#gimple and kirkman get me

[dukeofdelirium]

hi i'm just curious: is there anything in the AMC show you think was better (or equally good but different) than what was written in the comics?

Hmm, there’s a few things I think the show either did better or gave more depth than the comics. Gotta keep in mind that the comics in the early days weren’t as planned out mostly bc Kirkman didn’t know if he would be able to keep it going for numerous reasons, so some of the earlier issues are more fast paced and less fleshed out.

One of them being Shane. I do actually like that Shane is alive longer in the show and that he has that total crash out at the end of s2. That was really well done imo, even if most of s2 is a damn drag. That whole speech about how he’s a better man and better father than Rick goes crazy. However, my problem is that they should have kept Carl killing Shane in the show. Shane should’ve drawn on Rick and Carl should’ve killed him while he was still alive, not a walker, doing something Rick couldn’t bring himself to. This early kill sets up their respective characters and an aspect of their relationship the show didn’t replicate.

I also like Lori’s death more in the show. It was far more emotional and I think it was a nice change that both tv only watchers and comic fans enjoyed because of the way it was adapted—we all knew Lori was getting smoked at the prison but we didn’t know she’d go out like that as opposed to the comic where she gets shot and Judith’s legs get blown off 😭

Instead of Carl simply witnessing her die, he’s the one that puts a bullet in her head. That’s crazy and was a good change… unfortunately they didn’t do anything with that for his character and he was never allowed to express human emotion <3

I also think Hershel and Glenn both were allowed to do much more in the show overall, however I did not gaf for that voice of reason bullshit Hershel played with Rick in s4. Dumb writing imo. Beth was a nice change I guess, too bad Gimple got his hands on her and she was perhaps the first tv character to get axed for shock value and Dirtyl Dixon’s man pain.

Speaking of, Carol was a nice change… at first. Unfortunately they kept having her character development go in circles forever bc there just isn’t room for her existence in the story in the long haul. Nice character development to start, but she shoulda been killed off in s4 or s5 at the latest imo.

The Governor had more depth I guess compared to the comic where he’s more insane and psychotic, which I guess is understandable cuz no way could they have adapted the shit he did to Michonne or anyone else on cable tv. Still, I like that he’s a crazy demented bitch so. But that fits more in a comic style as well so hard to say.

Other than that, I don’t care for too much of the other changes. I thought the CDC plot in s1 was dumb as hell, and Kirkman didn’t particularly like that either. S2 was a drag but the Shane crash out was peak. S3 was a whole fucking hot mess with tiny glimmers of goodness hidden within it. But the Andrea death was crazy and unforgivable to me on so many levels. But then again I don’t think the casting was ever right for that character in the show. No hate to the actress but she shouldn’t have played Andrea, just my opinion.

S4 was boring as fuck for the first half. What was that dumbass plotline of Rick taking Carls gun away lmao, wack. The cannibals w Terminus were ok I guess, given more depth, but the whole Terminus game plan w that group wasn’t well thought out imo. I did like giving the Claimers more depth too. That whole scene was crazy in the show and very well done overall, even if I did have to sit through more Dirtyl man pain.

Aside from all that, idk what else if anything. I stopped watching the show after Carl’s death episode in 8x09 and I only watched that episode to say goodbye to Chandler Riggs. AMC flopped hard w most of s5 with that dumbass hospital arc just to kill Beth for shock value, they flopped even harder with s6 being filler BS and the only thing that saved that season in any way was Carl getting shot in the face, and s7 was a bust from the jump. By s8 that show had become the definition of an undead thing still breathing lmao. Carl’s death was the last straw.

[emsee22]

Some interesting Gimple interviews

Q: So many main characters died in season 3. Was there a conscious decision on your guys’ part as you mapped out season 4 that you wanted to lessen the kill count a bit?

A: ...So it’s just in telling the stories and seeing where the stories go. You can do that in any episode and even in its least incarnation it has a great deal of power, but you shouldn’t lean on that power. And just in the stories we were telling this season, it really didn’t seem like our stories with these characters were leaning that way. They often do and there are plenty coming up. And I don’t even mean season 5, I mean season 6 and season 7.

Q: Scott, your first season as showrunner is in the books. What was the most valuable lesson you learned?

A: You can do irrefutably impossible things with the right amount of planning and support from intelligent and hardworking people and pizza.

Q: Season four explored the things people do to stay alive. What’s the theme of season five?

A: Are we too far gone to be people anymore, to actually be human beings, to be able to relate to one another on an emotional level, to be able to live a real humanistic and emotional life — are we too far gone? Next season really is who do we become after that? Once that question is answered for ourselves, who are these people? That idea will be explored a few different ways. Commentary from me: I think we will see Georgie again once Rick and crew prove that they are NOT too far gone. This was the same question Heath was talking about with Tara before the PPP card. I don't think we will learn what PPP is until that question is answered.

Q: This season was a remix of the comics. Will you continue with that approach in mind?

A: Absolutely. As we said during our first conversation, in “Pretty Much Dead Already” when Sophia comes out of the barn, that’s a remix. If we use verbatim from the comic, that’s awesome. And if we have to change it, that’s an opportunity to tie character and theme to it in different ways. There are ways we even chose to remix it, like with Lizzie and Mika, to find ways to take things that Robert did. He long played that [with Ben and his brother, Billy] in the comic, and we can do the same thing even a bit longer than he did it just because I liked the way he did it in the comic and I wanted to turn it up that much more.

Commentary from me: He says they can take a comic book storyline and really stretch it out and do it a whole lot longer than the comic dead. Ringing any bells? Issue 44 anyone?

Q: Of the ones that I've seen recently, including "Daryl" and "The Ones Who Live," they've been driven less by a sense of survival than a sense of hope. And this seems to be the case, particularly after the pandemic. I'm wondering if this notion influenced the shape that this show and "Daryl" have taken.

A: That's interesting. I feel that hope has been integral to the show all along. Granted, it was sort of, "We can find a safe place; we can actually live. We can do more than survive; we can live." But then you get pulled down by the things you have to do to survive.

Commentary from me: This just makes me think to Beth's diary entry monologue in Inmates.

Robert Kirkman on if the Walking Dead will ever have a cure ^^

And this more recent article contradicts Kirkman.

[michonnegrimes]

We don’t take all of Andrea’s story and just give it to Michonne because Michonne has her own story. There is kind of a hodgepodge of like, this bit of Andrea goes to Michonne, this bit of Andrea goes to Sasha, this bit of Andrea goes to Carol… We pull stories and give them to different characters. - Robert Kirkman

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Breakdown of Emily’s “Talking Sherm” Clip

This dropped just the other night. Watch it below:

Okay, let’s deep dive. Thanks to everyone who sent this to me on various platforms. For those who haven’t seen it yet, this is a bit that dropped just the other day. It’s a TTD parody for a show called Sherman’s Showcase that aired on AMC during 2019-2021. 

And they have Emily as a guest, yelling at Gimple and Kirkman and AMC about killing off her character.

If that isn’t capturing your attention yet, let’s pick this baby apart, shall we?

FYI, the Sherman showcase was a comedy where they supposedly ran through the history of a fictitious variety show that ran for like 40 years. So, it would be like if someone did a history of The Tonight Show or something. But the show itself is a comedy based around the history of this show. 

The only big thing I’m seeing here is that there’s a lot of music and singing and dancing going on. So, perhaps it’s fitting.

Read more HERE.

They start with Chris doing a big of an intro, as he always does on TTD. His questions include “what happened to the funk monster?” and “Is Sherman really dead?”

I’m having a hard time finding out much about the funk monster, except that it’s a big part of Sherman’s Showcase and has its own merchandise in the AMC store. I think the point here is that we don’t know what happened to him, kind of like we don’t know what happened to Beth’s body.

And then there’s the “is Sherman really dead” line. From what I can tell, there isn’t anything that suggests any kind of death fake out for Sherman in Sherman’s showcase. Someone correct me if you know otherwise. I haven’t watched Sherman’s showcase, so I’m definitely not an expert. But it doesn’t seem like this has anything to do with that show. Which means it can only have to do with Emily and TWD.

Once they introduce Emily, she immediately jumps in saying, “Chris, I still can’t believe they killed off my character.”

So, just to state some broad, obvious things. Why have her do this? As @wdway said, if they were simply going for a funny parody of TWD, why Emily/Beth? Why not Carl? Or Andrea? Or Dale? Or anyone else? This is once again an example of what we’ve said over the years. Sure, other deceased characters get some love. They have figurines or show up in TWD games or trading cards. But Emily/Beth gets SO much more than any other deceased character. They promote her more, show her to the audience more, do more to remind us of her arc. There has to be a reason for that.

Also, she’s wearing pink. I believe it was @wdway who first picked up on pink as being a Beth color, and we’ve long believed that, though of course, without confirmation, it’s a just a theory. But this surely proves it. All this talk about whether a character is dead and Emily is there wearing pink.

Now, of course this is meant to be a joke and Emily is just acting when she says she angry with the showrunners and coming for them. But again, why do this unless there’s some purpose in it? I mean, it really doesn’t seem like they’re bringing back Sherman’s Showcase.

