#but rather that even if such was his intention that GRRM barely even bothered you know?

[waitingforsecretsouls]

Much as I theoretically understand why fandom glomped onto the possibility of the tragic Daeron and Addam romance, it genuinely doesn't seem like the closest explanation the text itself offers. One of the biggest implications people see for this is the paragraph wondering about Tessarion's motivations for intervening in the Vermithor vs Seasmoke fight:

Vermithor’s size and weight were too much for Seasmoke to contend with, Lord Blackwood told Grand Maester Munkun many years later, and he would surely have torn the silver-grey dragon to pieces…if Tessarion had not fallen from the sky at that very moment to join the fight. Who can know the heart of a dragon? Was it simple bloodlust that drove the Blue Queen to attack? Did the she-dragon come to help one of the combatants? If so, which? Some will claim that the bond between a dragon and dragonrider runs so deep that the beast shares his master’s loves and hates. But who was the ally here, and who the enemy? Fire & Blood Chapter 17: The Dying of the Dragons — Rhaenyra Overthrown

People tend to focus a lot on the love aspect and basically ignore the alternate possibility offered up, which is hate as a motivating force.

As happy as I am for people enjoying the concept of Daeron/Addam, let's acknowledge that they have neither actual on page interactions nor as much as implied aquaintanceship, and GRRM is the opposite of subtle when it comes to "hinting" at these things for implied same sex entanglements. One line about Addam, who canonically served on his mothers trading cogs, having previously traveled as far as Oldtown, or Daeron enjoying spending his off - time at Oldtown's or prior to his fostering King's Landings harbour or shipyards would have been sufficient, but instead there's absolutely nothing.

Whereas Daeron and Hugh Hammer, dragonseed and rider of Vermithor, do have canonical interactions, both on page involving dialogue and implied by their close proximity, that develops into a plot relevant enmity, culminating in Hugh stating he'll claim Daeron's birthright for himself, as rider of the largest surviving dragon, and Daeron approving the Caltrops assassination of Hugh in turn.

With his brother Aemond slain as well, the greens found themselves kingless and leaderless. Prince Daeron stood next in the line of succession. Lord Peake declared that the boy should be proclaimed as Prince of Dragonstone at once; others, believing Aegon II dead, wished to crown him king. The Two Betrayers felt the need of a king as well…but Daeron Targaryen was not the king they wanted. “We need a strong man to lead us, not a boy,” declared Hard Hugh Hammer. “The throne should be mine.” When Bold Jon Roxton demanded to know by what right he presumed to name himself a king, Lord Hammer answered, “The same right as the Conqueror. A dragon.” And truly, with Vhagar dead at last, the oldest and largest living dragon in all Westeros was Vermithor, once the mount of the Old King, now that of Hard Hugh the bastard. Vermithor was thrice the size of Prince Daeron’s she-dragon Tessarion. No man who glimpsed them together could fail to see that Vermithor was a far more fearsome beast. [...] The lords and knights of Oldtown and the Reach were offended by the arrogance of the Betrayer’s claim, however, and none more so than Prince Daeron Targaryen himself, who grew so wroth that he threw a cup of wine into Hard Hugh’s face. (...) Lord Hammer said, “Little boys should be more mannerly when men are speaking. I think your father did not beat you often enough. Take care I do not make up for his lack.” The Two Betrayers took their leave together, and began to make plans for Hammer’s coronation. When seen the next day, Hard Hugh was wearing a crown of black iron, to the fury of Prince Daeron and his trueborn lords and knights.

[...] Though Prince Daeron was not present at the council, the Caltrops (as the conspirators became known) were loath to proceed without his consent and blessing. Owen Fossoway, Lord of Cider Hall, was dispatched under cover of darkness to wake the prince and bring him to the cellar, that the plotters might inform him of their plans. Nor did the once-gentle prince hesitate when Lord Unwin Peake presented him with warrants for the execution of Hard Hugh Hammer and Ulf White, but eagerly affixed his seal. Fire & Blood Chapter 17: The Dying of the Dragons — Rhaenyra Overthrown

Which seams like a far more (meaning: at all) established backdrop for that musing about sharing loves and hates to me.

Tldr; Less "love wins" and more "haterism transcending death" for Daeron the Daring.

[sayruq]

I was stalking your sansa tag, and I'm wondering, do you still agree with: post/166040094770/could-you-expand-on-why-you-think-grrm-agrees-with especially the part about the redemption arc? I don't think sansa needs redemption. antis do tho, and I think that comes from a combination of their biases and the biases present in the writing. but do you think grrm thought she needed redemption? I feel like there are clearly certain traits and attitudes he likes in female characters, which feels unfair

i don’t agree with the term redemption arc- it’s a little too harsh and it’s incorrect. i feel like ‘baptism with fire’ is more apt. every stark suffers but i don’t see grrm turning the things they loved against them like he does sansa. she believed in the faith but the sept has been ruined for her so she finds solace in the godswood. she wanted a fairytale marriage with a prince but joffrey was a monster and she was married against her will. she loved pretty dresses but as a hostage, she barely got any to the point where she was outgrowing them. then when she escaped, she couldn’t wear any because she’s pretending to be a bastard. she liked music but she was forced to sing for a man who was hiding in her room with the intention of raping her and later a singer tried to rape her and he aided in an attempt on her life. there’s a place for arcs like this but with sansa it feels excessive.  it feels so targeted to bring sansa to closer to the ‘northern ideal.’

the thing is grrm did end up liking sansa in her first chapter which is why he expanded her role and he settled on her as the queen in the north but it took a while before she became a character he loved. hence the ‘baptism with fire’ aspect of the last chapters of agot and all of acok. at least from asos, while horrible things happen to sansa, she has some breathing room. her chapters are a touch lighter and more hopeful and they seem more purposeful. her acok served a purpose as far as sansa’s character development goes but they also expanded king’s landing under war which made them so dark.

still it’s rather obvious that he doesn’t respect agot sansa or any other noble lady with the exception of catelyn (and even then he respects his male characters more). when he spoke of basing sansa on traditional housewives, he sounded so dismissive. this is why he didn’t bother fleshing out what noble women do until much later in the series. it’s like he felt they were frivolous and not as interesting as the men in his story or women who hold positions associated with men. it’s why we don’t know what a khaleesi’s job in the khalasar is but we get a lot of information of dany’s wars and rule as queen. same with cersei, we don’t see what she does as queen consort until she’s queen regnant. it’s even more annoying with catelyn because he does respect her but not enough to show what she’s good at outside of her role as adviser. 

sansa is obviously a talented kid but because noble women are presented as only useful in the birthing bed, sansa’s talent is reduced to the many hobbies that she has, rather than the education she must have received and done well at. it’s no surprise that we finally get a proper look at women’s work in alayne stone’s chapters when grrm has grown to love sansa. in those chapters, despite being a hostage for years, sansa is able to slip into the role of lady of the eyrie quite easily. no wonder that most fans think she became smarter later in the series despite being shown to be intelligent early on.

so i don’t agree with the redemption arc, i just think grrm is writing sansa to become more ‘practical’ in his eyes but that’s not always a good thing. i’m fine with sansa’s leadership arc but i think grrm was too harsh in her early chapters.