#but profoundly enough that she'd be a different person you know

[rearranging-deck-chairs]

wait just realised 12's sentiment toward clara "do you think i care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference" is probably basically what i have yaz do in my thasmissy fic. "im with you, whatever happens"

[septembersghost]

Do you think when they were together-ish(anything from 2012-15) Taylor and harry ever confided their traumas with each other or were completely open with each other about their past? I think harry was judging by the sheer vulnerability in his songs. But do you think taylor ever was? There are hints he knew more(he's gonna say its 'love' you never called it what it was// 'love' was something you never heard enough). She said she got Jake's mail regarding red when she was dating harry. She cried during 'all too well' in 2014 june when she was close to harry. So do you think she ever opened up about jake?

On that note, do you think they ever talked about kanye,john stuff. She went through hell because of ye and I don't think WCS feelings developed overnight. How do you think all of this affected their relationship? Was harry ever jealous of jake because Taylor loved him?Or did he think he was a d___ for treating her like shit? (We know harry easily gets jealous)

not in an unkind way, but in a general one, i don't think taylor was capable of verbalizing the depth of her trauma until now. she literally had to find safety and healing to begin to express it. they both pour things into their music that they probably only felt able to say there, because that form is confessional and the safe place to explore it. it's not that i don't think she shared anything, of course, but i doubt she had the language at that time to even explain it all, and she was trying so hard to gloss over it, to make it all seem fine, to pack it away, to seem nonchalant (which doesn't work in the long run). and harry wasn't nearly at the place he is now in regards to the philosophical outlook and open approach to therapy. there was a lot of common ground between them at their levels of fame and coming up in the industry, and regarding musicianship, emotional sensitivity, etc, but there were barriers too. i'm sure he knew she'd been deeply heartbroken, idk how far into that she would've been willing to share at that point, though. especially since they got stuck in that on/off cycle, so many factors kept intruding and coming between them, including their own issues at that point. knowing someone was hurt and didn't feel loved is a little different from knowing how profoundly broken they felt as a human being. doubtless harry thought jake was terrible for that, but it's hard to say how far into the pain and belittlement she would've gone. or taking the john issue, what's shattering there is she believed she'd escaped it (i took your matches before fire could catch me), and now she realizes she didn't and it's had a lasting effect. and then with k*nye at that point in time, she was striving to make peace and be friends with him. i saw a quote from...2015 earlier today, let me see if i can find it again. "we actually, i guess, could be called friends now! i honestly think i needed to continue to prove myself in my career and i think it finally got to a place where he realized he respected what i do as a musician." she just so badly wanted his approval and wanted to make things okay that i don't think she'd have said anything negative about him at the time, which is...very upsetting considering how that ultimately went (and the type of person he has proven himself to be in general).

this is really sad and telling of her mindset at that time too, she didn't really think she was allowed or deserved love: "Yeah, I do feel jaded about relationships, to be honest. I think the media has sent me a really unfair message over the past couple of years, which is that I'm not allowed to date for excitement, or fun, or new experiences or learning lessons. I'm only allowed to date if it's for a lasting, multiple-year relationship. Otherwise I'm a, quote, 'serial dater'. Or, quote, 'boy crazy'. The narrative has been so wrong, every time it was the same. It's 'Taylor spotted talking to this guy, she's chasing him.' They create a beginning to the story that didn't happen most of the time, so then they have to create an ending. So they always go to the same fabricated ending that every other tabloid has used in my story, which is, 'She got too clingy', or 'Taylor has too many emotions, she scared him away'. Which has honestly never been the reason for any of my break-ups. You know what has been the reason? The media. You take something very fragile, like trying to get to know someone, and it feels like walking out into the middle of a gladiator arena with someone you've just met. And all of a sudden the public and the media are allowed to say thumbs up or thumbs down. So I just don't try it any more."