She has this weird line about how she makes her own weapons. We’re not sure what that means. I wondered if it might possibly reference The Red Machete, but I’ll admit I have no idea how it would connect. We really didn’t see Beth make her own weapons, so I’m thinking this is a foreshadow of some kind. Something we’ll see Beth do when she returns. After all, she says, “I’m coming for you,” which is future tense and suggests something that hasn’t happened, yet.

Then Sherman mentions T-Dog. They actually talk about him a lot for such a small clip. The first thing I thought was that T-Dog’s death was tangled up with Carol’s death fake out from S3. When T-Dog died, Carol disappeared for a few episodes and was presumed dead. They even created a grave for her. And there are a LOT of parallels between Beth’s fake out in Coda and Carol’s in S3. Daryl finds her knife. Assumed Carol was a walker, at first. Carries her out, bridal style. All similar to what we saw around Beth in S5. So, talking about T-Dog may invoke the death fake out.

@wdway then also realized that T-Dog’s name, by definition, has the word ‘dog’ in it. Dog = Sirius = return symbolism. So, there’s also that.

Finally, Sherman calls Emily Luna Lovegood. Again, just a joke that’s supposed to be funny, especially since Emily looks so appalled, lol. 😄 But there may be a clue in there as well. As always, I look to the character templates. I was thinking that in the Harry Potter story, Luna was kidnapped at one point, and disappeared, no one knew where she was. She popped up later in a dungeon and was rescued and returned to her friends and family.

But then @wdway pointed something much simpler out (like, I’m probably over-thinking it) which is simply that a blond actress from the Harry Potter franchise (Clemence Poesy, who played Fleur Delacour) has been cast in the Daryl Dixon spinoff. So, bringing up Luna Lovegood here could simply be a clue pointing to the spinoff in that way.

Guys, I was convinced we’d see Beth in the Daryl spinoff the moment Judith said the thing about Daryl deserving a happy ending, too. But if that didn’t convince you, I hope this little parody clip does. This is a MASSIVE clue. It’s completely intentional, and has no functional purpose other than comedy. It would have taken time and money (not much, since it’s short, but still) to produce, and there has to be a reason for it.

[my-mt-heart]

Oh for goodness sake! Kang is not a Bethyl shipper! I really, really Really extend my apologies @my-mt-heart since I know this is going to sound insulting (and I really do not mean for it to be at ALL) but if some of us are really going to believe in the futility of statements like that more than the stone cold FACTS of Caryl's relationship, maybe you should become a supporter of a ship that actually feeds your anxiety like Bethyl or DaLeah or Carol/Negan or whatever and stop torturing yourself. How many times does my-mt have to repeat the same stuff over and over?

Fact 1: Bethyl was NEVER intended to be romantic. The Beth and Daryl dynamic was literally a WHAT-if scenario that ended up with Carol dead and her daughter Sophia (Beth -stand-in Sophia) left alive. The responsibility would have fallen to Daryl one way or another and it gave us a glimpse into how he would have navigated through that. You see how he reverted back to his earlier season self around Beth. Thinking everyone (including Carol) was dead, not knowing what to do with a kid, how to guide them, if they are even suitable for the task. Blaming himself for Hershel's death. This is a parallel to season 2!

Fact 2: the lines Beth spoke that colored her interaction with Daryl actually came from Carol. There was a small scene back in season 3 after Daryl left with Merle, Beth verbalized her anger at Daryl for choosing Merle. But Carol corrected her thinking by getting her to understand who Daryl is, not what the circumstances were. It showed Beth as the immature one and Carol as the one who understood and accepted Daryl's decision without judging him for it. This comes through LATER in the season 4 episode with Beth and Daryl after their fight. The same thing is to be said with Daryl and Leah's interactions and why? Be.CAUSE. they are SHOWING and not telling us how Carol has ALWAYS been present in Daryl's Closest relationships no matter the dynamic! That should not threaten you! That should inspire and comfort you that Daryl's road always leads him straight back to Carol Peletier.

Fact 3: my-mt I am sure you can speak more on this than I could but I believe showrunners for a show as big as the walking dead could not possibly have amateur writers who do not know the art of storytelling. Even SG did wonderful for a time, Frank Darabont is brutal but a brilliant writer. Angela Kang has a knack for writing stories with a niche of upcycling storylines to reconnect beloved characters back together and I believe she was the cast's favorite writer for a long time! Trust the process. She loves Carol. LOVES Carol. Gimple loves Carol. Kirkman loves Carol. The directors love Carol. How do you get a spinoff with a character that nobody loves?

Fact 4: MMB was done with acting. She quit it to become a casting director which gave her a greater sense of fulfillment. The fact that she had dedicated 10+ years of her life and is EXCITED and CURIOUS (her words) about her character and the Caryl relationship and where it will go should be proof of how important of an investment this is for her. What are some of us looking for? Emily Kinney to go live and say "Daryl and Beth had older brother/dad/little sister/daughter relationship"? It really does not work like that.

Ugh. I can't speak for the Carylers who place more energy into straining at minute details and fraudulent claims and deceased characters than their own actual ship, but as for me, my bags are all packed for the spinoff because I am traveling with them to NM.

P.S. the bags are pink because its suits Carol. 😉

Thank you for articulating all of this so well. Anyone who reads my blog hopefully knows by now I welcome all opinions and am always open to discussion, but sometimes the negativity confuses me to the point of not knowing how I can be of any use.

I’ve always seen Daryl’s and Beth’s dynamic as a reluctant mentorship because after seeing what happened to Sophia, Daryl wouldn’t want to let himself get too attached to another kid. It never occurred to me before that it could serve as a glimpse of what could’ve been if Carol’s and Sophia’s fates were reversed. That’s a great interpretation. I also love what you said about all of Daryl’s relationships connecting back to Carol. I absolutely believe if it wasn’t for her reaching out to Daryl initially and putting it in his head that he was worthy of belonging, he’d never be motivated to try.

I won’t get too deep into the inner workings of a writers’ room right now because it’ll probably take forever, but one common misconception I’d like to address is the level of influence a writer (not the showrunner) has over an episode they’re credited for. AK may have written the script for “Still.” That does not mean she’s responsible for every storyline or even every line of dialogue. Every episode is mapped out by the entire room and the showrunner (SG at the time) has to approve everything and may even rewrite certain parts. My point is, having her name on an episode centered on Bethyl does not make her a Bethyl shipper.

And this may have little relevance, idk, but just to speak to your point about who is hired to write so there’s no misunderstanding, obviously the showrunner is going to want people he/she feels has a passion for the show and could contribute strong ideas that benefit the story they’re trying to tell. That’s not to say there won’t be creative differences, but I do wholly believe there is a collective love for Daryl and Carol as individual characters, for their relationship, and the idea of deepening their story in a spinoff. They’re the number one priority right now, and though it won’t be possible to satisfy everyone, there’s no way tptb aren’t going to try their hardest to do them justice. You can count me in as a witness.

[cryptid-in-the-apocalypse]

FEAR THE WALKING DEAD SEASON 1

A sign of the apocalypse has begun. Reports of a rapidly changing world for unknown reasons underscore this gritty drama, a prequel to AMC's uber-popular "Walking Dead." The story is told through the lens of high school guidance counsellor Madison Clark. The widowed mother is raising two children single-handedly and maintains a relationship with English teacher Travis Manawa, her apocalyptic partner. The challenge of blending their families is exacerbated by unforeseen chaos, and a necessary survival of the fittest takes hold.

First episode date: August 23, 2015

Related shows: The Walking Dead; The Walking Dead: World Beyond; Talking Dead

Spin-offs: Fear the Walking Dead: Flight 462, Talking Dead

Executive producers: Robert Kirkman, Dave Erickson, Scott M. Gimple, Ian B. Goldberg, Andrew Chambliss, More

Program creators: Robert Kirkman, Dave Erickson

🚨📢SPOILERS AHEAD📢🚨

This. Is. My. Favorite. Show. (Next to Wynonna Earp)

Let me give you my emotional rundown for this season. Going to get the negative out of the way first. Nick was a ✨pile of garbage✨ and from the 2nd episode when he proved nothing was more important to him than himself I hated him. I needed him to die. I craved his blood to spill across the land. But of course I never truly get what I desire in a timely manner so I had no choice but to suffer his existence.

Victor Strand. Oh that man. It was platonic love at first sight. The charisma, the charm, the personality, who could blame me? Still probably my favorite current character. Incredibly 3 dimensional for a gay character and a character of color and I will appreciate the full realization of him as a character and not a token gay/poc until my dying breath.

Madison, my heart and soul burn for this woman. She is fiercely protective and ready to kill in brutal ways if she has to. I would die for her. Her only flaw is that Nick is her son and she insists on keeping him alive.

Travis: Loved him. A good man. Soft best boy. Just doing his best.

Alicia, Madison's daughter. At first I thought she was a bit of a brat but then I realized that she needs to act out for attention because as much as Madison tried, that little bitch Nick took up most of her time and energy being a little bitch. Would sell my soul for Alicia

This is taking too long so speed run: Daniel and his family were top tier and I don't blame Daniel for a single thing he did (ex: Torturing a soldier keeping them caged in a neighborhood for answers when stuff gets suspicious). His daughter Ofelia is a bit of a brat. Travis's son is also a brat but he's a hormonal teen going through his parents divorce and his dad remarrying with a new family. But he did genuinely seem to worry about possible survivors. His mom was also great.

