#cradle runnerpost

[somerunner]

Alright, so for a brief rundown of some of what I *think* the themes of Cradle and The Last Horizon are:

Cradle -- with enough power, you can do almost anything, but not everything. Also, the society mirrors an exaggerated version of capitalism where economic and political power are interchangeable at the highest levels, that power is half-created by being a "big player" who has more leverage to create wealth, and half-taken from those below you; also also, it's a somewhat-meritocracy where talent is rewarded, but only if you're exceptionally lucky -- by running into resources yourself, or getting a sponsor who is willing to commit Big Nepotism. Finally, there will always be problems with big enough systems -- but you can still change them to be better -- and change can cost unimaginable resources and lives. There are more themes than this, but these are the ones I'd remark on.

The Last Horizon -- there are always fires to put out, and you can't go wrong trying to put them out. And people will always get in your way of putting out those fires because they personally benefit from them, and also because they value their autonomy or something.

The Last Horizon is much shorter than Cradle, on account of being ongoing and also just being a more streamlined story, and its setting being less possible to twist into a real-world allegory. But it is also true that I haven't examined either story deeply, and could stand to do some more in-depth analysis.

Anyway. Enjoy the crumbs, fellow Cradle and TLH mutuals.

[somerunner]

So I don't disagree with most of this -- Cradle is anti-capitalist and anti-conservative, and your characterizations of the Monarchs are accurate, although I disagree about the Reaper division and have some further thoughts about the Monarchs.

First off, the further thoughts (because I don't want to come right out of the gate with my disagreements): we got the histories of each of the Monarchs. Shen advanced to gain more power. Northstrider advanced to survive. Seshethkunaaz, Malice, Emriss, Tiberian and Sha Miara advanced to protect their peoples. Most of them started as good people. And then they stayed, because they didn't want to leave the top.

I think one of the biggest critiques that Cradle holds for capitalism and conservatism is that these systems favor those on the top; that being on the top requires selfishness and exploitation. The Monarchs care about their people, but not enough to give up their spots as the most powerful people in the room.

As for my disagreements -- when I read Waybound, I didn't feel that the Reapers solved anything. The damage done while changing the system, and the new system itself, make me feel that barely anybody won from this exchange (except maybe Lindon and company). Maybe it's because Northstrider's one of my favorite characters, but I can't help agreeing with him -- the system was an imperfect solution with minimally better substitutes in sight.

The thing is, the two biggest problems in Cradle's world were kicked off by the Dreadgods. First, Judge intervention in Skysworn made it so that the established method of "get out of the Dreadgods' way" didn't work. Second, when that one crucial linchpin in the labyrinth fell down, the world began to fall apart.

Killing the Dreadgods and forcing the Monarchs out of Cradle didn't solve the problem of territory disputes (of which there are presumably many, as there were during canon); it did solve dreadbeast and Dreadgod attacks, but I imagine there's a number of new threats that will be comparable. Northstrider and Sha Liala fought seriously tough battles against non-Monarch, non-Dreadgod threats, which means that Cradle's population may struggle against these things without Monarchs to keep them in check.

There's more upward mobility in Cradle's society now, but at a massive cost, and with no narrative-guarantee that it was worth the trade.

Oh damn has it really been that long since I’ve posted? Whelp *cracks knuckles* time to go have some strong opinions on the internet!

Cradle is anti-capitalist and anti-conservative and I’m tired of pretending it’s not. I’m sure I’m not the first person to say this, but it’s my blog so fuck you.

(Leftist ramblings below the read more. You have been warned)

Set in a world where strength is the measure of wealth in a very literal sense, the thesis of the Cradle Series is that there is a certain level of wealth that cannot be obtained and maintained without actively and continuously harming the world around you. More than that, each of the monarchs represent different flavors of conservatism.

Regan Shen is your typical billionaire, throwing scales at problems until they go away. He is obsessed with legacy as wealthy men often are, and strives to be remembered as the greatest monarch to ever live (*cough* Elon *cough cough*). Like his muskrat counterpart he will willingly align himself with whatever movement serves his goals at the present moment and then discard them as soon as their usefulness has ended. He has no real values or principles beyond building his own legend.

