#had to remake these twice and they still look janky

[t4yce]

MARINA SUMMERS • drag race uk vs the world 2.05 when i glow up runway

[silver-wield]

FF7R: What if?

I’m back with more analysis!

So, I caught a youtube theory that said because the whispers are gone now, every single event they interferred in is retconned. I was gonna be like, that sounds interesting, but then they went off on this huge tangeant that ended in – you guessed it – Cloud dying 😒

Even though it literally contradicted their own evidence they'd stated earlier in the vid.

Sephiroth says he won't let Cloud die, but then we've got Cloud having seven seconds to make a choice and sacrifice himself for the greater good. Even though Sephiroth literally said he won't let Cloud die. This is why I don't listen to theory vids where they have people live or die because it ignores canon and the devs have said canon still counts, so until we get evidence otherwise I'm gonna go ahead and say Cloud lives and please stop trying to FF15 him because that is the absolute suckiest ending for a guy who absolutely has earned and deserves his best ending – which is ALIVE. He deserves to be alive!

(Not to mention the other theories starting that Sephiroth is the good guy now...like seriously? Stuff like this makes me want to cry. Sephiroth isn't good and Cloud doesn't deserve to die. How tf is this FF7? This is the worst kind of fan fiction trash and it belongs in a dumpster fire!)

And that's my tangeant lol

So, back to the whispers and the what if. If their influence is now undone and everything they interfered in is gone I wondered what that meant. So, Imma gonna follow the ones we know about and see what conclusion we get. I've got a chart of each appearance they make in Remake, so these are the actual events they interfered in.

Let's mosey!

Ok, spoiler warning for ppl who haven’t played – do I still need to do this? Eh ok, (I tag FF7R spoilers as final fantasy 7 remake spoilers) and it’s gonna be huge lol.

Also, this is one person’s interpretation of the scene, so if you disagree that’s cool and we’ll agree to disagree.

You’re also gonna have to excuse the janky quality on some of the screens, I’m grabbing them from Youtube and it’s frustrating af trying to get the exact moment I want.

Please check my master post to see if I've already covered your question, thanx

Recap time!

Chapter 2 is the first time we see the whispers and their purpose here is to keep Aerith from leaving the area before Cloud arrives – because they meet in the OG – they then later chase her away – also OG – leaving him to fight the security forces alone.

So, we can't actually see them yet, but their purpose at this point is to keep Aerith from leaving the area so she can have the whole flower conversation with Cloud.

What if?

If Aerith wasn't forced to remain there, then she'd have evacuated along with other residents and gone back to sector 5. She'd never meet Cloud, never agree to go back to Shinra and the story of FF7 wouldn't happen.

Aerith is about to stay and fight alongside Cloud until a whisper chases her away, allowing her to deliver her OG line of, “Nice meeting you.”

What if?

If Aerith stayed she'd have remained with Cloud until the station, where he'd been forced to get her onto the train with Avalanche. She'd have met them and Tifa much sooner, possibly joined their cause and potentially died in the pillar if she wasn't able to convince Tifa she could go along to Don Corneo's.

The other option is Cloud would've taken her back to sector 5 once they got to sector 7 and they'd have avoided the rooftop walk, he'd have gone back to sector 7 because that's where he lives and they wouldn't have met again.

Chapter 3 is their next appearance after Cloud gets a futuristic flash of the plate collapse. They appear to distract him and prevent him from questioning what he just saw.

What if?

Cloud could bring up the plate's structural integrity around Avalanche or the neighbourhood watch. They could increase patrols around that area and get a jump on Shinra's attempt to collapse it. The increased security could mean they're successful in stopping the plate from falling.

(Don't tell Cloud this, he'll drown in guilt forever lol)

Still in Chapter 3, during the scene at Seventh Heaven where Cloud isn't included in the next reactor mission. An intangible whisper floats near the ceiling, observing events.

What if?

Since this relates to Cloud being part of the reactor 5 mission, his not going would be catastrophic for those who went instead. Why? I'll get to that in a sec.

Near the end of Chapter 4, whispers appear in Cloud's room while he sleeps. Their purpose is to ensure Cloud remains asleep(?) while they incapacitate Jessie (see conclusion for my theory).

What if?

