#frances eleanor laurens

[my-deer-history]

Do you think Laurens would have been a good dad if he met Frances?

"Good" is such a loaded term here, because what that meant back then and what it means now differ in a few significant ways. Overall, I think John Laurens would have done all of the things that were required of him as a parent, so in that way, my answer is yes - he would probably have been a good father by the standards of his day. But let’s explore a little more deeply what that would actually have meant.

The primary duties of a father in the 18th century included financially supporting his family, providing moral or spiritual guidance, educating his children, and instilling the proper virtues and values that would guarantee a successful life. While fathers generally focused more of their attention on their sons, especially where it came to education, this was not a firm rule, and it was not unheard of for daughters to be actively raised and educated by their fathers.

John would have had a good role model for single-fatherhood from his own father. After Eleanor Laurens died in 1770, Henry took on the responsibility of raising and educating his children himself. His focus, unsurprisingly, was on his sons. But although Martha and Mary Eleanor did not join their father and brothers on the 1771 journey to England to further the boys' education, Henry also arranged tutors for them and encouraged their focus on intellectual pursuits in tandem with learning the skills and crafts that women were expected to know. Martha especially was known to be intelligent and curious.

John also had plenty of first-hand experience in some of the practicalities of raising children, since he had been assigned to manage his brothers' education, finances and living arrangements while abroad - not to mention the supervisory role he played for his cousin, Molsy Bremar, and various other young South Carolinians in the Laurens's orbit, like Jackie Petrie. This responsibility came with plenty of instructions from Henry, but John carried out these duties well, and his judgement was trusted.

But what precisely might John have done if a six-year-old Frances was delivered to his doorstep in 1783?

I highly doubt that John would have taken on the full scope of parental duties himself. For one, he would just not have had the time in between finishing his studies, getting involved in politics, securing an income stream in the wake of his family’s ruined finances, supporting his younger siblings and sick father, and so on. Additionally, he would not have felt he was equipped to provide the guidance Frances should get from her mother. So I suspect that Frances would have ended up precisely where she did - in the care of her aunt Martha - with John playing a guiding and supervisory role over critical points of her education and upbringing, while leaving the rest of the childcare to his sister. This arrangement would have been considered normal and sensible, and would have provided Frances with the stable home life she is unlikely to have found at her father’s side.

As for the emotional connection John would have felt, which certainly would have been part of the "good father" package, it's hard to speculate. John was considerate, loving and affectionate to his siblings, even to his youngest sister, whom he barely knew - but he did not always show compassion to his cousin Molsy, or to his wife. And Frances herself barely warrants a single mention in his surviving correspondence.

On balance, I do think he would have made an effort to show love and care to Frances, but whether it would have been a genuine feeling or just an expression of his duty and values is not something I think we will ever know.

[yr-obedt-cicero]

Soldier's daughter

[foundingfatherjohnlaurens]

On this day in 1777, “Frances Eleanor, daughter of John and Martha Laurens” was baptized at Saint Andrew Undershaft church in London. This record of her baptism is from the London Metropolitan Archives.

[affectionately-frankie]

Francis Henderson Sr’s Family

i’m back for a little bit to share what i’ve learned about Francis Henderson Sr’s wife and kids after he moved to Newport, Rhode Island. i am unsure if any of this information has been discovered and shared in the time i’ve been gone, and if so, i’m sorry for repeating information. i haven’t been on Tumblr since my last post, iirc, and i don’t feel like checking, i’m sorry!

For quick background, in Francis Sr’s letters to John Adams, he says that he is living in Rhode Island and briefly visiting South Carolina. Reminiscences of Abbeville also states that Francis Sr lived in Newport and vacationed in South Carolina during the summer. It also states that after he left Junior in Scotland and moved to Rhode Island, he got remarried and had children.

The first of this information is a Newport census report from 1850.

Listed is a 71-year-old man named Francis Henderson, who it says was born in Scotland, which matches Frances Laurens’ ex-husband. Included in the household is a 53-year-old woman named Elizabeth, a woman named Janet, and a man named Robert, both in their twenties. Also included is a woman named Jane Armstrong, who it says was born in Ireland.

Using this information, I was able to find a Find A Grave connected. The cemetery the grave is connected in is located in Newport.