Seshethkunaaz very overtly represents the “social Darwinist” a la Senator Armstrong. His whole thing is the strong eat the weak. The other monarchs don’t actually disagree with him on a philosophical level they just don’t like that their group is that one getting eaten. He’s a libertarian through and through, but at least he’s honest about it I guess?

Akura Malice is the “family values” conservative. Malice is a being of spite and bitterness, someone who demands not just love and respect but control. Much like a conservative patriarch much closer to home, she doesn’t love her family so much as she owns and controls her family. This control is supposedly “for their own good” but Malice has demonstrated a willingness to kill her own children and grandchildren to maintain her control, completely undermining her whole argument.

Northstrider is the “anti-authoritarian” conservative, with all the hypocrisy inherent to that idea. He fundamentally rejects the idea that others might know better than him and refuses to be beholden to anyone. He claims to have no ties to the world and yet leads just as many people as the other monarchs. He refuses to participate in the society that he has so much control over except to get something for himself and denies responsibility for the problems he his actively perpetuating. He may have started out wanting what’s best for the world but he let his fear and inferiority complex drag him into stagnation anyways.

Sha Miara is the “old money” conservative. She’s not really “evil” per-say, she’s rich and lacks perspective. Also, she’s like 16 (kung-fu memory transfer technique aside) so it wouldn’t be very fair to judge her for her opinions just yet, but she’s definitely that one girl everyone knew in high school who doesn’t understand that poor people can’t just go get food from the fridge if they’re hungry.

Tiberian is a demonstration that the system is self perpetuating. Even one at the top, ostensibly one of the ones running the whole thing, can’t overturn the system on his own. His attempts to change the world for the betterment of the common people are met with instant and violent rejection by the first person he approaches. There’s an argument to be made that if he’d approached one of the other monarchs it would have gone differently, but I suspect the result would have been the same. Each of the monarchs are so entrenched in their own ideologies that there would be no reasoning with them, with one exception.

Emriss Silentborn is a socialist/communist (she’s not actually in the books that much so I’m not certain) and got assassinated for it. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that given her desire to “freely distribute the secrets of the sacred arts” in a world where sacred arts = literal money. We don’t get much of her character, but she seems to care deeply about sustainability which, given that she’s a tree, makes sense. A world in which the strong eat the weak and nothing else simply isn’t sustainable in the long term.

Then along comes the Reaper Division, a group of people with enough strength (read wealth) to overturn the whole damn thing and the strength of character to actually do it. They force the other monarchs to either give up their power or have it taken from them. Lindon then sets up a system to ensure that no individual can horde power (wealth) to that degree again for the foreseeable future. Inequality still exists on Cradle, but at least the billionaires aren’t melting the icecaps anymore!

TL;DR Cradle says “Viva La Revolution!”

[somerunner]

Thinking of a point-of-divergence timeline where Yerin learned a hunger technique/used a hunger construct in Reaper/Dreadgod, getting used to hunger earlier and standing on a level with Lindon.

She spent some time with the Eight-Man Empire in Dreadgod, hunting down various monsters left in the wake of the Bleeding Phoenix — Blood Shadows, mostly, but some others. She could have taken the blood/hunger (and sword) madra from them, drawn more power out, gotten to Archlord and peak Herald earlier.

And the best part of this idea is, to me, that she would be more vulnerable to the Phoenix. And here is where she ascends to Monarch — by commanding a division between herself and the Phoenix, obtaining the Sword Icon. There’s a lot of cool uses for this Icon that we never got to see in canon, and I think this would really fit.

In canon, Lindon is already a master Soulsmith, and on top of that surpasses Yerin in combat ability by the last two books (and un-Enforced strength??). It works, but I’d like to see them stand equal. Frankly, Lindon getting massive doses of strength from his diet (book 5 eating poisonous carp, book 8 eating Crusher) feels like a massive disservice to the others. Yerin got a few really useful things from the Uncrowned King tournament that should have catapulted her own development as well. And I know Lindon’s thing is advancing at full speed, but considering how much time he’s got to spend Soulsmithing, I think Yerin should at least keep pace in terms of advancement. (Sorry to Mercy who’s just left in the dust in this hypothetical)

I’ll actually fold this into the same alternate timeline where she gets her completed sword madra pill at the end of book 3.