Well, they failed, since Cloud woke up anyway, but if he'd slept through the fighting then Jessie would still be injured and he'd be on for the mission.

So, we're at the reason for the whispers last two appearances. With Cloud off the reactor 5 mission, Jessie, Barret and Biggs are the go to team. That's not what's meant to happen.

What if?

Oh, I like this one. This one has a huge impact.

Jessie goes on the mission with Barret, leaving Tifa and Cloud behind. Biggs is waiting over by the reactor the same as before.

While on the train, the security measures activate the same as before. Since Cloud was the one who suggested jumping from the train, these two won't think of it. They'll fight the bots off until they arrive at the station where they're either captured by security forces or killed on the spot.

If by some chance one of them realises they need to get off right away and they jump the same as our triple A trio did, they'd likely die during the crab warden battle.

If by some miracle they get past all of that and complete the lighting the path section to get the cargo platform moving and make it into the reactor, they're still caught by Shinra and then executed because only Cloud knows how to dispose of the Air Buster's components.

So, to put it in simple terms: they die.

Neat huh?

The very end of Chapter 7 where Cloud is falling from the scaffold into sector 5's church (what religion is this church for anyway?). Whispers appear to slow his fall and keep him alive.

What if?

He dead lol

What else should I say? He fell 300m and he's not invincible.

In the sector 5 chuch after the Reno fight, Cloud is about to kill Reno and whispers appear to stop him and drag him and Aerith away.

What if?

Another fun one.

Reno dies, the security forces either die or retreat from Cloud. If Aerith isn't traumatised by witnessing a murder right in front of her, she and Cloud walk out of the church and he takes her home, instead of the detour over the rooftops and through the scrapyard (because they'd have taken less time walking along the main road and arrived well before Rude got there in the helicopter).

Rude would've gone to the church when Reno didn't answer, found him dead, come after Cloud for revenge, been killed or badly injured and Cloud would've fixed his reputation around that sector as a badass murderer who you don't mess with.

Elmyra would've sent him on his way because she doesn't want her baby hanging out with a killer and Cloud would've arrived back in sector 7 well before Tifa had the idea to go to Don Corneo. He either would've gone with her or they'd have stormed the mansion instead of the route that actually happened. They may have still been dropped into the sewers, but with a day in hand before the operation, would've arrived back in sector 7 before Shinra arrived and saved the pillar.

Whispers cover the church and block specific exits, leaving the route to the roof open. When Aerith falls (twice) they save her.

What if?

Cloud would take a different exit besides the roof, which would lead to a similar result as above where he avoids Rude at the station and has more time to get home instead of being forced to stay overnight because “it's getting late”. He'd help Avalanche save the plate and wouldn't have to let Tifa go to Don Corneo alone.

For Aerith, the whispers saving her mean she's uninjured and can cross the rooftops. The whispers also prevent Reno from taking her back to Shinra by force.

We don't see the whispers again until all the way over in chapter 12, where they appear to block Cloud, Tifa and Aerith from reaching the pillar.

What if?

Since Cloud is the only one to go up the pillar to start, we'd see him arrive in time to save Wedge and Biggs, then move up with them to save Jessie before reaching Barret.

If we include the previous what if with Reno being killed and Rude injured then the person piloting the helicopter won't know who Cloud is and won't be as vindictive in attacking him. This means the pipes won't fall from the platform and Tifa won't go up there.

Tifa and Aerith would go to 7th heaven to get Marlene and evacuate the sector, Tseng would still appear to threaten Aerith, but Tifa may well be strong enough to deal with him On the other hand, she might not and wind up dead.

If we discount the chapter 8 what if and Reno and Rude are fine, he and Rude have Cloud, Biggs and Wedge pinned down with no solution in sight until Tifa meets up with them (the pipes would still fall here). They'd move on to meet up with Jessie and Barret as a large group, where they'd still save the plate from falling and likely kill Reno and Rude with their larger number party.

Chapter 12, Whispers surround Rude as he tosses Tifa aside and pushes the plate separation button.

What if?

Cloud or Barret would've killed Rude and stopped the plate separating.

Chapter 12, Whispers surround Wedge, keeping him in place until a piece of the plate drops on him.

What if?