[mxdam]

to really understand marg you have to go back to her mother, helena.

i've been writing margarethe since 2014ish and her mother is still pretty opaque to me as a person. i only know what she did, not per se why she did it, and the emotional role she played in marg's life. i can make guesses but that's about it.

helena was a very strong woman married to a very weak man. she married jakob and moved to his home country and found herself stuck in a situation that her strategic and highly structured mind couldn't accept: she was no longer an agent. she was home decor; she was an object. when she gave birth to her first child, marg's older brother willem, she was in need, i think, of an ally, someone to trust with everything she couldn't give to her husband. she made her eldest child that repository of her dreams, her needs, and her love, such as it was.

her second child, margarethe, fulfilled a different emotional need. she needed a scapegoat. she needed someone to hurt. it's a sad truth that the disempowered will turn to their families to enact the control they lack in other arenas of their life; helena was one such, a mother who used her power over her dependent children for her own emotional purposes. to margarethe, she was always cold and remote. she was never comforting, loving, kind, or complimentary. she had no interest in margarethe except as an object used for the following purposes 1) to fulfill her own emotional needs (to hurt others) 2) to make herself look good 3) to benefit the family somehow, the family being an extension of helena herself.

she "adultified" margarethe from an early age. she demanded self-control of which no child is capable. no emotion margarethe felt was acceptable. pain, rage, sorrow were all treated as choices margarethe made specifically to inconvenience and annoy her mother. she also sexualized child margarethe in ways that were disturbing, implying to margarethe that she enjoyed male attention and actively invited male sexual desire before she'd even gone through puberty.

willem was an additional weapon in helena's arsenal. himself "adultified" into a role as man of the house--long before they'd ever left jakob's household, in fact--he was also a victim of emotional incest from his mother, who demanded emotional intimacy from him in a way no child should have to fulfill. he harmed margarethe physically multiple times throughout their childhoods; bigger and stronger than her, he was indifferent and did not consider her suffering real, because that was what his mother had taught him.

margarethe has always perceived a conspiracy between her mother and brother. she understands, even if dimly, that they are two sides of the same blade. she is not, frankly, introspective nor emotionally intelligent enough to see the ways helena's actions also impacted willem; but that being said, she is their victim, and in this case empathy shouldn't be required of her.

in the 2015 movie there is a scene where ella and her father talk privately about their grief for ella's mother and agree to always keep the house in her memory. margarethe is standing outside the room, silently listening. this moment is profoundly triggering for her on the basis of the "conspiracy" she believes she sees between ella and her father: triggering because a theme of her life has been the actions of others to work together to isolate and harm her. almost instantly in the movie, she acts to defuse this conspiracy, to take away ella's prime position in the home and disempower her in order to protect herself.

[mylordshesacactus]

Have you ever thought about the idea of Qui-Gon training Barriss? I feel like she'd have been a lot happier with him. He's so chill.

Because of…who we are as people…me and @alexkablob have had long discussions about how different Masters and their approaches might have affected Barriss.

The tl;dr here is that the best I can say is Qui-Gon wouldn’t be the worst option.

This is gonna get long, I apologize. You prompted me about Jedi apprenticeship AND the flaws of the Code in allowing Masters and Padawans to communicate effectively AND Barriss and Luminara’s specific relationship, anon, you asked for this.

So the central Thing here is Barriss Offee as a person. She’s extremely anxious, eager to please to the point where it becomes pathological, quiet, responsible, whip-smart, a healer, and she absolutely cannot improvise; if she has a plan she’ll execute it, but she cannot plan on the fly under pressure, this is consistent.

Keeping these things in mind:

Luminara is, frankly, the perfect match for her. They have a similar, methodical approach; Luminara is a strategic analyst for the Republic, and her skill for putting together strong, well-thought-out plans is perfectly in sync with Barriss’ own preference for advance planning and anxiety about winging it. Being paired with her allows Barriss to have the intellectual challenges she needs and the ability to pursue her talents; Luminara has total faith in Barriss’ proven abilities and doesn’t hesitate to provide her with praise for those abilities and opportunities to use them. She’s also a calm, gentle, soft-spoken individual with a profoundly reassuring aura who demonstrates throughout her (few) appearances that she greatly values the lives of those under her command. She has a sense of humor that’s very present without being loud or jocular in a way that would make Barriss uncomfortable (ie, Anakin) and she has the emotional intelligence to tease Barriss only very gently, never touching her insecurities, and to nudge her into making friends.

Now, some of these things inadvertently worsen Barriss’ issues. That confident “she can do it” attitude ends up placing far too much pressure on her; Luminara’s very competence and grace end up fermenting into Barriss’ feelings of inadequacy and desperation to not disappoint her master. But that’s….almost entirely because of the war. It’s the nature of the assignments, not their difficulty, that breaks her; and in a time of peace, with more access to her master and time to process, I think they would have been lessened.

