way they did with Superman and Batman, this feels at the close like them at last finding in her a way to do everything left with the cape and tights crowd they wanted to but couldn’t manage anywhere else under the Big Two umbrella. Odd and lovely, a fine sendoff.

[aion-rsa]

Helstrom: The Comic History of Marvel’s Son of Satan

https://ift.tt/33Vbv3V

On Oct. 16, Hulu will be releasing the latest Marvel tie-in series Helstrom. It’s not so much like one of those upcoming Disney+ MCU shows that feature high-profile superheroes telling stories that will be important to the overall fictional universe. It’s more like Daredevil or Runaways where quality be damned, you’re never going to hear anyone in the movies make anything close to a reference to it, but it counts as part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe anyway.

The series is about siblings Daimon Helstrom and Ana Helstrom, who have seemingly normal lives, but oppose demons and evil people on the side. Their mother is institutionalized, which is fairly true to the comics, but their father is also referred to as “a powerful serial killer.”

In the comics, things are a bit grander. Their father isn’t just any serial killer, but a variation of Satan. Marvel has a bunch of guys whose identities are “basically Satan, but not really.” Instead of suits and turtlenecks, the two have comic adventures where they dress like they shopped off the sexy Halloween costume rack at Party City.

Daimon Helstrom (played by Tom Austen) gets both L’s in the comics as Daimon Hellstrom, but also has the rad nickname of Son of Satan. Shockingly, he’s a good guy! Mostly. Even when bare-chested with a glowing pentagram over his torso. Even with a magical pitchfork as his weapon of choice.

Son of Satan and his sister Satana are essentially the Marvel versions of Dante and Vergil from Devil May Cry. Both are half-human/half-devil and they lean on opposite sides of their genetics.

So let’s say you want to get into Hellstrom’s comic book exploits. Well, you’re in luck because we have a list of his main character runs since showing up in 1973.

The Early Spotlight (1973-1975)

Hellstrom made his first appearance in Ghost Rider #1. In the first two issues of that series, Hellstrom was hired as an exorcist to help deal with a missing woman who had been possessed. Interestingly enough, they never gave a clear look at Hellstrom in those two issues other than the demonic birthmark on his chest.

Initially, Hellstrom had a Jekyll and Hyde gimmick to the point that he told the woman’s loved ones to lock him up in a dark room and not let him out no matter what he said. Unlike the supporting characters in Young Frankenstein, the bozos didn’t take that to heart and let Hellstrom’s more maniacal personality Son of Satan loose.

Sidenote: His adventures were originally going to be called “the Mark of Satan” with more emphasis on Satan as the antagonist, but doing comics focused on Satan was deemed a little over-the-line, so they changed it.

Second sidenote: I did not hit her, it’s bullshit, I did not hit her, I DID NOT! Oh hi, Mark of Satan!

Read more

TV

How Helstrom Became One of Marvel Television’s Last Shows Standing

By Alec Bojalad

Son of Satan’s adventures continued into Marvel Spotlight #12-24. It didn’t take long for Marvel to realize that giving him a double-identity was kind of a lame idea and instead had Satan Sr. magically handwave that away and make Son of Satan just one dude. Definitely for the better as he no longer felt so blatantly like Marvel’s answer to Jason Blood/Etrigan.

Hellstrom continued to fight against ghoulish enemies while opposing his father’s ways and dated some generic woman whose name I couldn’t tell you if you paid me a million dollars. It all culminated in a really strong finale issue where Hellstrom fought against and with his sister Satana, but maybe ignore the part where Hellstrom had a dream about the two of them making out.

Striking Out Solo (1975-1977)

Son of Satan had his own self-titled ongoing series that only lasted eight issues. From the beginning, Hellstrom went to Hell to basically tell off his dad as a way to say that this series wouldn’t be about their rivalry. Instead, it was Son of Satan dealing with a bunch of random villains that nobody would ever really remember.

There was one ridiculous enemy named the Possessor (not to be confused with the Elder of the Universe) who wore a mask to hide the fact that he had demon faces where his ears are supposed to be. Too bad he never showed up outside of this series.

It was a trippy outing, but ended before it could find its footing.

