#but look Nol never included Alyssa when he was talking about the friends who are important and special to him so it's highly likely that he

[trashlie]

what r ur stalkyoo predictions

Oh man Nonny this is such a broad question lmao and it doesn't help that my "predictions" are constantly changing week to week. I'm going to do my best to write what I currently anticipate but... honestly just know that a week or three from now maybe it will change lmao but here's what I anticipate

(this DOES include FP spoilers up to 235)

At this stage, I think we're moving towards Stalkyoo both acknowledging/admitting their feelings, but perhaps not entering a relationship given, yknow... extenuating factors.

I think Dieter will talk to Nol and confront him on how he pushes everyone away and how it especially hurts Shinae, that he knows what he saw that morning and he knows that they both like each other, and what good is it to hurt her pushing her away just because she doesn't return Dieter's feelings? I think this conversation is important not just because Nol feels guilt towards Dieter, but because Nol needs to see and understand an earlier point Shinae made, that he cannot keep making decisions on their behalf. Just like pushing Shinae away in order to "mitigate her risk of harm", pushing away someone who reciprocates his feelings in order to not hurt someone else benefits no one.

Something crucial for Nol to understand is that a. there are some feelings you can't keep squashing down and b. what happens when you continue to do so. Not so much a prediction as much as I hope, I really hope Nol will look at the letters in the Bible from his father, so that he can better understand his mother and father's relationship, and how they ended up in the positions they did.

As much as Nol, Shinae, and Alyssa parallel Rand, Nessa, and Yui, the most important difference is that they are not yet in as deep. In leaving Yui for Nessa Rand stood to lose much more than Nol does - not just his life's work (the company), but he was already married and he had a child with Yui. I think Rand probably stayed to try to protect Kousuke the best he could, to try to counteract what he could. It wasn't as easy for him to leave. But Nol isn't in that predicament. He has all the opportunity to leave, to put himself first and to put his own needs and happiness first.

But it's still important for Nol to stand in Rand's shoes for a moment so that he can understand. Even though Nol has never really come out and said it himself, I think it's easy to see that he probably resents Rand for all of that - for being married and having an affair with his mom, leaving her a single mother to raise Nol all on her own, for everything that happened after they moved to Korea. It sounds like they lived in secret, undocumented immigrants hiding in the country put up by Rand but still unable to be part of his family. And I think that made him resent his mom a little, too. He asked Shinae what if you mistreated the cow from which your burger came and it lends some ideas to the guilt that Nol carries. What if before losing her, Nol fought with his mom? Fought about her relationship with a married man, hiding in a country where they had no one. He was alone, lonely. He had no friends.

It's so easy for Nol to point fingers and admonish blame. He was married, he shouldn't have done that! She shouldn't have done that!

But what kind of rules and arguments do you apply to a marriage that was never based on love, but rather was an arrangement? It's not confirmed, but it's always felt like Yui and Rand are an arrangement, rather than two people who married for love, much like Nol and Alyssa are. For Nol to stand in his father's shoes - to essentially have a responsibility (used very, very loosely here) to someone else but to know that his heart and happiness lie with someone else, to be torn between what is right and what he wants, perhaps he could better understand his parents, and how they ended up living the ways they did. Why Nessa clung to someone like Rand despite everything.

But also, just as importantly, I think it would give him more understanding of the choice Rand couldn't - didn't - make, and what could happen to Nol if he doesn't. It's not just his happiness that is in jeopardy but also Shinae's. Knowing what his mother was like, and how Shinae, too, is so relentless, unwilling to give up on him, might give him more of the resolve needed to make the choice that his parents were unable to.

Now, I'm uncertain of the order I think things from here will progress. Will Nol get a chance to talk to Alyssa and break up with her before he gets to talk to Shinae? Is Alyssa going to have to contend with dating rumors involving convicted felon Nol? At some point, whether it's a mutual choice or not, one of them is going to pull the plug on that fake relationship. The moment Alyssa's benefits are jeopardized by Nol's reputation, it's all going to fall apart. We know that much. Minhyuk has kind of hinted at it - Alyssa doesn't keep people around when their reputations bring her down and the moment it does, she's going to have to make the call, whether or not she wants to.

