#fnavitd1ps1

[frigid-moon-fall]

I went through the PSX version skits. Here's some notes. Take anything I say with a grain of salt. I am super amateur.

Stahn hums songs in his sleep sometimes…

Stahn wants to show his family the sights he's seen.

When in Fitzgald, Stahn says he doesn't want to visit his home because his family would just be angry at him and they'd fight. Mary thinks it's nice he has someone waiting for him, and Rutee reminds her she isn't alone.

Stahn, Rutee and Mary dislike the extreme heat of Calvalese, but Rutee complains way louder. Stahn says he doesn't like it because he grew up in a mountainous area. (In the remake, Stahn doesn't mind the heat at all.) Stahn and Rutee both dislike the cold, but Stahn likes snow. Leon doesn't appreciate their whining and says to get used to it.

There's a separate skit with Woodrow, Chelsea and Mary all struggling to stand the heat. Stahn observes it must be because they're all from Phandaria.

When you have very little money, Stahn will worry about having to sleep on the street. Johnny isn't worried at all, says that's the bard life. Mary says it's fine because monsters drop food. Stahn is worried that they have no sense of danger.

Stahn tries his hand at poetry. Rutee jokes that he's better than Johnny.

There's a series of skits where characters try to imitate each-other. There's two of each, one where they're good at it, and one where they're bad at it. Rutee imitates Philia, and admits she practiced hard at it. Stahn imitates Leon, Rutee laughs, Leon doesn't quite understand he's being mocked but doesn't appreciate it anyway. When Leon does realize he's being mocked, he responds "Those will be your last words." Stahn also imitates Woodrow and Rutee.

Stahn is quick to point out when Rutee isn't being honest

When Rutee has poison status, Stahn assumes she ate something weird. Rutee corrects him, but he continues wondering if they have any items that help with food poisoning.

Rutee considers growing her hair out. Stahn says it looks good short. Rutee retorts Stahn should cut his hair because they'll be mistaken for opposite sexes like this. (They seem to have given this a try by the time Kyle is born…) (Stahn's face is typically drawn to have a strong jaw at least compared to most male protagonists... Was the original intent that Stahn should be perceived as feminine? Or is Rutee just being grumpy)

Rutee asks what Stahn's dream is. He noncommittaly says being a hero. Rutee laughs and mocks him.

Rutee calls herself delicate, but Stahn doesn't seem to agree

Rutee makes a big deal about not liking country boys and differentiating herself from Stahn

Rutee calls Stahn lewd when he says about Mary "she's really a married woman after all"??

Stahn and Rutee squabble about as often as Rutee and Leon did

Rutee asks what to do after they're done. Stahn says probably go back to the countryside and relax. Rutee misunderstood, thinking Stahn was inviting her to come back with him, so she complains that she doesn't like the countryside. Stahn's confused and asks what she's on about since it's him who's going back there, not her.

Rutee's pretty sure she and Stahn would have met and become friends even if they hadn't met at the temple. Stahn says no she wouldn't because she'd still be stuck in the temple.

Rutee thinks the people of… Calvalese? Aquaveil? (I was listening to just a collection of voice clips without visuals…) are cold. Chelsea thinks exclusionism is immature and they should grow up. Stahn thinks they're good people, but Rutee says that's why he's fooled so easily.

Rutee and Mary both apologize for causing trouble for each-other.

Rutee tries to convince Chelsea that the ocean is made of sweat. Stahn scolds her.

Rutee is happy (in an ego-boosting way) to be called beautiful by Johnny. She apparently also gets envious looks from other women.

Rutee worries about the orphanage because of the aethersphere. Stahn, Woodrow and Philia urge her to go check on it.

Leon corrects Rutee to use proper titles when referring to Hugo. Rutee doesn't like that, and even mocks Leon for being such a loyal servant.

Rutee and Leon fight often, bickering petulantly like siblings, calling each-other children and their personalities rotten.

Some time after Leon dies, Stahn hears Rutee muttering and observes that Rutee must have cared about Leon, and Rutee insults Leon and insists she has no brother, but she's obviously upset.

After they set off, Leon, without prompting, begins ordering Stahn and Rutee on their behavior pointlessly. It's clear he's just being a brat.

Philia observes that Rutee and Leon are "close" because they fight like brother and sister.