Their downfall as a master-apprentice pair wasn’t that Barriss had the wrong Master. Luminara’s own issues, namely her devotion to the Code and her own pathological fear of giving into attachment, were what tripped them up. She loves Barriss so much but is so focused on not giving in to those emotions that she rarely if ever allows herself to act on them at all, even when she should–with the result that she keeps Barriss at arm’s length and they’re too formal with each other. She’s so afraid of becoming too close that she doesn’t let herself get close enough to notice that anything’s wrong, or to make sure Barriss realizes how deeply she’s loved–and on top of that, once the war starts Barriss and Luminara are almost never together. She’s separated from her Master when she needs her most, and that was the nail in the coffin.

Basically: Luminara didn’t give her those issues. And for the most part, when they were actually able to work together as master and apprentice, Luminara mitigated a lot of Barriss’ flaws while encouraging her strengths. The war found the pressure points in their bond and pushed until they snapped, but it would do that with ANY pairing.

So if anyone hasn’t already scrolled past this long rambling bit of nonsense, under the cut please enjoy a bullet-point list of our thoughts on how Barriss would fare under different Masters. 

Anakin:

Disaster.

Just….pure, unmitigated disaster. If they didn’t drive each other into a murderous rage they’d just dissolve into mutual anxiety attacks

He’s too impulsive and careless, she’s too hesitant and not nearly bold enough, he’s emotive and incapable of controlling his temper to the point he would genuinely scare her

They already don’t get along particularly well, there’s a reason Barriss is so spiteful toward him in TWJ; force her into a position where he has boundless authority over her and one of them is getting smothered to death in his sleep.

I say “he” because it would 100% be Anakin

Obi-Wan:

On the surface, this seems like it would be a much better match, maybe even ideal.

It is not

It is not remotely a good match

Here’s the thing people misunderstand all the time about Obi-Wan’s character: he and Anakin are very similar.

Obi-Wan is just as much of a cowboy Jedi as Anakin ever was; he’s impulsive, easily goaded, and frequently hypocritical about the Jedi Code, and he has all of Luminara’s flaws on top of that.

So now you have a version of Barriss whose master is equally unwilling to acknowledge his own emotions and equally incapable of showing or admitting to his padawan that he cares about her, but also is unpredictable, too controlling, swings between overprotective and seemingly uncaring, cares too much about what the Council will think of him, rarely if ever explains why he gives certain commands or thinks certain things, and occasionally loses his temper.

Above anything else, at least with Luminara, Barriss never has any uncertainty as to where she stands or what is expected of her.

Obi-Wan attempting to train Barriss would be better for exactly one person and that is Obi-Wan.

Plo Koon:

Not gonna lie, Barriss could do worse

Like, they’re not a good match, exactly? They have basically nothing in common. But I don’t think he’d do more harm than good.

Unfortunately “better than Anakin Skywalker” does not a training bond make.

Like Luminara, he has that steady and soothing presence that makes your heart rate settle just from being near him. He’s calm, he’s quiet, he’s deliberate. He values the lives of those around him. He’s firm but fair, and not so married to the Code that he lets it stop him from being kind.

In some ways, Plo would be very good for her. He is certainly not afraid of his own emotions; he’s very much from the “emotion, yet peace” school of Jedi philosophy, and we see him several times calmly, verbally assuring people he cares about of that care. That would do a world of good for Barriss’ inferiority complex. 

A model of “I can feel these things without that meaning I am doomed to fall, because feelings and actions are not the same thing, and I can control how I act” could also do a lot of good…in peacetime. 

In war, I think that model would fail as surely as Luminara’s attempts to do the same thing. We know she subscribes to this same philosophy, and the fact is that there was a war on and Barriss was as good as a Knight and the best model in the galaxy is no good if he’s not there. 

And ultimately, in a lot of other ways, Plo Koon would be a terrible match for Barriss. He’s…too much of a “take a deep breath and take your time” mentor, for someone like her who learns quickly and thoroughly and needs mental challenges and puzzles.

She’s also still a strategist and advance planner, and Plo is a mechanic and a fighter pilot. He’d either be too “don’t think just act, improvise, split-second decisions” or she would chafe and get frustrated, and frankly be bored to tears, with Plo’s slow and steady approach. Either too intense or not intense enough; they’re a bad combination, though I do think they’d get along very well as colleagues and friends. Just not an apprenticeship.