The grave lists three people, Francis Henderson, his wife Elizabeth Gouffran, and their daughter Janet Carruthers. There is a discrepancy, as their graves say Francis died at 80 on March 24, 1853, and Elizabeth died at 75 on March 7, 1855, while the census states they were 71 and 53 in 1850. Janet’s age is also discrepent, but I’m inclined to believe these are the same people, and I’m more inclined to believe that their graves display their accurate ages. This estimates his birth year as 1773 / 1774, meaning he was 21 or 22 when he married 18-year-old Frances Laurens.

Find A Grave connects this grave to that of a man named William H. Henderson, born in 1816. If this is the son of Francis Henderson and Elizabeth Gouffran, the H likely stands for Hoggan, as another grave found is for a nine-year-old girl named Elizabeth Hoggan Henderson, the “eldest daughter of Francis & Elizabeth G. Henderson.” A grave for a Robert J., who was listed on the 1850 census, is not connected. However, a Newport record does list the death of a Robert James Henderson, born est. 1826 and died in 1914, and is described as the son of Francis Henderson and Elizabeth G. Henderson.

With this knowledge, my personal current belief is that after arriving in Rhode Island, Francis Henderson Sr remarried to Elizabeth Gouffran, and they had at least three children, possibly four or more, including daughters named Elizabeth and Janet, a son named Robert, and possibly another son named William. Unlike Francis Junior, all of these children remained in Newport, Rhode Island. There is no evidence that, unlike their father, they vacationed in South Carolina as they are not mentioned in Reminiscences despite it otherwise being very information heavy. They likely never left / moved away from Newport, unlike their older half-brother.

[coriline]

John Laurens' grandson was probably a physician

Francis Henderson Jr, only surviving child of the marriage between Frances Eleanor Laurens (one and only children of John Laurens) and Francis Henderson, a Scottish merchant who met France in a bank, according to the newspaper of Abbeville, (I have a post about that and here you can see the microfilm of the newspaper).

In the newspaper, the author claims Francis Jr was graduated of the University of Edinburgh, they also said he was a specially well-informed and intelligent man, studying in “one of the first universities in Germany” too.

Since I read that, I asked myself what studied Francis Jr and maybe, today, I have the answer.

According to George Washington's Indispensable Men, Francis graduated from the University of Edinburgh in 1819. However, I haven't seen it mentioned in any other place and even in the article from the newspaper (written by a known of Francis Jr) doesn't mention the date of his graduation and the reference they use in George Washington's Indispensable Men is a Washington's writing, therefore this can be an inexact date (as happens with the year of born of Francis Jr, which some sources have it in 1800 and others in 1801)

I didn't know it, but the University of Edinburgh has a great conservation of graduated students since 1585, unluckily, the year of 1819 isn't available in the Archive Online, however, the faculty of medicine has its own recompilation of graduates.

Honestly, I didn't consider possible Francis Jr being a physician, he was raised by his father's side of the family, who were all merchants, and considering Francis Henderson (father) was considered poor I would have thought his family too, making it more complicated to Francis Jr study medicine.

That, without mentioning he was a good friend of Andrew Jackson (being invited to the White House during the trial with his father) therefore I would have expected him being focused on law or politics.

But, as soon as I searched in the Historical Alumni, I found there's two Francis Henderson graduated in medicine, one of them graduated during 1815 and the other, during 1817.

Even when this can be a strange coincidence, I find incredible John Laurens' grandson could have been a physician. Maybe I'll try searching what could have been the German university Francis Jr graduated too.

[elizaveraxd]

First of all, good morning, afternoon or evening. Second *sighs* don't ask me why I drew Frances Laurens x Phillip Hamilton, I just did it and period >:v!

[pythiaswine]

she's just like her father but it's kept her alive so far

[stasiaorleanka]

I think i need to introduce myself

I'm Marlena (she/her) from Poland.

I speak English, Polish, French!

I made a lot of self study to write in English :3

AMREV big fan

Alexander Hamilton, John Laurens, Frances Eleanor Laurens, Martha Manning Laurens, Elizabeth Schuyler Hamilton always in my heart <3

I like reading, writing, drawing, creating!