Leon reminds them of the shock tiaras frequently to keep them in line, and shows willingness to shock Stahn for simply forgetting the route to Straylize Temple.

Woodrow and Philia say the days are passing by faster. Leon calls them old.

Stahn is sleepy and Philia is nervous. Leon calls them old. (Rutee calls him a brat)

Leon completely loses his cool and responds angrily and animatedly with a higher voice when Rutee accuses him of having a sister complex for Marian. He insists she's like a stepmother (義理の母親) to him. Rutee just eggs him on further by calling it a mother complex.

Stahn says he likes snow, and Rutee and Leon gang up to mock him for some reason. Mary's on his side at least. Rutee and Leon tend to get annoyed and yell at him for a decent amount of the same things.

Stahn and Leon gang up on Rutee to call her selfish. (While Stahn also admits that he thinks of himself as selfish, but Rutee is worse.)

Stahn and Rutee... never gang up on Leon!

Stahn gets annoyed when Leon's impatient for them to get going.

Leon tells Stahn to stop smiling so much, it's unsightly. Stahn tells Leon he should try being a little nicer. Leon says no.

Leon seems to appreciate it when Stahn's confident about fighting.

Leon seems genuine about wanting the eye out of Greybaum's hands because it's dangerous. (This is odd, because he's in on the plan.) He says he has to do something about it, and Stahn corrects him "Not just you—we." (hhh in that "you're not alone" way) Leon responds with his usual "say what you want" tsun.

Stahn attempts small talk with Leon just because he doesn't want it to be quiet between them. Leon's pretty chill when he responds he doesn't see a need for pointless noise.

Stahn thinks... an innkeeper's daughter? (宿屋の娘. I found a forum post implying he's talking about Ilene here) was pretty. Leon asks if he likes "that kind of thing" and Stahn says he was just observing she was pretty. (I can't decide on Leon's emotion here. It could be curious, it could be slightly annoyed.)

Leon's KO skit has Philia offer for him to use her shoulder for support. He says he'd rather die than need a woman's help. (?!) Rutee says it should be fine to leave behind the immature brat who collapsed during his mission. He basically calls her a brat back (with possibly the most impressive "HMPH" I've ever heard), and she either repeats it's fine to leave him behind 'cause he talks such shit, or that he must be fine because he can talk such shit.

Philia observes how isolated from the outside world she was, as she spent most of her life within the temple. She thinks the outside world is dirty and calls herself a clean-freak. Leon calls her troublesome for it.

Philia and Stahn bond a bit over both having been isolated from the rest of the world.

Stahn asks Philia if she wants to go back to the temple, but Philia feels fulfilled out here.

Philia's parents were devout followers, so she pretty much inherited their beliefs

Stahn doubts his skills as a swordsman. Philia tells him he's improving, and he quickly cheers up in a flustered way.

When Stahn doubts his ability when the aethersphere forms, Philia and Johnny seem to be the best at cheering him up.

Philia feels bad for taking Stahn from Lilith. Stahn says she'll get over it. Philia says she's cute, and Stahn disagrees because she just bosses him around. Philia says that's how she shows her love.

Stahn's KO skit has Philia worried for him, and it has a very romantic atmosphere. Ah, Johnny also says so, which flusters Philia.

Philia is more devoted to her religion, openly praying. Rutee politely doesn't care for it. Philia is upset that the party isn't religious enough. Stahn doesn't quite understand the praying, assuming she feels ill, so he offers to take her to a doctor.

Philia worries that when they're done, she won't see anyone ever again. Stahn assures her that everyone is too nice to just completely separate, and they'll all meet up whenever they want.

Rutee asks Philia about her love life and her type. Philia doesn't want to answer.

Philia removes a fallen eyelash from Rutee's cheek. Stahn and Philia don't understand why Rutee's so flustered.

Stahn is more likely to suggest taking a break for Philia's sake than for Rutee's.

Rutee gets jealous of Philia for how much attention Stahn was giving her before she got Clemente.

Philia offers to mend Stahn's cape when it's damaged. Kongman asks her to mend his too, but he doesn't have one…

Some light political talk between Woodrow and Johnny

Woodrow and Stahn are envious of each-others' positions of freedom and royalty. Woodrow offers to swap places, but Stahn says that'd be terrifying.

