#givehimthemedicine big analysis

[givehimthemedicine]

Big Analysis Part 2

Powers and Blood

[ Part 1 ]

I have a theory to tell you about Henry that's going to make a LOT of other things click. this post is less neatly segmented by topic and more of a swift erratic drop into insanity so buckle up. Long asf but I promise at least the first/main part is worth it.

warning: very high chance this post contains actual spoilers for major reveals in Stranger Things 5. I'll be tagging subsequent discussion of my main theory here with #st spoilers just in case.

after I establish that, I'll speculate about a variety of subtopics including:

Max waking up

[redacted] has powers

Why Henry wanted El to join him

How Will did the lights

What Will's spidey sense is

Henry's original interest in Will

What I think happened that night in 1959

Let's start with this 4x8 Brenner line: "when One kills, he doesn't simply kill. He consumes. He takes everything from his victims. Everything they are and everything they ever will be. Their memories, their abilities."

Brenner literally just saw crime scene photos of Henry's victims like the rest of us. where is he getting that intel? why would he know that?

"are you forgetting that Brenner saw surveillance of Henry killing all the kids so he knows how his killings worked?"

well sure, Brenner had plenty of footage of it, but what visible indication is there about Henry's murder method that he's "taking abilities" from anyone, unless maybe you could see somehow on the tapes that each murder got easier? his nose didn't even appear to bleed a little bit until the very end.

at the time of the massacre, Henry's only two victims that Brenner would already have the full explanation about were Virginia and Alice, because Brenner spent a while with Henry in the lab and probably forced him to tell all about it. So, taking their memories, alright sure, but what do you mean ABILITIES? did Henry suddenly like, get really good at knitting the moment he killed his mom?

Virginia definitely had powers.

the only way Brenner could be so sure Henry gained all the dead numbers' powers was if he already knew that Henry gained powers from Virginia and Alice in the first place.

Virginia having powers is how she "somehow knew" it was Henry giving them visions. she's where Henry inherited his abilities from in the first place.

just like El got hers from her mom. the powers really are maternally inherited.

MKUltra didn't give Terry Ives powers, it just activated the potential she already had. you can have latent powers and not even know.

anyway, Victor Creel must not have known about his wife's powers any more than he knew about Henry's, which is why he stayed blaming demons.

so Henry kills Virginia, and as he wipes his nose, his narration literally says that he grew more powerful. Henry killed Virginia not only to evade her plans to institutionalize him, but he absorbed her powers.

then Alice. little Alice is too young to have many atrocities under her belt - her only crime is being Virginia Creel's child. I don't know if Henry has much personal resentment toward her, but either way, she inherited those powers just the same as him, and he killed her for them.

It's why he "grows stronger and more powerful" with each kill - it's not just that the mere act of killing any old victim makes his powers stronger - it's that his whole thing is absorbing people. when he kills people who have powers, he adds their powers to his.

eventually Henry does the lab massacre, killing all the guards and orderlies and kids. his backstory would so strongly seem to lead him to be sympathetic to the lab kids, to kill their captors and free them - but to Henry they were just sixteen little power vessels.

moving right along: remember how we all went "oHH" when we found out baby El learned how to do the neck-snap and throwing-guards-into-walls moves from Henry? yeah, that certainly was how he killed those guys!

hey, wouldn't it be fun if we think about how exactly he killed everybody we've seen him kill?

Henry's Murder List

if we try on this idea about Virginia and Alice... would you say it helps a little bit of a pattern emerge?

everyone Henry kills Like That has powers.

everyone.

All of the cursed four have powers. Max has powers.

It's what he means when he calls Max weak in the same breath as calling her brave. he's talking about her powers.

and apparently Billy had powers as well. not through Susan but his own mother, coincidentally. "all the rest of them" we assumed meant Chrissy Fred and Patrick but actually means ALL the rest. all the kids, Virginia, Alice.

oh, is old givehimthemedicine just a reaching delusional Max fan who wants her to have powers? he's just talking about emotional weakness? because she's depressed and Henry "feeds on the weak"?

look in what context the words weakness and strength keep getting used in the lab. it's not emotional or physical. it's about powers.

hmm ok so you're able to write off the lights going blinky because that's a common occurrence for you? at the place where you and your mother live?

I know another kid who used to have electrical problems at his house. it'd be funny if you and he had any other paralle-

MAX MAYFIELD I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE :) :) :)

I don't think we know anything about Patrick or Fred's mothers, but here's a hint about the Cunningham family. Chrissy's mom also feels Henry but attributes it to a demon, like Victor Creel.

gates do indeed open by Henry making a "powerful psychic connection" but Dustin doesn't realize how accurate his wording is - the victims have powers too. Chrissy's major visions both feature her mother screaming at her to "open the door."

doors are what Henry calls gates. he's connecting his powers with Chrissy's to open a gate.

all this time I took this line to mean that El has the specific skill of opening gates, like how Kali has her own unique skill. actually it probably just means Henry wanted El's strength. like, her amount of power.

which brings me to El.

why Henry's favoritism towards Eleven when she was the weakest kid at the lab? was it just because she was the most empathetic of the kids, and he knew she'd offer to help remove the soteria if he was nice to her?

Henry wanted El at full strength because he had plans for her powers. and if any of those other lab kids were weak he would've coached them too, fattening them up for the kill (Hopper/demogorgon/last supper parallel).

so if Henry went to the trouble of coaching El to bring out her strength instead of just killing her when she was weak, that establishes that he gains more strength from killing actively, strongly powered people, and probably only very little from killing latent or weak people like Alice, Chrissy, etc. maybe barely even enough to be worth the hassle of killing them.

right?

no, see. that's why he Vecnas them.

VECNA-ING ISN'T JUST KILLING, IT'S ACTIVATING THEIR POWERS AND THEN MAKING THEM USE THEM REALLY REALLY REALLY HARD. SO HARD THEY DIE. SO HE CAN TAKE THEM.

he's giving the '86 victims traumatic visions and nightmares about the things that he knows causes them the most pain - to make them experience extreme negative emotion, to activate their powers. just like he did by coaching Eleven to harness sad/angry memories. they get nosebleeds, the classic power-use symptom, because of their powers being stirred.

and when he kills them, he's literally power-surging them. think of the way El bleeds worse and feels more drained the harder she uses her powers - except he doesn't stop when they pass out. he forces all the power he can possibly get out of them, past their breaking point, until their bodies literally shatter. this creates a gate, and he also absorbs their maximum powers when they die. maybe like all the powers they would ever have been able to generate, total ("everything they are and everything they ever will be"), all at once.

THAT'S WHAT THE GLOWING LIGHT BULBS THING IS, BOTH SYMBOLICALLY AND LITERALLY. A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF ENERGY BEING CREATED.

that's why the flashlight-shattering surge when Henry kills Patrick. Henry isn't just "making a powerful psychic connection" with random teens - so what? what would that do? - he's making a connection and forcing them to generate extreme levels of power.

that's what causes the huge electricity surge when El closes the gate - she's using her rage montage to generate huge amounts of power, the most we've ever seen her do - AND USING HER POWERS REALLY REALLY HARD MADE HER NOT JUST BLEED WORSE THAN USUAL BUT LEVITATE.

what if Henry didn't levitate Max Chrissy Fred or Patrick. what if their own powers did that?

so Henry probably got even more power out of each '86 victim than El demonstrated when closing the mothergate (because El didn't die).

now realize: Max got power-surged... but Henry got interrupted before he could complete the ritual. she died, yeah, but of a heart attack from the trauma, not as part of the ritual itself.

I don't think Henry had actually taken Max's powers yet.

which means....

I SEE A PATH CLEAR TO MAX HAVING ACTIVE POWERS IN SEASON 5.

and if Max wakes up with amnesia and her powers lost, which is entirely likely given the pattern - don't worry about it. Max has her own NINA: all those letters she wrote. if needbe, El now knows exactly how to train Max back into power, except this time by harnessing love instead of darkness.

now, back to the light bulb thing - when else do we see it?

in the shed when Will gets taken.

Will has powers too. but you knew that :)

Will's made the light bulb in the shed glow with intense emotion too - fear. the bulb didn't burst because he didn't die.

and if the powers are maternally inherited, Joyce has them too. and Jonathan.

this could be Joyce lightbulbing, but I don't think she's experiencing a psychic connection with Henry at this moment, so it might actually be Will again, afraid for Joyce.

while we're on the subject:

Who led Holly and Joyce to Will's room with the lights?

in both the Joyce and Holly scenes, the lights blink their way calmly down the hallway. the way they behave just feels like a gentle, friendly presence - just like they do as a result of Hopper and Joyce walking down the hallway in the UD. it feels human.

but I'm not so sure it's Will. even if we say he was just walking to his room the first time and accidentally led Joyce to danger, he probably would be careful not to do exactly the same thing to Holly.

maybe the calm-blinking is not a result of a friendly or human entity, but of a human with powers.

maybe that was Henry walking down the hallway. Henry blinking the lights, Henry playing the stereo.

Joyce goes back into the house after running away, because that song is a personal thing for Will. but that kind of stereo is battery operated and can't play unless the play button is pressed, which requires the presser to either have telekinesis or physically step in for a sec through a portal. if Will could come through a portal the show would be over, and I don't think his powers are strong enough to push a button telekinetically yet even if he wanted to. but most importantly, he wouldn't want to. the demogorgon was definitely right there, and I refuse to believe Will would lure Joyce back into the same dangerous situation she had just fled. being that Henry can read memories, he would be perfectly aware of the personal significance of Should I Stay Or Should I Go and wouldn't hesitate to use it to deceive Joyce. so why didn't she get got when she went back in there? idk, maybe Will created a diversion or something.

