#but at least i don't present my opinions as objective and representative of the fandom as a whole

[lunanoc]

i thought i'd seen all the Bad Takes this fandom can generate atp but no 🫠

when i say people only like being in it bc they can play a giant themed dnd game, i mean it. otherwise there wouldn't be people seriously suggesting fan fiction (that's conveniently only written by themselves and their group of friends ofc) as an entry point into a fandom for newcomers who've never interacted with the source material in any way so they can get a solid grasp of the characters rather than idk. the source material ???

with all due respect, why would you ever use fan fiction and fanon perception as the basis of your own perception of characters and stories rather than the source material its derived from, knowing fanon is always going to be skewed and give you biased secondhand information. and why would you ever suggest it in the first place?

[blortch]

Hi it's me again

I didn't plan on replying but then I saw you wrote several paragraphs in response and then so did I and then my phone crashed so here's a shorter version. (future me here: it was not shorter, it was longer and maybe a little more frustrated because I've been working for the last 14 hours on what was supposed to be my day off and I'm tired and I hope it doesn't come off mean spirited.)

I never made any assumptions about how much you watch them and I have no feelings about how you use Tumblr. I don't follow you and we don't know each other, but I hope your year at school goes well.

It comes off like you don't like them anymore because a lot of your criticisms aren't well thought out. They sometimes involve things they've been doing for literally over a decade (the long jokes thing, they did it in BOTW 21 and again way back in 2012 in a HITB) and if anything I think they're just continuing to do what they love doing and they don't care what anyone else thinks about it.

I don't have a problem with your criticisms inherently and I'm glad you feel like the community here is chill, but I also think it's fine if people like me disagree with you without you putting a bunch of words in my mouth. My one sentence about how it comes off like you don't like them didn't *really* warrant three paragraphs made up of stuff I never said nor implied.

The problem I *do* have with your criticisms is they come off as parasocial fan theories a lot and I feel like I'm reading YouTube comments where yet another person has done numerology theorycrafting on why they think THIS is the last RLM video for REAL THIS TIME. Or Reddit dreaming up that Jim and Colin aren't friends because they aren't constantly standing in the same room with each other.

I really think the Zoomers thing is *not serious* and it just makes Mike laugh. They've almost always had an adversarial relationship with their audience and I think he's fully aware that Gen Z is part of it.

And I never said you didn't care. I think you probably care too much. And that is informed by your regular habit of making assumptions about their personal lives (is Colin wearing a hat so important? He's done it before. Sometimes he wears hats. Sometimes he doesn't.) and their emotional and mental states and how that reflects in their videos. You may have issues with fandoms who treat their figures like idols, but you have a tenancy to represent the other side of that coin. I think that's unfair to the RLM crew when they are very clear about *not wanting* people to speculate about their personal lives.

Long jokes can get old, long jokes can be forced or done wrong, or at least be done wrong more frequently, there are Mike-tangents I tolerate better than others, the latest ones I have a hard time in finding them interesting. And this doesn't affect how i feel about the ones I liked and still like of theirs.

Your theory that Mike's Zoomer talk is just another version of earlier jabs he's made at fans since forever I think makes sense.

I think you have a point that although I try to discourage too much speculation about their personal lives, the second step I do after criticizing their choices in what they present publicly in their channel is to look for motive which certainly falls into speculating about their personal selves.

More generally, I think it can even be said that I do try a bit too hard in finding motive behind people's actions, I did so for your ask and I do so for RLMstuff because I see it as part of the whole game. I've seen certain behavior before so I connect the dots from there and assume RLM are doing of the sort, or I project stuff of mine onto them. I think this subjectivity of course comes with my claims and I've said before that because of it I don't like treating my own opinion as anything like "objective", "the absolute best" or even reasonable to make. I try to use language that hints towards this but probably more often than not I omit the "to me personally it came off like... [example:] Mike's just an asshole". and instead say the easily misunderstood shorter version "I think Mike's an asshole" or even "Mike's an asshole."

A lot of the times it's for the sake of discussion. There's nothing much I could say about an anon ask about a theory concerning Colin's hat that I never would've considered otherwise so I make up whatever on the spot to keep up the conversation.

