#finn is why im rewriting tlj

[elekinetic]

What part of the Star Wars sequels was your LEAST favorite and what is the thing you would change first in a rewrite

r3ylo. they so very very very badly dropped the ball with their relationship and their characters, specifically ben. oh my god. and listen listen listen, you had PERFECTLY GOOD LEGENDS CONTENT TO RECYCLE RIGHT THERE. i mean b3n solo is already a hodge podge of ben skywalker (luke's son) and jacen solo, so lets just fucking give him jacen's name and reskin rey as jaina solo, jacen's twin sister.

we give jaina rey's kindness, headstrong leadership, and reservation. we make her a little more jaded bc hello, her twin brother left their family and destroyed their uncle's temple to go become a sith lord. that would make anyone a little pessimistic.

we'd follow jaina, who works as part of the resistance under her mother, leia. standard child of divorce stuff: feels like she'll never live up to the expectations of her mother, longs for freedom outside of the diplomatic role she's been assigned, holds her mother to a higher standard than her dad (is it really an ella nancysglock idea if there aren't themes of strained daughterhood & motherhood?) jacen showed force sensitivity from a young age and got whisked off to train w uncle luke while jaina stayed with her mom and learned the politics. (imagine one of our opening scenes being jaina in full diplomatic getup on one of the republic planets, slipping out of a meeting and pulling off her robes, wiping off her makeup. she's just about to jump a balcony to sneak out when she hears a very familiar older female voice say, "you might as well walk out the front door if you're gonna be so obvious about sneaking out." leia. of course.) the first act of ep 7 finds jaina discovering her force-sensitivity. when she goes to find luke in ep 8 (a la rey), there's the added dynamic of "you never knew me as well as my brother" and luke seeing so much of his sister (and han to an extent) in jaina.

rey + ben's soul-bondy thing would be a twin sense thing for jacen and jaina (like what is vaguely established between luke and leia in the ot). luke + jacen would have even clearer narrative parallels (male twin luke brought to the light, male twin jacen brought to the dark). jacen would be a more sympathetic villain bc jaina's draw toward him and care for him are pre-established, as well as the reason their relationship is strained. we'd spend time throughout the trilogy unpacking their complicated dynamic via those soul bond vision communication things that started between r&b in tlj.

now im sure ur thinking, "but ella, one of the best themes of the sequels (which was terribly mishandled) was that you didn't have to be born into a special family to be a hero, that you can choose your family and make a difference no matter who you are!" to that i say: yes. 100%. which is why we're giving finn & poe actual storylines. the other big theme of the sequels is legacy, right. what does it mean to be a skywalker, a solo? thats why we see rey, a nobody, rise to heroism and take on the skywalker name while ben, who was born into the family, fall from grace and struggle with morality (in theory). i think we can do this better though. lets have jaina and jacen BOTH be born into the skywalker family (bc hey, it is the skywalker saga) and watch them struggle with light and dark. lets take that "dark rey" shit from tlj and push it further. lets see jacen seduced by the dark and pulled toward the light because he still cares about his sister. lets see jaina raised in the light and tempted by the freedom of the dark side.

lets also see jaina and finn choose each other as chosen siblings. lets see finn develop a real dynamic with jacen. (finn is a real protagonist in this as well, im just not talking about his role in the story as much in this post. but trust, he is a huge part of the story.) lets see more of leia & poe's mother/son dynamic. lets push those ben/poe parallels further.

tldr. replacing rey & ben with jaina & jacen solo so they're twins now. obviously no romance. finn & poe get bigger storylines and there are much deeper themes about family, chosen AND blood.

[alicentsgf]

i dont think i realised How Much i love Finn until now because I've loved a lot of characters who've been mistreated and side-lined but i have never been so fucking angry in my whole life as I have been since i saw tlj

[mandaloriangf]

You got it backwards. The original idea for the ST was to have two equal heroes, Kira and Sam, but over time focus shifts to be more and more solely on Kira, later Rey, with Sam/Finn nowhere in sight. Sam gets some decent development while he's still a smuggler/rogue type, but mostly that's about fitting him into Kira's story. After he becomes a Stormtrooper he's only mentioned in two ways, how to get him out of the FO/neo Empire and then how to get him involved with Kira. 1

Outside of that Sam gets nothing and even that little dries up completely when he becomes Finn and then John is cast. At this point Sam/Finn ONLY exists in connection to Kira/Rey's storyline and not as himself, while Kira/Rey is all over. Finally the point was that if Sam/Finn had a storyline of his own that was clearly discarded for TLJ, there was no reason not to include it in the TFA art book. There's plenty of those for Kira/Rey, not none for Sam/Finn 2

And given that the script and storyline for TLJ was done long before TFA was done and while the art book was still not finalized and printed, if such a storyline for Sam/Finn had existed there is again no reason not to bring it up as it has been discarded already. Only real conclusion that can be drawn is that Sam/Finn at this point have no independent storyline apart from Kira/Rey, that his story only exists to serve hers and that that is what we'll see in IX too 3

As for John's excitement none of you seem to recall how he acted while TLJ was shooting, or you try to rewrite the past to suit you. John behaved the exact same way during the TLJ shooting as he does now. The only difference is that he never made a montage of where he was shooting, but given that basically all his scene were at the studio he couldn't. He haven't shown anything of the Pinewood shootings this time either. 4

It is also placing a very unfair burden on John. I saw a lot of how he was blamed for being initially enthusiastic about TLJ as selling a fake story to the fans and that he shouldn't have supported it at all, even though Finn's original story in TLJ was decent and if it had been kept intact would have been the best part of the movie. 5

Which is another reason why I don't put faith in his enthusiasm, because he have no control over what JJ will do and the major part of Finn's story won't end up on the cutting room floor. Especially when you consider that JJ was the one who originally left Finn/Sam with no clear storyline of his own and have his story be wholly subsumed by Rey/Kira's he's likely to continue that trend. 6

Plus there's so many things IX have to do so a storyline and arc that form the start wasn't there for a character that is so clearly indicated to be secondary will take a back seat to the main plotline which will be Skywalker drama. As for the co lead, can I point to ANH and TPM where first Leia then Padme had a big part but they both too way a back seat after? In spite of their plot prominence in the first movies of their trilogies. 7

And saying that this is different because it is meant to be Finn's and Rey's story doens't cut it. Not when the TFA art book make it so blindingly clear that that concept was abandoned long ago and that the ST at the time JJ got to shooting it was Rey's story and Rey's alone. That Finn was only there to support her character and development. I hope I'm wrong about this, but the TFA art book and everything else indicates differently. /end

tbh at this point im not really sure what we’re arguing about and why. like ive said before, i am concerned about finn’s story in ix and thats the only thing ive got major fears about. however, old concept art from before tfa was even released doesnt mean anything. thats all the way back before finn even had his name and was designed as white. concept art isnt story boards. theyre just drawn ideas for characters, costumes, sets, etc. plus we know that whatever plan jj had was thrown out by rian so we dont even know whats going to happen. i just dont have to energy to be arguing about this concept art thing anymore