Anyway some shit goes down. Zombies are a thing. Military quarantines people in a fenced in block of homes. They end up taking anyone who questions them or acts sketchy to a 2nd location which naturally includes Nick's sus ass, and shit gets real sketchy so our group of Madison's family/Travis's family/Daniel's family go to the military home base to save Nick, who just happens to have met my baby Victor. They have to use a weird zombie cache the military had accumulated as a distraction to get in. Everything gets crazy and the group barely makes it out.

Strand promises to take them to Abigail to get to safety and so they head to his villa. Abigail ends up being his husband's Yacht. They're going to sail down the coast to Mexico to find some sort of salvation (allegedly). Our final episode of the season ends with a plot twist. Chris's mom, Liza, was bit by a zombie in the escape from the military facility and begs Madison to shoot her so Chris and Travis don't have to. Madison, being the bad bitch I love, does.x so with no hesitation.

9/10 💀

Truly amazing characters and idaf what other people say, a much more engaging show than the original.  

[wolfwhiteflowers]

Unpopular Opinion/Speculations about what Carol and Daryl on what they might do in the Caryl spin-off show & the Rick movies. I’m always just not with the majority in..the Caryl fandom. :\ 

Anyway I kinda sense there might be different opinions going on with the Caryl show and the future of TWD. ~Fandoms always have drama~

Yeah, it’s like just me and few people thinking alike while the majority disagrees with me. :(

I’m thinking the Caryl spin-off show is based on TWD show which is in my opinion is about the story of the Grimes(and TF). Caryl is and will be always be connected to the Grimes/Rick. That is where they’re from.  

I want the spin-off show to be somewhat connected to the Rick movies/story. (majorly or subtle) I think Gimple would want it to be like connected/ since he got the TWD Universe going and ..they all are connected too. Like FTWD have Morgan, mentions a group from CRM or a community that knows them. TWD:WB is a show about learning what CRM is and what they do. They are all like connecting to Rick movies/story. And I think some characters from FTWD and TWD:WB will be in the movies. I even think Carol and Daryl will be part of it too. (Michonne left onto finding Rick, and she will be in the movie(s)) And even some TWD characters-like Idk Aaron, Rosita, Maggie. 

But .. fandom are very doubtful of the movies and some think it’s only about Rick (and Michonne). Some fans don’t care about Rick at all and just want Caryl to be not anywhere near to the Grimes...when it’s canon that Caryl care about the Grimes. They were part of Team Family. 

Idk I just feel some fans are projecting and predicting on what they want/hope and not what they think will actually happen. Or I’m saying they’re projecting too much. I think a lot of fans believe the Caryl show will happen because Gimple/Kang set a date out and talked about it. The Rick movies didn’t have a date out at first(they announced it too early and then they said it’s gonna be theatrical-very early news!) and they frustrated the fans by not saying much, but there are some news that they’re done(?) with the scripts, producing things, saying the movies take longer to make, and ...there haven’t been any news of Rick movies NOT happening. I actually think they would be filming 2021 (or after TWD:WB s2/final season ends). 

 So, yeah...fandom is not on the same page. Idk..I just don’t like the snark and the pettiness, etc. So, I think there’s this TWD Universe planned out by Gimple and Kirkman, and I think the Caryl show is part of it. 

I think the Caryl show might have:

- Caryl looking after the Grimes kids and Lydia

- Caryl without Grimes kids but searching for Rick -it can be very subtle too.

- Caryl traveling and later search for Rick

-Caryl traveling and knows about the plan to do with Rick and is looking for people to help Rick’s plan. 

- Caryl traveling and later end up being part of the Rick movies like movie #3. Idk

- etc. / Caryl still be Caryl and can still be having fun and be peaceful. It’s also a series; not a five episode arc. 

So..yeah majority thinks Caryl is/should not be part of Rick movies/TWD universe. idk why. Is it because they don’t like Rick, they doubt the Rick movies, tired of TWD universe stuff? To me Caryl not connecting with Grimes/TWD/TF is odd to me. There are already some fandom disagreement that fans want Caryl to be in-character..and asking why are they leaving TF/ASZ? That’s a big question that writers gotta get into and answer. 

But it’s all a waiting-game ..and whatever the writers will do and if I will like it. I also think it’s what a person thinks on what is a spin-off show is, how much is the spin-off show related to the Rick movies & the Grimes story, and what do they think Caryl will do in the spin-off.  

[reallygroovyninja]

The Sad & Current State of Fear The Walking Dead by Stephen Vivian

Link

When Fear The Walking Dead debuted in 2015 it became the most watched pilot episode in Cable TV history. Today, in it’s current fifth season, it whimpers along with less than a million and a half of live viewers. While the show’s ratings have steadily declined since it’s debut to 10.13 million viewers just over four years ago, it’s current reboot under co-showrunner’s and executive producers Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg is a far cry from a success.

In fact, less than two seasons into their reboot the show has gone from an 83% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes to a 66% amongst critics. And even worse, the audience score has dropped from 72% to an abysmal 36%.

This steep decline in quality has been a concern for die-hard fans who believed the show had finally found its footing in its season three outing. During that season the show stabilized it’s ratings and improved it’s critical consensus and it appeared the show was on track to outpace its parent series in quality. But less than two years later The Walking Dead has seen a resurgence in quality while Fear has dropped to all-time lows.

So what went wrong?

ERICKSON OUT; GIMPLE, CHAMBLISS and GOLDBERG IN

Fear was co-created by Robert Kirkman, who created the original comic series The Walking Dead, and Dave Erickson. Erickson served as showrunner for the first three seasons and it was his vision for the show to set itself apart from its parent series by focusing on a gritty family drama set amidst the growing apocalypse. His focus on the Clark family was taking shape and by season three it was apparent that lead actress Kim Dickens’ character, Madison Clark, was being written to serve not only as the shows main antihero but it’s burgeoning villain. She had done everything in the name of survival and didn’t take bullshit from anyone.

Her defining moment came in the two-part season three opener where she declared that it was their fate to take the ranch from its current leadership and that it would be their right to take it if it secured their survival. And so began Madison’s manipulations, starting with her and her kids ingratiating themselves into the Otto’s lives to prove their worth and keep them apart of the inner workings of the ranch. This mission – and her brutality in carrying it out – were beginning to take its toll on the very people she strived to protect: her children.

Alicia grew wary of Madison’s tactics and started to grow into her own, becoming a leader who undoubtedly would have to one day deal with opposing her mother as Madison reached full blown villain status. And even Nick, who Madison was obsessed with protecting and keeping by her side, began to see his mother’s brutality as alarming when she killed Troy with very little hesitation.

The dynamic between these three and how it would further be explored had taken the show to new heights, but sadly the writing was already on the wall when it was revealed that Dave Erickson would be departing the series as showrunner and was to be replaced by Once Upon a Time alums Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg, both brought in by Scott Gimple who had taken on a larger role in The Walking Dead Universe by overseeing the development of both shows.

GIMPLIFICATION

Fans were wary of Gimple’s new involvement with the series. He had overseen The Walking Dead for five seasons. And while seasons four and five of the main show were critical and ratings successes, the problems with his leadership began to pop up in a very divisive season six. By season seven The Walking Dead had seen a drastic downturn in both critical and ratings success, culminating with Gimple’s departure as showrunner after season eight.

Hallmarks of Gimple’s leadership – splitting up the cast, drawing out story arcs that reduced the pace of the show to a crawl, and having characters act and speak illogically and in repetitive monologues were now on their way to Fear, a show that had earned its success from separating itself from the identity of its parent show through showcasing a grittier, more realistic portrayal of the zombie apocalypse. Andrew Chambliss and Ian Goldberg were just the nails in the coffin as they would take these hallmarks and double down on them with reckless abandon.

DRASTIC CHANGES OF REBOOTING

The reboot swiftly introduced a time jump to bring the show in line with The Walking Dead for the sole purpose of crossing over Morgan Jones, a character whose story arc had been on a rinse-and-repeat cycle on The Walking Dead for far too long. Having him crossover could have been a great way to explore his character and breathe some life back into him, but sadly the showrunners simply doubled down on what was wrong with Morgan’s character in the first place.

Worse of all they decided to stunt all other characters growth and put them on a trajectory to adopt Morgan’s boring character traits, ultimately watering them down to unquestioning, idiotic do-gooders who do not worry about any personal matters but instead the larger group mission of do good at all costs; even if it means killing themselves to save someone who refuses their help and is more-than-likely going to result in getting more people killed.

The problems were readily apparent right from the outset of the first episode – an episode dominated by Morgan and new characters Althea and John Dory. No OG Fear characters were introduced until the very closing minutes of the show. And in the following seven episodes the original cast took even more blows, as both Nick and Madison Clark were killed off the show. The core dynamic of the show and the interesting premise of the original pitch of the series had been decimated in less than 8 episodes.

It was clear that Andrew and Ian had no regard for the cast who had been there since day one and who had given such great performances to carry the show to critical success. And once again they doubled down on new characters that had no depth, dimension or individuality in favour of propping up Morgan Jones as the new lead of the show.