Not new in them, but definetlly new in publishing them :)

LAMS, HAMLIZA, and Martha Manning/John Laurens <333333

"My ravings are for your own bosom." Alexander Hamilton to John Laurens

my writings! on ao3 (English)

https://archiveofourown.org/users/StasiaOrleanka_Publicus

Wattpad (Polish)

https://www.wattpad.com/user/My_dear_boy

my writings but in polish!

https://archiveofourown.org/users/StasiaOrleanka_Publicus/pseuds/Aquelia

[cicero-defacto]

i think these are some people in your age group!! @sincerely-aphrodite @yr-disobedt-serv @its-scottangelo @dearestsilas @carnally-vittorio @yr-frances-eleanor-laurens @philip-hamilton-official @frederick-a-tallmadge

That is... a large group of adolescent adults.

[its-scottangelo]

have you met @coribennett @yr-frances-eleanor-laurens @yr-disobedt-serv or @yr-darling-birdie? they're all near your age

I don't know them yet *smiles* But hello!

[bloodiedbeloveds]

we saw "event with no alex ships" and said "what if laurens was fucked up and kissed everyone": the fic

@my-deer-friend here they are, please do not die! apologies for the very inconsistent writing style in this post

tragic backstory + context

Laurens is plural, because we said so. When they were children, the primary fronter (in essence, the guy who is there most of the time) was "Jackie Blue" <- this is a nickname, he just thinks of himself as John because he thinks he's the Real John Laurens. They became aware of Eleanor (yes, she named herself after her mother) around the age of twelve. Eleanor is very opinionated and goes after what she wants, we love to see it.

so for a while it was mostly eleanor and jackie blue and a couple other fragments & selves, and they had a whole plan about their future, they knew what was going to happen and everything was going to go well and they would be happy forever!

Then their mother died and everything went to shit. Jackie became selectively mute, Eleanor tried to Handle Everything but masking is very hard for her and she got so stressed she was dormant for about a year, and they formed a guy who calls himself "the prisoner" and had a nonstop existentialist breakdown for months. Eventually their father decided that his son had been grieving intensely for too long now and basically told them they needed to shape up and get it together.

To that end, they have J (this is also a nickname because he also thinks he's the Real John Laurens). He's normal! He's fine! He got them through college and into a career and out to their family! He's keeping all his emotions right here and then one day he'll die gotten over everything bad that's ever happened to him!

(J remembers enough things to think his life is normal / not notice major gaps, but not enough things to remember that the others exist. jackie & eleanor still front occasionally for much of this period of time but he does not know this. no he doesn't remember most of his childhood why would you ask)

(jackie thinks that j is an impostor who stole his life. eleanor hates him because he diverged from the plan that she & jackie made before their mother's death and she really wanted those things)

when the fic starts, however, j has just had a fight with henry laurens, because even literally having been made to be a son he could approve of wasn't good enough to keep the peace. so they are not talking, so j is upset but trying to pretend he isn't and the others are more often in front for significant periods of time.

thaurens

they fell in love in college and have been together for. a while. we don't actually have a good timeline for this au yet, haven't even figured out what jobs everyone has

their relationship is often pretty sincerely tender and affectionate! they are comfortable in each other's presence and always kiss goodnight and j makes thomas breakfast and they slow dance in the kitchen. they take weekend trips (thomas does not like hiking or anything Outdoorsy in general but will do it for him. in return j tolerates going to france once or twice a year). like it's important, for the rest of this au, that there is a meaningful amount of love there

unfortunately there's also this fundamental tension there, because thomas likes J, who is, to the others, that guy who gets everything because the rest of us are fundamentally unloveable, and J himself is performing a lot of the time

(there was a while in college when J was having a rough couple of weeks and thomas gradually stopped talking to him until he was more mentally stable, and although this was a long time ago J sort of never got over that)

Thomas doesn't like when people are weird or crazy, and they are as a collective pretty weird and crazy, so even before any of the others try to directly interact with him they have a sense that they will not be welcomed.

(this is confirmed when jackie, who is trying his best, hands thomas a note saying that he can't talk right now but everything is fine and he's going to make dinner, and thomas goes "what the fuck, what's wrong with you?")

(In general Thomas doesn't deal well with them having brain problems, because he does not like not knowing what to do & feels betrayed because of J's very collected image. he wants his normal boyfriend back, he does not want this weirdo with his notes and his makeup and his singing and his strange, hollowed eyes. he says something to this effect to eleanor's face and she almost hits him)

laurens & eliza

Yeah, so, remember a few paragraphs ago when we talked about Eleanor & Jackie Blue having planned out their entire life? Part of this plan was "marry our best friend Eliza, who Jackie trusts more than anyone else in the world and with whom Eleanor fell in love the first time they met"

(plural love at first sight is such a strong emotion you guys don't even know. remembering who this person is and all of their good qualities that your other selves have experienced and recontextualizing them through your personality and going oh. oh.)