Wedge would escape with his cat out of sector 7 and our triple A team wouldn't find Deepground later on. (Kinda odd, seeing how they then drag Cloud away from discovering more about his past once they're there, but it looks like the whispers don't consider their own actions aside from ensuring the current OG canon event takes place. Wedge needed to die, so they dropped shit on him.)

Chapter 13, Whispers appear during Deepground when Cloud is about to remember the experiments carried out on him.

What if?

Cloud would remember his past much sooner, likely have a breakdown right then and there, which makes him incapable of rescuing Aerith. Tifa wouldn't have the benefit of the lifestream to deep dive into his subconscious and help him, so it would likely take a lot longer for him to repair his fractured psyche. Aerith would be experimented on by Hojo, forcibly impregnated and likely killed.

After their big interference in chapters 12 and 13, we don't see the whispers again until Chapter 16, where they appear to drag Hojo away before he can spill the beans to Cloud.

What if?

Cloud is told of his fake persona and recalls the true events of what happened to him. He likely has a mental breakdown, making him useless for the rest of the escape from the lab. The team gets caught and probably executed as an example of what happens to those who go against Shinra.

Aerith is recaptured and the experiments on her continue.

Chapter 17 and whispers surround Aerith, trying to prevent her revealing the truth about who their real enemy is and other events to come.

What if?

Aerith would reveal all about Sephiroth, his role in things and possibly other details that only she knows because she's got some weird meta!Aerith thing happening this time around. She'd be a far less mysterious character and the team would know exactly what they're facing instead of being left in the dark.

At the end of chapter 17, Sephiroth stabs Barret and kills him. Whispers immediately appear to bring him back to life.

What if?

Well, Barret's dead. That means there's no one to help Aerith and Red in the mech battle as they're escaping, meaning they'll either die or be recaptured.

If they escape still and get out of Midgar, not having Barret in the team means the events in Corel change and the possibility of them not getting out or losing the battle to Dyne becomes a possibility. If they're stuck in Corel prison forever, then they're stuck forever.

If they manage to escape, there's still a huge Barret shaped hole in the team formation and they're in trouble anytime they need a long range fighter, and while Barret does fly off the handle whenever he's ranting about something, he's also got a huge heart and offers a perspective that's different to the others. He holds Cloud and Tifa together when they lose focus and is pretty much the team dad. Without him around they're not as strong emotionally or morally.

Still chapter 17 and the whispers surround Cloud as he tries to go after what he thinks is Sephiroth, but is actually a cloaked figure carrying Jenova away.

What if?

I'm suspicious about the identity of #2 here. On the one hand, stopping him from taking Jenova away means she returns to her tank and the threat from her is gone, but on the other hand, what if the reason why they were stopping Cloud is because he knows #2?

In Crisis Core we learn that Cloud was kept in the #2 tank beside Zack, but he never got a number tattoed on his arm. Because of his S cells he won't degrade and turn into a remnant like the others, but (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) Zack has G cells and would degrade eventually. It's all well and good saying he died, but what if he didn't? Before the crisp packet I mean. What if his body was collected by Hojo, had further experiments done and given a tattoo, only because he doesn't give a fuck which one of them was in which tank, he tattoos the wrong number on Zack and so he turns into #2.

It seems far too simple the whispers appeared to stop Cloud from getting to Jenova when that's a remnant that with a number that has potential revelations that would fuck Cloud all the way up.

So, he stops the remnant, learns their identity and freaks tf out and becomes useless for the rest of the escape. They're likely captured by Rufus and executed. The world ends because no one can stop Sephiroth.

The whispers appear to stop Wedge and push him out of a window, restoring canon with his death.

What if?

Does anyone think it's strange they're so insistent that Wedge dies? Why? They've tried to kill him 3 times and he's only a minor character and his being alive wouldn't affect anything.

Unless it does.

Cait Sith theory anyone? If Wedge is somehow transferred into the moogle body that Cait Sith uses then him being dead would be very important because his consciousness would be needed to pilot the moogle. We've got a lot of cat references with Wedge and he's the kind of short, squat shape the moogle is, not to mention he's desperate to be relevant to everyone. So, maybe he doesn't talk when he's the moogle, but he's self aware enough that he wants to do his part for everyone. We only find out after he dies again that it's actually him. Cue tears from Barret.

Whispers cover the Shinra building, causing a delay in our heroes departure when they stop to look at it.