Both Rutee and Woodrow worry about Mary's wellbeing rejoining the party. Mary says Woodrow reminds her of Dalis because he's trying to keep her from fighting. She says it lightheartedly, but Woodrow seems shy about it.

Woodrow offers to do anything Mary needs, and she asks him to hold on to Dalis's sword. He says she's being deliberately mean.

Mary offers to help Woodrow with improving Phandaria when everything is over.

Woodrow asks about Mary's worries, and Mary asks why he's so worried about her. He takes a while to answer, and stutters that it's because they're fellow countrymen, and as King, it's his job to protect her. Mary isn't convinced that that's the only reason, but lets it go.

For Mary's KO skit, Woodrow loses his cool entirely and basically confesses his love to her. He says there's no point in fighting if Mary should fall, and that he needs her. Mary says he'll regret saying such things later, but he insists he won't. (TOD2 guidebooks would later specify that Woodrow's love for Mary was one-sided, and she rejected him. Never would have guessed this went on since the remake removed Woodrow's feelings for Mary entirely, and I don't remember these feelings being hinted at outside of skits, so the localization probably didn't have it at all.)

Chelsea seems to be aware of Woodrow's infatuation with Mary, because she randomly tells Mary that she's not going to lose to her.

Mary asks if Stahn ever thinks about people. … Stahn and I are both confused by what she means. She says he'll understand one day.

I have no idea how to interpret Stahn's laughter when Mary says riding a boat sounds fun. I don't know if he's nervous about her airheadedness (it's while she has amnesia) or if he's bashful because she's being cute

Mary wonders if she would have been happier if she never regained her memories. Philia offers to hear her troubles.

Chelsea thinks it's "a waste" that Mary speaks like a man. Mary doesn't see a problem with how she speaks. (Mary uses some rougher, casual language, but she still uses わたし (in hiragana!) and her cadence is generally very polite.)

Mary comforts Johnny about his relationship with his family.

Johnny recognizes that Mary is different when she rejoins. Mary observes that they both have a lot of worries right now.

Stahn is just generally good with Chelsea. He sounds so gentle with her a lot of the time.

Chelsea asks what "impertinent" means but Stahn doesn't know either. Chelsea says people call her that a lot.

Chelsea wants to go on adventures to train herself to be a good wife. That's just how it's done! When she says she'll become Queen of Phandaria, Stahn laughs at her and jokingly cheers her on. (…Holy shit?? Stahn's laugh is incredibly cute.)

Stahn and Woodrow bond over their similar situations with clingy girls (Chelsea and Lilith). Chelsea doesn't realize she's being talked about poorly.

(For Chelsea's KO skit?) Woodrow scolds Chelsea for getting herself in trouble. Calls her immature and that it'd be a good opportunity to go home. He doesn't think he could repair his relationship with Alba if something happened to Chelsea.

I cannot make heads or tails of what Chelsea's aim is when she gets poisoned. She seems to enjoy it.

Chelsea says she wants to grow up to be like Rutee and Philia. Stahn tells her she shouldn't.

Johnny is sad that Phandaria girls have to wear so many clothes and cover up their beautiful skin. (Also Phandaria girls apparently have a reputation for having beautiful skin because of the snow)

Johnny flirts with Rutee, but she doesn't quite get it. Chelsea says it's pointless to pursue her.

Johnny flirts with Philia. Stahn is embarrassed to hear it. (He also flirts with her in the pachislot, but that might have been just to get a rise out of Kongman)

Johnny mocks Kongman's singing, but he doesn't realize he's being mocked. Stahn does.

Stahn admires Kongman's strength, but Kongman says Stahn is plenty strong himself. Other than this, Kongman's kind of a jerk.

Rutee's pissed because Kongman has increased their food costs by an absurd amount. Kongman doesn't think women should eat much. Specifically he thinks Rutee should eat less.

Kongman tries to get Stahn to go with him to fool around with drunk girls? (Or was it to get the girls of the party to drink?) Rutee scolds him. Kongman asks if he's going to refuse because a woman told him to. Philia calls Kongman scum. Critical hit.

[frigid-moon-fall]

They don't smile much because they haven't met each-other yet.

So Leon is able to smile here because he's met them... ( .;´;_ゝ;｀:,)

[frigid-moon-fall]

I like taking mechanics and turning them into character traits.