BIGGEST GRIPES WITH SEASON FOUR & FIVE

The new cinematography style was to strip out all colour and use a hideous grey filter. Since the show was split into two timelines – the THEN timeline featuring the OG cast at the Dell Diamond, and the the NOW timeline featuring Morgan Jones meeting up with our remaining survivors – it was assumed the use of grey filter was meant to contrast the generally bright colours of the NOW timeline. Perhaps a thematic device to showcase the differences in the state of mind of Alicia, Nick, Strand and Luciana as they were on a mission of vengeance. But when that story was resolved in the mid-season finale, it was assumed we would return to normal colouring. Sadly, we were not.

Characters acting dumb, delivering nonsensical dialogue and out of character in order to service the plot. This is always one of the worse creative decisions a writing team could make and it was clear it was one the new showrunners were embracing. As I mentioned before, Madison Clark was a growing villain who would stop at nothing to keep herself and her kids safe. Suddenly in season four she was a leader of hope for the show, doling out idiotic, non-sensical lines such as “no one is gone until they’re gone”. Go back to episode 3x08 and listen to Madison tell her kids about how she killed her father to protect her mother against his abuse and how she was going to go talk to another old man, Jeremiah Otto, alluding to her reconciling that she would have to kill him to protect Alicia and Nick and you will see a vast difference in dialogue.

Gimmicks! The plot doesn’t serve to move the characters or the story forward in any meaningful or realistic way. Instead it’s as if the writers came up with these “cool moments” they think will look good on screen, and try to just connect the dots with nonsensical plot points and character direction to make it happen. Let’s not even get too into the airplane that they flew despite none of the people on the plane being a pilot, or the nuclear reactor breakdown that was supposed to present a huge threat but was resolved very anti-climatically.

And the cardinal sin that the new showrunners have committed is sidelining the previously well-developed OG characters in favour of new, poorly developed characters. First of all, if the decision to kill Madison off was to actually serve a true purpose for the story and the characters instead of this superficial “it’s what Madison would want us to do”, then the show should have rightfully been inherited by and led by Alicia. For starters, Alycia Debnam-Carey has a large following as an actress. And, as a character, is the biggest draw for the audience. Not only is she the last Clark standing, but she was on a trajectory to becoming a strong leader in her own right. But instead they felt the show would be better served with Morgan as the lead. It’s a shame because the show had a lot of potential by shifting focus to Alicia, but as it stands now, not even our OG characters or Morgan, the shows misplaced lead character, are strong enough to carry this show.

CAN THE SHOW BE SAVED? CAN IT DO BETTER?

I sure hope so. I haven’t followed steadily since episode 4x09. That episode bored me to tears. And no matter how many times I’ve tried to sit down and watch episodes from the latter part of season four or episodes of season five, I just simply can’t bring myself to do it. There’s just no motivation for me to keep watching. Nothing ever really happens. No one has grown in new and surprising or compelling ways. The show hasn’t had a message or a narrative worth investing in, because let’s be real the simplicity of “we’re here to help” is not a story. It’s a singular ideology adopted by EVERY character, no matter how senseless and idealistic it is.

I think there’s several ways to reinvigorate the show and get it back on track. To start, the show could learn to take risks. The show isn’t willing to take any risks right now and it’s painful. Given the world they live in and the threats they face, we should be seeing characters go down darker paths or even killing again. We don’t even get any real sources of conflict. It’s all contrived conflict to make it seem like there’s a threat to our characters when there is none. At. All.

Why not kill off a character without fanfare and have the real ramifications be the source of conflict. I thought they might have been able to pull this off after Nick’s death, but that fell flat too.

Imagine June dying and John growing darker wanting to avenge her. Imagine Morgan going all “clear” mode again and not coming back from it. He’d be far more interesting as a loose cannon who could no longer lead or support the people he rounded up into his mission. Imagine Madison returning in her true, pre-season four form and struggling to adapt to the groups mission and suddenly start pulling Alicia, Strand and Daniel’s loyalty away from the group. There are just so many, endless ways the show could create conflict without having to outsource it to inadequate villains, such as Martha or Logan.

There are so many themes to explore in a post-apocalyptic show. Season three was dealing with scarcity of resources and how it was causing conflict amongst survivors struggling to find supplies. In season five, it seems that they have unlimited resources with battery power for their walkie talkies, generators, video recording equipment, planes and hot air balloons. Enough already. This isn’t realistic. Logan, the shows current villain, if you can even label him as one, would be far more dangerous if the resources in the area were dwindling, as they would be, and he was pushed to the brink by trying to secure whatever was left for his groups survival. He wouldn’t be politely asking for directions to oil fields. He’d be taking it at gunpoint and killing people to get it.

The possibilities in this genre are unlimited. But one thing is for certain, since the show lost it’s true lead in Madison Clark, the series hasn’t felt right. Kim Dickens was wrongfully dismissed from this show, in my opinion. And until she is brought back I don’t think that the show will ever truly recover.

In short, Bring Back Madison, have her be the bad-ass, manipulative antihero she is meant to be, and have her character be a source of conflict for the group and Alicia. Imagine Alicia’s loyalties being torn between the mother she thought she lost and the group she has now called a family. Madison would be the best kind of bad influence on both Strand and Daniel, who were characters who thrived in the grey areas of morality under Erickson’s leadership, creating a far more dynamic and distinct direction for the series. It would also be a direction worthy of the acting talent that this show has in riches but sadly doesn’t utilize to it’s fullest potential.

[siancore]

Siaaaan quick question because I always found your answers interesting like all the writers in this fandom ; what is your favourite episode in the walking dead? And of course you can't choose 7x12 because it's too good to be with the others ahaha.

Hey, @hawajulayman. I have a few faves, so bear with me!

1x01: Days Gone Bye – Written by Frank Darabont:

Andrew Lincoln’s performance was brilliant. He carried a large part of this ep on his own. Lennie James was wonderful, as well. I enjoyed both Andy and Lennie’s previous work, so it was a blessing to see them together on my screen. Favourite quote: “Hey, you! Dumbass!”

3x12: Clear – Written by Scott M. Gimple: Carl, Rick, and Michonne’s little road trip where they learn some stuff and things about one another. We see that Rick and Michonne are more alike than we first thought. We get to see Morgan again! This ep was beautifully acted and the character development was amazing. Favourite quote: “I think she might be one of us.”

4x01: 30 Days Without an Accident – Written by Scott M. Gimple: Farmer Rick was interesting. I loved the vibe at the Prison and how much progress they were making. Some highlights for me: Michonne only really bonding with the Grimes Boys and bringing them gifts, and Michonne on a horse. Favourite quote: “Things break, but they can still grow.”

4x09: After – Written by Robert Kirkman: Awesome character development for Michonne and Carl. When Michonne finds Rick and Carl at the end, it was such a relief. Favourite quote: “It’s for you.”

4x16: A – Written by Scott M. Gimple and Angela Kang: We get to see some nice bonding between Michonne and Carl throughout the entire episode, even in the aftermath of their attack from the Claimers. Brutal Rick makes an appearance and everyone is reunited, albeit in less than ideal circumstances. Favourite quote: “They’re fuckin’ with the wrong people.”

5x11: The Distance – Written by Seth Hoffman: I love the difference in opinion between Rick and Michonne; while they disagreed, they never disrespected one another. I also enjoyed how Team Family stuck together, even at one of the most trying times. Favourite quote: “The fight’s over. You gotta let it go. I know it’s hard. After it’s kept you warm and fed…alive. But, the fight, it turns on you. You gotta let it go.”

5x16: Conquer – Written by Scott M. Gimple and Seth Hoffman: I liked the action, as well as the quieter moments between characters. Rick and Michonne’s interactions were great. I loved their scene when he admitted that she could have dissuaded him from his plan. Favourite quote: “I think you can find a way; we can find a way. And if we don’t? I’m still with you.”

6x10: The Next World – Written by Angela Kang and Corey Reed: I loved the Richonne Grimes domesticity; Carl showing Judy Pie the northern star; Carl and Michonne hugging it out; Spencer getting some closure; Jesus making his debut; oh and  RICHONNE GOING CANON! Favourite quote: “…It should be someone who loved her. Someone who’s family. And I’d — I’d do it for you.”

[grimecrow]

The Significance Of Carl Grimes... To Me At Least

I’ve tried writing this note so many times. I’ve tried to put into proper words and constructed thoughts just why Carl is so important to me but I always fail. I’ve often wondered if I have a full understanding myself; to be honesty I’ve often wondered if I actually have what could be defined as a partial understanding. Don’t know if I do but maybe it’s time to push ahead and try. Normally I have tried to do this by explaining the character, or myself but seeing as those never succeed perhaps it is time to try a hybrid of the two and hope for success. The usual reasons we end up choosing those we do as our favorite characters comes from the fact that they are the most relatable of those available to who we were, who we are, or who we wish we could be. The more in sync we are with the character in one of those three ways the closer we get to phrases like “Carl Grimes is my spirit animal” which I may or may not say from time to time.   Gah! It’s happening again! I spent all morning planning this out in my head and now that I am sitting here writing everything is all jumbled and jammed up again. If this ends up sounding disjointed or flat I apologize because I am going to push through. While Carl in the comics and Carl in the show have been portrayed very differently I think at their core they are the same character who is perfect, now I don’t say that lightly nor blindly. I know the character has a lot of negative traits and done undesirable things which to me makes him more perfect. He is perfectly flawed perfection caught in three dimensions. As opposed to other character even within the Walking Dead that are so flat and one dimensional that they really do look like paper cut outs living in a world that lives and breathes with depth and distance all its own. I guess I should tackle the elephant in the room first which is that Carl is a role model and champion to many who have been abused or suffered in their life. The show one more than the comic one because of reasons I will get into later as to why the amount of effort Chandler Riggs put into Carl was important. I consider this an elephant in the room because if you are in certain circles or communities you tend to know that this is one of the main reasons a certain percentage of Carl fans gravitate towards Carl in the first place and if you know that and I don’t address it then it could paint everything else I say with a brush I don’t want it painted with. Now then time to let my inner fanboy out and really jump into what makes Carl who he is.

