#but for Seteth not to mention Flayn at all in his supports nor his sister who is being zumba'd in Enbarr like their siblings

[randomnameless]

I’m surprised at the amount of billy asks you get. Does it mean that they’re popular? All i know for sure is that they certainly seem to interest a lot of people. And i agree that they really do have the bones for a fascinating character, but the developers couldn’t be bothered to build something from those bones because 1) sim shenanigans, you can’t have your self insert react strongly if you’re meant to project 100% onto them, but billy does have traits that keep getting mentioned by more than one person plus the few actions they do choose and a backstory, which doesn’t seem like cardboard to me imho, but also 2) earl gray, and what invader added is the most damning detail of them all. Or rather, not a detail, but the anchor that sank billy. I know we’re meant to keep flamey and edelgard separate in our minds because edelgard is marketed as a poor sad waifu you must feel compelled to rescue, but it doesn’t erase her actions or flamey. When we have evidence saying that silver snow is meant to be the primary marketed canon route and so much of the conflicts across two games come down to the actions of one person plus a poorly thought out loptous stand in, all it tells me is that the main character was doomed to fail because the developers could not decide how to write a school mystery + romance of the three kingdoms sympathetic to cao cao so they tried to “fix” that or make it “gray” by turning it into a dating sim to artificially raise the emotional stakes. At least to me it says they didn’t have confidence in billy as a main character at all because so much of it hinges on centering edelgard and the players picking faves out of the rest of the cast, and to make it more insulting the compensation is being able to kill billy in the spin off? I myself don’t really have any big faves in the games because i only play them casually and read your blog, but what i do know is that it makes me hate edelgard for essentially being the gravitational center of the games like a narrative black hole and the developers being too cowardly to really cement her as a villain, and it doesn’t make me like warriors either because it doubles down on trying to explain her position instead of telling a story and because shez fans are extremely annoying and rude online, no surprise that many are also edelgard fans.

I'd say it's a cumulation of everything!

I think the fandom (myself included!) might have been a bit harsh on Billy because of their avatar status, even if I still think Rhea's S-support "aloneb4u" is shit and Seteth not giving any fucks about her and centering his support and convos on "we must find her so she will reveal da truth 2 u" is bonkers and both of those instances can't be only attributed to Hresvelg Grey but to "only the player is important", like the theory i came up with the self-insert scissors.

But yeah, I feel like at one point, Supreme Leader hijacked the "main character" or "character at the center of the plot we want to tell" spot, all gravitas went to "can u kill the student who loves u and bear with the sad uwus for the rest of your run ??" instead of, you know, the greater plot Nopes teased us with a Larva vs Sothis that never happened?

I compared FE16's story to many things earlier on, but the general thing is "why are we talking and following the least interesting parts of Fodlan", Supreme Leader's war of unification is meh, bias or no bias, I would have loved to see a War of Heroes game, or even a game set during the Sothis vs Agartha era (or the two why not) - but here we just have Ashnard lite with an uwu glazing, without even tackling a traditional or underlaying issue from the FE series about coexistence between people and acceptance and whatnot.

(the reason why AM is still, imo, a letdown because it ignores the dragon in the room)

What was Billy supposed to be? Supreme Leader's luf interest? A character that can conceptually fall (if they pick Tru Piss) thus can ascend in other routes? A self insert? The character you're supposed to navigate the world with?

I think Billy being a silent protag was a disservice to them - despite all of its faults, Nopes at least gives more light to Billy and it's refreshing, even if the game will never add 1+1 because Hresvelg Grey.

TBH I think Fodlan has its own share of fans being annoying regardless of the character they support - and while Barney is pretty chatty, ultimately Barney is the deviant art OC with two swords because why not, a sekrit past that is never explained and somehow stronger than everyone who is actually as empty as an oyster shell. We don't know what Barney wants, to be a merc? Yeah, but why? Is it because Barney is searching for somewhere to belong - just like Billy in a way - ?

As for the cardboard mention, it's most likely again in relation to Hresvelg Grey and Fe Fodlan's writing - the games don't spend enough time to build a sense of friendship and camaraderie between the cast to make the "betrayal" hurt or even the "y must we kill people we knew :'( " meaningful, so we only have the "wah sensei why didn't you pick me :(" or the general "i'm sad to fight against you" but like, mate, who are you? Why are you lamenting having to fight against Billy - someone who is opposing/invading your country and everything you stand for - like Billy and 12 months in Rhea's rocky mansion meant so much to you, much more than the 17 years of life (with acquaintances, friends, family, etc) you had?