Mechanic-wise, Leon's HP and defense are about on par with Philia's. He's a fragile speedster. But also a crit master. A glass cannon.

The remake even has a skit about Stahn being able to take a hit better than he can. A punch that Stahn reels a bit from would probably lay Leon out entirely.

I will accept without any argument that Leon is by far the most skilled party member, but I refuse to believe that he'd stand a chance against a good chunk of them in a battle of raw strength. Sit him down for arm wrestling and he's walking away with a dislocated shoulder.

But. His body apparently changes between PS1 and PS2.

That demo disc interview has Rutee remark on how ROCK HARD all of his muscles are. So he is an ultra ripped twig in the original.

Director’s Cut’s hotspring sidequest shows he’s the only male character without any visible muscle definition. All the other boys are muscular as hell, and Rutee who stands in a similar pose as him has very visible muscle to her arms. Philia’s sprite may look soft but she holds Clemente, the largest Swordian, directly above her head for extended periods of time without shaking. Chelsea actually has a little definition on hers and archers need plenty of upper body strength. So yes in DC continuity Leon probably has the least muscle or upper body strength of the entire party.

<insert virgin remake vs. chad original memes>

Oops that was accidental wording but hey we're also pretty sure DC Leon is a virgin too anyway based on that one sidequest where he aborts some dirty snark like 2 words into the sentence because he's just that embarrassed

It's nothing but headcanon but I feel like the whole motion sickness thing lends well to theorizing that his immune system might be fragile, too.

[frigid-moon-fall]

A lot of locations got simplified in the PS2 remake. Makes sense, since although it's nice to see a full city and house layout, those are kind of useless clutter that a lot of players will feel compelled to explore and then feel like they wasted time when there's nothing interesting.

I wanted to have this on hand just to help display that the manor is supposed to be way larger than the remake shows.

I don't know if the rest of the manor's rooms have their uses specified through the game (I really need to go back through it properly), but Hugo's study is mentioned by name when you first arrive. I don't know if any of the bedroom's are Leon's, considering none of them are obviously Hugo's either, and Proust kind of implied that Leon doesn't stay at the manor after a certain point. (Then again, Proust was also published 2 years after the game, and the manga that started publication 2 days after the game had already made several changes. Continuity, who needs it.)

The eerily realistic portrait is definitely Chris. It's interesting to see how that portrait changes through adaptations and artbooks. Since it's so realistic, I wonder if it was sourced from a real photograph?

[frigid-moon-fall]

I revisited the ending of the PS1 version and now I am full of Stahn Crying feelings again. That crying sprite wasn't only used in comedic scenes. It was used seriously, too. The remake really lost something by taking away Stahn's tears.

Let Stahn cry!!!

[frigid-moon-fall]

I noticed I don't write or think a lot about them realizing feelings before everyone splits up. But that's also the only time they actually have within canon to act on anything… and it's an interesting angle to take, too, since in continuities where Leon has always been under duress, he has solid reasons to hold feelings back.

For one, Marian still comes first, whether he loves someone else or not. And it'd probably take until the last minute together before Stahn leaves for him to ask for help, if ever. So he'd be acting according to what he's sure is already going to happen: He's going to save Marian alone, and he's going to wait for the end of the world with her. There's no future for him with Stahn because there is no future, period.

For two, Stahn would just become another weakness. Something Hugo could capture and threaten. This Leon already knows how powerful Hugo is, so he knows there's no point in trying to fight him. He'd only be putting Stahn in danger if he let himself get close to him.

But I think both of those could cancel each-other out, too. The world is going to end anyway. He's already going to help Hugo destroy it, because he already has the ultimate bargaining chip against him. There'd be no reason for Hugo to take Stahn as hostage too; it'd be redundant. So why not? Why not indulge while there's still time?

The only reasons I could think of for not doing so would be not wanting to have the inevitable fallout after Stahn learns what he's done, or a subconscious hope that Stahn will stop him if he's free.

(I ended up trying to write a oneshot about this. Key word "try".)

(Why do I keep saying Hugo when I know he's possessed? idk, it just feels more right to refer to him as Hugo when it's from the perspective of a character who currently doesn't know he's possessed.)

[frigid-moon-fall]

As I sift through old twtter posts, I am finding I was very not alone at all in thinking of that one official art of Stahn and Leon with Stahn pointing, when hearing the second bridge of the opening theme.