Demon Defender (1981-1983)

The Defenders are, of course, the bundle of heroes who don’t quite fit in with the Avengers, Fantastic Four, or X-Men but need people to hang out with. Guys like Hulk, Dr. Strange, Namor, Valkyrie, etc. Son of Satan became a regular ally in the team’s early days, appearing to help out every now and then. Most notably, he was part of a storyline where the Serpent Society kidnapped the Defenders and Clea put together a second team to rescue them, featuring the likes of Son of Satan, Daredevil, and Luke Cage.

Then again, the only thing anyone truly remembers about those issues is a very bizarre and legendary scene of a random guy getting killed by an Elf with a Gun.

As the series reached its 92nd issue, Hellstrom finally joined the team. On one hand, having Son of Satan on the team meant the Defenders had to take on the occult more than usual. On the other hand, Hellstrom soon fell in love with fellow Defender Hellcat, who was regularly dealing with constantly being possessed and turning into a scantily-clad demoness.

When Defenders hit its 100th issue, they did a really climactic storyline where a handful of the various Marvel Devil guys invaded Earth and Son of Satan had to take on Father of Son of Satan for the fate of Earth. The conclusion is rather surprising.

Prince of Lies (1993-1994)

Okay, so Daimon Hellstrom and Patsy Walker have been married for ten years (our time). It’s a fairytale romance where they’ve made a few guest appearances here and there, but have otherwise retired, happily ever after. What could POSSIBLY taint such true love?

90s comics. That’s your answer.

Welcome to Hellstorm: Prince of Lies, a 21-issue ongoing series where every issue looks like a Nine Inch Nails video and they try to see how much lanky nudity they can get away with showing in a Marvel comic. Like, holy crap, there has to be a world record for shadowed-out junk in this series. They even edit in some obvious, hastily-drawn underwear on characters at times as if the editor has realized they’ve gone too far.

It’s a gritty and grimy series that you’d expect from a 90s comic where much of it is written by Warren Ellis and the main character is Satan’s son. Lots of spikes, sharp teeth, long hair, suffering, insanity, and so on. It’s most definitely a product of its time.

Plus it’s called “Hellstorm” instead of “Hellstrom.” Scout’s honor, I didn’t notice the difference until my editor pointed it out.

Maximum Hellstorm (2006-2007)

Ah, Marvel MAX. The days when Marvel decided to give R-rated comics a shot and just threw everything at the wall. Hellstorm: Son of Satan was one of them, going for five issues. By this point, we’re in the mid-00s, so Hellstrom has a more down-to-earth look and is constantly talking to his father on a cellphone and tries so hard not to remind us what he looked like in the 70s and 80s.

But because it’s Marvel MAX, it means that his adventure is filled with lots of curse words, ultra-violence, gross demon boobs, and explicit Jesus imagery you normally wouldn’t see in a comic like this.

While the whole “Hellstrom messes with Egyptian underworld deities” storyline is a bit high concept, it still feels more like the new Hulu show than anything else.

Zombie Slayer (2009)

Speaking of gritty Marvel trends, there’s Marvel Zombies! While the initial Ultimate Fantastic Four storyline and the first two volumes of Marvel Zombies dealt with the happenings of a doomed universe, the next few volumes went slightly more uplifting. After all, sometimes you need to have people to root for who can back it up.

In Marvel Zombies 4, the Black Talon and the Hood (under the influence of Dormammu) try to use the decapitated head of Zombie Deadpool (otherwise known as Headpool) to bring forth the zombie apocalypse in the regular Marvel universe. Yes, we actually have canon stakes this time.

To prevent this, we have the Midnight Sons, made up of Son of Satan, Morbius, Jennifer Kale, Werewolf by Night, and Man-Thing. It’s an incredibly badass group working through an incredibly badass adventure. Too bad the team doesn’t last.

On a similar note, around this time there was a miniseries called the Last Defenders where Son of Satan was a major character. It’s just that by the time the team came together, they were an immediately-forgotten afterthought, so there’s no use in giving it its own entry.

Ghost Riders in the Sky (2009-2010)

Jason Aaron had a really, really, really great run on Ghost Rider. Most definitely read it. It’s pure grindhouse and I love it.

The whole run finished with Ghost Riders: Heaven’s on Fire. This culmination featured Johnny Blaze and Danny Ketch working together against a corrupt angel, the anti-Christ, and a group of villains from earlier in the run teaming up.

At least they have Daimon Hellstrom there to help out. Unfortunately, Hellstrom looks outright goofy with a bald head and Fu-Manchu mustache. The story brings back Jaine, his EXTREME love interest from the 90s series who he ended up with after his relationship with Patsy went very south.