[somerunner]

Every time I get notes on my Cradle posts I remember that was half of why I joined Tumblr.

So, since I’m not feeling particularly brainy right now, I’ll just paste and re-edit something I’ve said off Tumblr here, about the Iron Body advancement. We have a few important mentions, such as Lindon’s Bloodforged Iron Body and Yerin’s Steelborn Iron Body, but the others also support this idea as far as I can tell.

I think Iron Bodies are (in addition to setting a spiritual and physical foundation for later advancement stages) full-body Enforcer techniques with no Path/madra-type requirement, and no need for concentration.

In the text, all of the Iron Bodies could all be conceivably be replaced with an Enforcer technique, it's just that the practitioners usually have the wrong Path or madra type to be able to do that technique. For example: Yerin, with Endless Sword madra, has no self-Enforcement technique because Tim said the Path doesn't have any good ones (i.e. the madra won't work for it all that well). So the Steelborn Iron body does it for her. Lindon has pure madra, which affects the spirit and isn't great at affecting the body, and Blackflame madra, which is even worse for the body. So the Bloodforged Iron body fulfills the function of a regeneration-boosting Enforcer technique, which neither of those madra types could do. etc. etc. for all the other Iron bodies mentioned in the text.

[somerunner]

So, I can’t draw. But I’d like to make a comic detailing the scene in The Captain where Raion takes one swing at the Behemoth, it doesn’t work and he nods saying “as expected,” and Varic thinks internally “don’t nod!!”

Add that to my other comic idea of the scene in Bloodline, of Dross saying “East! East!” right before Malice’s arrow rockets past the ship at Mach 2.

Maybe also Lindon saying innocently, “shake on it?” And Northstrider looking at his hunger-arm with disgust.

[somerunner]

I haven't seen any depiction of these two before but I love them here. Is the prompt here from the phrase "get out of Dodge"? Since that's what Jai Long is always trying to do, but Dodge (the Jai clan, other dangers, etc.) always finds him somehow.

Cradle Inktober Day 4 : Dodge : Jai Siblings

[somerunner]

I wonder what Northstrider would do on a world with no geographic or magnetic north. Then I remember he’s called Northstrider because he goes north to find strong opponents.

What would he do on a world where the distribution of strong enemies is completely uniform? Worse yet, what if the “strong enemy” density function depends on longitude and with a slight emphasis on the equator? Would he be known as “Timezone Strider”?

[somerunner]

6. Geisha meets Jaran

(whatever context you like)

Gesha meets Jaran

Fisher Gesha had advanced to Truegold during her time in the Blackflame Empire. Her family had migrated with her and integrated into the empire, no longer scraping by in the Desolate Wilds. No, now they were being paid for fulfilling services and responsibilities left behind by the collapsing Jai clan.

Because she had followed an Arelius Underlord's whims, her family was now rather prosperous. She had access to Soulsmithing research that was normally kept secret. The only thing she was missing was that mind-spirit attached to the Wei clan boy, Lindon.

She did wonder what happened to him after the Uncrowned King tournament. Reportedly, the Wandering Titan woke up and attacked his home, and he got them out. Then he founded a sect, called himself a Sage, and led it himself.

She had to find the Arelius man's ear to confirm that one. It seemed that the real one behind the sect was the Arelius Underlord. Well, Archlord now. He didn't scare her all that much anymore, either because he was too busy or because she had gotten used to his antics. Now, she was usually the one hounding him.

Right now, she was asking for Lindon. She was working on a particularly difficult Soulsmithing project and could use some simulation work. Mister sees-everything didn't respond to her, though, so she looked for the next person she could find.

Surprisingly, she came across Lindon's father. He was at the market for Soulsmithing tools and parts, same as her. She only recognized him because of the scowl on his face, so similar to his son's. She confirmed it by asking if he knew the boy. "I'm looking for a boy named Lindon, do you know him? Has a white arm, looks like you?" She neglected to mention he was the leader of the Twin Star sect. Everyone in this city knew that already.