I'm also sure it was Henry mesmerizing Holly with that circle of lights, extremely similar to the light-circle game at the Lab he probably got really good at before Brenner put in the soteria. Will can't do this:

regardless, Holly was lured in there specifically, and the demogorgon almost yoinked her.

so Joyce and Holly were both targeted in season 1, and both when they were alone.

Will was alone, Barb was alone, there were apparently no witnesses to the other four yoinkings, so they were alone. the demogorgon doesn't usually like to appear in front of anybody except those it intends to take.

and can I remind you that every time the demogorgon came into the house to attack Jonathan, it didn't injure him at all. it just knocked him down and drooled on him a bit. it wasn't trying to kill. and can I remind you that Nancy was also there.

the Byers and Wheeler families both have powers.

dream or telepathy...

cruel coincidence or ESP....

if both Byers and Wheelers have powers, why wouldn't the demogorgon burst in while the casserole is cooking and yoink Joyce, Karen, and Holly all together? because then the show leaves us the deniability of "oh well it was after Joyce; Karen and Holly just happened to be there". same as "oh well it was after Jonathan, Nancy just happened to be there". showing us an isolated attempt on Holly makes it clear that Wheeler blood is a target.

Henry keeps targeting entire families except for the fathers.

because he's killing everyone with powers, and he knows the powers are maternally inherited.

Virginia and Alice but not Victor.

all the numbers and not Papa (he's not their father literally but he doesn't have powers and it works as a parallel).

Will, Joyce and Jonathan but not Lonnie. that's why Lonnie coming back was even a plot point - to show him being available for a demogorgon attack yet being the only Byers never to have an encounter with it, and not even believe in it.

Nancy's vision of something terrible happening to Karen, Holly, and Mike, but no mention of Ted.

How did Will do the lights?

Will didn't glow the shed bulb or his bedroom bulb on purpose.

his first intentional show of powers (that we saw):

the imagery of Will's flicker is exactly the same of baby El using her weak powers to flicker a single bulb in the light circle:

"but wait, why are you calling the lightbulb flicker evidence of Will having powers? we see non-powered people affecting light bulbs by touching them in the Upside Down, like the chandelier scene in 4x7."

correct, but. look at the Nancy Steve Robin Eddie contacting the kids through the chandelier lights scene. it glows in the RU when they all touch it, right? so they ALL have powers too? no.

any lights glow when any regular people touch them in the UD. touch them.

but only people with powers can make lights glow without actually touching them. Will can't be touching that light bulb in his bedroom for Joyce because it isn't even there in the UD. he can only be touching the empty glowy space where it is, like Nancy touching the lite brite.

btw notice how all four teens touch that chandelier but NOBODY EXCEPT NANCY ever touches the unplugged lite brite? sus. assuming the other three don't have powers, I suspect it might not have worked for them.

Hopper and Joyce walking down the hall - they didn't touch those Christmas lights. those weren't even there yet in the UD. that's not just human proximity turning them on - that's Joyce specifically.

Will could only have done most of the lights stuff by having powers. some of those Christmas lights blinked too quickly for him to have touched each bulb physically, besides the fact that he was a little guy, not tall enough to reach them. he didn't have to actually touch them, and again he couldn't have anyway because they weren't there yet on Nov 6. he's not strong, but he's activated enough to use his powers consciously now that he's been lightbulb-glowingly scared at least a couple times.

but that's only half the Will-lights question. that still doesn't tell us how he knew they were there in the first place.

Will in the UD has to be seeing glowy areas where the lights are, like how the teens saw the lights when they aimed flashlights at them.

failing Will having a flashlight with him the whole time (boring! spin again), I have three ideas:

theory one: Will's "true sight" enables him to see glimpses of the RU from the UD as well as vice versa and he did in fact see the alphabet without the aid of a light source.

theory two: Joyce has candles lit in the first blinky Christmas lights scene, and again near the alphabet. I wonder if firelight could somehow transcend dimensions.

theory three, which I like best: is it possible that the lights thing works both ways - that Joyce's presence in the RU made the Christmas light spots glow enough in the UD that Will noticed them?

the lite brite scene, as I understand it, doesn't conflict with this idea. it didn't glow in the UD because Dustin, Lucas and Erica were on the other end of it, and I have no specific suspicions that any of them have powers. if any one of them had powers, the lite brite might have glowed in the UD even without the flashlight beam. and then only Nancy touched it in the UD and made it glow in the RU. if I'm right about who has powers and who doesn't, that checks out.

what about the 1x8 scene where Joyce and Jonathan sense each other in the house? if this theory is correct, Jonathan (if not also Nancy) should be causing glowy spots along the ceiling in the UD. but the UD shots are all framed low, maybe intentionally avoiding giving us a good look toward the ceiling, and we would need a good look because these glowy spots would probably be quite subtle. so while this scene does nothing to confirm, I don't think it denies either.

Will would not have seen the alphabet painted on the wall, but if he noticed 26 glowing spots while hearing his mom say things like "talk to me!" he could maybe figure out what was going on, and maybe filled in his own alphabet.

the only hiccup is these two light bulbs I circled. because these would put 28 glowing spots on the wall and how would Will know that Joyce started with "I" on the next line instead of the top right bulb, and then the rest of the alphabet would be thrown off, doubly so at "Q". although if Will is able to make individual bulbs glow selectively just by his intent, maybe Joyce is too, and only the alphabet ones are glowing in the UD.

not perfect, but that's my best try for now, because it would also explain the bedroom light bulb.

What about the rest of the yoinked and flayed?

In season 1, a total of six people got yoinked to the UD by the demogorgon. Will, Barb, and four other randos. did they all have powers too?

well, Barb's nose was bleeding:

(Mrs. Holland I'm onto you too)

and if 2/6 had powers then there's certainly a case for the rest, but that's not a hill I care to die on. like, the elevator guy could've been a convenience yoink, just because he was right there where the demogorgon entered the lab. we know even less about the other victims. I could go either way about it.

as for the flayed, the only family relationship we know about is the Holloways, and since the dad was flayed too that doesn't perfectly follow the not-the-dad pattern (although flayings =/= Vecna'ings and I guess there's no rule preventing Tom Holloway from having his own powers from his own mother).

I'm definitely thinking Billy had powers based on that one Henry line to Max, but I don't think I have an objection to the idea of most of the flayed just being meat. although the flaying process (the tentacle in the mouth) could definitely be a means of both uploading possession and downloading powers. if that's the case, like 1/3 of Hawkins has powers I guess.

so was Nancy's theory about blood attracting the demogorgon right?

Nancy and Jonathan attracted the demogorgon by cutting their hands. Barb bled in the pool. Will wasn't bleeding, but he didn't need to be because I think Henry already knew about him some other way.

that deer was bleeding, Nancy said it had been hit by a car. was that to throw us off, to make us think the demogorgon is just attracted to blood in general? although who's to say it isn't. but it was eating the deer. it didn't yoink Will or Barb (who I think both had powers) to eat.

maybe the demogorgon could smell blood like other predators, but it could also tell regular blood from powers blood, and Henry didn't allow it to eat anyone with powers because he had more important uses for them.

so then if it's literally sniffing out who has powers as it goes along, how did it know about the Wheelers? it tries to yoink Holly episodes before Nancy cuts her hand. I would love to offer you a different explanation than that Karen was there too, and... I can think of a reason an adult woman could be bleeding. do I like it, no, is it possible, I guess.

so what is Henry's original interest in Will?

what if I'm not totally off base about rainbowshipgate? what if the lab, as of 1979, is already watching Will. as a member of staff, Henry could have access to their intel on potential new kids. that way at the time El banishes him to the UD, he already knows about Will. so when he finally gets back into the RU, he makes a beeline for Will.

is it possible that, when he first goes after Will, all Henry wants with Will is his powers like all the rest?

if so, why doesn't he just Vecna him? there has to be a reason he didn't want him dead quite yet. maybe these days Henry is working in partnership with the hive, and while Henry's goal was to harvest Will's powers, the hive also had the goal of spawning some new demogorgons, which requires live host bodies. the yoinked were all handled in ways that served both of those goals.

was Will even meant to survive?

This is gross but, let's talk about that vine in Will's mouth

I FINALLY just got the purpose of this weird ass shot of the alive/dead raccoon in the tunnels. I have never understood what this was supposed to be. It must be dead - it's partly skeletonized - and yet it looks like it's breathing. I never even saw this until I brightened it and slowed it down just now, but: when Hopper nudges it with his foot, vines burst out of the carcass, and the breathing stops.

I'm frankly still not even sure wtf I'm seeing here but it made me realize that the vine in Will's mouth is not just to deposit the slug, but to give him oxygen.

everyone else probably got this years ago but for the benefit of anyone else as slow as me, Hopper's Sara flashback is not merely a visual association, but a very literal one. although the slugging is ultimately a fatal process, Will is intubated and the vine is keeping him alive for the duration.

this is why the language around Will's slug is always "coughing up" and not vomiting. the vine and slug were never in his digestive tract, they were down his trachea. the vine has to be both an ovipositor and a breathing tube. I hate this subject. it seals off the airway, preventing the host from inhaling the UD's toxic spores, because if the host dies too soon it won't be any good for incubating the slug.

when the slug is ready, the vine must retract (so the slug can get out) and without supplemental oxygen, the host (if not already dead like the raccoon) immediately finishes dying of exposure. this must be what happened to Barb and the others. then the slug grows up and in a few days starts eating the host's body, which is why that other dead guy near Barb is a skeleton already.