Anyhow, Jason Aaron’s Ghost Rider run. Read it!

Strikeforce (2019-2020)

Much like how X-Men had X-Force as the team that would do the really dirty work, Avengers had a spinoff team called Strikeforce. Made up of Winter Soldier, Angela, Blade, Spider-Woman, Wiccan, and Spectrum, the team soon brought Hellstrom into the fold. Which is just as well, since he was working for Baron Zemo for a little while and really needed to get his head back on straight.

Unfortunately for Hellstrom, 1) he retained his bald look from Heaven’s on Fire and 2) the series didn’t last all that long. Only nine issues, sadly. Eh, it was fun while it lasted.

cnx.cmd.push(function() { cnx({ playerId: "106e33c0-3911-473c-b599-b1426db57530", }).render("0270c398a82f44f49c23c16122516796"); });

At least he’s joining the Savage Avengers next! And they’re giving him his hair back!

The post Helstrom: The Comic History of Marvel’s Son of Satan appeared first on Den of Geek.

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[co-mixed]

What’s wrong with the characters in TROS

Obviously, Spoilers.

None of the characters were treated properly in this movie. And, before we go one by one, there are some things to consider. First and foremost, Rian Johnson went deep with trying to understand what each one of them would do and why. So, in a way, he’s given JJ the perfect outline of what they should do next. The only thing he had to do is listen. But somewhere it went wrong, so we went back to one dimensional archetypes, lifted straight from the OT. More mythical, less human, more standard, less unique. Let’s take a look.

Finn

Let’s face it, if and when somebody really stole John Boyega’s script, the only thing they found there was the line “Rey” randomly scheduled for different points in the movie. There is an attempt to make up for that with Force-sensitivity, but that’s a hint that you just don’t drop in the last movie of a trilogy. And that’s what TROS is supposed to be, a finale to the two movies that came before. And with Finn’s complete lack of knowledge or understanding of the Force that we’ve seen in the comics or books, it really has no place there. Where was that famous story group? Maybe taking a day off.

Finn has nothing to do in the movie, since there was no story for him. He just tagged along with Rey or Poe, became a general through nepotism, even though there were much more experienced people for that job, and ultimately, he was just there as a plot device several times.

Rose

That’s one of the worst cases. JJ spent a lot of time saying how glad he is to Johnson that he’s cast Kelly. Then he simply didn’t write a story for her either. Because you know, galaxy is not a place for a righteous optimistic girl. (Unless she’s a Palpatine)

And I would’ve written more, but well… it was wrong and that’s just it.

Poe

Poe already has a backstory. So what do you do? As a writer, you try to understand how to work his guilt from TLJ into TROS. But as someone who’s trying their best to undo TLJ, you just throw it all away and play off of similarities with Han. He’s charismatic, shoots well, flies well. Done, make him a smuggler. The whole unnecessary retcon kind of might work for general audience, since most people never learned anything from his past. With TLJ they’ve learned who he is now, but did they even need more? He already went through all the needed changes, to get him to lead the rebellion.

The only in-character moment was his rant at Rey, where he says that she is the best fighter, and they need her.

The most out of character moment is him blaming his so-called friends for being an ex-stormtrooper and a Scavenger. Man, you chose to do that, they were forced into it.

Zorii

Why was she even there? Nepotism maybe? Cool costume? Merchandise? I don’t know, but she was not there to serve the story.

Allegiant General Pryde

Pretty much the same thing as Zorii.

Hux

Poor character. I mean, really. He was a fanatic of the First Order, of the Empire, and all the evil regimes. This was pretty well pictured up to the point when one brave writer decided that his hate for the newly self proclaimed Supreme Leader is stronger than his hate for… let’s call it lack of Order. It seemed from his story, that he’d be the first in line to pledge allegiance to the Emperor. But surprises never cease in TROS. Not for a moment. Also, JJ deals with him in a matter of minutes. Done, and done. Next.

Jannah

What a cool character, for a show or a spin off. She has potential, I’ll give her that. Naomi Ackie is likable enough to carry her own show. But there was no need for her in TROS. Partly because it’s way too late for new characters, and partly because she’s also not given much to do. That mumbo-jumbo about the Force and troopers defecting, that’s a nice sentiment. But also could have been done by any random trooper.