He turned to face her fully. "Huh? You're looking for Lindon? That boy really does get into too much trouble. Your best bet is with the Twin Star Sect, but I can pass along a message if you're in a hurry." He shifted his weight as he spoke, trying to get comfortable with standing still. He had Remnant eyes, and he seemed to be in the process of getting used to them. And maybe a Remnant leg, judging by his gait.

She snorted. "Oh, I'm not settling a debt with him. I need some Soulsmithing help, and he's the only one I trust to do the job right. Without paying through the nose, that is. I taught him, you know?"

His face shifted off from its scowl. "Oh, you're his Soulsmithing master? He said something about that. I hope he wasn't too much trouble. He's a frustrating student. He's my son, in fact, so I taught him when he was young." He neglected to mention how little he had actually taught Lindon of the sacred arts. His wife, Wei Shi Seisha, would consider him a model student.

Internally, Fisher Gesha frowned. This man had badmouthed his son twice now. She only did that right in front of the boy, when his head was getting too big, which was always. It wasn't worth the effort to do that when he was gone.

Well, considering the trouble Lindon had caused her only a week into his stay in the Desolate Wilds, she didn't exactly disagree that the boy was a troublemaker…

He continued. "Well, my wife is a Soulsmith and she sent me out for parts, so would you mind joining us for a while? Lindon said he would visit her foundry today." He was only a Jade. His wife was probably only a Jade. Gesha would learn nothing in their little workshop.

However, it was a sure bet to seeing Lindon, so she went.

A few hours later and she had learned quite a bit about Sacred Valley. As much as she left her smithing foundry and heard the common news, Gesha missed out on quite a lot. Wei Shi Seisha and Jaran were both only recently Jade, as was almost everyone from Sacred Valley. The whole valley was under some kind of suppression field, which Lindon had used to his advantage to fight the Wandering Titan. He had actually fought a Dreadgod, him!

Seisha was suitably impressed by this, but Jaran seemed reluctant to offer any praise to his son. It wasn't a case of general pessimism, he was sure impressed by some of Gesha's basic Soulsmithing knowledge, but not by his son's achievements. She knocked her opinion of his perception down a few steps.

A knock came at the door. Jaran walked over and opened it. "Humblest apologies, family of the Sage of Twin Stars. The Emperor has requested his presence, and he will be gone for a few days. The Sage sends his apologies, and has sent me with these dream tablets."

Hmph. Gesha would have to come back another day, then. "Sure bet," she thought, but that was clearly wrong. She spent a few more minutes at the Shi household, then bid farewell.

The boy was too busy. What did advancement get you? Just more people looking for your ear, that was what. Even Truegold was almost too high for her. But the boy would just keep climbing anyway, wouldn't he?

---------

Author's notes: Yeah, this was really meandering. This whole thing was kind of a first draft, but I don't know if I would change all that much. I'm not sure how to get the characters' voices quite right, so I'm just going to leave it where it is. For what it's worth, I don't think Gesha would clash all that much with Jaran; they are both rather negative towards Lindon. The only difference is that Gesha is demanding, and Jaran is dismissive.

I do like how in Waybound, Gesha is completely dismissive of Jaran as a teacher figure. I didn't know how to fit that in here, so I didn't.

[somerunner]

One of my favorite tropes is when characters have traits or mannerisms that reflect their parents. Even if these traits are bad, or their parents are generally bad, for some reason it just makes me smile to see the similarities between characters and their parents. Maybe it’s because it gives me hope I can live up to my own parents; maybe it’s because it indicates that everyone rubs off on each other over time, leaving a legacy behind in how they influence each other; maybe it’s some other reason.

Anyway, the main examples that come to mind here are Kaladin’s curmudgeonly attitude and mostly-inflexible code of honor (both inherited from Lirin, and the second partially also inherited from Hesina), Miles Morales thinking of his parents‘ and uncle’s words at critical moments in the Spiderverse movies (and also him and his dad walking down stairs instead of taking risky parkour jumps), and Yerin’s whole manner of speaking (inherited from the Sword Sage, a father figure).