Like honestly the main issue here is that he’s too similar to Luminara in the ways that would let him function well with Barriss and she has a lot more of those qualities than he does.

Aayla Secura:

I mean…I guess?

Aayla’s a bit of a random choice I just like her. I really don’t think they’d get along well at all.

Barriss would certainly get the mental exercise she needs with Aayla, there’d be supply challenges and tactical lessons, and those clearly-worded expectations would be there as another positive, but…

Aayla’s a good Jedi, a good leader, she’d have made an excellent Master

Just not to Barriss Offee.

She’s a little too brisk, a little too hard around the edges. In short, a little too much of a soldier and a little too close to the “okay now get over it” school of Jedi philsophy to work well with someone as insecure and anxious as Barriss.

Shaak Ti:

Look, let’s be frank here. Luminara is Barriss’ master because she’s meant to be, it’s a universal constant. Anything else is just wrong.

But if Barriss were to have a different Master, my vote would be Shaak Ti.

Again, this is because in a lot of ways she’s similar to Luminara, and there’s a REASON Barriss is Luminara Unduli’s padawan.

Shaak Ti is soft-spoken and kind. Reassuring. She speaks calmly, doesn’t raise her voice except to be heard from a distance, protects and cares for those beneath her.

She’s gentle but firm when necessary; but also more focused on the spirit of the law than the letter. She’s reasonable. She knows when and how to bend rules in the interest of doing the right thing.

She’s a little more centered and self-accepting than Luminara; she trusts her instincts as well as her judgement, rather than desperately suppressing her emotions. She doesn’t let the people around her get away with hiding their thoughts, either.

She listens, and she thinks before she speaks or acts. That would be good, for Barriss Offee The Obsessive Planner.

But again, this isn’t an ideal pairing. While I’m sure Shaak Ti would find and encourage ways for Barriss to learn and grow–and apprenticing under a Council member often stationed on Kamino would be a fantastic opportunity to solve and learn logistics and interpersonal problems, and a great chance to train as a healer properly–I think she might be a little too centered.

Barriss’ insecurities aren’t going away. Her mind works quickly, she overthinks, she doubts. While Shaak Ti is a phenomenal listener, she’s also…imposing, even more than Luminara, and she doesn’t have as easy a sense of humor. She’s very regal, very focused.

A model that encourages Barriss to be more serious, to spend even more time inside her own head, is the last thing she needs.

Qui-Gon:

Literally the only thing you asked, anon, I’m deeply sorry.

I’m also sorry to say this but I think Qui-Gon Jinn would be a TERRIBLE master for Barriss “made of insecurities” Offee

Qui-Gon Jinn has the least chill of anyone in the galaxy.

Qui-Gon is, in fact, the kind of guy who drags a nine-year-old slave from Tatooine to a desert world, plops him in front of the Jedi Council, and openly says "this is the Chosen One, he will save us all, his name’s Anakin by the way.”

Barriss feels crushing pressure to be Good Enough To Meet Her Master’s Expectations when her master is Luminara and the expectations are “fulfill this specific mission with minimal casualties and come home alive”. She does not need Qui-Gon Jinn in her life.

I don’t think his...near-dismissal of people around him worrying over the future, would be good for Barriss either? Like sure, on the one hand, someone gently telling her to focus on the present and embrace the Living Force is good. But Luminara did actually teach her how to meditate, and the problem here is that Barriss’ concerns are valid. 

There is a point at which “trust in the Force, a solution will present itself” is no longer acceptable advice, and that point is probably somewhere around Umbara.

In fact, far from his chill, the only argument I can think of in favor of pairing him with Barriss is his willingness to challenge the Council. Showing her that the Council can be wrong, and that she can disagree with authority without being a Sith? That could have been incredibly valuable.

However that only works if she otherwise feels connected to him, and I don’t...think she would. Qui-Gon is kind of incredibly insensitive for someone who constantly talks about being mindful of the present; the arrogance and detachment of the Jedi is kind of a major theme of TPM. I think her timidity would frustrate him more than inspire him to compassion, and I very much think his advice about her anxieties and insecurities would be that old Jedi mainstay “well stop being anxious” ie, You Must Trust In The Force.

Ultimately I really do think that Luminara is the best option for Barriss. That’s part of what makes the failure of their bond so tragic.