Carl Grimes is innately good; he is innately good even though quite honestly there is a mountain of reasons; perfectly understandable reasons why he shouldn’t be. “Everybody can’t be bad” is his mantra, his way of life despite Shane turning out to be a monster, dealing with the Governor, the cannibals, the rape, the betrayals...he still keeps his belief alive. Sure you could argue that he is just trying to live up to his dying mother’s last words or the ideals he believes those in his life have instilled or placed upon him but let’s be honest if there wasn’t an indestructible core of goodness in him there’s no way. I think I can be honest enough with the fact that I have trust issues and I haven’t been hurt, tortured, almost killed, raped, left to starve or threatened by 80% of the people I encounter in my life. Now I know I shouldn’t bring religion into this as doing so is damaging to the discussion  for those that have issues with religion but the Walking Dead is what lead me to be Christian. Which must really be egg on the face of Kirkman and Gimple as they both have always tried to drive a quiet and small anti-religious sentiment into the show form the start but it wasn’t just Rick praying in the church, or Hershel talking about how Rick should be able to see God’s hand at work in his life. It wasn’t any of the Christian stuff that made me Christian, in a way it Carl had a big influence on that. To be 100% honest I think I was looking to find religion and this was more a result rather than a catalyst so don’t think I’m saying that Carl is a converter because he’s not. He’s an example. When I was questioning and searching I wanted to see an example in action and there is no better example of Christian ideals mixed with mortal flaws I have ever found. Carl is a tremendous example because of how good he is, how giving he, how he tries to help people, he tries to trust people and support the good in them. No matter the risk, no matter how little he has, no matter how much he has been hurt he will always try even if it ends in a bad way. Even if he ends up having to pay a high price...

If helping a stranger would risk your life would you do it? If it costs you your life would you regret it? There have been times where both versions of Carl have had to pay high prices for their kindness though I think it’s safe to argue the show one has paid a higher price but the comic version has also not gotten off easy for the high crime of thinking of others.

Yet there is never any regret; never any doubt about having to try to help the next person, to try to trust the next person. Yes even when doing so is in actuality a stupid idea that the character’s goodness and determination blind him from seeing for what it is.

I talk about how in the regard of helping others, and of trusting others he never has doubts or regrets which is true. In every other regard of himself though? Not so much. Carl is so...human. No matter what good he does, no matter how much he changes people’s lives for the better he can only see his flaws, his mistakes and his need to change them, to make amends. If you think I’m going to try to spin this as a positive trait you don’t have to worry I won’t be but it is certainly a very relatable trait. To see him struggle with it is watching myself struggle with it and we both have the same amount of success. His doubt and how he deals with it though is an inspiration to me. Again he has far more reason than many to give up and just give in but going back to that indestructible core I was talking about before he still has the strength to try. To doubt yourself to the point you question your own humanity...yeah it’s  more than relatable and over the years watching him do that but push on has given me the strength and ability to try as I may to do the same. He has had more success than I but he is stronger than I am; he’s fictional he gets to have the writers help him cheat. Though not once has he ever overcome in a way that is beyond who he is, or in a way that seems forced or contrived.

In addition to his beliefs Carl has managed to hang on to his ability to feel joy, feel fear and to be human. Carl is honestly never at his best when he is being ‘Carl, The All American-Boy’ or King Carl, or the bad ass kid. At least not for me. There is a certain hope to be found in the moments when like the one above and below this paragraph. As a person who has lost his ability to feel certain concepts at time these little reminders that despite it all you can, should and will be able to retain these abilities naturally and if you feel that you haven’t that you should try.

This is the concept I always have the most difficulty putting into words as on one hand you could simply state that it is simply retaining your innocence but that isn’t what it is. Carl knows he isn’t an innocent and he doesn’t act like he still has his innocence because he doesn’t nor does he act like he does. Some would say he is a kid who has been able to retain the qualities that make up what we see as childhood but even that isn’t true because he has a level of maturity beyond childhood. Though the immaturity of youth sure shows up a lot in some of his more ...aggressive... decision making. I guess I could summarize everything above as; because of his tribulations and his natural ability to never lose who he is; to be strong enough to retain his sense of self and his humanity is this beautiful thing I desperately strive for. The example I always reach to when I feel too lost and adrift; when I think I have failed or fallen too far. Why bother explaining it out the way I have? Because I’m hoping that I am saying more than I realize I am. I’m hoping that my phrasing, thought construction and the general feel of the piece is saying all the emotional stuff I can’t say. So I’ve shown Carl as this flawed, yet almost angelic character so far but there is another side of him the side of me that revels in the violence and blood. The side I latches onto when I need some inspiration or comfort that is more visceral. King Carl. The beast.

I know I should have chosen a more iconic moment to show this off; like when he tries to kill Negan on his own. Most of my examples haven’t actually been iconic moments save the second but it is never an iconic moment that makes a character great or shows off their traits the best. Everyone can have one shining moment of quality or flaw X. It’s the small moments, the consistent moments that seem to happen naturally and play out organically that show a character for who they are. Even when he is good, even when he does the right thing Carl can have this dark, dark edge to him that I won’t lie makes me hug the book or want to hug the screen.

The beast aka King Carl to me is what happens when the weight and effect of the dark things he’s been through have merged with who he is and who he tries to be. There is almost a primal aspect to this side of Carl and its something I can relate to completely as it is exactly how I am. It’s how I’ve always been, I try to either help or ignore you but once you’ve crossed that line or I think you will cross that line then I will destroy you. I am also very upfront about it when the time comes, and I am never satisfied with just blood, I never just get someone in trouble at their work, never just punch them I always go to quote Veronica on Riverdale ‘Full dark, no stars’. Well old me did, new me is usually not well or strong enough to really free the beast these days and I tend to now just cut things away. Less for what they did and more for my inability to deal with it the way my feelings and instincts wish to. King Carl is never without cause, without warrant but when he feels it’s necessary he both feels like a completely different person and the natural conclusion to his own life’s experiences mixed with who he is. Not only do I remember when I was like King Carl but he stirs within me and satisfies my own desire to see these types of actions and reactions in the world by allowing me to live vicariously through him.

This is going to sound weird or maybe like I’m making it up but it finally has clicked to me why I Carl is my favorite fictional character of all time. Remember at the beginning why I said we normally pick our favorite characters? Carl for me is all three; I’ve had the dark edge of King Carl (and still do as best I can); I right now very much have the same thought and flow as ‘I’m another monster too’, and I always want to try to emulate and strive for that unbreakable core of strength, determination, and kindness though much like the horizon I always feel like I can keep trying to get there but I will never reach it. Carl Grimes is my spirit animal. I’m hoping that by reading this it will help you understand what I’ve been going through; and why I feel the way about the character that I do. The more we understand each other, the better we can relate. Also there is always a chance that by reading this I have gotten you thinking about yourself a bit and maybe by understanding me more, help you understand something more about yourself which is always important. Before I end this I do want to take a moment to talk about Chandler Rigg’s portrayal of Carl on the TV show specifically and why he helped so many in the way he did. Television has a huge power that a lot of people never think of; a couple actually. First is that when you are so broken all you can do is sit and stare you can still experience television. Especially in the age of everything being available pretty much all the time. Loading up a scene on Youtube or an episode that gives you inspiration or makes you happy or gives you strength is so easy that few really can’t manage it. Also there is comfort in the fact that you know what happens once you are watching it for the second or more time so you will very rarely have whatever you are looking for or trying to draw from television actually pulled out or ruined for you. Second is that television is secret. Have a sexuality that you think will get you in trouble with others in the house? Feeling suicidal and found a character or story that helps you through but don’t want anyone to know? You can watch a television show that feeds, helps or supports you and no one will know. Television, watching and liking television is so ingrained in our culture you can watch a show that empowers or helps you escape from things you aren’t ready for others to know about without risking them knowing.