At some point, though, Nol and Shinae will talk. They both have very pointedly (on the same day!!!!) come to realize the nature of their feelings towards each other, to understand just what they mean to each other! And Shinae is SO feral about it! I FULLY think she's going to have a spicy dream about Nol lmao the smut in Maya's books was too heavy handed for it to not come back into play in Shinae's subconscious, further illuminating something she's just become aware of. It's not enough to want to hang on to his friendship - it's EVERYTHING she doesn't want to lose, it's what he he means to her, and what SHE means to him. Nol's been given a 3 day extension before has to go to prison and I don't think quimchee would deliberately write that if not to leave room for this to happen. Notably, this extension brings us to Christmas Eve; it just feels TOO pointed to ignore.

Maybe it won't happen until the final day, but I think Nol and Shinae WILL talk and it will set us up for their post-time skip dynamics. Whether or not they actually enter a relationship at this time, I think what is more important is that Nol and Shinae will very likely resolve a lot of this - what they mean to each other, how they feel about each other, but also understanding that they are better off together. It's so easy for Nol and Shinae to be used by Yui against one and other if they are isolated, if Nol is pushing her away, if they are not a united front. Nol needs to start taking steps to forming his alliances so that in the future he isn't left so vulnerable. A talk about their feelings is more than just about relationships; it will set them up for the future where they are both playing this game.

But for the sake of my predictions, I think Shinae WILL go see Nol, whether it's because she wants to demand her belongings back or because she suddenly gets shy and can't face him. I really don't think we're leaning towards that any more, but rather "fine if you won't me have you" (SCREAMS), some kind of high tension moment that will inadvertently bring their feelings out into the open lol. As much as I'd like her to go straight back to him after waking, I'm not totally certain if I think she will or if she'll wait until the next day. Maybe Nol needs to sit with his feelings, too, after his talk with Dieter to be a little pathetic about her and really drive home how much this is something he can't just keep repressing lol.

And while I'm not sure they'll actually enter a relationship at this time, I think what we'll probably see is how this brings them into the timeskip. My friends and I have been talking lately about Nol taking his own path - moving forward not as a Hirahara but as a Lochlain, not attending Oxford but perhaps some other school abroad, becoming a self-made man his own way, while Shinae remains in Korea and probably takes Yui up on her offer. My guess is that Shinae will basically "trade herself" for her father - make a deal that you leave my father be and fine, I'll do this, I'll let you cover my schooling. I just... I DON'T want her to lose Simhan, I DON'T want him to die to force Shiane's hand. I'd much rather see her be proactive and take action against Yui, because as much as it still means she's being "forced" into taking up Yui's offer, it's still more or less on her own terms, it's not nearly as dire as what happened at the formal.

I think it will lead us to something where Shinae is the one playing the game the most openly - she's the one employed at the company, she's the one who is the direct adversary to Yui, who will be trying to no avail to try to break her, to get her to play the game her way, to try to convert her to her side. Meanwhile, I think Nol will operate from the shadows. They know of their own relationship, they know of their importance to each other, but perhaps others may not see it up front. Quimchee has a lot of Patreon art of Nol and Shinae that, quite frankly lmao, feels very much like it's Shinae in charge and Nol is here to do her bidding because he really doesn't care about anything else besides her LMAOOOOO idk maybe he WILL want revenge, especially if/when he learns that what happened to his mother may not have been simply her taking her own life. But I think their future dynamics will very much put Shinae at the forefront with Nol operating from the shadows, perhaps Shinae feeding him information so that he can work out of sight from people like Yui. That's not to say I think their relationship will be a secret or anything as much as just.... those who matter will probably know. There are a lot of benefits to them pointedly not revealing it to other people, right?

Something I think has been emphasized a lot in a lot of ILY art is that even if Nol and Shinae aren't directly connected, they're very often connected in SOME way - the earbuds binding them together, holding on to each other's fingers, Shinae's gaze on him. I think Stalkyoo will prove that they have a connection and understanding that goes deeper than a lot of people expect, and as such, they have confidence in each other, that they don't NEED to proudly display their relationship, and thus it will work to their advantage because we know Yui WILL try to divide them so it's better to keep things in the shadows, right?