I've been going crazy trying to figure out why, if Henry has some grand plans for Will right from the beginning, he would use him as a common demogorgon incubator, with no provision appearing to be made for his survival. (I guess Henry could've restarted his heart like El did Max afterwards, but eh). I haven't thought of an answer yet besides: maybe, at this point in time, he didn't?

maybe his original intent was to activate Will, take his powers, repurpose him for incubation, and leave him to die? and then after Will surprises him by making it back to the RU with semi-awakened abilities, Henry realizes he's become a unique asset? (this is a whole other avenue of thought I need to work out more)

so anyway, how could Henry have harvested Will's powers without killing him yet?

there's only one, one-off way we've ever seen Henry steal someone else's powers nonfatally, without Vecna'ing them, and that's El.

when the meat flayer bites El, a chunk of it burrows into her leg and absorbs a little of her blood. if the powers are genetic, they're in the blood, literally. El uses her powers for the last time to tear it out of her leg, and later, when the whole meat flayer arrives at the mall, it stops and bends down to that little chunk and absorbs it. in doing so, it absorbed her powers.

Henry getting her powers, sure fine, but where I'm still unclear is why this is a zero-sum thing and El lost her powers, because it's not like she lost all of her blood. (also does this mean that in the ST universe if you get a blood transfusion you might end up with superpowers?) there's something I'm still missing here, especially with that shot of the blood puddle sizzling on the floor of the grocery store.

anyway, we know Will used his powers in the UD in order to do the lights. and what happens when you use your powers? your nose bleeds. this is one way Henry could get a little of Will's blood without leaving a mark on him so the audience won't guess.

Will must also get amnesia from "dying", thus losing his active powers like baby El. or else it'd be hilarious if he's had powers and known all the answers all this time and hasn't mentioned it.

What is Will's spidey sense?

if Henry doesn't count on Will surviving his slugging, I don't see any motive for him putting soteria or equivalent into his neck before leaving him in the library.

as much as I like the soteria idea, I'm honestly not sure the simplest explanation doesn't cover it - that Will's spidey sense is just fear.

when Will's neck tingled when he was possessed, it was because the Mind Flayer (Henry) was afraid. they told us that very plainly with Mr. Clarke's dialogue.

when normal Will's neck tingles, it's because Will is triggered and rightfully terrified some UD shit is happening again. he describes it to others as feeling frozen with fear, cold, like dropping on a roller coaster. he also mentions feeling like he "can't breathe or talk or do anything" - sounds rather like symptoms of having a vine down your trachea, even if you don't know that's why.

but how does he know to be afraid?

I'm thinking that once Henry makes a connection with you, there's always a scar of that connection there, like how gates leave scars - the connection is basically opening a gate between minds. (remember Henry got Max and El from Max's mind into his by literally hurling/carrying them through that stained glass doorway. Victor breaks down that same door and stumbles into the war vision. doors being gates.)

provided there's a UD/RU gate open, Will can sense when Henry is near as a result of that residual connection, but intense fear may be enough to explain the actual reaction on his neck imo. he may not remember exactly what happened to him in the UD but frankly it'd be super weird if he didn't have colossal anxiety at the slightest hint it could be happening again.

Max is the only other person who's had Henry make a connection with her and lived, so if I'm on the right track, she should also wake up with a spidey sense.

Why Henry originally wanted El to join him

maybe opening gates is a 2 player game no matter how strong you are. if Henry killed every other powers person in the world, he wouldn't be able to open gates because he'd have no one to connect with. he had just coached El into becoming the most powerful kid in the lab, and that combined with their "alliance" put her in an ideal position to be his partner in crime.

maybe the thing about her being "superior" and shaping the world with him was just a lie to gain her cooperation? maybe, but the fact that he brought it up again in 4x9, years later and with nothing to gain, makes me feel like he kinda meant it.

this does very little to reassure me that Henry won't turn out to be El's biological father. he would've been 23-24 at the time Terry was involved with MKUltra, and having both parents involved with lab experimentation would align flawlessly with El's very Firestarter-esque origin story. if Brenner didn't actually orchestrate it, I certainly can't see him frowning on it either if he knew, as I'm sure he would be thrilled at the chance to study a double-powered kid (assuming he didn't already know it was only a maternal thing back then). although I suppose Henry and Terry could also have had a thing without Brenner knowing. I will be thrilled to be proven wrong about this entire paragraph.

Henry's "join me" to Fred and Max was more figurative I guess, in the sense that they'd be joining him in his mind once he absorbed them. I was gonna say maybe he figures one of these depressed bastards hates the world enough to be his player 2, but he didn't really give them a sales pitch or opportunity to agree/disagree before killing them. I do find it interesting he never said "join me" to Chrissy, and we don't know if he said anything to Patrick.

What happened that night in 1959.

the night Henry kills Virginia, the radio turns on to Dream A Little Dream Of Me, which is like Victor's Running Up That Hill, and serves to free him from his vision.

my question is: if Henry wanted to torment Victor, why would he turn on a song that would help him?

he didn't.

Virginia turned on the radio.

oh yeah, forgot to mention! Virginia's powers were active. not all of the weird stuff going on in the Creel House is Henry. in fact it's probably not Henry who started it. the lights flickering while Henry draws with crayons - pretty sure that's Virginia pulling a stunt somewhere in the house.

here are both POVs of the murder for you to refer to.

the radio turns on directly onto DALDOM (hm I don't love that acronym).

Virginia and Victor look at each other in a way that's easy to interpret as two people weirded out about the radio turning on by itself. but Virginia has a weird, almost pleading look. I believe she's just acting confused when she's really the one doing this.

Victor has no idea she has powers. he figures this is demon hijinks and that his wife is just as baffled about it as he is, and she's letting him think so.

just before Victor touches the radio, it starts tuning through different channels. and then the lights go crazy.

the knob starting to channel surf - I think that's Henry changing the channel away from DALDOM. how does Henry know about the RUTH effect? maybe Virginia knows - either from her own experience or Brenner told her - and Henry read her mind. anyway, Henry doesn't want that song playing.

but with the radio trick, Virginia tips her hand. if Henry wasn't already sure she had powers, he is now. (Henry's reaction to the radio is a major difference between the POVs - look at his for this part) he looks at the radio. he looks to his mother. and that is the moment he says that Virginia "left him no choice but to act."

what about this moment during a calm family dinner would necessitate Henry immediately killing his mother?

why would Virginia turn on the radio in front of Henry, knowingly blowing her secret?

it makes me feel like, within a few more seconds, it wouldn't matter to Virginia what Henry knew. it makes me think of the story Henry feeds baby El about how she needs to escape today because they're going to kill her. ingredients of that lie come from his own past.

what if Virginia planned to "kill him" that night - that is, fake his death so she could hand him over to Brenner in exchange for compensation (like she definitely killed that great uncle for his money I'm telling you). all she would have to do is incapacitate Henry and then call in Dr. Brenner under the guise of helping him, and Brenner takes care of the rest. He'd put on his usual fake death routine, perhaps even providing a fake body, same as with Will. (and ultimately this IS what happened because Henry pushed too hard - Victor is satisfied that Henry died)

all Virginia has to do is act scared, and blame for Henry's bizarre "death" would fall in easily with the claims of demonic activity that Victor has already so well established around town (the demon actually being Virginia, who's been doing spooky shit in front of Victor to make him think the house is haunted, establishing the cover well in advance of Henry's planned "death").

but Virginia doesn't know the extent of Henry's abilities. she knows he's been messing with their heads, but maybe she doesn't know about the telekinesis and electricity stuff - which is why she looks genuinely confused when the lights go blinky, because she knows she's not doing that. and then she turns back around with a brief look of oh shit before she zooms up to the ceiling.

congratulations Virginia, you played yourself.

but again, why did she turn on DALDOM? if the plan was for Virginia to do something to Henry, what did Victor need protection for? or was that her special song, too? Their Song <3?

Virginia probably figured that the second Henry realized something was going on, he would put everybody in a trance to stop them. maybe she figured if the protective song was already playing, whatever Henry tried wouldn't work. but she didn't know Henry could change the channel. whoops!

Dream A Little Dream Of Me

here's the part I've been over and over and can't figure out a good explanation for. Henry changes the channel on the radio to stop DALDOM. so then how does hearing that song playing save Victor from his war vision a minute later?

after Henry changes the channel, even while the dial is still moving around, the song persists quietly in the background throughout Virginia's death and Victor's attempts to break down the door. it stops when he enters his war vision, but a minute into that, he takes notice of it again, which is what pulls him back. yet as soon as he comes out of his vision, back into reality where the song SHOULD still be audible if it was really playing, the house is silent.

there is definitely some kind of third party bullshit going on here but I'm stumped.

I don't think I can blame Alice. her powers weren't active - she had to be given nightmares to stir them, same as the cursed four, and I don't even think a little kid is probably in on a family murder plot to begin with. and like, I kinda doubt she Vecna'd herself.

is Virginia not really dead? she looked pretty dead, unless that whole evening was one huge trance Virginia gave the entire family. but Henry's narration so clearly says he intended to kill Virginia and Alice and frame his father, and that he gained powers from killing his mother specifically, so I really kinda don't think it's that. even if Virginia could give him a vision of himself killing her and Alice, I don't think she has the power to also make him believe he planned all that and was pleased with the results. otherwise his recounting should have been more like "I don't know what came over me, but I killed my family and when I realized what I had done I passed out from shock!"

assuming there isn't an extra player lurking around the scene who we don't know about, I'm going to take one stab at it that's absolutely loony.

Victor has to be hearing that song from somewhere other than the radio. and we're hearing it all dreamy and quiet, not like it sounded when it was really on the radio. what if this is perception or time travel shenanigans? what if, somehow, our gang is on the scene - in Victor's mind, or in the Upside Down or some such unseen way - and THEY are playing DALDOM for him, to make sure the timeline unfolds right. because I'm pretty sure I do not hear DALDOM in Henry's version of the scene any time after he changes the channel. that's only something that's going on in Victor's perception.

idk. that's pretty wack and I hope we aren't going full time travel, but I got nothin else right now.