But it's also in relation to Hresvelg Grey and the silent protag - why no one can give a reason - save for Supreme Leader "lizards BaD + MAGA" - to join this route, heck, not even Billy can say why they joined this route...

In French we have a saying that goes "comparaison n'est pas raison" more or less meaning you can't always compare things bcs context and all, but after TS's protag Serenor - who also has Gary Stu moments! - Billy not saying a thing about Supreme Leader's nonsense, frowning at Dimitri and being silent during Claude's monologues is... annoying.

But when Billy isn't in Fodlan games, they can talk and there's still the forbidden rule of not adding numbers - never ! - but they shine more.

[randomnameless]

Wait wait wait -

Re-reading Bernie’n’Seteth’s support :

Oh, um, that's Saint Cichol. The book describes him as one of Saint Indech's closest friends.

I got the feeling he was a very serious man but also really kind. You know, like you.

Bernie parrots the books going all “they were friends” but thinks from the descriptions Seteth looks like Cichol, for, uh, reasons.

In the JP version, we have this thing :

えっと……それは、聖キッホルさんです。 インデッハさんの親友って書いてあった。

厳しいけど優しいお兄さんって 感じだったので……

any weeb knows  お兄さん means older brother - but is Bernie saying Cichol from the stories feels like a close friend of Indech and his big but stern bro, or just, a close friend, like a big bro -

But anyways it’s hilarious, because taking into account how Flayn calls Uncle Turtle, yep, biologically or not, Seteth, I mean, Cichol, is seen by perceptive!Bernie as Indech’s big bro.

The big bro part wasn’t kept by the localised script - but Seteth eludes the “big bro” part and says Bernie’s words make him feel as if he is Indech’s “friend” ( 親友?)

We know from his Catherine and Cyril’s support he only reveals, uh, tibits of the “like family” truth to people he absolutely trusts, neither Bernie nor Catherine are at that level by the time he supports them - so he eludes any even ultra off handed mention that Saint Cichol might be Saint Indech’s big bro (re-focusing on the 親友 aspect).

But he’s also happy (and embarassed to have been sort of found unknowingly found out by Bernie out of everyone) to talk about his family, even if it’s in roundabout ways.

Which totally means :

Fodlan nonsense, Seteth feels bothered because no one talks about Saint Cichol’s exploits, so he slides here and there hints about “Saint Cichol was a master tactician and wrote a wonderful book I recommend to everyone”.

Under the cover of legends about the Saints, he shares embarassing anecdotes about them, Indech sulking in a lake, Macuil stealing Indech’s works to pretend he did the sacred weapons by himself and of course, his foolish sister :

“Legends said Saint Seiros was a bit of an impulsive warrior who always charged head first in a battle, like a bull.”

But Catherine found her even cooler.

[randomnameless]

Discussing about Lysithea yesterday with a friend made me realise...

FE16 is a game that is so centered on its protagonist + the possibility to join CF that, well, some character’s characterisation... is completely off.

Or it’s just me thinking too much about FE heroes but -

In FE16, Seteth tells Cyril in his “I am totally not your adoptive uncle” support that while he shows her deference in a formal context, she’s actually “like” family to him. So the odd convos from Fe Heroes about her not going to the beach or the scolding she receives for dressing like a witch falls in the “she’s totally not my sister” spectrum.

And yet... in FE16 proper?

Well, we see how Seteth reacts when Flayn is kidnapped because some maniac wants her blood and is after her because of her pointy ears. He is panicked, prone to make rash decisions, something even Rhea berates him for.

We know he has been looking for Rhea for at least 5 years during the TS, and also tried to look after the people at his own scale (reorganising churches, etc etc). He looks positively rejoiced to find her anew when she’s finally fred from Adrestia’s Gritnea Tower, and wants her to recover.

However... In his supports, or even in his only plot important route - everything seems accessory to Billy, there’s no worry about her being vivisected for parts or him being worried about his last (?) sister (?)’s security when she was caght by the same people who treated Flayn so well that she still has nightmares about it.

In their A support, Seteth goes :

We saw the moment where Seteth asked questions to Rhea about what is Billy, but Rhea didn’t answer. Then, “before she vanished”, he asks her again. I suppose this is an off-screen convo, but when does this happen ? When they are both overseeing the Monastery’s evacuation ? Or when she tells him she will buy them time by transforming in her dragon form?

During this extremely stressful period - let it be Empire goons already marching on Garreg Mach, or Empire goons going to march on Garreg Mach to steal the remaining parts of their family members to create monsters out of humans - the only thing Seteth managed to ask is... more info about Billy ?