So much of the opening theme just doesn't match unless it's them. So much just suddenly falls into place if it's them. So much that it feels intentional. After reading the interview, too, it feels even more like that... if parting was such a strong theme for them. Because the only one who goes away is Leon...

And of course, so many years later, they chose Leon's voice actor to sing the opening for the remixes...

[frigid-moon-fall]

Since the post about the PS1 version of the manor went well, why not take a closer look at the bedroom in the remake? We still don't know whose room it really is, but Hugo comes out of it when you first enter the manor, and Leon heads up the stairs when saying he'll be in his room, and he comes from its general direction in a hallucination of Rutee's. With it being simplified so much, it's really anyone's guess whose room it actually is. These are the sacrifices of streamlining.

Anyway, details! Both visible and invisible.

First off, the things that are easy to see from this screenshot alone.

The (currently open) curtain around the bed for added privacy

The books aren't kept especially tidy

There's a piece of paper left on the desk with something on it. You can't examine it.

There's a picture frame on a shelf, turned to face the wall. This is an entirely different asset from the one in the foyer, which just happens to be turned away from the player's view, so it's likely this is on purpose. Whatever the picture is of, it's good to remember that the picture in the foyer is of the whole Katrea/Gilchrist family, and it's displayed openly.

The tissue box on the bedside table lol

And now things that you can't see.

There's a towel hung up in the bathroom somewhere entirely off camera

The bathtub is way bigger than the camera angle implies

The full painting on the wall

Full details of the coats in the armoire (A big strong artist should totally draw Leon or Hugo wearing those)

Full details of all the rugs

(Edit: Full shot of the bathroom!)

And now you might have noticed that all of these are isometrically oriented sprites instead of the usual top-down textures you'd expect from a 3D environment that looks like this. That's just how TOD's remake does things for a lot of areas. I guess it makes the art style easier to keep consistent, but it sounds like a pain to keep the skewing effect looking good across all rooms that use it.

By the way, if anyone wants something similar done for other areas, let me know which and what parts of it you're interested in specifically.

Oh, while we're at it, let's make a useless list of observable features in the most likely candidate for Leon's room from the PS1 version. We really don't need to, but whatever.

A whopping five different sets of drawers that Ori!Stahn is too polite to snoop through

A giant table meant for one

Two potted plants, neither of which would be in the general line of sight of someone sitting in either of the chairs (90 degrees to your left/right doesn't count), sitting on either of the window sills, or laying in bed

One trash can beside the desk, and one trash can beside the bed (They are specified to be trash cans in-game. It is not a chamber pot.)

A clock or radio on the desk. I'd sooner guess clock from the two hands.

A useless little nook that only houses one of the potted plants

A Marian She is not a room fixture, sorry

Oh, you clicked it? Okay. Here's my theory of where Leon sleeps....

On this couch in the dining room because that's the room where he spends all his free time anyway

[frigid-moon-fall]

The biggest takeaways from those PSX skits to me were goddang Woodrow got it bad

and Leon possibly being a little jealous of Stahn's crush(?) on Ilene. That tiny Japanese forum I mentioned seemed to think Leon's tone of voice sounded jealous rather than curious or plain annoyed. Even if he wasn't, that's an interesting change. PSX had Leon taking an interest in the type of girl Stahn might like, while PS2 had Stahn insistently blabbering while Leon did not want to hear about it.

Hmm, also that Stahn really recognized that Philia didn't need protecting after she got Clemente.

[frigid-moon-fall]

One of the biggest losses from PSX to Remake was that Stahn doesn't have a crying sprite anymore. Goddamn, between that and Proust, I've ended up with the interpretation that both of these boys cry a lot. Leon has A Lot Of Feelings and Stahn is just very open and in touch with his.

[frigid-moon-fall]

I saw a listing for a poster that looks kind of like a board game?

I'm wondering when the text on it was written in relation to the original game. I don't know when this thing was "published", but it's probably for the original PSX version?

Things of note: -Stahn has a "weakness" against women. He can't win arguments against girls like Lilith and Rutee. -Vague mention of Philia's "Inspect" ability. Apparently it's a skill of her glasses, which are special. Also glasses are rare in their world. -Woodrow prefers to be an advisor rather than a leader. -Leon is stated to be 14 years old...? This is the only place I've seen that. He's 16 everywhere else (except Proust, which is a prequel). -Leon's noted to not have much muscle or physical strength, so he can't use heavy weapons. (This directly contradicts the demo's interviews where Rutee remarks that he's exceptionally toned. Starting to think the demo is the only piece of media that thinks he should have muscle.)