I am suspicious of that scene of Henry turning back the clock though, because we really never saw what results that yielded, if it was supposed to be anything but symbolic. but again Henry has no reason to want to play DALDOM via some time alteration shenanigans when he's the one who didn't want it playing in the first place. maybe if El/Max/Will/Mike/Nancy messes with that particular clock it could affect the timeline..?? I have no idea.

Why aren't all the victims' jaws broken?

@bugsbenefit here comes the part for you

I've seen a couple people question why Alice Creel is the only victim whose jaw isn't broken. she isn't, not when you consider the full list of victims. the majority of the dead lab kids are positioned in such a way that we don't see their faces, but the few whose faces we do see, their mouths are closed like Alice.

jaw breaking is pretty rare: only Virginia, Chrissy, Patrick and Fred.

Virginia is obviously an adult. Chrissy, Patrick and Fred could be 18. Two was the only lab kid who was likely 18 (if he was lab-born immediately after the program started in 1959, he could be up to 19) but the shot of his death is blocked so that his head falls out of view. (if you go frame by frame you can see that his jaw isn't broken, although the shot in question is of a stunt double, so I don't think we're supposed to take real notice).

Max is only 15 and her jaw is spared. it's an age thing.

but this may be less "Henry has a rule about not breaking kids' jaws" and more "the network has a rule about how gruesome you can get with minor actors" although I mean, is the jaw thing really worse than the eyeball thing, idk.

Tristan Spohn (Two), Grace Van Dien (Chrissy) and Logan Riley Bruner (Fred) were 18+ during filming. Myles Truitt (Patrick) is only a couple months older than Sadie Sink and it's possible that he was just barely 18 while filming his scenes while Sadie was still 17 during hers. I think that's probably the more likely explanation tbh.

if anyone can think of an in-universe reason for this, please jump in!

Some misc final thoughts

now it makes sense why Henry makes killing El's friends a distinct step from killing everyone. he means her friends who have powers. he wants to harvest their powers, but El is too strong a protection over them, and he can't get at them until she's out of the way.

--

still totally possible it's just artistic license, but every instance I can think of of lights selectively working in the Upside Down could be explained by the proximity of one of the people I think has powers. then again, the range really seems to vary, and I can't think of any UD scenes we've ever seen where nobody with powers was present.

--

there's sooo much imagery of power-people and opening doors (gates). this isn't even all of them, I just got tired of screenshotting.

--

could Steve have powers too?

he gets an "open the door" of his very own, and the demogorgon appearing in front of him says maybe so. I could go either way on the Russian elevator scene in which they're all talking about opening the elevator door, and both Steve and Dustin press the DOOR OPEN button and nothing happens. I'm not sure about Steve but I am squinting at him suspiciously.

--

jancy, byler, and elmax nations, congrats on shipping literal power couples. technically milkvans too but 🦴

--

I am curious why Mike has never really been singled out for monster attack like his sisters have.

Mike-gets-Vecna'd truthers... if the gang can break his trance at the right moment, that would be a very efficient way to activate not just Mike himself, but Will too, because he already has a residual psychic connection open and the sight of Mike getting Vecna'd would surely trigger such strong terror in him.

me @ mike: honey you got a big storm comin.

this concludes part 2 and now I'm off to let my mind reel with the everybody-has-powers fic possibilities

[himynameis4]

Max Mayfield as the Instigator of Flickergate.

Imma be so fr with you, i am not at all familiar with flickergate. But if someone in the stranger things crew is gonna be outside of time/traveling through time to send messages, communicating via dreams, etc… i think it makes sense for it to be max.

@givehimthemedicine ‘s big analysis had a really good argument for the process of “being vecna’d” basically unlocking psychic powers (ie venca traumatizing his victims w bad memories to make them emotional the way he had El use her bad memories to unlock HER powers, and then using that power overload to open gates, killing victims in the process)

So… if max has just had a power overload… and she’s in a coma & el can’t find her consciousness… max accidentally sending her own consciousness back in time w her newly-unlocked powers could work.

I kinda love the idea of max mayfield travelling throughout the years, messing with the lights & futilely trying to spare her friends some pain/save billy etc. Max being the one to try and stop Will from leaving Mike’s house by messing with the lights that night? Maybe Max messes with the lights during the sauna test with Billy to try and warn them earlier? And Max mentioned in canon that the lights in her trailer flickered—what if she was trying to warn herself?

🤷 idk enough on flickergate to rlly speak on this lol, but i rlly like the concept. what does everybody else think?

[givehimthemedicine]

Big Analysis Part 1

Gates, Demogorgons, and Tunnels

[ Part 2 ]

My attempt to iron out explanations for a variety of how-and-when type questions pertaining to.. well, it's there in the title. this is super long, but I really hope you take a look because I think I've got viable explanations if not The Answer for a lot of big questions.

Topics:

The difference between gates and portals

Is the demogorgon Henry?

Is S1, S3, S4 all the same demogorgon?

Why no more portals since S1?

Is Dart the slug Will coughed up?

Where was the demogorgon for seasons 2 & 3?

How the Russians captured the democreatures & particles

How did Dart get in Dustin's trash?

What's the deal with the tunnels? is that the UD?

The significance of the library in the UD

Why do some gates close and others spread?

Theory about the mothergate

Theory about it was a seven / 8:15

this post deals mostly with the literal and not so much predictions/symbolism/character analysis type stuff, but a few topics in the second half start to form theories that flirt with potential spoiler territory, so if you prefer to be surprised about the subject of Will's vanishing in s5, probably don't read.

these sections are ordered to build logic and Realizations as you read straight through, so although I tried to make it browsable, it REALLY makes more sense if you read all of it.

1. Gates and portals

distinguishing gates from portals is not at all my idea, but let me nail down the differences between them because it's super important for the logic of this entire analysis.

both are doorways into the other dimension, both are separated by a goopy pink membrane, but their other qualities aren't consistent. besides who made them and from which direction, some have vines coming out, some don't. some leave no trace, others do.

here's a list of all the different holes I can think of and different qualities they have.

grey is for things we weren't shown, but I filled in based on the logic of the rest and the fact that if it was otherwise somebody would've mentioned it.

so here's the distinction I'm making for the rest of the post:

GATES are opened by humans. they have vines and may be inclined to close or spread, but when they do close, they leave scars:

list of what I consider gates:

'79 in the rainbow room

'83 in the lab (the mothergate)

'83 in the classroom

'84 in Russia just for a minute

'85 under Starcourt

'86 Chrissy, Fred, Patrick, Max gates

most of these are explicitly referred to as "gates" on the show. "door" is also used sometimes to mean gate by both Henry and Alexei.

*vines are always characteristic of gates with the single exception that I'm not certain we saw any in the Starcourt one. it's clearly a legit gate - closing it makes the monster die. I guess it would have vines but doesn't yet, because Alexei says it's not open but openING. I'll remind you when this becomes relevant.

**it looks most logically consistent to me to say that gates always leave scars, but we were never actually shown what either of the laser gates looked like after closing.

PORTALS are small holes opened by the demogorgon which never have vines, always close up pretty quickly, and never leave a trace. list of what I consider portals:

the Byers living room wall, living room floor, living room ceiling, Will's room wall, hallway floor

the Nancy tree where the demogorgon yoinks the deer

the school hallway

the wall in the shed where Will got yoinked

the ceiling of the Lab elevator where the scientist got yoinked

the pool where Barb got yoinked

I can't remember anybody on ST ever referring to one of the temporary holes opened by the demogorgon as "a gate", even though they never explicitly discuss a difference either.

in contrast to gate scars, they make a point of showing that no trace is left behind when portals heal.

"but wait, the demogorgon is totally Henry, doesn't that throw off the data in your stupid little chart?"

no, not the way I understand Henry to "be" the demogorgon. I'll explain more in Is the demogorgon Henry?, but I believe all these portals are being, in deed though not in purpose, opened by the actual demogorgon.

"but wait, what about the time Will opened that portal in the wall??"

no he did not. that was the hole where the demogorgon came through to attack Joyce before - Will found it just before it finished healing.

now, one more huge thing: gates enable portals to be opened.

where am I getting this?

well, if Henry can make a demogorgon open a portal to yoink Will in 1983... why wouldn't he have just done that in 1979? why Henry's whole thing about needing El to open a gate for him, if portals are a thing?

just think: Will got taken when the mothergate opened, but he wasn't taken through the mothergate. the demogorgon didn't grab him in the shed, drag him 2 miles down the road, in the front door of Hawkins Lab, down the elevator [Will and the demogorgon awkwardly listening to elevator music], through the mothergate, back through the Upside Down version of all that backwards, all the way back to his house where they started. no, Will was taken right through a portal in the shed to the UD shed. so what did the gate even have to do with it?

the fact that the demogorgon never opened any portals until immediately after the opening of the mothergate tells us that it couldn't until then.

2. Is the demogorgon Henry?

for sure. but in what sense is critically important. I can think of three ways that we could say Henry "is" the demogorgon:

Henry shapeshifting? This doesn't work for me because I don't think Henry can shapeshift. I don't think what he does to Max in s4 is literally, physically changing his appearance, but rather changing Max's perception of his appearance, like what Kali can do.

and even if he could shapeshift, I don't think that explains what's going on. like wearing an Eleven Halloween costume doesn't grant you telekinesis, Henry shapeshifting as a demogorgon would not personally gain its abilities. and the demogorgon must have abilities Henry doesn't, otherwise he wouldn't need to involve it at all.

Henry tricking observers into perceiving him as a demogorgon? Nah. it showed up in Jonathan's candid photo.