Chandler’s acting wasn’t always perfect, and to say otherwise is a disservice to him as well as yourself but he had never read the comics before auditioning; he didn’t even think a zombie show would do well. Yet he managed to capture everything about Carl Grimes so perfectly; he...in every scene he showed off and gave us all of Carl’s aspects for better or worse. He put so much heart into what he was doing, and it showed. For years in a show that at times didn’t seem like it cared or was trying he did his best to never waiver. Carl is a character that can give so much to those who need it and vibe with him  in the subconscious ways needed to potentially connect with a character. I remember at times I couldn’t think, barely move and when I was at my darkest unable to read at the time due to health issues I could watch Chandler Riggs as Carl clips and be pulled out of my darkness, out of my sadness and be given hope again.  His portrayal was just so great. I won’t lie he literally saved my life a couple of times doing what he did. Losing continued additions to that well on a going forward basis because as I have stated elsewhere I have so little that I can connect to; that can pull me up, that can save me when I need saving is a huge concern. One I haven’t really figured out an answer to yet aside form ‘at least I have eight seasons of material to draw on when I am unable to draw on new material from the comics. I know he will never see this but I want to thank him not only for what he did unknowingly for me but for some many others. There are testimonials popping up all over the place about how Chandler’s Carl helped them, about what he gave them it breaks my heart. Conclusions are always so hard for me; they’ve always been a weak spot. All I can do is thank you for reading and hope that if you haven’t yet found the character that does as much for you as Carl does for me that you do soon. If you have; well I then hope they don’t fall prey to a lazy writer or management of a company that doesn’t seem to understand what it’s doing.

[wheredandylionscometogrow]

Hey, happy holidays! I’ve heard you mention that you’re a counsellor. Does that mean you know a lot about relationships and signs people are attracted to others? If so can you name them so we can look out for them. I believe that there are obvious signs between D&A.

Happy Holidays to you too! And yes I am a licensed counselor. I more so am an expert of the development of humans from birth to death but there has definitely been some coverage of human interaction. Now the following things I’m going to tell you are solely my personal opinion.

Change of Character

Change in tone of voice. Women’s voice’s tend to go higher. Men’s voices tend to go lower.

Danai: “I don’t know Andy, what do I think about it…” “No, no one gets to hold my katana but me!” “We had a fun time with it right Andy?”

Andy: “I don’t need no music to prepare for love scenes with Danai Gurira.” “I’ll hold your katana darling.” “We’re playing footsies.” “And the relationship with me…”

Change in disposition. A person will subconsciously alter their typical behavior once around someone they are attracted to.

Danai is typically outgoing, loud (she said so herself), and likes to tease others.In the presence of Andy, that flips. She usually becomes coy, and doesn’t have much to say. She even begins to stutter.

ex: 1:55 - 2:10

In the presence of Danai, Andy gets confident and a bit suggestive.

ex: 0:15 - 0:21

Body Language/Non-Verbal Cues

Repeated or Prolonged Touch. A person can’t help but touch someone they are attracted to. Women are usually bigger offenders of this than men. (Men touching women without permission is typically looked down upon, therefore they tend to hold off longer before touching.)

Danai holds Andy’s arm for so long here until she realizes she’s been holding a tad too long and quickly removes it.

ex: 11:50 - 12:15

Andy rubs her back multiple times throughout this panel:

ex: 9:05 - 9:10

Personal Bubble. When attracted to someone a person usually leans in, sits close, or is found in close proximity to one another in a room full of people.

Andy and Danai invade each others personal bubble a lot. They can have a wide couch to sit on and will still be hip to hip. In cast settings there are usual right next to each or close by.

ex: 10:10 - 10:23

Suggestive gestures. Licking ones lips, pushing out the chest, wide leg stance, rubbing one’s own skin, stroking phallic objects.

Andy plays with his tongue quite a bit when looking at Danai.

ex: 3:55 - 4:00

Danai did not once touch that mic until Andy said something to her.

ex: 2:15 - 2:40

There are plenty articles out there on signs of attraction and what not but these are the main things I see Andy and Danai as repeat offenders of. Another main tell is that the people around them notice. Yvette Nicole Brown’s called them heat-seeking, Norman calls Andy out for checking out Danai during filming twice, Robert Kirkman talks about Scott’s pick up on the chemistry between the two and Gimple teases Danai about kissing Andy/Rick. The attraction is definitely there.

[nerdbrain98]

For the last couple of days we have all been ranting about Scott Gimple’s writing. I won’t take any of that rant back because aside from killing off Carl, the show’s writing has deteriorated. The characters seem to behave unlike their nature and events seem to happen without any consequence. 

A few examples to elucidate that: 

1. The Richonne Plot Line:

Richonne is probably the only good thing that is happening to the show right now. Precisely the reason why we forgave it when they botched up the whole build up to  Richonne before season 6 episode 10. Had everything else in the show been like it used to back in the previous seasons we all would have been pissed at the Jesse plot. According to Kirkman, they have been planning Richonne since season 3 which means they had 3 seasons to create a build up to Richonne. There was nothing except for the actors’ individual efforts to show that kind of affection. Suddenly they put in the Jesse plot line which made absolutely no effect on the plot or on Rick and Michonne’s relationship. All it did was make Rick behave out of coherence of his character. And after precisely two weeks after Jesse died tragically, Richonne happens. The Jesse plot line did nothing except confuse the audience and throw Richonne off the rails for a while.

2. Daryl and Tara’s Revenge:

Remember Daryl? Our crossbow wielding walker killer? Remember how he said back in season 2 episode 13, that he trusts Rick because so far he has done right by him? Remember how Daryl was the only one who was in silent support of Rick when everyone including his family was not only against Rick but also a tad bit terrified? I remember that. Daryl has always been different from the rest and tended to wander off on his own (perhaps because he is not in the comics and the pea brain writers can’t find a place for him). But one thing about Daryl was his loyalty towards Rick and his ability to be a team player even when he didn’t necessarily agree with the course of action. So I am pretty sure it wasn’t Daryl who I saw back in episode 7 of season 8. I mean seriously? I never saw Daryl thirst for revenge. But when it happened, I thought maybe there is a good reason for it. That there is a good reason as to why Daryl would be stupid enough to poke a hole in the sanctuary and let all the walkers loose, essentially clearing the perimeter off of the sanctuary. I thought maybe Daryl’s out of character foolishness is the reason why Negan gets out, that it somehow furthers the plot. But NOOOO! It was Eugene who got them out. Then what the hell was the purpose of that debacle? Was it some stupid way to fill some time up in the show. Why include something that would do nothing to influence the plot or the characters?

3. Negan: 

Stupid little prick named Negan, who the show adores. In the season finale of season 6, I thought that this baseball bat guy would be one heck of a villain. He was scary and eerily intimidating. The juxtaposition of his outward civility and sense of justice (in his opinion, of course) with the inner psychotic overload was a killer combination. But now they have stretched the Negan plot too far. He isn’t scary anymore and them miraculously beating the survivors every time is just annoying because it fails to create its intended effect. I know that they want to establish that the saviors are one tough adversary but we don’t feel that way, it just feels stupid because the saviors are not united enough to go through with all that survivor assault. They work under fear and most of their members are slaves who are not allowed to fight. Also we have been hearing about Negan for 2 seasons before he made his appearance and they have a lot of people, it is surprising how their existence wasn’t put forth more directly before. Something so big, actively looking for people is difficult to skip. So at this point they are neither interesting nor daunting. Just a repetitive pain in the ass.

Carl’s Death: 

Obviously. This was the last nail because this made me stop defending amc and the show runners. Chandler Riggs getting fired after he was led to believe that he had 3 more years to work which led to enroll his name in Georgia Uni and also start living in Georgia and that also a few weeks before his 18th birthday. It is clear as day that amc didn’t want to deal with an adult Chandler negotiating for his paycheck. So they made a hasty decision to fire him. This is probably one of those few rare moments when we can excuse Scott Gimple’s downward arc, as a by product of corporate profit motive. The fact that it was done to keep Negan around is either an excuse for the bad writing or a cover up for the truth.

The fact is that when the show began amc was pretty much nothing. They were creatively open minded to new concepts on television. But as soon as they started making enough, it was all about expansion. So now the show has a plot that is all over the place and I am sure that pretty much no one has a clue where it is headed. The show is more focused on shocking the audience than giving much importance to the actual content, that is the story. People are getting randomly killed off of the show to remove people from amc’s payroll. I have seen many good series go to shit like this. Any big show which goes on for more than 5 seasons inevitably fucks up the story.

I REALLY HOPE THEY REDEEM THEMSELVES IN THE SECOND HALF OF SEASON 8. WE ARE STILL HOOKED TO IT BUT IF THEY WANT TO KEEP IT THIS WAY, THE STORY BETTER START MAKING SENSE.  

[twdmusicboxmystery]

Rest In Peace Re-Watch

I watched Rest In Peace tonight from beginning to end for the first time in quite a while. Something occurred to me as I watched, and I just want to throw it out to you guys.

In the opening scene where Daryl and Judith are at the hospital, we see a walker with a large rock banging against the glass trying to break it. This is a direct call back to s1. A walker using a large rock to try to break the glass to the department store that Rick and a few members of what would become team family were hiding.

In both the episodes from the first season and the ending episodes of the last season we see the Varient walkers running, climbing and using tools. In between the first season and the last we saw no such walkers with skill. The thought that occurred to me was that the skilled walkers in s1 were in Atlanta where the CDC was and we know that they were experimenting trying to stop the virus and were in communication at least until the end with Paris and the Primrose Project.

Fast forward to s11 and we see the skilled walkers and we're now suspecting that the CRM has some type of connection because we have seen on the animated opening credits walkers that has some type of brain inserts. Could the fact that we've not seen anything in between be because the CRM had only recently been manipulating the walkers as a walker army?