Leia

Let’s not talk about her being in the movie, let’s stay on character topic. Her Jedi training was just a very random last minute concept, probably straight out of Legends. And she could’ve just as well been giving Rey pep talks or reach Ben without it. So that’s more of a “just why” moment. The part would have been the same, the lightsaber wouldn’t have existed, but that is still very fixable.

Palpatine/Snoke/All the Sith

Just why would you even bring him back? Anakin brought balance, killing him, got his redemption, taught the audience the primitive rule that only death is truly redeeming (which worked fine in the 70s), and Palpatine died. But then he was back because reasons, and we don’t need to see how or why. He also now is All-the-Sith-in-One, and very very powerful. Apparently, at least one character spends their off screen time learning. So… good for him?

If they wanted ancient evil, I’d rather they went with Plagueis. He could’ve seen the rise and fall of the Empire, he could’ve fooled death and he could’ve easily fooled his apprentice along with Kylo and obviously Rey.  It even works perfectly within the concept of balance where “Darkness rises, and Light to meet it”.

To be even more honest, I’d prefer that TROS was just concluding the trilogy, without bringing up old bad guys. There is still plenty of those in the next-gen.

Rey/All-The-Jedi

As every imaginable critic has already stated, one of the most inspiring messages of The Last Jedi was “you could come from nothing and become something”. And this way Rey would have been a perfect representation to any girl of how you build yourself with the help of your friends. That is what fairy tales are usually about. That or space princesses, heirs to Palpatine, who, we have to believe, had a son. At this point it would be way better if the stranger on Pasaana did randomly name her Solo (imagine that).

But my verdict is that Rey’s story in this movie wasn’t necessary, and was a rehashed story of Kylo Ren. Think about it, he was fighting the light in his bloodline, and tried every imaginable thing to destroy it, but still couldn’t. Not that it’s a bad idea, it’s just that we’ve seen in already in 2015. The character had a clear path ahead of her after TLJ, but again, she was forced into a completely different story. Just because she wants to be a Jedi really bad, doesn’t mean that she is immune to the Dark Side, because she’s not immune to fear. One scary vision of her on the Dark Side, and that’d be enough. Not to shoot lightning, but to go a bit dark, effectively pushing her adversary closer to the Light. And that would’ve been fine.

But she had to be All-The-Jedi instead, didn’t she. Funny how that’s now a thing, and we still have separate Force Ghosts of Luke and Leia (but not a certain Solo). This whole things falls apart, and if someone just reread the story at least once the day after it was finished, they would see it.

Somehow, the movie comes down to Palpatime defeating a Palpatine, and Skywalkers were in this Saga there for the show.

Kylo Ren/Ben Solo/The last Skywalker

His story feels fairly well done, except for a few moments. Because in TLJ, hу killed Snoke, we were lead to believe that he would come into his own. We also know what a nerd he is, so he probably has some knowledge of who Palps is, and how his kind operates. Now when he delivers the line “I killed Snoke, I’ll kill you”, I believe him. When he starts asking questions, I don’t. And that’s because it’s written, it’s there on paper, but that’s something the character refused to do willingly.

This happens a few times, and probably the cringiest of them all is when the writer forces him to say that Rey is a Palpatine. Because that’s the first time we hear that out loud, and aside from thinking “No-nо-no not that”, we experience a case of disbelief. That’s not how we wanted this to go, and that’s not how the story was supposed to work.

Then there are wonderful scenes with Rey and with Han, the ones we were always supposed to get, and then the awaited redemption. That was the story, the one that resonates with his character. What does not is what happens after — yeah, the pit. The last Skywalker spends his final battle, the destiny of his bloodline in the pit, while the Jedi choose to support Rey.

His death is another choice that I deem unnecessary, and a bit lazy. You need to live with your mistakes and learn to forgive yourself, while working through your issues. But sure, death it is.

Overall

Probably the biggest mistake of this movie is letting a Palpatine take the Skywalker name, and letting the last Skywalker be pretty much forgotten. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Rey’s supposed bloodline defines her, but it just doesn’t sit well with me. She’s lost someone important, a soulmate, and so many fans felt the loss, imagine how she supposed to feel. Her next stage would be Dark Side, because she by no means can live with that. And that’s far from a hopeful message.

A happy ending for this space fairy tale would’ve been the only reasonable choice.