Henry puppeting an actual demogorgon is the only way that makes sense. I believe the demogorgon of s1 is an actual demogorgon that Henry is controlling after possessing it with the Mind Flayer, just like he did to Will.

we see the Henrygorgon open portals a bunch of times, so by whose ability is this happening: the demogorgon, Henry, or the Mind Flayer?

it can't be Henry, because if Henry could open portals himself, he wouldn't need the demogorgon. and it can't be the Mind Flayer, because again, why involve the demogorgon.

portaling can only be the demogorgon's ability, and that's why it's very important that the Henrygorgon is physically a legit demogorgon that's taking orders from Henry, and not somehow Henry in disguise.

"but wait, if portaling is an inherent demogorgon ability, why hasn't the demogorgon been terrorizing Hawkins since forever?"

because you gotta have a gate in order to open portals, and there wasn't a gate open long enough for it to come through until 1983.

3. Is s1, s3, and s4 the same demogorgon?

No.

the one El dispatches in s1 is all burnt because of Nancy & co setting it on fire, but the s3 postcredits one has pristine skin. s1 and s3 are different individuals.

the s3 and s4 look very different, but this dialogue in Hopper's last supper scene explains how they're the same one:

You know why they feed captive predators live prey? Because if they don't, the predator gets bored and stops eating. It needs the thrill of the hunt. And this food isn't to make us strong. It's to make us plump. So we're full of the nutrients and protein that a growing monster might need.

in the s3 postcredits we see them feed a captive prisoner to it, and that's why it's skinny - it's bored. in 4, now that it's been hunting prey that can fight back, it's filled out, muscular, battle scarred. it's so buff Mike would have a poster of it if only it had nipples.

4. Why haven't there ever been any more portals since season 1, if demogorgons and gates are still both a thing?

I first theorized that the demogorgon's ability to open portals gets switched on when at least one gate to our world is open, and off when none are. but if that was it, then the Russian demogorgon should have started portaling all over the prison the moment Chrissy died. I had to get up and take a walk because this ruined my whole thing, but I think I've got it now.

the answer is in the very first scene of the show.

the scientist comes fleeing out from the gate room. but then the thing he's running from is somehow ahead of him, already in the elevator.

to pop out into the RU elevator, the demogorgon had to come from the UD. but we know it was in the RU once already before that, because it already scared the scientist. so how'd it get to the RU that time? it could not have come through a portal to the RU straight from its eternity in the UD, otherwise it would've been doing that since forever.

it's a chicken/egg situation that's only solved by the demogorgon coming in originally through the gate.

Brenner goes down to look at the gate, some guy says "is this where it came from?" and he says "Yes." why TELL us that? the audience can't just see "gaping eldritch hellhole" and "monster on the loose" and put two and two together? this must be REALLY important to be so underlined.

it is. they're showing us that the demogorgon became able to open portals between the UD/RU not just by virtue of the gate existing, but by coming in through it.

the Chrissy gate didn't make the Russian demogorgon able to open portals because it didn't come in through Chrissy's gate. more on that later.

5. Is Dart the slug Will coughed up?

definitely not. those things grow up very quickly, in a matter of days. Dustin found Dart as a pollywog almost an entire year after Will coughed up the slug so there's no way it's the same one.

6. Where was the demogorgon for seasons 2 and 3?

the Henrygorgon of season 1 is either dead or minding its own business in the Upside Down. I don't think it's dead because the same treatment didn't kill Henry.

"but wait, the mothergate was still open, if the Henrygorgon wasn't dead why didn't it just come right back in?"

the process of dematerializing it could also have exorcised it of the MF, so that it was no longer the Henrygorgon. or maybe Henry just didn't want to do season 1 all over again after he already got his ass kicked.

so if season 1's demogorgon is retired, where's the Russian one been during seasons 2 and 3? :)

you know how I said the Russian demogorgon isn't able to open portals because it never came in through Chrissy's gate? well, it never came in through any gate.

how could a demogorgon possibly get to the Rightside Up WITHOUT passing through a gate? there's only one way.

being born on this side.

:) :) :)

The Russian demogorgon is the slug Will coughed up.

"but wait, those slugs grow up to be demodogs, not demogorgons!" they're factually the same animal. here's an interview detailing the creative process for all its life stages from slug to demogorgon, in which ST's VFX supervisor states that the demodog is, quote, "an adolescent model of the Demogorgon."

I'm not saying "wouldn't that be a hoot," I'm saying it can't be any other way. the Russian demogorgon can't be the original one, because it isn't burnt. there were manymany demogorgons born in season 2 (Dart & friends) but it can't be one of them because they all died when El closed the gate. some demogorgons were born at the end of season 1, but all except one were born in the UD where their hosts died (we'll talk about this later), and aren't in play. that leaves only one unaccounted for.

Will coughed it up and it went down the sink, into the sewers of Hawkins. over a matter of days it matured into a demodog and started digging the tunnels of season 2.

7. How the Russians captured the democreatures and particles

Enzo tells Hopper that he's "heard rumors of a monster from America" and in season 3 Erica looks at a steel cage in the Russian bunker and says: "Hey Dustin, how big did you say that demogorgon was?" this spells out for us that the Russian demogorgon was captured in Hawkins and transported to Russia.

this is another reason the Russian demogorgon has to be Will's, and not merely one of Dart's generation that was allowed to grow up instead of being put into suspended animation in those tanks - they want us to know the Russians caught a demogorgon that was already an adult.

I think this is why they made a point of the Starcourt gate being "openING" instead of open - to rule out the possibility that a new demogorgon came in.

since the Russians never opened a gate long/big enough for any democreatures to come through, the demodogs had to be sourced from Hawkins also.

I figure the Russians captured them both underneath Hawkins in season 2.

"but wait, underground Russians were a 3 thing, not a 2 thing!"

you know how long it takes to move that much earth? to have that humongous underground fortress finished and functional by season 3, the Russians had to be well underway during 2. the scene of the failed Russian gate which necessitates them trying again in Hawkins is set in June '84 (that's between 1 and 2). they could have started any time from then on.

In 3x4, we see Hopper look at some land deeds - the people who own Starcourt (Russians) buying up farmland because they "want to expand" - dated 11/13/84. for context, that's like a week after El closed the gate in season 2. the Russians built Starcourt in 1984 to conceal their real construction project, the underground fortress.

so in the process of digging sometime between July-October of 1984 while the mothergate was still open, the Russians must have run into those tunnels that ran all underneath Hawkins. and at that time, the tunnels contained the adult Will-demogorgon and lots of demodogs. they captured the adult and several juveniles - possibly at younger stages when it would've been easier - and put them into suspended animation. they kept the demogorgon awake, and shipped them all off to Russia, where they started feeding the demogorgon prisoners.

"but wait, the Russian demodogs can't be from the s2 Hawkins batch! they all died when the gate closed!"

hang on, I'm about to explain.

now, how on earth did the Russians capture a hunk of the particles?

I can't think of an easier way to capture it than packaged neatly in host bodies. the demodogs the Russians captured were possessed,

"hold it right there, how'd they capture possessed demodogs? wouldn't they just portal away? wouldn't they be all rabid and invincible?" juvenile demogorgons aren't able to open portals. if they could, Dart would've escaped Dustin's cellar that way. and possession doesn't make demogorgons of any age invincible, it just controls them mentally. demogorgons can take 900000 bullets because they're just like that, possessed or not. strong skin or something. but juveniles aren't so tough yet - see Hopper taking out several of them with 1 shot apiece as El closes the gate.

anyway, they took a handful of possessed demodogs back to the facility in Russia and burnt the MF out of them, trapping their combined particles in that holding tank, and then placing the exorcised dogs into suspended animation.

the Russians definitely know about he-likes-it-cold. it's how they're keeping the swirling particles contained behind glass: they've got the area outside its holding tank surrounded with heating elements. it isn't captive because it can't break glass, it's captive because it doesn't want to go toward the heat.

this explains how these several captive demodogs don't drop dead as a result of gates closing: not just because they're in suspended animation, but because they're no longer possessed at the time the gates close.

think of Will in season 2 - they had to hold off closing the mothergate until they burned the MF out of him, otherwise as a part of the army, Will would have died along with all the demodogs.

see, the "democreatures all dropping dead when a gate closes" thing isn't because the creatures just inherently die of homesickness or something, it's because they're almost always possessed by the MF, and the MF is what "dies" (falls down inert) when gates are closed. if the MF "died" while inside Will, Will would have died, but exorcised Will survived the closing of the mothergate just fine, and so did these demodogs. in fact, the exact piece of the MF that was in Will was the piece that was in the flesh monster, and it did "die" when the Starcourt gate closed, which made the monster die.

s4 spells out for us that demodogs/gorgons can and do get possessed by the MF exactly how Will did (the dying Russian guard says that "the shadow went into them"), confirming for us the mechanism for s1's Henrygorgon.

we know the demodogs aren't still possessed while in suspended animation because the shadow wouldn't need to go into them if it was already in them.

"but wait, are we sure those demodogs were possessed in the first place if they were born in the tunnels and not in the actual UD? how did the MF get to them?"

they definitely were possessed because they acted as a part of the hive mind, but I am a bit shaky on how. my best explanation right now is that since the tunnels went right up to the mothergate, the MF could reach into the RU tunnels like it reached through when El was closing the gate, or the demodogs passed freely in and out of the gate and got possessed while in the UD.