Funnily enough the thing that brought this thought up was Varic Vallenar and his father Benri having a pettiness/oneupmanship contest every time they talk. It’s just funny and endearing to see them both act so calm while inwardly seething, and both care about their charges so much (Varic’s charge being “the safety of the galaxy” and Benri’s charge being “the financial state of the corporation, and guaranteed cooperation from his son”)

[somerunner]

Aough

Dross went "I want to know how much I'm worth intrinsically rather than as who I am, so I'm going to deliberately act like the old version of me disappeared in my coma" for weeks, and Lindon proved him that he was worth a lot. And that wasn't the only reason Dross did that, of course; he also liked his new personality.

But wow, I feel something when reading that passage. I think I sometimes do the same as him, holding back on trying to see how much people will tolerate from me.

Sometimes I listen to Dross’s big scene near the end of Dreadgod just to feel something.

[somerunner]

Cradle's soul oath mechanic is interesting. Instead of a truth spell, it's a weak geas. Now, I've heard that it was introduced because there had to be a reason for Lindon and Yerin to cooperate in the first book -- she wouldn't have worked with him otherwise. But then it becomes a important mechanic in many other situations, often driving small parts of the plot (in much the same way as the first book: nudging characters' behavior so that things stay narratively ideal without committing character assassination).

I liked it for how it was used. It's making me think of other stories where such things as geases and truth-detection are part of the setting, also to nudge the plot (e.g. when someone is being investigated for an accusation and they just say "I didn't do it" so their name is cleared, or they say something literally true but misleading, etc.).

You could certainly write something with no such nudges, and it would certainly be worth exploring more natural sequences of events, but these nudges aren't cop-outs. They're putting the story in an equally interesting place.

And now I'm thinking about cut-anything swords, telepathy, infinite energy sources, and other common fantasy tropes that completely sidestep normal events (can't cut your way through walls; can't coordinate strategy in front of your enemies; powering machinery requires a supply chain) -- just so they can get to the parts they want to discuss.

I don't have anything to say about this. I just think it's neat, I guess.

[somerunner]

Uhhhh more Cradle posts possibly. Cradle ask game

So I have a serious work-avoidance and screen addiction problem, like 8-10 hours a day. I also have an undergraduate thesis to write. I can get a little bit of work done every day, and can get more done if I am kept accountable. I can also get more done if I get the ball rolling by doing some unrelated task.

With that in mind, here’s an ask game! It’ll give me a reason to convince myself to actually work on those Cradleposts that I said I would make a few months ago. Send one or more numbers or the questions verbatim, and add your input (i.e. send an ask that’s like “1, Ziel’s arc” or “1: Thoughts on a character arc in Cradle. I’d like to hear your thoughts on Ziel”). You could also just send the number/question with no input, and I’ll write about whatever I feel like.

Thoughts on a character arc in Cradle

Thoughts on a Path

Thoughts on a one-appearance character

Thoughts on any other character

What’s the last idle theory I had about Cradle (basically, just “Thoughts”)

Write a short canon-compliant fanfic (i.e. a battle Yerin had, or Gesha actually enjoying her time in the Blackflame Empire while the kids train)

Write a short fanfic, not canon-compliant (i.e. Lindon gets visited by Zakariel and not Suriel, or Yerin gets Solo Leveling system powers. It could be literally anything)

Draw a crappy fanart (please have low expectations lol, I don’t know how to draw and will also draw the whole thing in like 2 minutes)

Funny post (i.e. funny hypotheticals like “I wonder if Reigan Shen was any good at DDR” or funny observations like “Biggest Lindon L: he never made a totally epic launcher construct out of the Dreadgods. Huge loss”)

Short crackfic (basically the same as above, but narrated)

Hypothetical situation (i.e. how would the gang fare vs. Goku, what kind of pasta would Eithan cook, which member of the group would be best at video games, etc.)

Add an Image ID to Cradle art (I’ve been meaning to do that for all the ones I’ve seen but it’s so much easier to just scroll)

Just a reminder, send a number or the full question, and then add what you’d like for the question to be answered about! I’ll only spend a few minutes on any of these unless I lose track of time, since the point is to get me out of a scrolling rut and get to work on college stuff.

Does this actually work to get me on task? Kinda! It’s better than uninterrupted scrolling, which is my usual state.

Oh, and if you want to send these asks about Will Wight’s other work, I can also answer those. I’ve read all his other stuff too.