There was no “damn how did they know we are inhumans” or “if only you didn’t trust Wilhelm with that knowledge” nor “I sure hope Macuil and Indech are alright, maybe we should regroup and tell them humans are after our parts again”, no.

The “pointed questions” were about Billy’s creation, and the homonculi.

And yes, I understand, maybe Seteth asked her all those other questions and facts I raised earlier, so this line in a nutshell isn’t that catastrophic.

But coupled with this :

Seteth is sure Rhea is somewhere in the city, and wonders if she is able to sense them coming...

But then it immediately switches to “if we are able to save her, she will tell you secrets”.

No mentions of “I hope she’s safe” or anyone wondering why “saving her” and not just freeing her, is she endangered??? Seteth, with the prospect of finally finding his sister (?) who had been caught for 5 years by people who turned his family in bone clubs, only has to say “if we find her she will tell you the truth about your birth”???

No “She’s in the Empire, but in what state...” hinting at her possible transformation in a pair of shiny daggers or “we have to rescue her, Rhea is like family... to me and you as well.”

Billy learning “the truth behind citrus” is more important than Rhea’s well-being, after being jailed by people who were looking for Nabatean bones and hearts. 

I’m exaggerating, but it’s as if Reyson tells Ike “if we manage to find my sister, she will be able to explain Lilia’s whereabouts since she’s the last who saw her and maybe the story we know about Yune and Ashera !” 

No, Reyson dgaf about the plot, or Ike learning some “truth” about his mother’s past, Reyson is only worried about his sister’s wellbeing!

We’ve a character who, apparently, thinks of her as his “totally not family” -  berates her on her swimwear and her dresses - whose reason to find her switches to “she well tell everything to Billy”.

I know Seteth isn’t one to talk a lot about himself - or if he does, he does it in roundabout ways - but I’d really have liked it if the game toned down the “gosh Billy, I hope we can find Rhea soon so she can reveal the things she has hidden from you” to “I hope my sister is safe from those people who diced the rest of our family to make shiny bone clubs”.

Heck, even in the Billy support, instead of “Rhea is only important because of the Truth she will tell you”, Seteth could confess that Rhea is like family to him, and they already lost a lot of family members “a long time ago”, that is why he doesn’t want to lose anyone else, Rhea, Flayn and now, Billy themselves (who he comes to regard as family too) ? And to keep things hidden, Billy could ask what he means, but Seteth replies he will tell them everything when they find Rhea.

Imo, it feels like, to Seteth, Billy learning the truth about who they are from Rhea is more important than his own feelings regarding his missing sister (?). Billy is the avatar and Sothis reborn, at this point Seteth knows it, and yet, does it imply not giving any fucks about Rhea, as a person? Is she only “important” now because of the knowledge she has, and not for being a member of his family he cares about??

Rhea... I am overjoyed that you are unharmed. I could not stand losing another of our kind.

“If you died no one could tell Billy who they are!”

Is this supposed to play in the “alone B4 U uwu” nonsense that is Rhea’s S-support - Seteth must not care about her at all else Billy won’t be “the only one uwu″ to befriend Rhea since Zanado ? The only one Rhea could be “Rhea” and not the Archbishop with since Zanado??

Were they thinking they needed to put Seteth in a bus and make him not care about her in anything but a professional sense (and yet couldn’t completely avoid the elephant in the room - White Clouds and Flamey already take too much place in SS) so the S-Support with Billy wouldn’t be completely nonsensical ?

Or is it because “Rhea sus” and the general framing of the game that they couldn’t make Seteth care about his sister more, because the end of all relationships has to be Billy ?

I know some people complain a lot about the 3H characters in FE Heroes, but damn if Fe Heroes doesn’t develop the characters from 3H in ways the game never bothered to.

Nemesis exists and explains his “might makes right” POV, Edel is Bernie’d for her Red Emperor tendencies, Dimitri’s parallels to other Lords shine even stronger, Rhea is an awkward but kind and playfum person, Worst Mom sucks, Seteth gives fuck about every member of his family and can share his “dad/brother” worries, etc etc.

90% of my reason to want FE16 characters in FE Heroes actually are tied to this - the heroes team develop Fodlan characters more than the FE16 team

[randomnameless]

seteth negative character growth in cf thoughts?

why must you tempt me so when i'm already struggling to write things about metodey !

I won’t say it’s as flagrant as other characters.

Cichol left after the War of Heroes to look after a comatose Cethleann. It is not said where they rested (Flayn mentions she slept in a casket).