Like I said at the beginning this just occurred to me this evening as I watched so it's not terribly well thought out but I just wanted to mention it and see if it sparks anything for you guys.

@galadrieljones:

I’ve definitely thought about the same thing before. Like, this is why I was very compelled by the heartless walker outside Toledo in “Evie/Joe,” because we know that Primrose Team was in Toledo at the time of the Fall, and after Jenner’s video talking about jumpstarting the walker circulatory systems, and the repeat instance with heparin, it seems like the teams were focusing their research on the heart.

I have speculated that perhaps the reason we’re seeing smart walkers in season 11 is because we’re in Ohio, at the Commonwealth. We don’t see them in Virginia, because the smart walker strains didn’t proliferate there. However, they did proliferate in Atlanta, where we know Jenner was doing research and possibly with one of the teams, working with the French, and they also proliferated in Ohio, where Team Primrose had been presenting their research at a conference.

So yeah I’m not sure if it’s more a function of when or where. Like I said I wondered if the reason were suddenly seeing smart walkers in season 11 is because we’re in Ohio. Like I can’t remember the exact tell and I can’t find it in my notes but I was able to determine that the Renaissance Fair they’re at in Variant is in Ohio.

@twdmusicboxmystery:

Yeah, for sure! That walker without the heart was just too strange and purposely placed to not mean something significant. I’ve never come up with any specific theories about it, beyond what you’ve both said here, but I agree. I can’t wait to finally get into the CRM story and start finding out! 😁

@wdway:

I just want to say I had forgotten about the heart Walker and you're right that is quite interesting and falls in line with the strangeness of what appears to be experiments on walkers.

The more I think about it I do not think that the original showrunner or for that matter Kirkman had this smart experimented on walkers by a government force storyline in mind but they did lay out some very interesting dangling threads of ideas that I feel Gimple seized upon and elaborated on that fit so well at this point to bring new life into TWD story.

I remember when Gimple took over in s4 Kirkman praised his idea with the storyline of the flu. Kirkman said he only wished he had thought of it himself. I think they work together in several ways to lay out a plan that went beyond the comic book. In watching the last episode last night when I saw that Walker hitting that window with the rock it was such a throwback scene to s1 which was so purposeful. They very much want us to remember those more intelligent walkers from the very beginning of the series.

@galadrieljones

I totally agree about Gimple. That sort of writer I think of as a “gardener,” ie: someone who is capable of carrying stories on for a long time even without a concrete plan in advance, because they can go back to previous writing and find little “seeds,” which can be grown into interesting, long term story arcs. He did that with Jenner’s France mention, Shane’s 22 necklace, the smart walkers, the helicopters, and lots more I’m not thinking of right now. He even used Grady Memorial, which is shown in the background of episode 2.1 when Rick et al are leaving Atlanta, and he’s broadcasting his final message to Morgan on the walkie talkie.

I think sometimes, too, when we see episodes that seem full of obviously loaded but super disparate imagery, episodes like “Clear,” that Gimple planting himself a BUNCH of seeds. Like he may not have had use for all of that that and, in fact, a lot of it is probably “nonsense” in the moment but it seems meaningful (ie: ABIBEL), and so fans grab onto it and remember it, so even if it doesn’t mean anything YET, it COULD mean something in the future, and because it’s so strange, many fans will remember it forever. I feel this may be what went on with the PPP card.

Even though the CRM was clearly in development at that point, probably he didn’t know much about the details yet, or he was still working them out, and there was this kind of scifi morally dubious research plot going on in his mind, leftover from Grady, and he thought a mysterious keycard with mysterious letters on it would a.) capture fans’ memories, and b.) give him something to draw from later. I really think that Gimple does this a lot.

@wdway:

I love all of these repeat symbols you mentioned above. Did you know that there is a 10:10 clock in s1 at the CDC? It's in a scene with Lori and Shane when Lori is looking for a book to read and Shane catches her alone. My point is that Gimple has a gift for using simple objects in a repeat to tie the seasons together.

@galadrieljones:

I did NOT know about the 10:10 clock at the CDC, and in fact that is very interesting because that Shane/Lori interaction has some interesting resonance with what’s going on at Grady. They’re at the CDC, which sets up an interesting connection in terms of scientific research, and also, there are major undertones of sexual assault in that scene with Lori, which is another connection to what happens at Grady.

Honestly, it’s a little daunting when you realize all this is going on, because it means that anything from past episodes can effectively be turned into foreshadowing at any time, and like we have to assume that if that happens, Gimple has a well-thought out reasoning for planting that seed. The connections between Grady and the CDC for example. There’s a lot loaded into that one simple repetition of 10:10.

@wdway:

I've been thinking about s1e6 TS-19 episode that shows the 10:10 clock ever since our conversation this afternoon and you had such good points about how it ties the CDC to Grady. Lori standing in front of the clock hold a book. This is the scene where Shane tries to sexually assault Lori. I also love the book that she's holding during the scene the title is Reasonable Doubt.

@galadrieljones

Reasonable Doubt? Sounds like a fine alternate title for Coda! Lol

@twdmusicboxmystery:

Lol. Right? 🤔

[ikkleosu]

Why I still think it’s happening and the other thing isn’t

DISCLAIMER: This post is in NO WAY telling people, or even asking people to have hope for Caryl. Absolutely not. Frankly, right now I’d stop people on the street and tell them NOT to ship Caryl if they can possibly help it. This post is ONLY telling those who are interested why I still think Caryl might happen, and largely why I don’t think CQzekiel is happening. I am writing it only because every time something new happens (or doesn’t) I get anons and msgs asking me my thoughts, and why I still hang on.

Truthfully, a lot of why I still hang on is simply just the way my brain works. It’s an eternal Pollyanna, just think of my brain like Bob’s game with Sasha. Whenever something potentially negative happens, I get irritated, despondent and then about 20 mins I’m going “yeah but what if?.... maybe this is setting up...” I CAN’T HELP IT. As long is there is a chink of light (in this case Carol and Daryl both alive) then I will find a way to shape things to fit what I want to happen.

Anyway, what I’m saying is don’t be hopeful, I don’t know if I’m right. I don’t know if I’m deluded. I’m just saying THIS is what I am tihnking.

So, here is the break-down of the whys:

1) The Caryl promo stuff - I know a lot of people think it's just trolling to get Carylers watching, with no plans to actually carry it out. I personally don't buy that, simply because there's stupid and then there is career suicide. I firmly don't believe that AMC is so idiotic as to repeatedly hype and promote a relationship (Even tweeting about it 2 days ago) with full knowledge that the show will do the exact opposite, in terms of giving those fans what they want. When you are desperate to get fans back on board - and believe me AMC are - you don't  deliberately do the one thing guaranteed to send all those fans packing, fans that you just spent money bringing on board. You just don't. Anyone with a brain knows it won't just put them off, it will guarantee they will never watch again. AMC wants Carylers to watch, yes  so they dangle the carrot - but they also want them to keep watching. And they know that won't happen if the other ship happens at the same time they are teasing Caryl.

2) Melissa. While we are all justified in not trusting AMC at all, and in believing Norman;s words are as sound as a chocolate teapot, the one thing I think we can rely on is Melissa. Melissa doesn't troll or tease. And Melissa has been consistent. She has never said anything to indicate Carol is set for romance with Zeke. Also, at the premiere she said - off her own back - that Carol is closest to Daryl. It seems unlikely she’d be saying that, reinforcing the idea of Daryl as the man dearest to Carol’s heart, if she was currently filming Carol undertaking a romantic relationship with someone else.

Melissa also gave us an abundance of Caryl titbits on Twitter last week. Now maybe she was told to do I by AMC marketing- in which case, see reason 1. Or maybe she did it herself, which again shows she a) knows what the majority of fans want and b) is reinforcing and reminding people of the Caryl bond and relationship - which i just cant see her doing if the show is about to be all about Carol and another man romantically.  To me, its just not Melissa’s way.

3) Khary. Three times now Khary has been asked about the chance of a Carol an Ezekiel romantic relationship, and three times he’s said “I don’t think it’s going to happen”

“I hope to see the relationship between Carol and Ezekiel flourish,” Khary told us on the red carpet, adding, “I am not sure that we will see it.” Well, that got upsetting pretty quickly, huh?

http://hollywoodlife.com/2017/10/23/carol-ezekiel-walking-dead-relationship-khary-payton-interview/

“She obviously has an affinity for him, but I don’t know how far that goes romantically. And I don’t know if we’ll ever see it. I hope we find out, one way or the other, what their relationship is, but there’s also a beauty in that ambiguity. But obviously, this show is known for stringing the audience along when it comes to relationships, so your guess is as good as mine at this point.”

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/walking-dead-khary-payton-ezekiel-carol-season-8-shiva-152712878.html

“Oh! You know what, I think that they are going to be great friends, is what I think. Because that’s what they do on this show. They just pull you along thinking that something’s going to happen. You know, because there are so many people that want Carol to find, you know, love and a relationship somewhere. And I, yeah, yeah, I just don’t think they are going to give it to us.” 

https://undeadwalking.com/2017/11/09/walker-stalker-con-chat-khary-payton-carol/

He is very clear, he doesn’t think it’s going to happen. Also, in the summer he repeatedly gave the answer that he honestly didn’t know. Now he’s saying exclusively that he doesn’t think we’ll see it. His answers are very different to Norman’s (usually dreadful) answers about Caryl, which always say he’s not ruled it out. Khary, on the other hand, has.