My head is still really stuffy so this is not my BEST explanation, but hopefully this suffices! For now this is how I see things going down but, as always, we will possibly see this change with the coming episodes haha!

[trashlie]

Hi! I just want to bring up two details that I haven't seen anyone discuss from Ep182 and I would love to know what you think. I'm going to put the second detail in another ask because it's a spoiler from Ep197. Feel free to copy + paste it under the cut to this ask or answer it when it's publicly released.

1) Alyssa's interest when Minhyuk talked about his lunch squad. She met Nol, Dieter, and Soushi during their regular after school lunch dates! Originally, I thought that Nol reminded her of Shinae's genuine personality. But looking back at this Nol could've also reminded her of Minhyuk's easygoing personality or rather his popularity. Do you think this little bit of conversation had any affect on Alyssa's decision to befriend them? I guess I wonder if Alyssa values authenticity in people or if she simply wants friends for her own sake. 1/2

Hey Nonny! I looooove this question, thank you for bringing this up, because you are right, I have not seen it discussed, nor have I thought as deeply on it! Knowing that fandom has even drawn a lot of parallel between Nol and Minhyuk, you bring up a really interesting point to explore!

Part two of your ask is under the cut, so to anyone looking at this, there are spoilers for 197 following!

2) The fact that Minhyuk explained to Alyssa why he doesn't like his friends copying his homework. And then she went and did THAT! Shinae put so much effort into their project and got in trouble trying to get it back. Yet, Alyssa hadn't bothered to consult her or consider her feelings at all. Hell she even called the project "mine" and not "ours". I know her social skills are abysmal but she's just insensitive at this point. She didn't even apologize to Shinae for it and blamed her for the whole ordeal. It is so hard to root for Alyssa because I honestly don't know if she feels any remorse over how she treats others. 2/2

I thought that the flashback would help clear up Alyssa more for us, but it seems like we've just been more confused by her, right? I admit I try to remain optimistic, if only because I hope that there's more layers than I'd previously thought? And I do think we get that sense - just, you know, in a way that doesn't necessarily buy Alyssa any sympathy lol. I think there's a better understanding of some of her motives and reactions, but it still paints her in a very negative light.

I think something important to remember is that two opposite things can be very true. Alyssa can value both authenticity and also crave friendship for her own sake. I still think that's why she treated Shinae the way she did and seems to have developed a crush on her - because Shinae is just so authentic that it's hard to dislike her when you see that part of her, but it couldn't eclipse Alyssa's desire to be a part of something bigger, to have a group, which frankly is a very normalized notion of social life and something Alyssa didn't seem to have ever had before, right? So I think it's very possible - and likely - that Yeonggi could remind Shinae of his authenticity and Minhyuk in his easy-going likability, which frankly is a concept that really tickles me lol. Drawn to him because he possessed that easy nature of Minhyuk, the kind of person people just like because of his energy and that boyish charm, while lol ironically, reminding him of Shinae's earnest authenticity. I don't think it's by accident that young Shinae wore such bright, blinding smiles so similar to Yeonggi's, except that hers were real and true.

That said, yes, I've mused for a long time how much Alyssa actually liked their group, and as I've said, I know I'm often naively optimistic about her and I like to hope they were, even if for a short time, real friends to her, despite what we know, that once she became a trainee she seems to have stopped talking to them all. She also pointedly describes Yeonggi as a kid who you warm up to which.... lol. I mean, I guess Shinae, too, has essentially described him as someone who annoyed her until she warmed up to him, too, but Shinae isn't "dating" Nol, either. But with that in mind, yes, I think it's very possible that maybe the allure of being part of something, having a group of friends, being taken in by people was very alluring to her, even if she may not have had much in common with them. But I also can't help but feel that maybe there was something about how she perceived Nol that made her want to be a part of it, and maybe hope it could rub off on her, too. I don't think Alyssa accepted their friendship because they seemed popular as much as to be a part of something, to not be alone, but I guess we can also view it as when faced with a future that WOULD give her more popularity (legit fame) they were no longer necessary to her?

idk I waffle back and forth on her ALL the time and I think it's a matter of how two things can be true at the same time: that she does value these traits in people, but when faced with what she's coveted for so long, she's willing to let it go in order to obtain her goal? Or maybe she WANTED to hold on to both things and found out that she couldn't, and the one that required more attention was the one that better achieved her goal?