You're explaining to me how you made an observation that I read too much into, where I assumed that you wrote me an ask in the vein of "why are you doing this when you could just. not". But like I just explained I took the ask as an excuse for me to just blab about. I apologize if it felt to you like I was putting words in your mouth but anon asks aren't conversations, I see them more as the template of a post because I approach them with the knowledge that there's no way for me to know who you are or what your intentions are with certainty, so any claim I make in response is inevitably going to be full of assumptions or not be the specific answer you wanted.

Anyway, I hope you get your well-deserved rest, 14 hours of work sound horrible

[iced-blood]

I don't want to make exuse for the mind crush of Yami in the manga, but in the same time...Kaiba has literally pushed all his buttons. Kaiba is gone a lot too far in the manga. Even if it excuse nothing of course.

Okay. Look. Apologies ahead of time, Anon, but this has been a long time coming. I am not angry. I am tired. This will cover more than you’ve addressed.

I keep telling people that I don’t work with the Yu-Gi-Oh! manga’s canon. I keep telling people that I work with Duel Monsters canon. Every post I make, barring very few exceptions, is marked with the “duel monsters” tag to reflect this. Those exceptions are tagged “manga” or “season zero,” depending on which variant of canon I happen to be using.

I am very, very clear and consistent about this.

But people keep asking me about the manga, anyway. Apparently it isn’t clear by my rampant avoidance of manga continuity in my fanfiction — which is where you will find the vast majority of my engagement with this series and fandom — that I hate it. Well. I do. I hate the Yu-Gi-Oh! manga. I understand, embrace, and adore what it represents. And you will never hear a bad word about Mister Takahashi’s artwork from me. He’s a wonderful artist and I am in absolute awe of him for that. But the actual product of Yu-Gi-Oh! — in terms of storytelling, character interpretation, character growth, and consistency of its own rules — infuriates me.

A lot of people prefer the manga. It may even be safe to say that a majority of Yu-Gi-Oh! fans prefer the manga. And I’m sure there are any number of things about the Duel Monsters anime that infuriates them. The animation quality, perhaps. Or the watering down of various plot elements. The sidelining and borderline ruination of Katsuya Jonouchi’s character. All versions of this story have flaws and, for many, I’m sure the anime’s flaws outweigh the manga’s.

That is their prerogative. You will note, I hope, that I leave such fans to their business. My opinion on their preferred canon is not useful to them, so I don’t go out of my way to give it. I would have hoped for the same courtesy in return.

Anon, you were polite in your approach, which is more than I can say for others who’ve confronted me about this topic. With this in mind, I will endeavor to explain why I take issue with the argument you present here, as well as why I don’t like this line of discussion. That may not be what you were looking for in a response, but it’s what I have, and it’s what I will offer.

A note: just because I don’t like the Yu-Gi-Oh! manga doesn’t mean I haven’t read it. I will be using Chapters 1, 9, 10, 24, 25, 27, 39, and 40 to explain my position here. So if anyone reading this hasn’t read the manga, but intends to, keep this in mind before clicking the Keep Reading link. Understand that this is going to be long, it is going to be critical, and I am not open to debate. I have been approached, in my space, and this is going to be my final word on everything I have been avoiding since I started this blog.

If that interests you, then read on. If it doesn’t, then let us part ways here. No harm done. I wish you the best.

Now, then. Let us begin.

The Case Against Inconsistency: Katsuya Jonouchi

Like any story, Yu-Gi-Oh! has various themes that define it. Whether outright stated or just implied throughout, they exist. And one of the things we learn, throughout the story of Yugi, Atem, and their various friends, acquaintances, and antagonists, is this: how people conduct themselves determines their success.

It’s a classic Good VS Evil paradigm, and it’s one that a lot of us are familiar with. How does it play out? Well, in theory, what this should mean is that people who conduct themselves fairly, with honor and integrity, prevail. And people who conduct themselves poorly, with deceit and bitterness, will not. I think that a fair amount of fans of Yu-Gi-Oh! will agree with this idea.