[frigid-moon-fall]

I really want to play both games back-to-back. I feel like my view of how characters' personalities are portrayed in each is off, and kind of in a because-fanon-told-me-so way.

Like one of the biggest complaints I see is that Stahn was made blatantly stupid. But poking around the start of remake again, I'm doubting that claim. Like it opens with Woodrow complimenting Stahn on an area of intelligence. I'd argue PSX Stahn is the dumbest one of all adaptations since he's the only one that was 100% successfully goaded into fighting Leon based on personal slights and anger even when he was told that's what was happening. Meanwhile every other iteration could tell something was wrong.

They say PSX version "feels like an actual group of friends", but like... the kind of mean things they say to each-other really depends on context and cadence to come across as close-friends-joking, and it always sounds just mean-spirited to me, especially since they're saying things like that immediately without building a friendship first. Sure, I'll say mean things good-naturedly with my friends, but only after we've become friends.

I think a good chunk of these old personalities might have just been a product of the popular tropes of the time and an insistence on comedy rather than any real intent of the writers for them to be a certain way. Stahn having what they call "common sense" comes through mostly when it serves a joke. Other character who is supposed to be smart says a dumb thing, Stahn makes a smartass remark about it under his breath, etc.

But that's based on only having viewed a couple scenes recently, and a bunch of faded memories. Maybe I'll decide that's entirely wrong once I actually get to it.

But that will be the way I try to analyze it when I do play again, whenever that is. I'll be looking at the meanness and general characterization with the same scrutiny as perverted humor, as something only funny to a certain audience but is narratively useless and out-of-character.

[frigid-moon-fall]

It's only a silly little aside, but... In the PSX skits, when Philia talks about her aversion to all things dirty and Leon's annoyed about it. I guess the wording isn't quite conducive to this what-if, but

with Proust Leon considering himself to be tainted/dirty, I wonder if it kind of struck him subconsciously.

[frigid-moon-fall]

Okay you see the problem is

The problem is

They all let Leon have a choice in the matter.

Depending on the iteration, they either kicked his ass until he couldn't realistically fight anymore, they pulled their punches because they didn't want to fight and prolonged it too much, or they didn't even really get to fight in the first place.

It's 4v1 at worst, 7v1 at best, he weighs fucking 106 pounds, JUST LET THE HEAVIEST OF YOU TACKLE HIM WHILE HE'S FIGHTING EVERYONE ELSE AND DRAG HIS ASS OUT OF THERE KICKING AND SCREAMING. DIRECTOR'S CUT MANGA IS STUPID, LEON'S SIDE IS STUPID, DON'T LET THEM FOOL YOU INTO BELIEVING HE COULD WIN 7v1.

Don't waste time with words!! If you absolutely must fight, do not trust a dumbass 16 year old child who has been emotionally manipulated and is under incredible amounts of stress to make a good decision, let alone in a timely manner!! Do not wait for him to decide to take your hand, scruff that tiny 5'1" twink the moment he's tired and GOOOOOO.

THIS KID'S NOT EVEN OLD ENOUGH TO VOTE YET, WHY ARE YOU LEAVING THE CHOICE TO DIE ON THE TABLE FOR HIM

I realize some of them are only a mere 2 years older than him, but literally everyone else besides Chelsea IS AN ADULT!! YOU ALL!! SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!!

[frigid-moon-fall]

I had a moment. I spent hours looking up writing credits for the Destiny games to see which game has what writers in common so I know who to blame if I hate TOD2 (and the credits sequence of each game is actually not sufficient for finding out who did what!!)

I just realized where I know one of the PSX version's writers' names from. Drakengard. Sawako frickin Natori. Yeah no wonder Destiny got dark. Jeez. I. I want her and Miyajima to team up and make the hurtiest game ever now.

[frigid-moon-fall]

Ohhh... Oh no.... I was listening through the PSX skits and Leon said a big nasty....... Leon nooooo..... Well it's certainly a character flaw......

This is one thing I'm glad was retconned