Much like Kousuke, though to a lesser degree, I think Alyssa is adequate at compartmentalization, and thus she confuses us and throws us off all the time. I think she does legitimately care about who she hurts, but I think she represses it deep down when it contrasts with her goals, and because of this compartmentalization, she has very Kousuke-like tendencies to try to control the narrative, to try to have the best of both worlds, to have her cake and eat it, too, but every time she attempts it, it blows up in her face, and when she's driven into a corner, she makes a choice that benefits her. Simply put, Alyssa has never learned to deal with the possibility that she cannot achieve all that she wants to and tries and tries until it blows up in her face.

Now that I've rambled a lot, I think this leads us nicely to your second point!

I think comparing that conversation to what played out with Alyssa and the assignment definitely just further cements their very different natures. Minhyuk is surrounded by people and he doesn't exactly have an alliance to any one group in particular. When his lunch squad wants to use him for his efforts, he doesn't want to spend his time with them. Alyssa cannot fathom this. I think part of it is because she's never HAD groups of friends and aches for it. To her, it sounds like a small price to pay to be surrounded by people I think it's a trade off for validation. The biggest difference, of course, is that Minhyuk is very confident, and because he doesn't have a necessary alliance to any one group of friends in particular, he's willing to cast off the ones who aren't truly his friends. If people stop seeing him for what he is because of his choice to remain friends with Shinae, then good riddance to them because they aren't truly his friends and don't truly like him, right? Alyssa lacks that confidence and spine. To her, that project was no big deal, easy work, they can always come up with something new and do even better, because in her mind, it's a fair trade off.

But you are right - that was Shiane's idea and Shinae also put in a lot of effort for it. She used her own meager allowance to print off those notes, she shadowed her dad's job even though she still had to go to school. And Alyssa doesn't acknowledge that. I think this is for two reasons: one, to her that effort is no big deal because she's pretty gifted and knows they can easily redo it and two, to her the trade off is worth it. The silly thing is, Alyssa doesn't think very far ahead. She thinks this is a one time transaction, that you give a little of your time and effort to someone and they'll do the same thing. But what would most likely happen is that girl would just continue to use Alyssa for help with school work, probably going as far as to get Alyssa to do more work for her, and in exchange, Alyssa would have only an empty, fake friendship that enriches nothing.

She just can't see or fathom that. To her, why would Minhyuk be bothered by having so many friends? Why would he want to get away from them? It's funny because isn't it very similar to Shinae and Alyssa regarding their families? Shinae cannot fathom what it's like to have both parents so deeply invested in your life and what you're doing and asking questions because she's got only one parent who is overworked and absorbed in his job + schooling + growing alcoholism. For her, how can parents being invested and indulging all of your whims be a bad thing? I think it's just a matter of the grass appearing greener on the other side. So when Minhyuk explains why he doesn't like people copying his homework, all Alyssa really gets out of it is "hey if you help people with their work, they will flock to you and be your friend" which lmao is exactly the OPPOSITE of what she should get out of it. But it's very similar to how Shinae visits Alyssa's house and thinks if this was her life, she'd never want to be in public school - because they each only see out of the other situation what they want. Shinae longs to not struggle, to have her needs met, and thinks that such a luxurious life would leave her wanting for nothing, with no issues to face. Alyssa longs to be a part of something bigger, to always be surrounded by friends, because surely if she was she wouldn't be filled with such loneliness and would learn to be comfortable in who she is, and therefore what's the harm of trading their project for friendship?

It's funny, that Alyssa is so afraid of bullying and ostracization, but she doesn't seem to have considered that not all friendship is genuine. She's willing to assimilate, to hide her true self, to accept fake friendship if it fills a lonely void, without considering how lonely that kind of "friendship" is. In her mind, being surrounded by people is the cure to what ails her, so she's never considered anything otherwise.