[somerunner]

Akura Fury and Emotional Distance

Uhhhh this is not meant to be a comprehensive post, but I was just idly reading Uncrowned for a few minutes and remembered that Akura Fury is yet another imperfect member of the Akura family.

In chapter 6 of Uncrowned, Fury expresses a lot of interest in Lindon’s duels/fights to prove his strength and soothe the worries that he is unqualified to compete in the Uncrowned King tournament. After Lindon wins all of those, Fury leaves Grace and Pride (close family members) to duel between themselves for a seat — and decides to just leave instead of dignifying them by spectating them. Charity stays to judge the match, and it was for Fury’s pick for the tournament.

He also shows this same kind of attitude towards his daughter Charity; in Wintersteel, he forgets to tell her about the Monarch competing in the tournament (a very big deal, especially since Charity is supposed to be second in political power to Fury, so she should have been informed).

This kind of “I don’t care about this” attitude isn’t always bad; when Mercy was publicly humiliated (by Malice, the Akura Monarch and Mercy’s mother) for losing her match, Fury declined to watch when that was a very bold move, politically. No one lightly disobeys the Monarch.

I wasn’t really going anywhere in particular for this, but I think it’s interesting. Fury is pretty good, but he does cause some collateral emotional damage. I think he had this kind of attitude when raising Charity, given her own issues with empathy (see: her sending some people to lethally fight against Lindon, eventually ending in one death, and not expressing any misgivings about this course of action. This was in recompense for Lindon killing her nephew, which he did not know at the time (he didn’t know that the guy he killed was Charity’s nephew, and he also did not know she was the one who sent people after him until one had already died)).

[somerunner]

Yooooo another Cradle reader!! I don’t know why I keep parroting Will Wight’s elevator pitch of Cradle as “westernized xianxia,” saying it’s ATLA but also DBZ is a much easier way to get the setting across.

I’m sorry to say this OP but Skysworn is also bad because it doesn’t have bloopers at the end 😔. Bloopers didn’t start until Ghostwater, and he added new bloopers to the first three, but Skysworn will not get bloopers for a while. (I like Skysworn a lot for everything it sets up but I agree with everyone else that it’s slow. Slow is good though. You don’t get much slowness in Cradle.

I've been sticking to my New years resolution to read at least one book a month it's quite nice, actually. I've been reading this book series called "Cradle" it's real good.

It's kinda like if Avitar the Last Airbender operated under Dragon Ball Z level scaling and tropes, and everyone could potentially become super sayian if they trained hard enough. Also, the author drinks his respects women juice, which is nice.

Rn i'm half way threw "Skysworn" which is the 4th book I believe outta twelve. Some people say the fourth kinda drags on and isnt good, but I kinda like the slow burn after how quick things went in the third book.

Also, this book series is fun cause at the end of each book the author literally puts bloopers in, and they are freakin hilarious.

I'd recommend it.

[somerunner]

Before I forget, here are a few things I think are worth discussing about Cradle that I haven't seen other posts about: Lindon and "reading between the lines" (in the first chapter, he misunderstands the full weight of what is being said. In later books, he understands people completely but willfully misinterprets them to his benefit. Most notably in Uncrowned and Wintersteel)

Akura Charity's emotions and stuff (she constantly is kept in the dark about things during Uncrowned and Wintersteel, and is jaded by the end of the series)

Icons that the characters could be close to (i.e. Mercy and the Bow Icon, Yerin and the Shield Icon (and Sword and Blood Icons), Ziel and the Script Icon (if it exists), etc.)

The labyrinth, lost history, the mechanics of madra combinations, the Sage of the Endless Sword, etc. (stuff that's been discussed in Discord and elsewhere in the fandom, but not on Tumblr)

[somerunner]

Tossing another one in the Cradle music videos ideas folder: Ziel vs the Storm Sage.

So, in the game Furi, the main character is an extremely powerful swordsman, tortured awake by electric shock. He then kills his torturer. Then he faces and kills his remaining guards. On my run today I was listening to Furi and Carpenter Brut’s music among other things, and the second song here came up. I thought this would make a perfect music video animation of Ziel, an extremely powerful warrior, fighting the brutal Sage of Calling Storms, who once tortured him with lightning.