Good people succeed. Bad people fail.

Yu-Gi-Oh! uses its duels like another anime would use a fight scene. When Naruto — or Goku, or Ichigo, or Kenshin, or whichever shonen action hero you fancy — comes up against a new opponent, we expect him to win. Why? Because he’s the hero. He’s the Good Guy™. And that’s how this is supposed to go, right? The hero is supposed to win because if the hero loses, that isn’t fair.

The world isn’t fair, people say. And that’s true. This is why we look to fiction. Or, at least, it’s why I look to fiction. In fiction, the world can be fair. And in a fair world, the good folks win. So that’s what we want to see. We want to see the hero struggle, sure. We want the fight to be hard-won. But we still want it to be won.

In this story’s case, we have Yugi Mutou. He’s our hero. And when we’re introduced to him, we’re given a clear indication of why we’re supposed to root for him.

When Our Hero™ is confronted by Katsuya Jonouchi here, right in the first chapter, it’s clear who’s supposed to be sympathetic. Jonouchi is a bully. Taking Yugi’s things away from him and goading him to fight for them. For a story that sets itself up in a high school, this is pretty standard. This is Episode 1 territory. And Yugi, bless him, sets himself up quickly as the good guy. He hates fighting. He hates violence. And those are traits we, as people living in a “proper and civilized” world, should admire.

Hiroto Honda doesn’t come off looking much better. But notice here that, even though Jonouchi and Honda are both antagonizing Yugi, he’s not exactly condemning them. Maybe it’s a defense mechanism. Maybe he’s just scared of getting a rise out of them, because they’re set up as bullies and Yugi is set up as a favored victim. But regardless of why he acts the way he does, I think it’s a pretty safe bet that a lot of people reading this story are going to relate to Yugi, in this moment, before they relate to the other two.

Then, we’re introduced to the second sympathetic character in this opening scene. Anzu Mazaki is quickly established as (1) Yugi’s friend and (2) someone that Jonouchi and Honda are afraid of. This is (tangentially) important to note.

If Yugi has someone willing and ready to protect him, and that someone has the edge over his bullies, then is he honestly afraid of them? Maybe he isn’t. Maybe that’s the point. He doesn’t like dealing with Jonouchi and Honda at this moment, but this presented a question in my head: does he fear them? Are they enemies to him?

Given what happens later on in this chapter, the answer to the former is kind of up in the air, but the answer to the latter is most likely no.

But anyway. A bit later on, we reach the first major point to which I want to draw specific attention. The first major moment that is relevant to why I have take issue with the idea that “Kaiba has literally pushed all his buttons.”

Jonouchi, still angry that things didn’t go his way in the intro scene, has opted to steal a piece of the Millennium Puzzle — which we all know is an immensely important part of this story’s mythology — so that Yugi will never be able to complete it, even if he gets it most of the way there.

The puzzle represents Yugi’s only real goal this early on: he wants friends. He’s heard from his grandfather that the Millennium Puzzle grants wishes, and his wish is for friends. What I mean to point out is that Jonouchi’s behavior here is an immense violation of Yugi’s privacy, and a serious blow against Jonouchi’s integrity. I’ve been robbed before. It’s an absolute travesty, and I have extremely limited sympathy for people who would steal like this. Taking food from a store because you’re starving? I know that’s a classic tactic and maybe it’s a cliché at this point in the game, but still. I’m probably not going to judge anyone for that. Desperate calls and all.

But stealing someone’s most prized possession because you’re sulking? That’s … pretty black-and-white awful in my book.

Some of you might be wondering why I’m going into this much detail about plot elements that occur before Seto even shows up. Others might be wondering how I can say that Jonouchi isn’t worthy of sympathy for what he’s done here, considering what Seto does later on. Well. I’ll get to that.

But for now, consider these points from the remainder of the introduction: Yugi defends Jonouchi and Honda, getting himself beaten up in the process. It’s thus established that these two boys — who are implied to have been bullying Yugi for at least a little while now — are Yugi’s friends. In spite of what we see in the beginning, and in spite of how Jonouchi in particular acts during his introduction, Yugi considers the both of them friends.