3) The telling of the comic story. It is very clear that they ARE giving Carol much of Michonne’s comic story with Ezekiel. But much like the Morgan and Tyreese stories, they are tweaking them and changing the dynamic.

It’s key to note that in the scene of Ezekiel revealling his true self to Carol, back in The Well, they didn’t include the overtly romantic parts of the scene from the comics (where Ezekiel says Michonne is exceedingly cute). And more significantly, in season 8, they have skipped over the window where Ezekiel and Michonne get together.

In the comics, Ezekiel and Michonne begin their relationship the night of the fight at ASZ that sends Negan packing to declare war. The next time we see them interact is after Shiva dies, when Ezekiel is despondent and Michonne punches him and calls him a pussy.

As we have seen, TPTB skipped over that relationship beginning with Carol and Ezekiel, and spoilers show that it is likely we’re about to get the Shiva death despondency. So we’re going straight from the beginning friendship to the antagonistic part of the relationship - and yes, I think that’s how the relationship is going to play out in the near future.

I don’t think we’re going to see Carol punch Ezekiel and call him a pussy… BUT the scenes of Carol being irritated by Ezekiel’s confidence and the specific dialogue from Ezekiel of “fake it till you make it, baby”, is a very direct set up for the dialogue in the punch scene. Michonne says to Ezekiel “If you’re really this much of a pussy, do what you do best… act like you aren’t.”

The fake it dialogue shows that Carol is going to bring back Ezekiel’s own words to him when he’s feeling lost and useless after everyone’s deaths. This is also reinforced by all Gimple has said about Carol and Ezekiel’s relationship - saying he looks foolish to Carol; his words about their relationship at the start of the season: “There are some intense times ahead for Ezekiel,” Gimple said. “Carol is not going to be surprised about the difficulty and brutality that they’re facing. Ezekiel is a little more new to this. The contrast [between the two] will be pretty stark.” showing how different their view points are going to be. And even Melissa’s words today, “She understands that, so if she has any reservations, I don't think she's putting it all out on the table. As long as they're heading forward and going to the battle to try to win this war, he can have his optimism.” Shows that conflict is headed their way - Carol is happy to let Ezekiel have his act and what not as long as they are moving forwards with the plan, but he’s about to go to pieces and stall, which means Carol isn’t going to be happy and will “put it all out on the table”.

Gimple and co have made clear Carol and Ezekiel are in VERY different places emotionally when it comes to battle, and while I suspect Carol will be far more understanding than comic Michonne, the above quotes show she’s not going to mollycoddle Ezekiel as a leader, suggesting she is going to be telling him he needs to “king up” and fake it for the good of his people.

Ezekiel is playing emotional catch up, Carol being aggravated by his failing as a leader, and Ezekiel’s feelings of impotence and depression are not conducive to the beginning of a romantic relationship. Kirkman knew that, which is why he had Michonne and Ezekiel get together at a happy positive point in the story BEFORE this would test their connection. Gimple and co have chosen NOT to give Carol and Ezekiel that bond before the conflict comes into play.

And also interestingly, notice that at THAT point in the story when they could have had Ezekiel and Carol get together, in 8x01, what did they give us? A Caryl hug and focus on their relationship that they promo-ed the life out of.

[kingtwhiddleston]

So...

Here are my comments about the mid finale:

-Michonne and Judith took my breath away

-Rick now (hopefully) knows that he can’t trust trash poeple

-Aaron and Enid... bad desicions were made

- Maggie showed everyone who is the boss, she was a badass

- Ok Jerry is to awesome for this kind of treatment

- Ezekiel finally got his ass up and fought for his Kingdom as the leader he is

- Eugene leave Gabriel alone

- Carol saved the day as always and propbaly was the last person on seeing Ezekiel again

- Simon you are a cool dude but fuck you

-My hate towards Negan has grew A LOT

-Alexandria is gone and that’s causing me a lot of anxiety and sadness

-Carl... I’ll go to him in a sec

-Dwight kinda has me trusting him there

-Daryl got concered, and he did asked if it was his fault, he really wanted to know that maybe he did cross the line

-Tara... you are really cool but shut up

-Daryl got his vest back FINALLY

-Daryl and Judith made my heart beat out of my chest ( And the Twins calling Norm ‘Uncle Daryl’ ahhhhh feels, just too much cuteness)

-And now Carl.... I love to see his character development through the years, even though latley he hasn’t had so much screen time, but in tonight’s episode I saw how he became a leader and such a pure soul.

Also everyone is saying he is dead already. People, from what I saw he was still alive and then the credits came up. He’s not dead... yet. We have to wait and see. Gimple and Kirkman are not that stupid to actually kill Carl ( hopefully). The theory goes that a Whisperer bit him and I really hope that’s the case, or I really wish this is one of those weird awaken dreams Rick has imagining that Carl is bit but then he comes back to reality and actually sees Carl and he’s ok ( I hope you get me). Also DON’T BLAME DARYL FOR CARL’S DEATH. Carl got ‘bit by a walker’ on last week’s episode. Because while I was watching the episode ending I realized that Carl already hide from The Saviours on the under ground water canals, and no scene was shown of him fighting a walker, that if any walker got into Alexandria. What Daryl did, and I’ll admit that I love him with my entire heart, him fucking up this time, has nothing to do with what Carl was doing by helping Siddiq.

-The actors and actresses who are working and acting their asses off for this show deserve so much more than this bullshit.

-And lastly... knowing that the ratings have been super low ever since season 7, Gimple you really know how to fuck up the show and make it lose more audience. Bravo on that.

[wolfwhiteflowers]

One of the recent articles about TWD stuff and things and s10. From Variety.

Ahead of its milestone 10th season, AMC’s “The Walking Dead” cast and crew assembled at the TCL Chinese Theatre in Los Angeles on Monday night for a special screening of the premiere episode, set to debut on Oct. 6.

“I still get nervous at these things,” Norman Reedus told Variety. Following the major character departures of Rick Grimes (Andrew Lincoln) and Maggie Rhee (Lauren Cohan), Reedus’ Daryl Dixon has increasingly assumed the mantle of series protagonist.

“They definitely have given me more to do in the last couple of years,” Reedus said. “But Daryl the character has some of the same things that Norman the person does. It’s like the ghosts of the characters that lived in the show before Daryl, he carries the weight of them on his shoulders. There are certain things that he’s learned from Herschel or Rick that are helping him make decisions on the show. Daryl without those characters would have made a bad decision. As Norman, I feel the weight of these great actors and actresses on my shoulder and I want to do a great job the same way that Daryl feels about the Herschels and the Ricks and the Shanes and the Glenns.”

“Norman is really behaving, and I’m sure it’s because of Andy’s influence on him throughout the years,” Melissa McBride (Carol Peletier) said with a laugh. “He was the leader and now Norman is basically number one. It’s from the top down so it’s very important that Norman impart all those beautiful wisdoms that he’s learned from Andy onto everyone else. It sets the tone for everyone and how they treat one another on set. It’s important to the family.”

“Walking Dead” fans will also have to brace themselves for another significant loss as series favorite Michonne, played by Danai Gurira, will make her exit during the upcoming season. Chief content officer of “The Walking Dead” Universe, Scott M. Gimple, told Variety that viewers will be satisfied with how Michonne’s story ends.

“It was one of the most important stories we were telling this season,” Gimple said. “And Danai is a writer of note, so she’s always kept me honest. The thing that brings out the best in ‘The Walking Dead’ is the pressure not to let people down. Not to let the cast and the crew down, but to tell stories that are worthy of their time and effort and so to have this kind of incredible story to tell for her final season, it’s a blessing.”

Gimple also noted that major characters are rarely ever truly gone from the franchise, which has spawned two spin-off series and an upcoming big-screen trilogy starring Lincoln.

“Rick is going to be our avatar once again to discovering a whole new world, yet we get to be with this character that we have loved and we get to see how everything he has been through is going to affect a brand new adventure and a brand new challenge for him,” teased Gimple. He also revealed that fan favorite Michael Cudlitz, whose character Abraham Ford was killed off during the show’s seventh season, would be returning to direct episodes of the third Walking Dead series.

Jeffrey Dean Morgan, who plays baseball-bat wielding villain Negan, told Variety that the character would continue his redemption arc and this season would see him finally released from the jail cell he’s occupied for the past year.

As for when he sees the show wrapping up, Morgan said, “You don’t want to run it into the ground. Me personally, I’d say let’s go out on top. Let’s go out still being the number one show in the world. Whether or not that happens, I don’t know. I think if we just stuck with the comic book, we’ve still got another three years. We do deviate a lot, but I think there’s probably a good three years of material there.”

“The Walking Dead” comic creator Robert Kirkman shocked fans when he abruptly ended the long-running book series in July. However, showrunner Angela Kang warned against assuming the show would end with the same conclusion and hinted that there may be many more seasons to come.

“Depending at the pace we go, it could be very fast at the end or it could be very slow,” Kang said. “We always fill in with original material. Robert said to me and Scott Gimple, look at all these threads that I set up for you, so the story could go a million different ways.”