8. How did Dart get in Dustin's trash?

my best guess on this one is disappointingly mundane. I saw that shot of Hopper seeing the dead raccoon in the tunnels, and I thought, how about if a raccoon was rooting around in Dustin's trash and coughed up a slug?

this led me down a much more important avenue of thought: where all those demodogs came from. by season 2 there are a LOT. I'd say 20-30 just in that one shot of them falling dead in droves when El closes the gate.

while we do have one demogorgon in play at this time, demogorgons themselves can't reproduce as far as we know. those slugs are planted by a vine.

live bodies are needed to incubate those slugs, but Hawkins is a small town and dozens more disappearances would've surely been mentioned. how then?

animals. Will's demogorgon yoinked any number of animals from the woods to host those slugs, and the slugs soon grew into demodogs which fed on their hosts' bodies.

only they weren't yoinked to the UD, but to the tunnels. that's what that area littered with bones was were Hopper got trapped, the place he called the "graveyard". a demogorgon nursery.

9. What's the deal with the tunnels?

the tunnels act as sort of a bridge area between the RU and the UD.

it's physically the RU, but so heavily infiltrated by the vines and spores due to proximity to the gate that it's functionally the UD. (like how vines and spores spread a little ways into the Lab through the gate, hence hazmat suits needed to even approach it).

it can't be the actual UD, because the hole Hopper digs through to access it doesn't act like a gate/portal. if the tunnels were the UD, if Hopper was even able to break through with his shovel (which humans can't do), he would have fallen into a gravity-reversed UD copy of that pumpkin field. instead, he broke through to a physical tunnel in the dirt.

10. The significance of the library in the Upside Down

ok this is one of my hair twirlingest sections in the whole thing

you know when Will pointed out that spot in the tunnels, and said it was important and the Mind Flayer didn't want him to see there?

and Hopper saw on the soldiers' video feed that they were in "the graveyard," that place Joyce and Bob rescued him from earlier? the demogorgon nursery?

but it turned out Will was just lying about it being important to get those soldiers sent to their deaths?

Will wasn't lying. It really is an important place.

the graveyard is where the ambush happened. and the graveyard is directly underneath the library.

not just because of the X clue, but because, remember how I called the graveyard a demogorgon nursery a minute ago?

and remember what happened to Will in the library?

as above, so below.

the library is the demogorgon nursery of season 1's Upside Down. all six of the yoinked were taken there to get slugged, not just Will.

"but wait, if they were all taken to the library, wouldn't Hopper and Joyce have seen their bodies there?"

they did. people seem to forget.

"but wait, how can Barb be dead in the library if Nancy saw her in Steve's pool in s4?" dead Barb in the pool was a vision Henry gave Nancy to torment her, not current or literal footage.

now check this out.

the Duffers have specifically listed the first Indiana Jones movie as one of their inspirations. remember that scene where they're searching everywhere in that old library for a "ten" marking the location of a tomb? and you know what a roman numeral ten looks like? and Indy finally finds it....

on the floor? and they pull up a tile and drop into a catacombs tunnel full of bones underground beneath the library? that scene sure was neato!!

more X / ten library refs

now remember in the Hopper-stuck-in-the-tunnels part, there's also a moment where he sees a spot of dense vines and tries burning them away and digging his way out? well the vines grow densely like that to cover holes - we saw them quickly grow over and conceal the hole Hopper originally dug into the tunnels. that's why he couldn't find his way out before.

does this not indicate that there was a preexisting but sealed-up hole right there in the graveyard... not another branch of walkable tunnel, but a smaller tunnel leading UP...

to the library??

someone PLEASE Indiana Jones the library floor in s5. it's tile.

"but wait, as far as we know, those tunnels didn't exist until s2, and only demodogs dig, and the only demogorgon in play was already an adult."

right, I am thinking that the slug Will coughed up went on to become the founder of the tunnels, which means that neither the tunnels nor the theoretical library-hole would have existed at the time of the s1 yoinkings.

either Will's demogorgon or any of Dart's friends could've dug the library hole (assuming there wasn't some preexisting ancient tomb under there) but why? why would they need a tunnel from the graveyard to the RU library? and from which direction was it dug? could the five UD demogorgons have dug it down from where they were born in the UD library? I don't think alterations made to the UD affect the RU, but could there be some loophole here given that the tunnels are almost like a bridge dimension? I need to think more.

I'll leave you with this:

remember where Henry found the black widow nest that ended up being his whole life's inspiration? in a vent under the floor in the bathroom? it's giving me Indy under the library floor BIGTIME.

see how the nest is also full of egg sacs? remember how Max stepped on some of those and little baby spiders came out? I just read a little about black window spiders and their egg sacs take about 30 days to hatch. would this be a fun time to mention that Will coughed up that slug 26 days after being rescued? and that Victor Creel said the family had "a month of peace in that house" before the horrors started?

I'm thinking the library was already a significant place for Henry in order for him to take the yoinked there. I'm pretty sure the tunnels were started after the yoinkings, so the graveyard was placed under the library, and not that the library was chosen for being on top of some geographical spot of preexisting importance.

this is where I'll need to hand this topic off to a better analyst because I tend to be too literal, but I think we need to talk about the possibility that something happened to Henry at the library, maybe in the basement. if that's where he took all the yoinked, it must be a significant place for him.

11. Why some gates close and others spread

does the opener of the gate determine its nature? that can't be it. El opened multiple gates that behaved very differently.

the Mothergate started as a crack in a wall and grew enormous. the Lab's controlled burns barely slowed it down its spread. but the rainbow gate was just big enough for Henry and then sealed back up in less than a minute. same with the classroom gate, it sealed up so fast that we didn't even see it.

so what's the difference? why was one huge and spreading and the others small and temporary?

I'm gonna get a little more abstract here than the rest of the post, but bear with me while I take a guess.

the mothergate was created when El made psychic contact with the demogorgon and experienced extreme fear, right? and Chrissy, Fred, Patrick, Max's gates are created when Henry made psychic connections with them and tortured them with fear, despair, hatred, guilt. notice how those are the gates that spread.

the rainbow room gate was created when El overpowered Henry by harnessing her single happy memory of her mother's love. the classroom gate was created when El had such protective love for her new friends that she was willing to sacrifice her life for them.

may I suggest that gate behavior depends on which emotion fuels their opening.

Fear, guilt, bitterness, hate festers. Love heals. but both types of wounds leave scars.

Stranger Things is a live action Monsters Inc

I'll grant you that this symbolism doesn't explain the two gates opened by Russian lasers, but maybe those sidestep the issue due to being artificially created.

anyway if 8-year-old El had successfully overpowered Henry using the power of her sad/angry memories instead of switching to love, that rainbow room gate might have been the spreading sort, the events of 1983/1986 could have happened immediately, and with baby El out of commission, the world would have ended in 1979.

warning - if I'm right at all, we're drifting towards what might be considered spoiler territory for the rest of this.

12. Why did the mothergate open where it did?

when Henry opened gates, they were all formed on the exact spot of the victim's body. and both times El opened gates, they also formed on the exact spot of the victim's body - the wall right behind Henry, and the chalkboard right behind the demogorgon.

if El was the opener of the mothergate, why didn't the gate open right on the "victim" - the demogorgon? and even if we've got it backwards and El is the victim, why didn't the gate open right on her water tank either? Instead of either location, it randomly cracked the wall several feet away.

the boring answer is they probably just hadn't thought out all this gate lore while they were shooting season 1, which was meant to be a standalone with no continuing story.

and while I think that's true to some extent, it doesn't even interfere with the FUN ANSWER, which is:

how about if the mothergate DID form exactly where the "victim" was, and the "victim" was Henry.

Henry, standing in the Upside Down lab during El's Russian spy mission. remembering how she opened a gate in 1979 and trying to recreate it - bracing himself against the nearest wall, knowing that if his plan works, and he can connect with El while she's psychically receptive and get her to experience extreme terror again, another gate will open.

13. It was a seven / 8:15

that seven could be more important than just to show that Will won't lie to Mike.

there are a bunch of other sevens on ST. now, this whole section could be a reach because plenty of them are unrelated, but I can't help notice that a handful of them pertain at least sort of to the bikes/Mike's garage.

"It was a seven"

the 7 on the license plate in the Wheelers' garage

what day does Hopper find Will's bike? the 7th

when the gang has to ride the Wheelers' bikes to Eddie's trailer, he says it's 7 miles away

and if we widen the search to include ones pertaining to DnD, we get a couple more,

Lucas cuts off the thessalhydra's 7 heads at the end of the same campaign

Mike takes 7 points of damage in the s3 DnD campaign

that's like half of the ST "seven" references that I can think of (though I'm sure there are more I've missed) that have some topical overlap with "it was a seven".

PS, the show that's on Ted Wheeler's TV is Knight Rider, and an episode of Knight Rider really did air the night of November 6, 1983. the 7th episode of the season :)

ok, now hold that thought.

s4 Robin says to Nancy, "I know your house is creepily frozen in time, but haven't you always had bikes?" so they take the Wheeler family's bikes to the trailer, and we get one of the coolest cinematic shots in the whole show.

Eddie is on Mike's bike. Nancy is riding her own (unless I'm forgetting, we only ever glimpse it in the garage-bat-practice scene; we know it's hers because it's a girl bike frame). Robin and Steve are on two adult bikes that must be Ted and Karen's.

IF I'm onto something here, this scene came [Vecna voice] so close to the truth, Nancy.

they didn't show us the gang finding and getting on those bikes. they didn't say there were only those four available.

what if I reminded you that we know a specific time frame on Nov 6 1983 - pretty wide time frame actually - when there were more than just four bikes at the Wheeler house.

between roughly 10am-8:15pm, during the ten hour DnD campaign, the party's bikes were there too.

how many bikes does that total? 7.

did I go all that way just for another obscure 7? maybe, but the part that makes me itchy is...

why did s4 have to borderline retcon the idea of Karen and Ted having owned bikes during s1, instead of just putting Steve and Robin on the party's bikes that we saw there canonically? it must be important that they didn't take those specific bikes. hold that thought.

now work with me here...