What if?

Well, there'd be no road battle and everyone would get out of town a lot sooner. Maybe the whispers did just wanna see a fight.

Honestly, this one stumps me. There's so many of them. It's like a miniature version of when they cover Midgar. So, what's happening inside the Shinra building that needs them to do this much to contain it? You gotta remember, we're not always getting all the info. There's other things happening besides with Cloud and the gang.

Hojo's inside, so is Rufus and the Turks. They're obviously trying to prevent a change or delay it enough that things continue regardless, but hiding the team from Rufus who has to send troops after them doesn't seem right. I'm betting something else happened here.

The whispers appear to hold up the collapsing roadway so our heroes escape.

What if?

Well, they dead, so this one's simple lol

The whispers in the past cover Midgar.

What if?

Now, if this is an all time consequential event. This one matters. Which makes me question what's happening in the Shinra building that matters.

The glittering result happens only in Zack's scenes and the lingering glitter is then seen in the present, which indicates some sort of ripple effect going out from that point in time.  So, let's track it.

Let's assume that Zack reaching Midgar is what's being prevented here and now he's gonna make it alive. Zack's death is the first jolt that brings Cloud back to himself enough to get to the city, where he then finds Tifa. If this doesn't happen because Zack is caring for Cloud, then he'll end up in sector 5 instead and still very sick. His recovery will be a lot slower and it'll be Zack who goes about with Aerith. Cloud might not recover at all by the end of the game since it's Tifa calling to him that wakes him up.

Avalanche would likely fail the first bombing mission, since they needed Cloud's expertise to get in and out. They might die in the attempt.

There's no plate fall because Avalanche failed and Shinra needed them to blame for it.

Aerith has no reason to go with the Turks and there's no rescue afterwards.

Sephiroth would still retrieve Jenova, but there'd be no one to chase after him because Zack wouldn't be inside the Shinra building because Aerith wouldn't.

Sephiroth would still need a reunion puppet to get the black materia though, so there might be several attempts before he succeeds, but I believe he would eventually even without Cloud. Meteor would be summoned and the world would end.

And that's why Zack has to die.

Whispers linger around several grunt soldiers as Zack prepares to fight.

What if?

Just confirming what I said above about Zack being a necessary key part in the machine that needs to be taken out if things are gonna continue along the ideal timeline where the planet doesn't end in a fiery ball of death and destruction.

Conclusion.

I'm not gonna add the giant whisper battle because that's obvious, but there's definitely some inconsistences happening with what the planet deems important. There's huge events that actually make a difference when you track them and then there's some that make you go “wtaf?”

Most of the whispers interfering is to keep people alive or ensure continuity. They don't get in the way otherwise.

Except one time.

Chapter 4, where you even hear a voice ??? saying to sleep and dream sweet dreams. That doesn't seem right.

I mean, it sounds like Sephiroth and if I was gonna make a reach, the whole dream imagery has been very clearly linked to Aerith in Remake, so is he saying to remain within the dream so that reality can't happen? If Sephiroth wanted to succeed he'd prefer Cloud to avoid reality right? He told him to run away, to live, to leave, to avoid things. He wants Cloud to choose not to fight.

He's a bad guy (no redemption bullshit please), but his motives are much more complicated this time round. He's been very closely linked with Aerith a few times. He touches her. She's the only person beside Cloud he touches. Sure, it's a vision, but the devs still had it happen. And Sephiroth's voice is heard coming from Aerith's direction at the end of the game.

It's obvious this Sephiroth isn't the same as the OG one, but how much is he aware of? I don't believe the whole time travel theory. I do believe the meta!theory, because Sephiroth could get info from the lifestream the same way Aerith did at the start when she's staring at the mako coming out of the pipe. He could still be OG Sephiroth using what he learned during his little dip to manipulate events in his favour. There doesn't have to be a need for time travel to do this. Aerith's changing stuff without being a time traveller ffs. People need to stop going “well it's Nomura” and acting like anything ott is a go.

What I'm getting at is people need to stop looking at this from a mile long distance and screaming time travel because that's all games and films have done lately and look at it using the actual evidence we've got in the game. What we got is the whispers had clear motives for what they did, except one time when a voice was heard. Yall need to look at this shit the devs are dropping in front of your noses because this is where the plot is happening.