Apparently, some 18 years ago, Rhea called him back. Now, Cichol could have refused and continued to watch over Cethleann like he did for the past 1000 years, but for some reason, he answered her call and came to the Monastery.

Seteth’s main concern is Flayn’s safety. He mentions it once to Billy I think, but Flayn is the most important thing to him, not the Church, not Rhea, not the world, but Flayn and only Flayn.

When things become dire in the monastery, after Flayn’s been recovered from Emile’s clutches, and he thinks they know about her “mysterious blood” he wishes to run away and hide, to protect her. It doesn’t matter that if Emile and pals know what is Flayn, they might know what is Rhea, nope. But Flayn tells him to stop and reconsider, and ultimately Seteth accepts to trust Billy with her safety (lol).

Then, things happen and Flamy does their stuff. Before being fridged, Rhea asks Seteth to support Billy, after revealing who Billy is supposed to be. Depending on your earlier choices (I suppose it has something to do with your support or if you accepted Flayn in your class or not?) Seteth accepts.

He accepts looking after and supporting Billy, if something happens to her (meaning GM is ruined and people know she’s a giant lizard) instead or running away with Flayn to hide until the world becomes dust.

SS Seteth even says “Each of our situations is unique. What we share is companionship and the will to fight as one.”

The BE humans are now his “companions” and the fight as one. That’s not the words of someone who only wants to protect his daughter.

In CF... this does not happen, because Billy betrays.

Billy is definitely not Sothis, nor shares her consciousness or anything like that, because Billy sides with Flamey who ordered Metodey to seize “bones and hearts” of the fallen Nabateans - Billy sides with the “eww dragon” crowd.

Betrayed by humans he reverts to his old persona - Flayn must be saved, no matter what.

“Dear Flayn. I only brought you with me because you were so insistent. Still, no matter what happens, you must not go near the front lines.”

Seteth never says that in the other routes. Are we supposed to understand he recognised her abilities and let her do as she wanted, instead of “allowing” her to be there only if she doesn’t go near the front lines?

“Even if we prevail, I doubt that the church can ever fully return to the way it once was... “

From the guy who reforms the Church in every ending - Seteth knows the Church cannot return to what it was, but strives to rebuild and better the institution.

Then, during the fateful battle :

“I cannot approve of your actions. But I also cannot follow Rhea on her current course”

Which is all kinds of “meh” + “player pandering shit” (you really cannot ‘approve’ seteth? Where did all the fire from the first battle go?) but it is explained later with :

“If Flayn and I survive this battle, we will withdraw from the world and leave you to do as you please.”

Rhea’s current course of action is to fight for survival and throw everything in the fight, even her life (she doesn’t run away or flee Fodlan). Seteth knows if they continue to fight, they’re not going to survive. Unlike her, he isn’t willing to put his, but moreover Flayn’s life, on the line.

Flayn knows it, when she goes “ When this is over, my brother and I will go into hiding. It is the only way.”. Implying even if they won, they would not continue to side by Rhea and instead run/hide.

Rhea knows this, and she expected it :

“ I see. As expected, I am the only one left.”

After all, Seteth always made it clear Flayn was his top priority :

“ I detest that person with all my heart. However, Flayn's life is more important to me than all else.”

Rhea, Flayn and Seteth all know in CF he is going to hide with Flayn after the battle in GM, and not finish the war.

Seteth reverts, not to his old WoH days, but to the days where he and Flayn hid from the world.

Contrast with SS, where Rhea’s surprised to see them at Billy’s side (even if she asked Seteth to support them!) :

“Seteth, Flayn... You are here as well...”

:) bonus Inoue!Rhea lines because she was allowed to emote

Rhea even thanks him for rescuing her! To which Seteth replies :

“Rhea... I am overjoyed that you are unharmed. I could not stand losing another of our kind “.

And then they go in their old people mode, reminiscing about the good’ol days in Enbarr.

I’m not implying Seteth couldn’t gaf about Rhea dying in CF, or other relics to be crafted, but Flayn was more important. In SS, Flayn is still important, but Seteth still wishes to rescue Rhea, because she is his kin, and they are old friends?/sibs? (the game is still a bit muddy on their exact relationship).

Tl; Dr : Seteth in SS (AM/VW presumably) goes from a guy who was only looking after his daughter and wanting to protect her from a guy who wants to protect the world and rescue his sister, while of course protecting his daughter. His endings makes him become a public person (in charge of the church), he “ditches” his old isolated life.

In CF? Seteth goes from a guy who was only looking after his daughter to... a guy who only wishes to protect his daugher, let his sister or the world be damned. He “returns” to an isolated life.