Before their mother's death, Laurens & Eliza were not Officially Dating or anything, they did not kiss, but they were very physically affectionate and it was sort of. understood that this was a high-commitment relationship that wasn't going to go away. they never talked about their future or about dating and eliza did date other people but there was something unspoken and intimate and strong between them

J mostly put a stop to this by coming out as gay. He and Eliza are friends but that intensity is mostly gone. They didn't talk for about a year after their mother died & Eliza attributes their distance to that but also still kind of loves them

she doesn't pine, exactly. but it's a source of wistful melancholy for her and she often wonders if things could have been different

(eleanor still loves her so much it feels like being set on fire)

laurens & burr

J likes Aaron but is very much in denial about it. They're normal friends and he has a boyfriend anyway and it doesn't matter, so he's not going to think about the way he feels when Aaron says his name.

aaron fell in love with J after he & thomas were already dating, so he never really had any hope that this would work out. and that's fine! he's fine. it's fine that they'll never hold hands and it's fine that he'll never get to hold him at night and it's fine that thomas fucking jefferson has everything and doesn't even appreciate it. he's fine.

(aaron would probably not have hated thomas if thomas were more supportive. he would have settled for quietly resenting him. but aaron said once (in a friend way and not in a gay way) that laurens would look good in eyeliner, and j said something back about how thomas wouldn't like it, and aaron hummed noncommitally and decided to hate him forever.)

eleanor likes him a lot but isn't super obsessive about her romantic interest in him. she does, however, unmask slightly more than average around him, which is part of why aaron notices first. (the rest of it is-- nothing, don't worry about it, he's fine and doesn't love them it's fine).

he's very worried about J but doesn't know how to help him so he settles for being very very observant and not being a dick to the others

(jackie writes i can't talk right now and aaron says "okay. do you want to play chess?" aaron beats him at chess and jackie writes i'm not the person you know and aaron shrugs, thinks i figured, and says "that's fine". and it is, really. he'd love them in any universe. he loves them whoever they are. there is nothing they could do to put him off. and a few minutes later jackie almost touches his hand but clearly thinks better of it and it's fine, he's fine, he's fucking fine)

[froguemorgue]

My favorite lams fics on AO3

(that I've written)

Inspired by Fargo (1996 film) and Gone Girl (2012 novel), but they're collaborating, set in the early 2000s: Fargo! The One In Which They Stage A Kidnapping (For Ransom), 42,671 words

Modern arranged marriage/wealthy celebrities and their stupid wealthy problems: The Last Great American Dynasty, 57,469 words

Romeo and Juliet with a bit of divergence from the original telling: The Tragedie of Two Young Lovers, 19,312 words

Reincarnation but it's through time-dilated dreams that they remember their past lives, set in the 1980s: Rebirth In The Age of Glam Metal, 11,590 words

Post/during zombie apocalypse. Frances Eleanor Laurens. Time skips. Society rebuilding/cult conspiracy stuff. Tallmadge and Brewster are there. Culper ring shit. Seriously one of my favorite fucking things I've written: When Falls The Colosseum, 31,000 words AND COUNTING, that's right, I'm slowly updating this fic as we speak!

And there are many more, some shorter, some longer, but I like these the most. Check out my AO3 account :)

[yr-obedt-cicero]

“I anticipate by sympathy the pleasure you must feel from the sweet converse of your dearer self in the inclosed letters. I hope they may be recent. They were brought out of New York by General Thompson delivered to him there by a Mrs. Moore not long from England, soi-disante parente de Madame votre épouse. She speaks of a daughter of yours, well when she left England,”

From Alexander Hamilton to Lieutenant Colonel John Laurens, [April, 1779] discussing briefly of Laurens' daughter, Frances Eleanor Laurens.

“—where the dull System of seniority and the Tableau would prevent you from having the important commands to which you are entitled; but at any rate I wd. not have you renounce your rank in the Army, unless you entered the career above-mentioned. Your private affairs cannot require such immediate and close attention; you speak like a pater familias surrounded with a numerous progeny.”

To Alexander Hamilton from Lieutenant Colonel John Laurens, [July, 1782] in part discussion of Hamilton's firstborn son, Philip Hamilton.