Will rolled the 7 at 8:15... 7 bikes at 8:15...

this ties in with my eightfifteengate hunch: 8:15pm is the exact time at which the Upside Down is frozen.

IF the 7 bikes thing is important, the Upside Down couldn't be frozen any later than 8:15pm, because the party went home right after Will rolled the seven, so any time after that there wouldn't be 7 bikes there anymore.

now, what doubt I have about the scenario I'm about to pitch isn't at all because it isn't feasible, but because the optics are delightfully goofy depending what we imagine Henry looks like in 1983.

I don't have a solid map of Hawkins, but I know the Lab and Will's house are closer together than Mike's house is from either of them. and our first two sightings of the demogorgon are at Hawkins Lab and then in the road near Will's house. Mike's house would've been significantly out of the way for a stop in between.

what if.... the demogorgon didn't stalk Will home. the lights flickering in Mike's garage? what if that was Henry himself.

I know, that immediately creates a problem: if Henry's at Mike's house, how could he be at Will's house in time for the vanishing? he can't teleport. Will's biking at a fair pace and even raced Dustin part of the way - Henry would have to haul ass the entire way?

you know what means of transportation is available that goes at least as fast as Will's bike?

Will's bike. the upside down one.

THIS is a scenario where it gets important for there to be 7 bikes. for Steve and Robin to have taken Ted and Karen's instead of party bikes.

if the UD is frozen at a time when there are >4 bikes in the garage - and we're certain it was that way at 8:15 btw - Henry could've taken Will's, Lucas's, or Dustin's bike without screwing up the timeline. so that Nancy, Steve, Robin, and Eddie could walk into the UD garage 2 1/2 years later and still find Mike's, Dustin's, Lucas's, Nancy's, Ted's and Karen's bikes.

Nancy naturally would choose her own. Steve and Robin would probably prefer the adult bikes. and Eddie, the newcomer, takes his pick of the kid bikes.

"but wait lol, if Henry had first pick of all 7 bikes why wouldn't he take one of the adult ones?" because he's a cheeky bitch and it'd be just like him to pick Will's bike? also Ted and Karen don't store their bikes in the garage and Henry didn't have time to go rooting around their shed or wherever they keep them while Will was already starting to pedal away.

PS someone please draw for me: Henry, in full Vecna mode, grumpily riding the only bike left in the garage because the timeline got screwed up: a tiny pink tricycle belonging to Holly Wheeler

anyway, 8:15 being the only moment during that night that they timestamped makes me so suspicious about it, because in order to call back to something later for a Big Reveal, you need to make note of it at the time - just not too noticeably. that's why Karen Wheeler opens the basement door and says "it's fifteen after!" and then they bury the "8" in a separate scene, later, when Joyce and Karen talk on the phone. they really wanted the fact that Will rolled the 7 at 8:15 to be documented but not obvious.

I'm still figuring out actual support for the idea beyond that and bikegate but I will keep these lights up until the day I DIE if there's a chance I can prove the UD is frozen at 8:15.

part 2 soon to follow :)

tagged: @mlchaelwheeler @himynameis4 @steviescrystals @strangertwistoffate

[givehimthemedicine]

some of the footage the lab is feeding El in NINA is of a MIRRORED Rainbow Room.

continuing off my recent post about why NINA has 4 cameras inside of it watching El. some more realizations:

those six screens around the sides are actually just the same three video feeds doubled. the only unique feed is the center one.

which gives us a total of FOUR feeds in NINA even though there are seven screens.

and one of them is backwards.

in reality, if you're standing at the mirror, the benches-and-drawing-tables side of the RR is on your right - as it appears, correctly, in the red feed and green feed. their footage makes sense coming from the cameras I've circled here (not the events within, I'm just talking about the angles these cameras see)

but the yellow feed has been flipped horizontally:

if we are SEEING the drawing/chess corner of the room in the yellow feed, that means it was filmed by the camera in the other corner - over by the plinko/puzzle table. that is the camera circled in this shot of El playing plinko. except we're seeing the wrong side of the room behind her.

"oh Nat, that's all so normal. I wish this was harder to understand." I GOTCHU

we get another shot where the yellow feed IS oriented correctly! like, in the shot where you see all the NINA screens at once, the yellow is wrong. but in the subsequent shots where El is looking woozy at individual screens, that version of the yellow is correct. that is what this camera should see.

and both are the same footage flipped horizontally.

well. the same footage except one of them is a wider angle where you see a lot more of the plinko board on the right but shh I'm too tired to think about that

anyway maybe this helps explain the moving bodies/blood locations, specifically the cases where I swear the sides of the room keep getting conflated.

the live massacre scene is unreliable because it's poor El's brain's mashup of the doctored / contradictory footage she's being shown. El doesn't know which way the RR really was. she doesn't remember it at all. so all footage is given equal weight, rather than her brain autocorrecting the wrong ones.

the RR is so hard to mentally map because it's a mind-numbingly-almost-symmetrical room, and we're frequently shown it via its mirror reflection, which confuses our perception further. El is canonically just as confused.

(I need to dive deeper on the details of this idea when I get more time. @aemiron-main iirc you're the lead investigator on the changing bodies/blood thing so you'd know better off the top of your head - would you say a room mirroring accounts for many more of the discrepancies? certainly not all)

finally, back to the center feed -

I believe this is correctly oriented (you can see a sliver of the mirror on the extreme left, which tracks with where the plinko game is situated, and Little El(?) is operating it right-handed which is consistent with Big El.)

BUT, don't worry, there's still a weird problem with this footage!

this is a close-up low shot behind El(?) which was not filmed from any of the corner-mounted RR surveillance cameras like the other feeds. it would've had to be filmed from one of those tripod ones.

and they do keep a tripod camera in that area of the RR, but it's visibly not where it would've had to be in order to film this footage which causes El to "remember" One in the plinko scene.

btw, why is this the only footage filmed in portrait mode? if it was landscape, we could have seen One sit next to her. as it is, he wouldn't be visible in it at all. maybe that's why.

so why are they flipping just that one feed?

well, since they showed right and wrong versions of the yellow feed, I suspect they sometimes flip the other feeds too. I just only caught them once. they only seldom give us glimpses of what's going on inside NINA.

is the center feed important because it's unique?

the lab hasn't made sure El is watching that one right-side-up. you can see in the reflection in her eye that she's watching the center screen landscape.

which means the one and only of seven screens El is actually watching right-side-up is this one:

why wasn't NINA designed like this, with all the screens the same way, if you just want the viewer to watch and comprehend all the footage?

because NINA isn't for remembering or comprehending.

having all the screens side by side and right-side-up makes it easy to compare footage and spot discrepancies between them (is that why Brenner is watching multiple screens of the same event?).

the NINA weird screen angles is exactly what stopped me from spotting the mirrored RR problem until right now, and I've been scrutinizing this, and I'm not drugged like El is. with a bunch of screens of boring, redundant-looking footage at random angles, your brain tends to just kinda be like "eh, I don't feel like mentally righting that, I'll take your word for it. seems legit."

what's on the center screen when El banishes One?

they don't want me to know. I wish I did.

every time we see El in NINA, her body breaks the water surface in such a way that prevents us seeing a reflection of the center screen. which apparently tends to display the only unique feed.

is it fair to call this footage-flipping onscreen proof of NINA being not merely a memory-viewing machine but a memory-altering / memory-implantation / machine? so, a brainwashing machine?

which has major implications for the Henry and Victor Creel contradictory memories situation, as long suspected by folks smarter than I.

so the "memories" we experience live with El are actually a meshing of either: A) real events and doctored / fabricated elements B) real events but from 4 different timelines C) por qué no los dos?

not sure whether this "creates" a new timeline in any way besides in El's mind, but even if it were just that, that is valuable enough - to make arguably the strongest superpowered person on the planet remember whatever events you want them to.

but just that doesn't explain the 4 cameras inside NINA, does it?

El using her current mind in past memories

don't forget we have a whole scene of Big El, while immersed in a NINA memory, conversing with current Brenner about the events she's experiencing being a memory and not real.

which means Big El is talking while floating in the tank, or else current Brenner wouldn't know to respond by microphone.

and if she can access her current mind/knowledge and apply that inside of past (real or fake) events.... doesn't that mean she can also use her current powers in past events?

YES. HERE SHE IS DOING IT:

El very very rarely bleeds from both nostrils. two-nostril jobs are very strenuous in relation to her current power level (killing the cat guards and closing the gate are the only other times I remember).

which indicates she's doing something HUGE even in relation to her newly HIGHER THAN EVER power level.

I just find it funny that she also bled from both nostrils in the exact event she was remembering while bleeding from both nostrils.......

also Brenner and Owens see her EEG spiking at that moment, which they've shown us repeatedly throughout the show reflects power use. she's DOING SOMETHING.

so.... Iots I need to chew on.

did the massacre go down wrong and the lab needs to trick El into remembering it differently, and using her current powers inside of the "memory" to somehow actually either change the past, or switch/unswitch timelines, or merge timelines, or something?

is there a timeline where One kicked Little El's ass, or killed her, and the lab needs her to go back and win in that one instead? did little El banish the wrong guy and the lab wants them switched? something like that?

there's something more time machiney going on with NINA even beyond just brainwashing, I swear.