The Case Against Inconsistency: Seto Kaiba

Now, then. What about Seto Kaiba, you might be wondering?

When he’s introduced in Chapter 9, there really isn’t much to be said about Seto, other than there’s something off about him. And he really, really wants Sugoroku Mutou’s Blue-Eyes White Dragon.

I want to draw your attention to the first moment when we really sense what’s being set up with Seto’s first chapter.

When Seto can’t trade for, or buy, Sugoroku’s card … he decides to steal it. Now. Generally speaking, we would be expected to understand that this is an Objectively Bad Thing™, right? Of course it is. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior. I just covered this.

But recall the specifics: Yugi’s been stolen from before. Does he know that? No. Yugi never figures out that it was Jonouchi who stole that pivotal piece of the Millennium Puzzle. Not directly. But the point I’m making here is: we know it was Jonouchi. We, as the audience, know what happened to the last person who robbed Yugi.

… Absolutely nothing.

This is what I mean when I say that the manga is … weird about enforcing its own rules. Seto Kaiba is set up as a villain for doing the exact same thing Yugi’s own best friend did in the first chapter. Now, let’s look at the other part of Seto’s introductory equation, which occurs when Yugi confronts him about having stolen his grandfather’s prized card.

Seto gets irritated that Yugi won’t let this whole thing go, and clocks him across the face. Now. Seto is not shown in a sympathetic light here. I’m not trying to claim that he is. My point with these scenes — aside from transparency — is simply one of consistency.

Aside from the fact that Seto is rich and Jonouchi is not, there is effectively zero difference between them right now … unless you want to count the chronological order of their respective sins. Jonouchi antagonized Yugi, then stole something important to him. Seto stole something important to Yugi, then antagonized him.

Unless you want to get pedantic, in other words, Katsuya Jonouchi and Seto Kaiba are — textually speaking — the same person. The same obstacle. And given what happened to Jonouchi at the end of his chapter … shouldn’t we expect Seto to get off relatively lightly, too? Isn’t that what we know about Yugi Mutou? That he’s a forgiving soul? That’s what I took from the first chapter.

But what happens?

Well, of course, at this point in the story, we’ve been introduced to The Other Yugi™. Atem, as he will come to be known, the spirit trapped inside the Millennium Puzzle, who comes out and possesses Yugi’s body to extract vengeance — or justice, depending on your point of view — on people who trespass against him. We know very little of what Atem is honestly about during this section, though. We don’t even know his name, or have a nickname for him yet.

What we do know is that Atem plays games to make his points. Games which reflect the nature of the players’ souls. Games which exalt the righteous, and condemn the guilty. So what does this other Yugi do? He challenges good old Kaiba-kun to a game of cards.

There are a few important points to make about this duel. I’m not going to be giving a play-by-play. Instead, we’ll go over the highlights. First: when Seto realizes that he’s losing the duel, and can’t defeat the spirit, he decides to cheat.

And because this is a Shadow Game, or a Dark Game … a magic game, in other words, Seto is punished. But instead of just disqualifying him and ending the duel, which is what would actually happen if someone cheated like this … it goes on.

That’s … that is not part of the rules. Nowhere in the initial buildup to this match did Atem specify that Seto’s cards had to have his “heart” in them. And nowhere in the rules of this game does it say that a monster’s attack can be negated by pontificating at it.

Again. This was not established in the beginning of the duel. The rules do not state that a monster that doesn’t belong to the user will be destroyed. Atem did not make this clear when they sat down to play. This is plot armor. Or, rather, a plot weapon. Again, Seto is being punished for cheating. Of course. I cede this point.

But Atem directly benefits from these breaches of the rules. So, by continuing the duel and ultimately winning, he is also cheating. You can’t just decide something like this. Atem did not create this game. He does not have the authority to unilaterally declare how alterations to the rules are decided.

“Well, that guy cheated, so I’m going to cheat, too. And it’s okay when I do it, because he did it first.”

Are we in grade school? That’s the argument being presented, and it doesn’t matter. The duel is canceled and you start over. That is how you handle this. You don’t just arbitrarily alter the rules while the game is ongoing.