[foundingfatherjohnlaurens]

November 30, 1797

Francis Henderson was born to Frances Eleanor Laurens Henderson and Francis Henderson (this family and names🙄) This is the baptism record for Francis, indicating his date of birth. Source: London Metropolitan Archives

[affectionately-frankie]

I did more surface level research on Francis Henderson Sr's family. I did some basics back in March, which you can see here. Something else that is important for later information is the research into the possible descendants of Francis Henderson Jr, which you can find here. With new evidence that's popped up, I think it's even more likely that Francis Henderson Jr possibly had a child.

To start, as far as I'm aware, there seems to only be evidence of four children by Francis Sr and his second wife, Elizabeth. William Hoggan Henderson (1816 - 1897), Elizabeth Hoggan Henderson (d. 1828 aged nine), Janet Henderson Carruthers (1822 - 1856), and Robert James Henderson (c. 1826 - c. 1914).

William married a woman named Mary (1817 - 1906). The couple only had one child, Anna, born 1849 and died 1855 at the age of six.

Janet obviously married due to her surname, but I couldn't find any information regarding her marriage, or if she had any children. It's likely that the marriage was short-lived and childless, as she died at 34 and was buried with her parents.

Robert has the most sources out of all of his siblings (including Francis Jr). Robert married a woman named Haley Russel Salisbury. Apparently, she was born in France. They had at least three children, a daughter named Mary Phillips Henderson, born c. 1862, and another daughter born in 1865 probably named Isabel Henderson. They had another son, William H Henderson, born c. 1869.

I couldn't find any later sources for Mary or Isabel (but to be completely honest, I didn't look too hard), but I found one for William. He married a woman named either named Bertha or Elizabeth and had four children. Mary, born c. 1892, William, born c. 1895, George, born c. 1900, and....Mahala, born 1906.

Now, if you read the research I did on the supposed descendants of Francis Jr, you probably had the same reaction I did, of "Hmm??? Mahala???" While I initially wrote it off as a wild coincidence, when I went back to all of my previous research on Mahala (who, for the uninitiated, was allegedly the only surviving grandchild of Francis Jr), it actually lines up shockingly well. Mahala, her husband Coleman, and their children all moved to Rhode Island sometime between 1898 and 1900. I even pointed out in my post that the fact Mahala and her family decided to go to Rhode Island, where their supposed great-grandfather's family lived, was interesting. And Mahala isn't exactly a common name, even in this time period.

I don't know. It seems pretty likely to me that Mahala got into contact with her maybe-cousins and decided to go live with them. It's obviously just speculation; it could just be a wild coincidence.

I haven't done any further research because I was just eager to share after being gone for apparently eight months.

[coriline]

The newspaper talking about Frances, her marriage and herself

According to the Abeville Press and Banner, April 19 1876:

“My account of the former is, that he [Francis Henderson] was born in Scotland, and made his way to London when a young man, whether with or without family prestige I know not. He became, however, an officer in the Bank of England, and must have occupied a fine social position to have met there, on a visit to her relatives, the beautiful, accomplished and wealthy Miss Laurens, of Charleston, S.C.”

But there's other interesting phrases about the unhappy and peculiar marriage:

“The marriage afterwards referred to was one of those concordant discordancies, anomalies, or freaks of Venus that occursnce in a while, and I never think of it without being reminded of the Renard of the eccentric Judge Dooly of Georgie, who once said, that "if there were any two things God did not foreknow, they were, who a woman would marry, and what would be the verdict of a petty jury in Georgia"”.

“But the point to reach is, that Miss Laurens, with fortune, fame and rank at her feet, waved them off and married little ugly Frank Henderson [Francis Henderson].”

“The marriage was unhappy. We have heard mach of one Sir Harry Vane Temple in this connection, but this deponent knows nothing of his own knowledge and therefore forbears to state any more.”

And some phrases about Frances herself!

“Frances Eleanor Laurens, who had a career as remarkable as any lady we ever read of in romance or story. We will not publish all we heard of her, but it connects with our subject, and we state she fell heir during her life, to the famous Laurens Lands in Abeville Country, under the will of her distinguished grandfather, Henry Laurens, of which Dr. Ramsay, the historian, was executor.”

“The life of Mrs. Henderson was much prolonged — she lived to be near a hundred —”

And a fun fact, in this newspaper they called John Laurens "The Last Man who Lost His Life in the Revolution" and "The very last man who fell in the Revolutionary war"