[givehimthemedicine]

"they hurt you" / lab zapping and sa coding

so the sa-coding of the lab electrical punishments has been discussed but I just wanted to do a quick side post on the fact that we never actually see El get zapped.

but it's not like that's something they don't wanna show onscreen - we see it with One, Eight, Ten and Terry. but when it comes to El, we keep seeing it almost happen:

I'm about to post a big analysis about El lab csa subtext (how much is allegory and how much is subtext we can talk later) but I was like ok, they keep showing this NOT happening to El, so is that a strike against the idea? does this indicate that she lives under threat but hasn't actually had anything happen yet?

well, we know that various forms of zapping are very connected to the word "hurt"

then there's this. which like we've all said, can't just be about One getting zapped. it's far too weighty. besides, her knowing about the zapping isn't some Hail Mary revelation to pull out in this moment because they already talked about it earlier.

and El saying she and One are alike also tends to imply, but isn't a concrete statement, that she actually has been "hurt".

so has she? (I have a more support for it in my big post unfortunately. but right now I'm just addressing the hurt/electricity thing specifically)

yes she has, according to El's own dialogue in 2x7. when El says "I've killed," they provide the following two flashbacks:

2 quick observations.

I get that they're going for very snappy (ha) editing here, but they show only the neck-snap guy, and that was the guy who brandished the stun gun at her. they don't show wall-slam guy

in the brain melt clip, interestingly they DON'T show Connie. they do have time for a close up, but they choose MP dude instead.

and then we get this:

that clip of the orderlies dragging little El is the only one they put as support for "they hurt me."

she doesn't say they were going to - she says they did. so I am forced to conclude that El has, at some point prior to this lab scene, actually been zapped (so, "zapped").

but I have more questions.

if the orderly brandishing a stun gun constitutes "hurting" her, doesn't having a bunch of guns pointed at her count even more? El's so traumatized by seeing Connie shoot Benny, that she does that finger-gun thing with Mike - and yet that's not the greater thing to flash back to?

ah but now let me complicate it further - that clip is NOT of the orderlies she killed.

the killing happens in the cat version, seen in 1x3. the one they put here is from the 1x2 version, where El just gets locked in the cell and cries. it's not even the same two guys. the threat of a zap is still there because both have stun guns, but nothing really happens this time. they give her a rough shove into the cell, but that's it.

so the "hurt" being referred to is something which applies to even the non-stun-gun-brandishing orderlies. so beneath the surface, it's not about the actual guns / stun guns, or mere threat of harm, at all. this is something that has happened but which they declined to show.

idk, the fact they focused on the MP instead of Connie, even though she's the main antagonist of that scene; and on the stun-gun orderly instead of her actual first kill... like. did you just wanna lean in the more male/phallic direction both times? is that it?

because you already know how Choices are made with practically every stun gun / controller shot. and like. the imagery of stun guns hanging off the orderlies' belts is. rather.

hey. don't.

and just to round things off - idk what the current consensus is about the origin of those two phonecalls Joyce gets in s1 but there's just something about....

smth smth the thing about how Joyce's dialogue on the phone matches up with her conversation with Brenner in that one scene... ah yes this scene

idk man 😑🔫

[givehimthemedicine]

Big(ish) Analysis 4 (it's shorter than the rest I promise)

I have a huge question about gravity, mirrors, and El having seen the Upside Down prior to 1x1

you know how we have some fun in S4 playing with reversed gravity when the gang climbs through Chrissy's gate? I was like "haha, how would they have reconciled the gravity situation if the gang came out through one of the other gates in a wall?" and then I realized - none of the s4 gates were in walls.

Chrissy: ceiling. Fred: ground. Patrick: ground. Max: floor.

if Max had died in either of the places Vecna tried unsuccessfully to kill her, she still would've made another ceiling or floor gate.

Vecna only makes vertical gates. while all the gates we've ever seen previously - El's and the laser ones - were made in walls and therefore horizontal.

is that important? I think it's potentially world-endingly important.

there's sooo much mirror imagery associated with Henry, and it's no coincidence that gates act like mirrors.

imagine a mirror hanging on a wall, if you could step into it - you could walk in there just fine, the room would look backwards, but gravity would remain the same.

hang a mirror on the ceiling, though, and the room flips upside down, reversing gravity. ditto a mirror on the floor. exactly how Chrissy's gate and water gate work. I'll come back to this.

we're shown without a doubt that season 4's Upside Down is literally upside down.

but was The Upside Down upside down in 1-3?

we were given a couple of camera-rotating-upside-down shots, like when Hopper and Joyce start walking around in the UD. but there's much stronger evidence the 1-3 UD was not upside down:

when the gang climbs through the Chrissy gate in 4x7, the gravity reverse takes effect before they've even passed all the way through. Once Robin's center mass hits the midway point, she just falls the rest of the way.

compare to 1x4 and 2x2 when they show us lab guys stepping into the (horizontal) mother gate. if it was upside down in there, we should see both start to fall up before the membrane seals around them. one guy is even attached to a wire that should fly up to the top of the hole as soon as he gravity-flips in there. it never does:

we also saw El and Nancy go through demogorgon portals with no gravity reversal, and Will looking through the portal in his living room wall was rightside up.

unless someone can point out evidence that those rotating shots are more than symbolic due to the name, I'm pretty ready to say 1-3 UD was not depicted as literally gravity-reversed.

and if that's true, it leaves me with a humongous question:

if the Upside Down wasn't upside down until 1986, why did El describe it as upside down in 1983?

El wasn't the one who named The Upside Down, as I hear so often in fanon. all El said was "upside down." she wasn't saying it as a name. Mike ran with it as a name.

listen to the context of the boys' conversation before she says it. she's not interjecting "fellows, allow me to inform you that the place you're discussing is called The Upside Down™."

she just says "upside down" while they're listing adjectives Will had said (cold, dark, empty). her vocabulary is very limited and very literal. she's adding to the description of the place, not naming it.

if she knows what it looks like, it means she's seen it.

the only parade-raining-on answer I can think of is if El's remote viewing somehow shows her that stuff in the UD is flipped. but there was no gravity issue shown when she visited Will and Barb in the UD in the void, so I kinda feel like not? and she can't be referring to the '79 gate because she didn't see through it, and doesn't remember that anyway.

either by piggybacking, time fuckery wherein young El saw the future or past, or by the existence of another gate we don't know about... something... this kid has clearly seen more than we know.

maybe the gravity reverse is key to taking over other worlds

Vecna's 4 gates join, making one humongous X shaped gate into this gravity-reversed world. X gate will undoubtedly want to keep spreading like the mother gate did. what happens to two opposite-gravity worlds when the gate connecting them spreads so big that there's not enough separating them? at some point it will all just *CRUNCH*.

sounds like a great way for one dimension to take over another, no? to absorb it, like Henry absorbing his victims?

Brenner explains it pretty plainly (btw how does he already know this?🤨)

you know all those floating rocks in the yellow UD wasteland? gravity's screwy in there, apparently. it reminds me of the debris of one shattered planet orbiting another after a collision.

is the yellow UD a serial dimension-eater, and those rocks are the remains of whatever other other world it most recently absorbed?

what if that mirrored double-horizon red hellscape was something to do with those two worlds in the process of colliding? and then the yellow-floating-rocks wasteland is the result? we aren't given much idea of how much time passed in between.

utterly spitballing here, absolutely not a hill I'm dying on, but:

what if the wasteland/hellscape UD and UD Hawkins are in fact not the same place remodeled, but two (or three?) worlds or dimensions or whatever that both exist concurrently with RU Hawkins (in addition to however many more, theoretically).

if these are all separate places, theoretically that means you could open gates between any or all combinations of them.

what if you could have a gate open between UD and RU Hawkins (mother gate), AND a gate open between yellow UD and RU Hawkins (Rainbow gate), AND a gate open between yellow UD and UD Hawkins (theoretical gate through which the Mind Flayer got from yellow UD to UD Hawkins. I think it could do that; we saw it reach through the gate to try to get El)

and if all three such gates were open at the same time... could dimension 1 sort of reach through dimension 2 and grab dimension 3 and try to pull it through like a crochet hook?

more about gates and gravity

the 4 UD map must have to wrap around like an Escher drawing to connect gates sandwiching the RU into one single "map" - and I know this is fiction and to a certain degree we just have to play along.

but s4 clearly demonstrated that watergate and Chrissygate connected to the same "map," and so, presumably, did the others. if all these gates lead to the same place, does it make sense to have some gravity flip and others not?

here's all known gates, separated by "batches" to posit that once an initial gate is opened, all the other ones that open at the same time seem to obey the gravity established by it.

Rainbow (Sep 8, '79): horizontal (to be fair, I don't know wtf to call the gravity situation in there.) - Mother (Nov 6, '83 - Nov 5, '84): horizontal. demonstrably rightside up. Classroom (Nov 12, '83): horizontal. probably rightside up. Russia (June 28, '84): horizontal. probably rightside up. - Starcourt (June 28-July 4, '85): horizontal. probably rightside up. - Chrissy (Mar 21, '86): vertical. demonstrably upside down. Fred (whatever. you get it): vertical. probably upside down. Patrick: vertical. demonstrably upside down. Max: vertical. probably upside down.

we haven't been shown normal-gravity and reversed-gravity gates open at the same time.

is this evidence that gravity stays consistent with whichever way the initial gate establishes it? or, evidence of 1-3 UD Hawkins not being the same one as 4 at all? I know some of you think this already and I'd love to hear more evidence on that.

a final crackpot idea to wrap this up - help me on with my straitjacket -

pondering the idea of piggybacking, or time/memory fuckery enabling El to have seen an upside down Upside Down somehow before 1x1.

when have we seen an event in the past that, every other time it happened, created a vertical gate?

and we know gates leave scars. and I know this ceiling is all cracked by '86 just for disrepair reasons but.. (this shot conveniently doesn't show us the exact spot where Virginia died, or "died", but you see my idea)

and you know how gravity is also screwy in the mind lair version of the Creel house, looking like it's in the process of exploding? almost like a mind-gate is spreading and destroying it outwards. I wonder what the origin point could be?

anyway the part of this post I'm really interested in is the El part, so please talk to me about that. the end!