But even if you do … you certainly don’t do this when the game is over.

Seto Kaiba is forced, magically, into a literal psychotic break. He is forced through his own death at the hands of the monsters that died throughout the game. Atem claims that Seto shouldn’t worry, because “it’s only one night’s worth of nightmares … an illusion!”

That? Right there? That is horrifying.

Seto cheated at a game of cards. He didn’t commit murder. Is cheating acceptable behavior? No. But the punishment does not fit the crime. Atem condemned a child to his own hallucinatory execution. A child who, you may recall, we later find out grew up in a criminally abusive household, and has just escaped it.

Anon, you acknowledged that Atem is not to be excused, so this next part is not directed at you, but at everyone else who likes to act like Seto Kaiba should be hanged for what he did throughout the manga, but “oh, Atem’s growth is so wonderful and inspiring!”

The above example of other fans’ behavior is facetious and exaggerated and should not be taken seriously. But regardless of how I might view this whole paradigm, it doesn’t change the facts: either they both have crimes to answer for, or they both have redemption arcs worth celebrating.

I do not care what you think about Seto Kaiba. I do not care if you like him. I do not care if you hate him.  I do not care if you like or hate Atem. I do not care about Death T. I do not care about how long Atem spent trapped in the Millennium Puzzle. I do not care that Atem sacrificed his life for his country. I do not care that Atem died as a teenager. I do not care how much he eventually grows as a person. I do not care that Seto started this. I do not care that Seto cheated. I do not care that Seto lied. I do not care about any of that.

THIS IS OBJECTIVELY DISGUSTING.

Don’t tell me why you think Seto deserved it. Don’t excuse this. Don’t ignore this. Don’t you dare come into my space and tell me this is irrelevant. I will never let this slide. Seto Kaiba is a child, and he just got what little emotional equilibrium he had, after having survived Gozaburo Kaiba, shattered because he cheated at a game of cards.

Recall, if you please, my previous point.

Katsuya Jonouchi stole from Yugi Mutou, and antagonized him.

Seto Kaiba stole from Yugi Mutou, and antagonized him.

One got a best friend out of it.

One got tortured.

That is not acceptable, and it is not justice.

The Case Against Inconsistency: Mokuba Kaiba

Are we done? No. No, we are not.

There are fewer points to make in this section, so it will be shorter, but there are still important notes to take into account before we move on to the main event.

I always say: you don’t get one Kaiba without the other.

In Chapter 24, we’re introduced to Seto’s little brother.

Baaaan.

Mokuba is portrayed, initially, just as unsympathetically as Seto is. Like his brother, this kid presents a threat. A pretty substantial one, if those weapons are real. And given the early manga’s penchant for wanton violence, they probably are. For a story about children’s games, there’s a lot of … not-so-child-friendly elements to the opening chapters.

Naturally, given that this is a series about games, there have to be stakes. And Mokuba is very quick to establish what those stakes are.

And Atem is equally quick to accept them. Now, look. Obviously brandishing CEWs, assault weapons, and butterfly knives at people are entirely unacceptable actions to take, but these aren’t even teenagers we’re dealing with. Atem is a bit too gleeful for my tastes here, considering he just promised to torture a 10-year-old boy.

These are grade-schoolers.

Grade-schoolers who, aside from Mokuba, are obviously unnerved (and possibly frightened) by the spirit of the Puzzle. Now, I’m not saying it would have been smart on Yugi’s part to deny these kids whatever they wanted. But this is why you have a cursed pendant with a ghost inside it to help you out.

But, perhaps it isn’t fair to say that Yugi’s new vengeful friend should have worked harder to dissolve the situation. Maybe that’s not the right argument to make. After all, Mokuba started it. And who knows what he might do if he’s denied?!

Well. Considering what happens when Atem wins this game … I don’t think he really avoided any potential consequences by going along with what his attackers wanted.

See, you say that, Atem, but I don’t believe you when you say that Mokuba isn’t your enemy. You’ve treated him the same way as you have every other enemy you’ve come across in this story. The only net positive we can say here is that Mokuba doesn’t die.