But yes, it's a selfish choice. She doesn't consider how Shinae would feel, or even ask if she'd like to give up their project. She just... goes and does it with the assumption that not only would Shinae understand, but that she might actually see the benefit, which is just... really rich of her. It's definitely a very selfish choice, motivated by what she gets out of it. Her current goal was a. to stay friends with Shinae while b. becoming popular, and she thought this was her how she could pull it off, until everything went awry when her plan blew up in her face. That said, I think she had every intention of telling Shinae about it except that her expectations were derailed. I don't think she ever thought about apologizing, though, because I don't think she thought it was a thing TO apologize for, and when she lost her opportunity to tell Shinae the truth, she blamed Shinae for making it into a bigger deal. And I guess, yeah, Shinae did make it into a bigger deal but... it wouldn't have happened if Alyssa had just never done that in the first place. From her perspective, Shinae did mess everything up, but there would have been nothing to mess up if she had not made that decision.

I want to reiterate that I do think Alyssa feels some kind of remorse, just because, I guess I'm dumb and hopeful lol, and I think she just compartmentalizes this? I like to hope that after blowing up on Shinae like this, Alyssa is probably feeling miserable, but too proud to go back on her word? Again, like Kousuke, when backed into a corner, Alyssa lashes out at everyone like a feral cat and she acts on her instinct of self-preservation and in that moment, the only way to save face was to throw Shinae under the bus. It's shitty and selfish and I just want to hope she regrets it and knows she's messed up badly, but that's just a hope at this point, I know. But I've definitely thought this of her arguments with Nol, too, that she responds like some feral, cornered cat when she can't continue to control the narrative and turns things on Nol (telling him he hasn't been the best boyfriend, lashing out on him for ruining her night at her agency party) where I THINK she probably feels some kind of regret later and just never acts on it. Alyssa knows when she hurts people and tries to deflect, so I think there's remorse buried deep deep under other complications she chooses to focus on instead?

That said, I can't blame anyone else who doesn't think this way! I think I continue to try to root for Alyssa because I WANT to see her change, but I still think it's going to require some kind of catalyst to get her there in the present. She has what she thought she wanted - an idol with adoring fans, fame that equates to popularity, and finds instead that she feels imprisoned. I think maybe it's there and she just hasn't reached the conclusion yet, and is continuing to lie to herself. Maybe she believes that the means will justify the ends and that in time she'll reach her true goal, but I think we all know that what she is receiving is a pale, watered down version of what she truly seeks. The only true friend Alyssa has is Meg, and Meg has her own life to live. Alyssa cannot expect people to fill a hollow void for her; that's something she has to learn to do through authentic means, and once, twice upon a time she had those opportunities and threw them all away.

And maybe that's what we're meant to learn about Alyssa - that she's so blinded by what she wants and craves that she's let herself get so deeply lost in it and her choices continue to haunt her. She could have had true friendship with Shinae, but was too blinded by popularity to hold on to it. She could have had true friendship with Nol and co, but she was too blinded by social prestige + her trainee life to expend the energy necessary to maintain that friendship. Her "relationship" with Nol exists only to serve their own individual needs not, and not out of any kind of true friendship anymore. Alyssa continues to trade ever true relationship for something that will never actually fulfil her, because she's still convinced that if she just reaches that goal it will be worth it, without coming to realize that she's wrong, that what she's been chasing is a hollow imitation of what she's thrown away over and over.

Please let me know more of what you think! I know I'm in a very small minority of those who try to see something more in Alyssa - or at least HOPE for her to finally acknowledge the way her choices affect others - so I don't expect anyone else to agree with those parts lol, that's more of something that I just always hope for, because it's what I want to see in her eventual development. I think I always wanted to believe that Yeonggi, Dieter, and Soushi meant something to Alyssa until she was faced with her trainee life, but you're right - perhaps it was always just the idea of belonging to a unit, rather than their friendship. Perhaps it was just Alyssa seeking comfort in finally feeling like she had a group, a squad, people who validated her rather than what they as her only friends in her very lonely life represented.