Now. What’s my point with bringing this one up? Well, one, I don’t think the 10-year-old kid should have been forced into a confined space. What if he’s claustrophobic? What if his father used to lock him in his bedroom? What if, what if, what if. Atem doesn’t know anything about this boy except that he’s lashing out on his brother’s behalf.

And two: when you play with fire …

Obscenely rich, angry, chronically abused fire …

You get this.

The Case Against Inconsistency: Mind Crush

When the chapter that opens up the oh-so-infamous Death T starts, we get treated to two bits of information that are … extremely important to all of this. We are first reminded of what Atem forced Seto through, at the end of their first duel.

And then we are shown that Atem was wrong about his own consequences. He said, and I quote:

“It’s only one night’s worth of nightmares.”

Remember that? And yet, we see that Seto has had that nightmare at least twice. Time is nebulous in the manga, so it’s difficult to figure out how often he’s had this nightmare, but that isn’t important. He’s had it multiple times.

This is a problem, because our hero said it would happen once.

But it didn’t happen once.

Why is this such a big deal to me? Because when your hero’s entire problem with an antagonist is how dishonest he is, you cannot afford to be dishonest yourself. But here, Atem is shown to have been either ignorant of his own abilities, which is reckless, or outright lying.

Which is hypocritical.

My point is not that Seto Kaiba is blameless. It is not that I want people to stop paying attention to his faults. My point in all of this is that Death T — to which Anon is referring — did not happen in a vacuum, and Atem was partially responsible for it. Death T was not constructed to beat Yugi Mutou in a game. It was, and is, not a sign of Seto’s unhealthy obsession with victory.

Death T was a direct result of two things: Gozaburo Kaiba, and the “Experience of Death” penalty game.

Seto says nothing about losing. He says nothing about being beaten. His whole motive for Death T is to stop “that nightmare.” What does this mean? That if he had not had that nightmare, he would not have that motive. Would he have done something else? Maybe. Probably, even. But we’re not talking about possibilities. We’re talking about what happened.

And what happened is: Seto cheated at a game, was punished by a hallucination, had nightmares about that hallucination, and figured out a plan to stop them. Would Death T have worked? No. Is it acceptable behavior? No. Am I saying Seto Kaiba should be absolved for what he put the main cast through? No.

I am saying that it wasn’t just Seto Kaiba who was responsible for this.

There was also Gozaburo Kaiba, who tortured his adopted son to mold him into the heir that he wanted.

And Atem, who tortured his classmate to mold him into the opponent that he wanted.

You aren’t going to find many people willing to give Gozaburo Kaiba the benefit of the doubt. He’s pegged pretty constantly for the villain he is. Seto is also held accountable for the horrible things that he did. Death T was, and is, an atrocity. But Atem’s hands are not clean. He directly antagonized an unstable teenager with PTSD, one with the resources, the conviction, and the warped sense of right and wrong (courtesy of his aforementioned abusive father) to push right back.

Was it right? No. Was it fair? No. Was it acceptable? No.

So why talk about it?

Because when you say things like “Kaiba has literally pushed all his buttons,” you absolve Atem of what he did.

Atem tortured, and killed, several people in the name of justice.

The Kaibas were just the first of his victims to fight back.

Seto Kaiba pushed Atem too far? Fine.

Atem pushed him too far, too.

And only one of them ever gets taken to task for it.

If it makes me the Devil’s Advocate to focus on that, and harp on it, and get angry about it … so be it. I’m used to being the voice of dissent. And just so you all understand: I don’t like the way Seto is portrayed in the manga. I hate it. I hate him. That’s why I don’t deal with him. That’s why the anime is my focus. That’s why I don’t talk about the manga. I don’t like Seto, I don’t like Atem, I don’t like Honda, I don’t like Otogi, I don’t like Pegasus, I don’t like the Ishtars.

I don’t … like … the manga.

But, that being said.

No matter what he did.

No matter how far he went.

This is not heroic.

This is not worth celebrating.

This is not my Yu-Gi-Oh!

And I’m done talking about it.